"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Dolato]

I want to get some opinions from the group on a recent discovery.

Remember I asked you guys recently if I should disclose to my CL Teacher SB if I was married? There was a slight majority of maintaining the status quo. I ended up splitting the difference. I began to describe certain things in the plural form, to basically give her a hint that I had some kind of family but still keeping it vague. She hasn't acted any differently so far, so that's good.

Even knowing what you now know, I'd keep things the way it is. I'm sure she either knows already or has an idea, but no need to put it out there plainly. If some moral dilemma about cheating on her man caused her to go silent at times, being faced with the blunt truth that you're married may have similar results.

I think if you weigh the pros / cons of telling her, the cons will weigh heavier than the pros.

[John G Smith]

I want to get some opinions from the group on a recent discovery.

Remember I asked you guys recently if I should disclose to my CL Teacher SB if I was married? There was a slight majority of maintaining the status quo. I ended up splitting the difference. I began to describe certain things in the plural form, to basically give her a hint that I had some kind of family but still keeping it vague. She hasn't acted any differently so far, so that's good.

However while I was doing a routine check of FB profiles, hers looked mostly the same but I ran a search of "Photos of (Sugar Baby) by Friends" (BTW, Facebook with their recent changes has made Internet stalking too easy it's scary) and some new pictures came up. I found a picture with my SB in a profile picture with a guy cozy-ed up together. My SB's FB page has no pictures and no mentions of this guy (which is why I never bothered to check him) but I decided to do a deep dig through this guy's profile and I started to find more and more pictures of them together or posts referencing her. Eventually I found out they've been together for at least a year. For the first few minutes of discovering this, I was oddly jealous, LOL. But then I was pretty happy about it. She's attached so it means she's not going to do anything overly crazy / psycho and probably won't get clingy. It also explains why she's been okay with doing things discretely and explains the periods where she dropped out of communication for a bit. She was probably having a moral dilemma. But she has kept seeing me for over 5 months, almost half their relationship so I'm giving her something he isn't. Plus he lives over a hour away, so I'm not going to bump into him.

Now the question, since I now know she has a boyfriend, is it safer to tell her I'm married without messing things up? She's messing around on her man, so I can't see her having a major moral outrage that I'm cheating on my SO with her. Then again women are weird and some have issues with being perceived as "breaking up" a marriage. I doubt she's one of them though. Then again, we have a good thing going and maybe vague is good. It's just I'm not used to hiding that I'm married from Long-Term SBs so that's why I'm uncomfortable with it.

To ensure my post contains at least some useful information when you're doing a FB background check, use the various tools to search the friends of your target. It's often the friends who are the weak point in the privacy shield. Conversely, you need to keep this in mind with your personal info and you should always pay attention to the alerts when someone tags you. Even if you lockdown your own timeline / profile, if someone has tagged you in a bunch of photos then your face / name will show up in a search. I always remove tags anytime someone tries to tag me and I keep a very low almost non-existent FB presence. You don't want to give a rogue SB a direct line to your SO if they know your real name, which can happen if you're tagged in family or group photos. Facebook just makes it too easy to connect the dots.

[John G Smith]

Or for those of us on the budget plan, just go for the CIM, it's free and has less downtime. LOL.

Pulling out is almost statistically identical to using condoms in terms of pregnancy prevention. It's basically trigger happy teenagers that pulling out isn't recommended because they haven't developed the proper control yet.

STDs weigh heavier on my mind than pregnancy scares when it comes to BB. Only one SB did I ever come inside and I knew she was on the pill. Otherwise I just pull out regardless, especially with the younger girls. I just don't trust them to take pills regularly because they don't have much of a track record. But a 30 year-old with no or just one kid, then I know she's able to take birth control regularly.

I wasn't around in the 70's, but maybe some of you can enlighten me, doesn't it feel like we're harkening back to the 60/70's era of casual sex? With HIV no longer being a death sentence anymore, it definitely feels like more guys and girls are being more accepting again of casual BB sex. This seems to be backed up by statistics that say sexual risk taking decreased significantly in the 1980's and early 1990's, but recently has increased. Viral STDs is still decreasing but bacterial STDs have increased recently. It's as if we've reverted back to the 70's.

