"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[FotoGuy1970]

I almost hate to jinx this, especially with the way my luck has been going in the sugar world the past couple months, but I have to share this. Since Friday, I've been texting with a POT from SA. She's a first-timer, early 20's, blonde hair, blue eyes, 5'2", athletic figure. She is totally on board with a physical arrangement and in texts she is providing a true GFE. We have a lunch M&G scheduled for Monday with a very likely date to the FC immediately after. I was just about to give up on sugar dating for the summer when she came along. I hope tomorrow goes well, I will provide an update following our date.

[HollywoodGuy]

I did a few M&G's today.

1. Got invited to a private fetish party in the hills. It was like a cheesy version of those movies you see where the so called beautiful people live and play. But it was actually a rental where some guy was shooting fetish porn and the girls from the videos were the entertainment for the party. I was immediately drawn to a 19 year old perfectly tanned white girl wearing a tiny leather mini skirt. We retired to a sofa where I began to caress her perfect legs and feet all the while admiring her smooth and unpantied vagina. After about 20 minutes and .4 lighter (this is sort of like a private strip club event) I suggested she email me for a trip to the FC at a future date.

As she never lifted her eyes from her cel except to briefly cover her lady parts with a finger when she saw my thirsty eyes locked on her, I doubt she will get back to me. She was a 9. No makeup, and a few pimples, which she knew meant nothing on that pinup body of hers.

2. By now I was ready to fuck anything. Went home and set up a M&G with a very average to below average 20 year old white girl in Hollywood. I sent her very specific instructions on what it would take to get paid. She implored me to just do the M&G first where she promptly turned me down. No upsell. I couldn't even get her to do a HJ for $.

3. Went home again and a pretty 18 year old black girl also in hollywood messages me that we should have a M&G. So I went out yet again. Met her at a nearby staples parking lot and drove to a starbucks. Turned out she was a recent immigrant that came here to go to college. Obviously middle class and educated, with the body of a diva and the face of an angel. And the sexiest voice ever. I never stare at a girls tits but in her case it was impossible not to. On the surface she was the ideal SB as far as I could tell. We discussed allowance. The usual $ per date, which would cover her rent. 8 bills for 8 days or dates. She said the mentoring and emotional / physical support was very important to her. Which is how I get most of these $ dates unless they are UTR's or inner city babes that just need cash now.

This was all on top of two guaranteed FC dates that I canceled. One was a girl that isn't going anywhere and is probably a utr on the down low. The other was from a fresh yet older girl who was more than a little upset at my flaking. She was hot but still only a booty call.

My MILF seems to be mia at the moment as she is tired of being a booty call for 3 years now. Can't really blame her. At some point she will break down but for now she is gone and mad / upset.

My CL ad got about 10 responses this week which i winnowed down to the two afore mentioned FC dates.

[JZLizard]

Pulling out is almost statistically identical to using condoms in terms of pregnancy prevention. It's basically trigger happy teenagers that pulling out isn't recommended because they haven't developed the proper control yet.

I'm actually amazed at how effective it has proven to be in my own case. I hate condoms to the point that I am usually unable to deliver the yogurt while wearing one anyway (it's not new for me, been that way since a teen), so I often find myself in a position of wearing a condom initially (to ease any concerns she may have), and then after she starts realizing I'm never going to cum with it on, it ends up coming off, with the sex continuing BB with pull out or maybe BBBJCIM if she's up for it.

As far as STDs, I have attribute the fact that I've never had one to a number of factors, including (1) technically I'm not really a mongerer, so most of the women I bang are in a different league than high-volume girls and thus are not even close to high-risk lifestyle girls. I would never have vaginal sex unprotected with someone like a BP escort, someone I met off CL, etc. Or even a SB that I remotely suspected of being high-volume, under any circumstances. Honestly some of the one-night-stands I've had from my bar hopping days were probably a lot riskier than the socioeconomic category that my recent SBs have been in. (2) maybe I have a strong immune system (3) I'm just lucky (4) the probability of female-to-male transmission of many STDs, in a single encounter, tends to be a little inflated by the media although perhaps it should be.

Your idea of an odor test isn't a bad idea but I guess I've been lucky there too because I honestly cannot remember the last time I've smelled even remotely bad pussy, it would have to be decades ago. And, if you believe the medical community at all, this can be a factor of their diet as much as anything else.

[Dolato]

I want to get some opinions from the group on a recent discovery.

Remember I asked you guys recently if I should disclose to my CL Teacher SB if I was married? There was a slight majority of maintaining the status quo. I ended up splitting the difference. I began to describe certain things in the plural form, to basically give her a hint that I had some kind of family but still keeping it vague. She hasn't acted any differently so far, so that's good.

