Rants, Raves and Opinions AKA "The Octagon"

[Smokey Gringo]

Meanwhile, I see news reports every week about hobbyists getting busted in hotel stings. All those mugshots? They always come from hotel room stings.

I have *never* heard of an outcall bust at a hobbyist's private residence.

And if you're going through the verification process most of these girls are asking for, they can find out where you live anyway.

You are probably safer if you're going to an AMP, since they don't do any verification. Unless you happen to be there on the day of an LE bust.

The cops want you to come them like an assembly line. They ain't wasting their time to drive up to bust just you.

And I'll say for it for the 900th time:

While I like to remain private and drama free, I can reveal myself and tamp drama because I have nothing to lose.

Outcall is far superior.

They're coming to you. Which means ain't no dude knocking on doors, busting in, kids or whatever. If you have this much to lose, why are you even playing in the first place? What are they going to do with it, pay your bill for you? Shut off service or something? Again, they'd have to pay the bill first. And so they know where you live. I've seen 100 girls and 200 norms. Not one has even caused a problem. You give these people too much credit.

But it's always been my position to respect / protect both you and me.

[Smokey Gringo]

I suggest that when someone posts about politics (from either political perspective), at least three of us should post kitten / puppy photos as responses.

I'll blow this thread up with cat pics asshole. Don't play haha.

I got 4-6 shop cats that need a home.

[Smokey Gringo]

I thinking about offering my services to only senior members:

Todd and Rufus got me thinking. I'll be a driver. You text me, I come and take you, scout out the area, then hotel / house, make sure it's clear, and let the ladies know won't be ripoffs, you come in and do whatever and everybody gets home safe and happy.

I've seen so many "the boyfriend / husband busted in". They wouldn't if they knew you had a driver.

Just throwing it out there.

[Todd Cincy]

We all know and agreed to knock it off. There's a curtain in the voting booth for a reason.

We were discussing outcall and the recent market and bullshit going on.

I suggest that when someone posts about politics (from either political perspective), at least three of us should post kitten / puppy photos as responses.

[Smokey Gringo]

Can't say that anymore; "it's only a civil trial".

Trump is now a felon. He's a convicted criminal.

We all know and agreed to knock it off. There's a curtain in the voting booth for a reason.

We were discussing outcall and the recent market and bullshit going on.

[Todd Cincy]

Providers and their pimps knowing my address, showing up where I live, knowing how much I pay for gas and electric. LOL Thankfully before my time. Yikes.

Meanwhile, I see news reports every week about hobbyists getting busted in hotel stings. All those mugshots? They always come from hotel room stings.

I have *never* heard of an outcall bust at a hobbyist's private residence.

And if you're going through the verification process most of these girls are asking for, they can find out where you live anyway.

You are probably safer if you're going to an AMP, since they don't do any verification. Unless you happen to be there on the day of an LE bust.

[Smokey Gringo]

So what is your point?

You said a lot with little to no meaning. Are you a politician? You did attack me but I am a big boy and can take it unlike you who is too scared to admit you are attacking me.

My point is treat these ladies with some dignity and you might enjoy your time with them more than usual. After all they are people.

This fucking guy. Geeezus:

You're a Simp. A White Knight.

Your recent posts are both pandering to the ladies and condescending to us. It is us versus them homie. You've forgotten your side.

[D Nut]

I believe these were all civil lawsuits where he had judgements issued against him. These are not criminal convictions. Just my 2 cents.

Can't say that anymore; "it's only a civil trial".

Trump is now a felon. He's a convicted criminal.

[RufusFirefly]

So what is your point?

You said a lot with little to no meaning. Are you a politician? You did attack me but I am a big boy and can take it unlike you who is too scared to admit you are attacking me.

My point is treat these ladies with some dignity and you might enjoy your time with them more than usual. After all they are people.