I applaud my brothers here who are able to have the discipline to put a cap on every time. I don't have the same discipline. I have ED issues with condoms, so I often partake of BB if it's on the table. Ideally I would exchange test results and everything first, but unfortunately I've learned the Sugar Bowl is a fast paced game. While you're waiting around for test results the SB could have already moved on. So it's great if both parties have test results ready to go (BTW then there's the issue of revealing your real identity), but if the girl doesn't have it, then it can often be a pain to have her get results. And if she has to make an extra effort to get tested, then you run the risk of adding a negotiation point with her demanding an increase in the allowance for testing and BB play. So initially I tried to do BB the safe and proper way, but it just became a huge hassle. So now I just do the very unscientific method of performing a visual and odor hygienic test. And with the younger girls, a 20-year old usually only has had so many boyfriends / sex partners. And I never BB a UTR or Pro.

We all have our own accepted levels of risk.

[JZLizard]

v.as.e.c.t.o.m.y. ?

Or for those of us on the budget plan, just go for the CIM, it's free and has less downtime. LOL.

Honestly the one time I had the pregnancy scare it was just because I was too lazy to pull out. I don't make that mistake anymore. As the Diceman used to say just leave them sticky broke and confused. Okay maybe just sticky and confused then. LOL.

[Rouleur]

v.as.e.c.t.o.m.y. ?

I had a vasectomy about 3 months before I discovered my then Wife's year long affair. She pushed for it so we could be "more free" Looking back, I think it was more to do with not having any more children with any future "wife" to compete for the Child support payments I make for our 3 Daughters.

My one successful SD / SB meeting was bb and no worries about pregnancy. I have not fully resolved my long term plan for protection against stds, however wearing a condom is the best method of creating ED I know. I'm of the mind to send my Ex a thank you card.

[HollywoodGuy]

and last, no one answered my question early about handling bare back sex and the potential for knocking one of these girls up. Bare back sex is natural and the way it should be and in the sb world, it's a risk i am willing to assume with most girls i have met. However, how do you assure she won't get knocked up? You are kidding yourself if you do not think some of these girls would jump up and down singing "jackpot" if she became pregnant thinking we are millionaires.

v.as.e.c.t.o.m.y. ?

[JZLizard]

We all, including them, (SB) got something to hide. That much I've learned early on. The biggest threat to discretion is a disgruntled SB. Especially if you have an SO, or employment where such a hobby could be catastrophic. I'm new to this, but through phone numbers, emails, and stuff they casually tell me during M&G I am able to then quickly and easily obtain info on who they are. So far, the youngest two were married, one was to a truck driver and she was a SB while he was away. I found his and her facebook, even the company he was driving with and his current routes plastered on his facebook. Now I would NEVER, EVER use such knowledge unless it became absolutely necessary to protect my own discretion in this hobby. If any of these girls were to threaten to blackmail me etc, the info comes out and would be used to deter their aggression.

In the case of the type of "pseudo-SB" (in the sense that there's not necessarily direct payment) I'm referring to, they had nothing to hide (nor did I) beyond what we would keep hidden on a normal dating site, because neither of us were doing anything outside of the normal dating ritual. Granted at the time I did this, I was not in a relationship so I was free to date, and the same was true of them (that's why I said if you're married, be careful with Facebook and also don't expect it to be a good place to find other girls in a committed relationship). Me personally I'm a bit secretive even with the photos I'm willing to post publically on a dating site, but that's partially for professional reasons and also because I don't want some other wanker stealing my photos or just any unauthorized use of them. But I've met SBs on the SD sites that use their first name in their profile, and put enough info in their profile that I was able to find them on Facebook in a matter of seconds based solely on their profile. In a few cases I've told them they might want to anonymize their public photos a little bit and wait until they know someone better to reveal their face so clearly, and on more than one occasion they've told me they aren't doing anything wrong why should they care if someone sees them because they've got nothing to hide? It's just a difference of perspective and some of them see their search for an SD as being so far from pro sex work that its nothing shameful.

I was recently looking at one of my friend's FB photos. There was a link to one of his daughter's friends. On her FB account, she posted pictures of herself doing various things, including one set of photos where she showed herself with her SD, describing him as "her expense account" and showing off all the vacation photos from the trips they'd taken! She is about 21, he is like 50 with a creepy grin on his face in the photos. This is where all her friends and parents can see. She's bragging about it. A SD is like a status symbol to some of these women, and their own moms tell them they should try to snag one in some cases.

It actually makes for more relaxing time when each of you have mutually destructive info on each other.