Even knowing what you now know, I'd keep things the way it is. I'm sure she either knows already or has an idea, but no need to put it out there plainly. If some moral dilemma about cheating on her man caused her to go silent at times, being faced with the blunt truth that you're married may have similar results.

I think if you weigh the pros / cons of telling her, the cons will weigh heavier than the pros.

[John G Smith]

I want to get some opinions from the group on a recent discovery.

Remember I asked you guys recently if I should disclose to my CL Teacher SB if I was married? There was a slight majority of maintaining the status quo. I ended up splitting the difference. I began to describe certain things in the plural form, to basically give her a hint that I had some kind of family but still keeping it vague. She hasn't acted any differently so far, so that's good.

However while I was doing a routine check of FB profiles, hers looked mostly the same but I ran a search of "Photos of (Sugar Baby) by Friends" (BTW, Facebook with their recent changes has made Internet stalking too easy it's scary) and some new pictures came up. I found a picture with my SB in a profile picture with a guy cozy-ed up together. My SB's FB page has no pictures and no mentions of this guy (which is why I never bothered to check him) but I decided to do a deep dig through this guy's profile and I started to find more and more pictures of them together or posts referencing her. Eventually I found out they've been together for at least a year. For the first few minutes of discovering this, I was oddly jealous, LOL. But then I was pretty happy about it. She's attached so it means she's not going to do anything overly crazy / psycho and probably won't get clingy. It also explains why she's been okay with doing things discretely and explains the periods where she dropped out of communication for a bit. She was probably having a moral dilemma. But she has kept seeing me for over 5 months, almost half their relationship so I'm giving her something he isn't. Plus he lives over a hour away, so I'm not going to bump into him.

Now the question, since I now know she has a boyfriend, is it safer to tell her I'm married without messing things up? She's messing around on her man, so I can't see her having a major moral outrage that I'm cheating on my SO with her. Then again women are weird and some have issues with being perceived as "breaking up" a marriage. I doubt she's one of them though. Then again, we have a good thing going and maybe vague is good. It's just I'm not used to hiding that I'm married from Long-Term SBs so that's why I'm uncomfortable with it.

To ensure my post contains at least some useful information when you're doing a FB background check, use the various tools to search the friends of your target. It's often the friends who are the weak point in the privacy shield. Conversely, you need to keep this in mind with your personal info and you should always pay attention to the alerts when someone tags you. Even if you lockdown your own timeline / profile, if someone has tagged you in a bunch of photos then your face / name will show up in a search. I always remove tags anytime someone tries to tag me and I keep a very low almost non-existent FB presence. You don't want to give a rogue SB a direct line to your SO if they know your real name, which can happen if you're tagged in family or group photos. Facebook just makes it too easy to connect the dots.

[John G Smith]

Or for those of us on the budget plan, just go for the CIM, it's free and has less downtime. LOL.

Pulling out is almost statistically identical to using condoms in terms of pregnancy prevention. It's basically trigger happy teenagers that pulling out isn't recommended because they haven't developed the proper control yet.

STDs weigh heavier on my mind than pregnancy scares when it comes to BB. Only one SB did I ever come inside and I knew she was on the pill. Otherwise I just pull out regardless, especially with the younger girls. I just don't trust them to take pills regularly because they don't have much of a track record. But a 30 year-old with no or just one kid, then I know she's able to take birth control regularly.

I wasn't around in the 70's, but maybe some of you can enlighten me, doesn't it feel like we're harkening back to the 60/70's era of casual sex? With HIV no longer being a death sentence anymore, it definitely feels like more guys and girls are being more accepting again of casual BB sex. This seems to be backed up by statistics that say sexual risk taking decreased significantly in the 1980's and early 1990's, but recently has increased. Viral STDs is still decreasing but bacterial STDs have increased recently. It's as if we've reverted back to the 70's.

I applaud my brothers here who are able to have the discipline to put a cap on every time. I don't have the same discipline. I have ED issues with condoms, so I often partake of BB if it's on the table. Ideally I would exchange test results and everything first, but unfortunately I've learned the Sugar Bowl is a fast paced game. While you're waiting around for test results the SB could have already moved on. So it's great if both parties have test results ready to go (BTW then there's the issue of revealing your real identity), but if the girl doesn't have it, then it can often be a pain to have her get results. And if she has to make an extra effort to get tested, then you run the risk of adding a negotiation point with her demanding an increase in the allowance for testing and BB play. So initially I tried to do BB the safe and proper way, but it just became a huge hassle. So now I just do the very unscientific method of performing a visual and odor hygienic test. And with the younger girls, a 20-year old usually only has had so many boyfriends / sex partners. And I never BB a UTR or Pro.