I think everybody but you read that right? I've seen some of your posts and I'm guessing English ain't your first language and it's the second time you've taken offense to something I've said when one I was quoting you (direct) and this time.

Definition of "Vitriol"- cruel and bitter criticism.

But now it's going to be:

Both this quoted one and the next after read like A. We are all newbie dumbshits and B. A true stunning polished armored White Knight. Homie I been around a looooong time and seen from the low end to the high. The second comment is so moot it's funny. "Don't see them or do" "Deposit or no deposit" "No ones forcing you". I'm going to add in addition to my comment below the title of "Captain Obvious" or call you Yoda.

You're right though, the business has changed. And for the absolute worst. And it's not the dudes. It's the talent. All of them. The difference now instead of having the agency / handler having a website like Todd said, we have shitholes like Babylon and Tryst. And that leave us to not have a true response like inquiring we got "Hey that girl no longer works for me. She's off the "deep end"" or was ripping people and me off. " which we could get from the agency or handler. Secondly, no agency or handler required a deposit because they could tell the girls just like Todd said "They're good. " Which opened the opportunity to allow less stable girls, insane prices, and plenty of deposit ripoffs. And it's because not enough guys put their foot down to show the girls how it should be done and new guys and how it was done and will be.

I don't care how many dudes have ghosted them, there is twice as many waiting. That's such a bullshit reasoning on the girls behalf and for you to take up. Look down the ripoffs on how many deposits were taken. It's a bad business practice no matter what anyone says. So she drove to Mason and it took an hour of her time and the dude never responded, go right down the list and some other dude will answer either close or 15 minutes in any direction. And if not they'll be more tomorrow. WHERE ELSE ARE THEY MAKING $250-500 an hour? NOWHERE. So they lost that hour whatever and they make it up the next day it's $125-250 an hour average. Again, NOWHERE.

I know they all got bills and bullshit. Why even argue that again? Because so do I and you. See my above point, I'd bet my nuts in your career you don't make either of those per hour.

And the "so I met the one lady", she didn't win it, she worked for it, was way dependable, and not gifted. She was just cool and open. I have gotten to know them. I know so much about them is why I'm always complaining they're walking all over everyone and not taking up the sword and shield like you.

The position I'll ever take up for them is the cretins and orges they have to look at possibly pounding their goods. Or If the dudes a bad vibe or pushes it and gets physical or gets creepy and causes trouble. THAT'S IT.

[Smokey Gringo]

I find it funny that you state your vitriol is not directed at me but it was a direct reply to my comment. But after reading your reply and looking at the logic you use I can see that you may not see that you were direction that to my comment.

So because you met one lady that was either successful or maybe was gifted or won a large sum of money you believe all these ladies are spreading money on their beds and rolling in it after we leave. I will say most of these ladies probably more wonder how they are going to pay the rent. So they cannot afford to buy a car, maintenance, insurance, registration, and gas.

Like said before because of their past decisions they cannot have a license. And then there are the current addicts that you do not want driving. Some of these ladies have mental or emotional illnesses that would make it better if they did not drive..

I think everybody but you read that right? I've seen some of your posts and I'm guessing English ain't your first language and it's the second time you've taken offense to something I've said when one I was quoting you (direct) and this time.

Definition of "Vitriol"- cruel and bitter criticism.

But now it's going to be:

Both this quoted one and the next after read like A. We are all newbie dumbshits and B. A true stunning polished armored White Knight. Homie I been around a looooong time and seen from the low end to the high. The second comment is so moot it's funny. "Don't see them or do" "Deposit or no deposit" "No ones forcing you". I'm going to add in addition to my comment below the title of "Captain Obvious" or call you Yoda.