Another thing I do is save all communication and texts we share. I want this as evidence in the vent she claims I was some abuser or something. I am genuinely a nice guy and have never had this sort of issue, but hell have no furry like a woman scorned. So after dates, I entice them indirectly for a summary. Usually a text telling them about the date and what a wonderful time I had etc. They usually follow suit.

And last, no one answered my question early about handling bare back sex and the potential for knocking one of these girls up. How do you assure if they tell you they are on the pill, or fixed, it's true?

I have never went bare back in the P4 P world, always safe, but this is different. And I am tested and have no STD's, never have. I know there is still some risk, but no more then taking home a girl from the club. Bare back sex is natural and the way it should be and in the SB world, it's a risk I am willing to assume with most girls I have met. However, how do you assure she won't get knocked up? You are kidding yourself if you do not think some of these girls would jump up and down singing "jackpot" if she became pregnant thinking we are millionaires.

I'm all for keeping good books on the girls, and having some defense leverage under the table out of sight but ready to go if they should ever get nasty. However I will say you don't have to be an SD to have a nasty pregnancy scare. I had a would-be SB once rake me over the coals with the pregnancy scare, and her motives had nothing to do with money since she refused to accept any cash from me. She was doing it strictly to be vengeful and to get a reaction out of me after I left the relationship. She knew I had very little money at the time -- she just wanted the power of making me squirm as payback for not getting things her way.

[Dsprdo]

And last, no one answered my question early about handling bare back sex and the potential for knocking one of these girls up. How do you assure if they tell you they are on the pill, or fixed, it's true?

I have never went bare back in the P4 P world, always safe, but this is different. And I am tested and have no STD's, never have. I know there is still some risk, but no more then taking home a girl from the club. Bare back sex is natural and the way it should be and in the SB world, it's a risk I am willing to assume with most girls I have met. However, how do you assure she won't get knocked up? You are kidding yourself if you do not think some of these girls would jump up and down singing "jackpot" if she became pregnant thinking we are millionaires.

If you go back a ways you will see some discussion of someone on here who faced exactly that situation. Short answer is if you're not fixed and you go au naturel, you are risking 18 years of installment payments. BB is great, but I (almost) always cover it up. Sometimes you just lose your head, like you did, but it is not a good long term policy.

[DirtyDeeds38]

In my civy dating travels, I occasionally found myself playing an SD role, yet paying in forms of sugar that were non-monetary. For example, sometimes I would find someone 15-20 years younger who I identified as someone who was in school or freshly out of school, aspiring to enter the same industry that I work in (and have been successful in). This can be a hugely valuable set of cards to play in your favor if you can find a struggling college student or grad who sees your industry experience as valuable and can help her find a way to get her foot in the door. College has conditioned her to seek mentors, after all. And if you don't know already, single heterosexual college professors have more opportunity for pussy than a rock star in the 80's did (they might have to dodge campus policy about student dating and so forth, and social media gossip probably makes it harder these days, but the opportunity is there and my point is that teaching a female anything gets her panties wet).

But you don't have to be a professor, just experienced in your field (and all this assumes you're in a field that you can find young females trying to break into the business. If you own a retail store that sells tobacco & accessories or exotic pets you might need to search a little harder to find college grads that are looking for your specific knowledge). But let's say for example you're a doctor or otherwise work in healthcare. Do you know it's very easy to search Facebook for females in nursing school in a given city? This of course does not mean you should send form letters to all of them offering $$ for CIM (LOL). But if you see someone who seems like the open minded type, who knows what making contact with her might turn into? (Yes a doctor or anyone with a professional reputation at stake will want to be careful about going around hitting on young girls on FB, so of course use your judgment, but also remember much stranger things have happened on FB). Also if you need to protect your identity, be careful on FB (see other recent posts about this).

Most of my past experiences of these unwitting SBs started with contact from basic dating websites (POF, match etc), but FB popularity is really widespread now days so that is just one more vehicle. A lot of girls will tell you what field they aspire to work in right in their profile, whether its a dating or SD site.

This may sound like a longshot or something that only happens once in a lifetime, but I've been able to find these "pseudo SBs" on more than one occasion and benefitted greatly for it. Just remember that your work experience is probably very attractive to someone out there, its just a matter of finding her.