We all have our own accepted levels of risk.

[JZLizard]

v.as.e.c.t.o.m.y. ?

Or for those of us on the budget plan, just go for the CIM, it's free and has less downtime. LOL.

Honestly the one time I had the pregnancy scare it was just because I was too lazy to pull out. I don't make that mistake anymore. As the Diceman used to say just leave them sticky broke and confused. Okay maybe just sticky and confused then. LOL.

[Rouleur]

v.as.e.c.t.o.m.y. ?

I had a vasectomy about 3 months before I discovered my then Wife's year long affair. She pushed for it so we could be "more free" Looking back, I think it was more to do with not having any more children with any future "wife" to compete for the Child support payments I make for our 3 Daughters.

My one successful SD / SB meeting was bb and no worries about pregnancy. I have not fully resolved my long term plan for protection against stds, however wearing a condom is the best method of creating ED I know. I'm of the mind to send my Ex a thank you card.

[HollywoodGuy]

and last, no one answered my question early about handling bare back sex and the potential for knocking one of these girls up. Bare back sex is natural and the way it should be and in the sb world, it's a risk i am willing to assume with most girls i have met. However, how do you assure she won't get knocked up? You are kidding yourself if you do not think some of these girls would jump up and down singing "jackpot" if she became pregnant thinking we are millionaires.

v.as.e.c.t.o.m.y. ?

[JZLizard]

We all, including them, (SB) got something to hide. That much I've learned early on. The biggest threat to discretion is a disgruntled SB. Especially if you have an SO, or employment where such a hobby could be catastrophic. I'm new to this, but through phone numbers, emails, and stuff they casually tell me during M&G I am able to then quickly and easily obtain info on who they are. So far, the youngest two were married, one was to a truck driver and she was a SB while he was away. I found his and her facebook, even the company he was driving with and his current routes plastered on his facebook. Now I would NEVER, EVER use such knowledge unless it became absolutely necessary to protect my own discretion in this hobby. If any of these girls were to threaten to blackmail me etc, the info comes out and would be used to deter their aggression.

In the case of the type of "pseudo-SB" (in the sense that there's not necessarily direct payment) I'm referring to, they had nothing to hide (nor did I) beyond what we would keep hidden on a normal dating site, because neither of us were doing anything outside of the normal dating ritual. Granted at the time I did this, I was not in a relationship so I was free to date, and the same was true of them (that's why I said if you're married, be careful with Facebook and also don't expect it to be a good place to find other girls in a committed relationship). Me personally I'm a bit secretive even with the photos I'm willing to post publically on a dating site, but that's partially for professional reasons and also because I don't want some other wanker stealing my photos or just any unauthorized use of them. But I've met SBs on the SD sites that use their first name in their profile, and put enough info in their profile that I was able to find them on Facebook in a matter of seconds based solely on their profile. In a few cases I've told them they might want to anonymize their public photos a little bit and wait until they know someone better to reveal their face so clearly, and on more than one occasion they've told me they aren't doing anything wrong why should they care if someone sees them because they've got nothing to hide? It's just a difference of perspective and some of them see their search for an SD as being so far from pro sex work that its nothing shameful.

I was recently looking at one of my friend's FB photos. There was a link to one of his daughter's friends. On her FB account, she posted pictures of herself doing various things, including one set of photos where she showed herself with her SD, describing him as "her expense account" and showing off all the vacation photos from the trips they'd taken! She is about 21, he is like 50 with a creepy grin on his face in the photos. This is where all her friends and parents can see. She's bragging about it. A SD is like a status symbol to some of these women, and their own moms tell them they should try to snag one in some cases.

It actually makes for more relaxing time when each of you have mutually destructive info on each other.

Another thing I do is save all communication and texts we share. I want this as evidence in the vent she claims I was some abuser or something. I am genuinely a nice guy and have never had this sort of issue, but hell have no furry like a woman scorned. So after dates, I entice them indirectly for a summary. Usually a text telling them about the date and what a wonderful time I had etc. They usually follow suit.

And last, no one answered my question early about handling bare back sex and the potential for knocking one of these girls up. How do you assure if they tell you they are on the pill, or fixed, it's true?

I have never went bare back in the P4 P world, always safe, but this is different. And I am tested and have no STD's, never have. I know there is still some risk, but no more then taking home a girl from the club. Bare back sex is natural and the way it should be and in the SB world, it's a risk I am willing to assume with most girls I have met. However, how do you assure she won't get knocked up? You are kidding yourself if you do not think some of these girls would jump up and down singing "jackpot" if she became pregnant thinking we are millionaires.