You're right though, the business has changed. And for the absolute worst. And it's not the dudes. It's the talent. All of them. The difference now instead of having the agency / handler having a website like Todd said, we have shitholes like Babylon and Tryst. And that leave us to not have a true response like inquiring we got "Hey that girl no longer works for me. She's off the "deep end"" or was ripping people and me off. " which we could get from the agency or handler. Secondly, no agency or handler required a deposit because they could tell the girls just like Todd said "They're good. " Which opened the opportunity to allow less stable girls, insane prices, and plenty of deposit ripoffs. And it's because not enough guys put their foot down to show the girls how it should be done and new guys and how it was done and will be.

I don't care how many dudes have ghosted them, there is twice as many waiting. That's such a bullshit reasoning on the girls behalf and for you to take up. Look down the ripoffs on how many deposits were taken. It's a bad business practice no matter what anyone says. So she drove to Mason and it took an hour of her time and the dude never responded, go right down the list and some other dude will answer either close or 15 minutes in any direction. And if not they'll be more tomorrow. WHERE ELSE ARE THEY MAKING $250-500 an hour? NOWHERE. So they lost that hour whatever and they make it up the next day it's $125-250 an hour average. Again, NOWHERE.

I know they all got bills and bullshit. Why even argue that again? Because so do I and you. See my above point, I'd bet my nuts in your career you don't make either of those per hour.

And the "so I met the one lady", she didn't win it, she worked for it, was way dependable, and not gifted. She was just cool and open. I have gotten to know them. I know so much about them is why I'm always complaining they're walking all over everyone and not taking up the sword and shield like you.

The position I'll ever take up for them is the cretins and orges they have to look at possibly pounding their goods. Or If the dudes a bad vibe or pushes it and gets physical or gets creepy and causes trouble. THAT'S IT.

[PearishBA]

When I started dabbling with the hobby (1990's), almost all of the higher-end escorts were associated with agencies.

The agencies had a rule: first appointment at a residence attached to your name. When the girl arrived, often she made you produce either a.) a DL with that address, or b.) a utility bill at that address with your name on it.

The agencies had a "system": they hired drivers for the girls who didn't have transportation. The agency owners also provided protection for the girls, at least to some degree. They could tell a new girl, "This guy you're going to see tonight, lots of girls have been to his house, so you'll have no problems. ".

The agencies also saw the outcall-at-residence practice as a way of protecting themselves. One agency owner told me, "When LE sets up a sting, they always want you to come to a hotel. ".

Over the years, local reliable agencies have become fewer and fewer. It's the Wild West out there now.

Just before the pandemic, I noticed that about half of the indies expected you to come to a hotel.

That *used to be* something that only lower-end girls did. But now the girls charging $500/ hour also expect you to drive to them, and the percentage with this expectation is closer to 80%.

I much prefer the old system. I realize there were disadvantages to the agency system; but I never had a problem. And I used the agencies for *years*, off-and-on..

Providers and their pimps knowing my address, showing up where I live, knowing how much I pay for gas and electric. LOL Thankfully before my time. Yikes.

[Todd Cincy]

I agree with you in theory, Gringo. But you have to keep in mind that many of them don't have a driver's license because they fucked up sometime in the past (DUI, etc). And even if they could afford an old junker, they have to insure it and they have to buy gas, both of which keep going up, up, up. And as far as "if they apply themselves" goes, many of them are simply incapable of doing that. They come from shitty homes and backgrounds where they were never taught anything about money and the "family" (if that's what you want to call it) lived day-to-day. Most of them were never in an environment where they could develop basic, common sense.

When I started dabbling with the hobby (1990's), almost all of the higher-end escorts were associated with agencies.

The agencies had a rule: first appointment at a residence attached to your name. When the girl arrived, often she made you produce either a.) a DL with that address, or b.) a utility bill at that address with your name on it.

The agencies had a "system": they hired drivers for the girls who didn't have transportation. The agency owners also provided protection for the girls, at least to some degree. They could tell a new girl, "This guy you're going to see tonight, lots of girls have been to his house, so you'll have no problems. ".