We all, including them, (SB) got something to hide. That much I've learned early on. The biggest threat to discretion is a disgruntled SB. Especially if you have an SO, or employment where such a hobby could be catastrophic. I'm new to this, but through phone numbers, emails, and stuff they casually tell me during M&G I am able to then quickly and easily obtain info on who they are. So far, the youngest two were married, one was to a truck driver and she was a SB while he was away. I found his and her facebook, even the company he was driving with and his current routes plastered on his facebook. Now I would NEVER, EVER use such knowledge unless it became absolutely necessary to protect my own discretion in this hobby. If any of these girls were to threaten to blackmail me etc, the info comes out and would be used to deter their aggression.

It actually makes for more relaxing time when each of you have mutually destructive info on each other.

Another thing I do is save all communication and texts we share. I want this as evidence in the vent she claims I was some abuser or something. I am genuinely a nice guy and have never had this sort of issue, but hell have no furry like a woman scorned. So after dates, I entice them indirectly for a summary. Usually a text telling them about the date and what a wonderful time I had etc. They usually follow suit.

And last, no one answered my question early about handling bare back sex and the potential for knocking one of these girls up. How do you assure if they tell you they are on the pill, or fixed, it's true?

I have never went bare back in the P4 P world, always safe, but this is different. And I am tested and have no STD's, never have. I know there is still some risk, but no more then taking home a girl from the club. Bare back sex is natural and the way it should be and in the SB world, it's a risk I am willing to assume with most girls I have met. However, how do you assure she won't get knocked up? You are kidding yourself if you do not think some of these girls would jump up and down singing "jackpot" if she became pregnant thinking we are millionaires.

[JZLizard]

In my civy dating travels, I occasionally found myself playing an SD role, yet paying in forms of sugar that were non-monetary. For example, sometimes I would find someone 15-20 years younger who I identified as someone who was in school or freshly out of school, aspiring to enter the same industry that I work in (and have been successful in). This can be a hugely valuable set of cards to play in your favor if you can find a struggling college student or grad who sees your industry experience as valuable and can help her find a way to get her foot in the door. College has conditioned her to seek mentors, after all. And if you don't know already, single heterosexual college professors have more opportunity for pussy than a rock star in the 80's did (they might have to dodge campus policy about student dating and so forth, and social media gossip probably makes it harder these days, but the opportunity is there and my point is that teaching a female anything gets her panties wet).

But you don't have to be a professor, just experienced in your field (and all this assumes you're in a field that you can find young females trying to break into the business. If you own a retail store that sells tobacco & accessories or exotic pets you might need to search a little harder to find college grads that are looking for your specific knowledge). But let's say for example you're a doctor or otherwise work in healthcare. Do you know it's very easy to search Facebook for females in nursing school in a given city? This of course does not mean you should send form letters to all of them offering $$ for CIM (LOL). But if you see someone who seems like the open minded type, who knows what making contact with her might turn into? (Yes a doctor or anyone with a professional reputation at stake will want to be careful about going around hitting on young girls on FB, so of course use your judgment, but also remember much stranger things have happened on FB). Also if you need to protect your identity, be careful on FB (see other recent posts about this).

Most of my past experiences of these unwitting SBs started with contact from basic dating websites (POF, match etc), but FB popularity is really widespread now days so that is just one more vehicle. A lot of girls will tell you what field they aspire to work in right in their profile, whether its a dating or SD site.

This may sound like a longshot or something that only happens once in a lifetime, but I've been able to find these "pseudo SBs" on more than one occasion and benefitted greatly for it. Just remember that your work experience is probably very attractive to someone out there, its just a matter of finding her.

[JZLizard]

I'll a few things you can do on your computer:

All good advice, and since there's a lot of good information out there for learning about anonymization / security, I'll just leave it with the general idea that if anything seems to be providing a convenience, it should be immediately suspect. As GW said, anything that remembers you or provides you the convenience of not having to log in each time is your enemy. Also look up the google pref I D and understand what that means if you don't already, as it's a specific cookie value that you will want to know about.

Wiping your cookies and history and so forth is a good practice anyway. However, once a fake profile has been linked to a real profile, the association exists somewhere on a server that you won't be able to wipe (perhaps ever), so try to approach the goal of anonymity with the assumption that you may not get a second chance. Sounds a little tin-foil-hat I know, but those with an SO to lose, particularly married guys that could get hosed financially as well as emotionally, can benefit from being a little paranoia here.