I'm all for keeping good books on the girls, and having some defense leverage under the table out of sight but ready to go if they should ever get nasty. However I will say you don't have to be an SD to have a nasty pregnancy scare. I had a would-be SB once rake me over the coals with the pregnancy scare, and her motives had nothing to do with money since she refused to accept any cash from me. She was doing it strictly to be vengeful and to get a reaction out of me after I left the relationship. She knew I had very little money at the time -- she just wanted the power of making me squirm as payback for not getting things her way.

[Dsprdo]

And last, no one answered my question early about handling bare back sex and the potential for knocking one of these girls up. How do you assure if they tell you they are on the pill, or fixed, it's true?

I have never went bare back in the P4 P world, always safe, but this is different. And I am tested and have no STD's, never have. I know there is still some risk, but no more then taking home a girl from the club. Bare back sex is natural and the way it should be and in the SB world, it's a risk I am willing to assume with most girls I have met. However, how do you assure she won't get knocked up? You are kidding yourself if you do not think some of these girls would jump up and down singing "jackpot" if she became pregnant thinking we are millionaires.

If you go back a ways you will see some discussion of someone on here who faced exactly that situation. Short answer is if you're not fixed and you go au naturel, you are risking 18 years of installment payments. BB is great, but I (almost) always cover it up. Sometimes you just lose your head, like you did, but it is not a good long term policy.

[DirtyDeeds38]

In my civy dating travels, I occasionally found myself playing an SD role, yet paying in forms of sugar that were non-monetary. For example, sometimes I would find someone 15-20 years younger who I identified as someone who was in school or freshly out of school, aspiring to enter the same industry that I work in (and have been successful in). This can be a hugely valuable set of cards to play in your favor if you can find a struggling college student or grad who sees your industry experience as valuable and can help her find a way to get her foot in the door. College has conditioned her to seek mentors, after all. And if you don't know already, single heterosexual college professors have more opportunity for pussy than a rock star in the 80's did (they might have to dodge campus policy about student dating and so forth, and social media gossip probably makes it harder these days, but the opportunity is there and my point is that teaching a female anything gets her panties wet).

But you don't have to be a professor, just experienced in your field (and all this assumes you're in a field that you can find young females trying to break into the business. If you own a retail store that sells tobacco & accessories or exotic pets you might need to search a little harder to find college grads that are looking for your specific knowledge). But let's say for example you're a doctor or otherwise work in healthcare. Do you know it's very easy to search Facebook for females in nursing school in a given city? This of course does not mean you should send form letters to all of them offering $$ for CIM (LOL). But if you see someone who seems like the open minded type, who knows what making contact with her might turn into? (Yes a doctor or anyone with a professional reputation at stake will want to be careful about going around hitting on young girls on FB, so of course use your judgment, but also remember much stranger things have happened on FB). Also if you need to protect your identity, be careful on FB (see other recent posts about this).

Most of my past experiences of these unwitting SBs started with contact from basic dating websites (POF, match etc), but FB popularity is really widespread now days so that is just one more vehicle. A lot of girls will tell you what field they aspire to work in right in their profile, whether its a dating or SD site.

This may sound like a longshot or something that only happens once in a lifetime, but I've been able to find these "pseudo SBs" on more than one occasion and benefitted greatly for it. Just remember that your work experience is probably very attractive to someone out there, its just a matter of finding her.

We all, including them, (SB) got something to hide. That much I've learned early on. The biggest threat to discretion is a disgruntled SB. Especially if you have an SO, or employment where such a hobby could be catastrophic. I'm new to this, but through phone numbers, emails, and stuff they casually tell me during M&G I am able to then quickly and easily obtain info on who they are. So far, the youngest two were married, one was to a truck driver and she was a SB while he was away. I found his and her facebook, even the company he was driving with and his current routes plastered on his facebook. Now I would NEVER, EVER use such knowledge unless it became absolutely necessary to protect my own discretion in this hobby. If any of these girls were to threaten to blackmail me etc, the info comes out and would be used to deter their aggression.

It actually makes for more relaxing time when each of you have mutually destructive info on each other.

Another thing I do is save all communication and texts we share. I want this as evidence in the vent she claims I was some abuser or something. I am genuinely a nice guy and have never had this sort of issue, but hell have no furry like a woman scorned. So after dates, I entice them indirectly for a summary. Usually a text telling them about the date and what a wonderful time I had etc. They usually follow suit.