The agencies also saw the outcall-at-residence practice as a way of protecting themselves. One agency owner told me, "When LE sets up a sting, they always want you to come to a hotel. ".

Over the years, local reliable agencies have become fewer and fewer. It's the Wild West out there now.

Just before the pandemic, I noticed that about half of the indies expected you to come to a hotel.

That *used to be* something that only lower-end girls did. But now the girls charging $500/ hour also expect you to drive to them, and the percentage with this expectation is closer to 80%.

I much prefer the old system. I realize there were disadvantages to the agency system; but I never had a problem. And I used the agencies for *years*, off-and-on.

Even as recently as 2019, I preferred using Discreet Desires and Fantasys because I could get a reliable experience at my house without having to drive to Sharonville or Covington for an uncertain situation with an unvetted party.

[RufusFirefly]

So I read many comments about how some of these ladies do not have good business sense which I will admit some do not. Then I read comments from mongers complaining about ladies having good business practices.

So you complain if a lady only provides incall but do you realize she can make more money with in call. She can charge almost as much as outcall. She does not have to spend the time driving which a round trip would add 30 min to 1 hour to her service. Oh and then there is the added cist of transportation. Only to find out some monger is not there. Oh and do not forget they are less secure when they are on an outcall.

So the reason there are more deposits required is times are changing so their business has to change. First there is the easy of getting paid through apps. How many fast-food places offer specials only on their app. When you reserve a car or a hotel room you pay a deposit. These ladies charge deposits because many mongers never show up. Oh yes I know you do not believe me because mongers never report that they made an appointment and did not show up and did not reply to the lady. They only tell you that they got ghosted.

If you do not like to go to the lady do not go. No one is forcing you. If you do not want to pay a deposit do not pay a deposit. No one is forcing you. But you will enjoy the hobby more if you learn more about it. One thing I learned is that most of these ladies will treat you really good if you treat them like a lady or a person. Get to know a little about them and you might learn something.

[RufusFirefly]

I find it funny that you state your vitriol is not directed at me but it was a direct reply to my comment. But after reading your reply and looking at the logic you use I can see that you may not see that you were direction that to my comment.

So because you met one lady that was either successful or maybe was gifted or won a large sum of money you believe all these ladies are spreading money on their beds and rolling in it after we leave. I will say most of these ladies probably more wonder how they are going to pay the rent. So they cannot afford to buy a car, maintenance, insurance, registration, and gas.

Like said before because of their past decisions they cannot have a license. And then there are the current addicts that you do not want driving. Some of these ladies have mental or emotional illnesses that would make it better if they did not drive.

Do yourself a favor get to know these ladies and do not generalize because just like us they are people and no two are exactly alike.

They can pay a driver. Or with the money the make they can buy a car, at worst a beater, or absolutely afford to have whatever car repaired. A fucking buy here pay here lot for Christ sakes. I know for a fact because I had to help one of the yesteryear chicks how to invest $30,000. My vitriol isn't aimed at you Rufus, it's just the absolute tax free fucking money these chicks can make if they apply themselves. Is stupid.

[Kenal1]

They can pay a driver. Or with the money the make they can buy a car, at worst a beater, or absolutely afford to have whatever car repaired. A fucking buy here pay here lot for Christ sakes. I know for a fact because I had to help one of the yesteryear chicks how to invest $30,000. My vitriol isn't aimed at you Rufus, it's just the absolute tax free fucking money these chicks can make if they apply themselves. Is stupid.

I agree with you in theory, Gringo. But you have to keep in mind that many of them don't have a driver's license because they fucked up sometime in the past (DUI, etc). And even if they could afford an old junker, they have to insure it and they have to buy gas, both of which keep going up, up, up. And as far as "if they apply themselves" goes, many of them are simply incapable of doing that. They come from shitty homes and backgrounds where they were never taught anything about money and the "family" (if that's what you want to call it) lived day-to-day. Most of them were never in an environment where they could develop basic, common sense.