[Member #5055]

I'll a few things you can do on your computer:

1. First, if possible, have different logins on your computer for you and anybody else who uses it.

2. Whatever browser you use, set it up so it remembers NOTHING, suggests NOTHING. IE can also be told to erase the entire temporary files area upon exit.

3. Double check every now and again that all cookies and history are deleted.

4. DO NOT use a Google+ account. If you have one. Delete it.

5. Do NOT use FB as logins to other systems. Keep them separate.

6. Whenever possible, do NOT give them your phone number as extra password "security".

In other words, keep your SD logins for ANYTHING separate. It also does no harm to every now and again to de-install and re-install your browser from scratch.

GW.

Since you mentioned alternative FB profile, I have to mention this in case you or someone reading has an SO and needs strict anonymity: *be careful* with FB profiles. Unless you use a completely different computer to log into each FB profile, you have to be very, very careful to manage privacy. There have been times I've been able to easily find someone's real FB profile by searching on their fake name -- either FB or Google is indexing them and associating them with each other behind the scenes as matching the same person. Keep in mind that both FB and Google make their living by tracking you, and they've got vast fleets of people who are experts in finding ways to track you even when you think they aren't. This is particularly true if you use anything Google (Chrome as a browser, Android as a phone, Chromebook as a laptop) etc.

[JZLizard]

Thanks for the tip! Will using a TOR browser help defeat this?

Probably in most cases yes, but it's important that whatever your strategy is for using it aligns to your purpose for using it and that you have a good grasp on both (and good habits to keep them in tact). TOR is meant for a higher level of anonymity such as dodging the NSA, and to be honest a cheating SD really has no more to fear from the likes of NSA than anyone else. I personally don't do anything illegal, period, and I assume the NSA is watching me at all times. Who cares in my case. But I don't want anyone linking me to FB in any way and I don't want to deal with avoidance tactics. Not married but have a GF I want to keep, so I simply do not maintain a real FB profile. Actually that's not the only reason but it helps a great deal. My fake FB profile (s) I use only to gather intel on others, I never post.

What you don't want in this case is simply for an SB to be able to figure out your real FB profile from your fake one, and in some ways maybe TOR is overkill for that, and at the same time a bit of diligence can give you reasonable peace of mind.

[Makethescoop]

Since you mentioned alternative FB profile, I have to mention this in case you or someone reading has an SO and needs strict anonymity: *be careful* with FB profiles. Unless you use a completely different computer to log into each FB profile, you have to be very, very careful to manage privacy. There have been times I've been able to easily find someone's real FB profile by searching on their fake name -- either FB or Google is indexing them and associating them with each other behind the scenes as matching the same person. Keep in mind that both FB and Google make their living by tracking you, and they've got vast fleets of people who are experts in finding ways to track you even when you think they aren't. This is particularly true if you use anything Google (Chrome as a browser, Android as a phone, Chromebook as a laptop) etc.

Thanks for the tip! Will using a TOR browser help defeat this?

[JZLizard]

I had to share some success I had with a young lady. I'm a member of several stuff for sale facebook groups in my area. A local young hot single mom posted looking for a room mate and offering for sale some hot shoes, outfits etc. I used my alternate facebook profile to contact her and politely offer compensation for her to model some of her items for sale.

See that's thinking outside the box, and will occasionally result in some real gems, especially since she's not in the mainstream SD scene, she doesn't have tons of e-mails from to wade through and figure out who is for real and who is a creeper or time waster, so you can probably keep that one going as long as you want without her flaking.

I actually prefer this to the more "assembly line" approach of SD sites -- there's some good stuff to be had straight from mainstream social media or civy dating avenues, it's just that it takes a little creative thinking and risk taking and patience. The patience is required because what works to find one girl will not necessarily work repeatedly or predictably, each situation has to be handled and optimized case by case. Problem for me is that being a seasonal SD I don't have time for anything but the assembly line method.

Since you mentioned alternative FB profile, I have to mention this in case you or someone reading has an SO and needs strict anonymity: *be careful* with FB profiles. Unless you use a completely different computer to log into each FB profile, you have to be very, very careful to manage privacy. There have been times I've been able to easily find someone's real FB profile by searching on their fake name -- either FB or Google is indexing them and associating them with each other behind the scenes as matching the same person. Keep in mind that both FB and Google make their living by tracking you, and they've got vast fleets of people who are experts in finding ways to track you even when you think they aren't. This is particularly true if you use anything Google (Chrome as a browser, Android as a phone, Chromebook as a laptop) etc.