And last, no one answered my question early about handling bare back sex and the potential for knocking one of these girls up. How do you assure if they tell you they are on the pill, or fixed, it's true?

I have never went bare back in the P4 P world, always safe, but this is different. And I am tested and have no STD's, never have. I know there is still some risk, but no more then taking home a girl from the club. Bare back sex is natural and the way it should be and in the SB world, it's a risk I am willing to assume with most girls I have met. However, how do you assure she won't get knocked up? You are kidding yourself if you do not think some of these girls would jump up and down singing "jackpot" if she became pregnant thinking we are millionaires.

[JZLizard]

In my civy dating travels, I occasionally found myself playing an SD role, yet paying in forms of sugar that were non-monetary. For example, sometimes I would find someone 15-20 years younger who I identified as someone who was in school or freshly out of school, aspiring to enter the same industry that I work in (and have been successful in). This can be a hugely valuable set of cards to play in your favor if you can find a struggling college student or grad who sees your industry experience as valuable and can help her find a way to get her foot in the door. College has conditioned her to seek mentors, after all. And if you don't know already, single heterosexual college professors have more opportunity for pussy than a rock star in the 80's did (they might have to dodge campus policy about student dating and so forth, and social media gossip probably makes it harder these days, but the opportunity is there and my point is that teaching a female anything gets her panties wet).

But you don't have to be a professor, just experienced in your field (and all this assumes you're in a field that you can find young females trying to break into the business. If you own a retail store that sells tobacco & accessories or exotic pets you might need to search a little harder to find college grads that are looking for your specific knowledge). But let's say for example you're a doctor or otherwise work in healthcare. Do you know it's very easy to search Facebook for females in nursing school in a given city? This of course does not mean you should send form letters to all of them offering $$ for CIM (LOL). But if you see someone who seems like the open minded type, who knows what making contact with her might turn into? (Yes a doctor or anyone with a professional reputation at stake will want to be careful about going around hitting on young girls on FB, so of course use your judgment, but also remember much stranger things have happened on FB). Also if you need to protect your identity, be careful on FB (see other recent posts about this).

Most of my past experiences of these unwitting SBs started with contact from basic dating websites (POF, match etc), but FB popularity is really widespread now days so that is just one more vehicle. A lot of girls will tell you what field they aspire to work in right in their profile, whether its a dating or SD site.

This may sound like a longshot or something that only happens once in a lifetime, but I've been able to find these "pseudo SBs" on more than one occasion and benefitted greatly for it. Just remember that your work experience is probably very attractive to someone out there, its just a matter of finding her.

[JZLizard]

I'll a few things you can do on your computer:

All good advice, and since there's a lot of good information out there for learning about anonymization / security, I'll just leave it with the general idea that if anything seems to be providing a convenience, it should be immediately suspect. As GW said, anything that remembers you or provides you the convenience of not having to log in each time is your enemy. Also look up the google pref I D and understand what that means if you don't already, as it's a specific cookie value that you will want to know about.

Wiping your cookies and history and so forth is a good practice anyway. However, once a fake profile has been linked to a real profile, the association exists somewhere on a server that you won't be able to wipe (perhaps ever), so try to approach the goal of anonymity with the assumption that you may not get a second chance. Sounds a little tin-foil-hat I know, but those with an SO to lose, particularly married guys that could get hosed financially as well as emotionally, can benefit from being a little paranoia here.

[Member #5055]

I'll a few things you can do on your computer:

1. First, if possible, have different logins on your computer for you and anybody else who uses it.

2. Whatever browser you use, set it up so it remembers NOTHING, suggests NOTHING. IE can also be told to erase the entire temporary files area upon exit.

3. Double check every now and again that all cookies and history are deleted.

4. DO NOT use a Google+ account. If you have one. Delete it.

5. Do NOT use FB as logins to other systems. Keep them separate.

6. Whenever possible, do NOT give them your phone number as extra password "security".

In other words, keep your SD logins for ANYTHING separate. It also does no harm to every now and again to de-install and re-install your browser from scratch.

GW.

Since you mentioned alternative FB profile, I have to mention this in case you or someone reading has an SO and needs strict anonymity: *be careful* with FB profiles. Unless you use a completely different computer to log into each FB profile, you have to be very, very careful to manage privacy. There have been times I've been able to easily find someone's real FB profile by searching on their fake name -- either FB or Google is indexing them and associating them with each other behind the scenes as matching the same person. Keep in mind that both FB and Google make their living by tracking you, and they've got vast fleets of people who are experts in finding ways to track you even when you think they aren't. This is particularly true if you use anything Google (Chrome as a browser, Android as a phone, Chromebook as a laptop) etc.