Rants and Stupid shit in Orange County

[GentleSun]

Finally, a place for my stupid shit. I have said that some people don't know how OC works. I mean if you don't know anything or care about the law in the US, you just need to observe and you can find out if your argument is valid. This is all about posting "secret" information or not.

Irvine has been flip-flopping over the years. Now, MP's have no reviews, reported as non-erotic or closed. Lake Forest still has over 40 MPs and everything still goes on despite some LE trouble reported recently. Long ago, I think it's Westminster, required MPs to display signs that they are subject to random inspection, and for their own benefit, there were signs that said no sex provided (which is not true). Some cities do not allow doors or mandate a peephole. Cities can easily get rid of all MPs instead of catching evidence of prostitution in each of them.

Are there actually secrets? The city of Orange has over 80 MPs. I bet you can find prostitution in all of them. It has been the most reliable city for getting hand jobs from college girls paying for college. Green Sign has the 2nd highest number of reviews and 1st in trending. To report or not it's a personal matter. There are reasons to and others not. You can't blame other people. If nobody reports there will be no public forums. Somebody isn't going to MPs week in and week out. If you have a good run for months or years, treasure it and don't blame anyone for ruining it.t.

I'm the one that posted in the massage thread questioning the practice of including the MP address in a post describing services. After reading all the feedback, some of which included I'm a dumbass (if the shoe fits), as well as taking note of many MP ads that provide lengthy descriptions of the illegal services they offer, all while including their address, I finally came to the only reasonable conclusion. You guys were right and I was wrong. Sorry to LC310, especially, as he took the brunt of my misguided stance. Mea culpa complete.

[James D 2004]

Finally, a place for my stupid shit. I have said that some people don't know how OC works. I mean if you don't know anything or care about the law in the US, you just need to observe and you can find out if your argument is valid. This is all about posting "secret" information or not.

Irvine has been flip-flopping over the years. Now, MP's have no reviews, reported as non-erotic or closed. Lake Forest still has over 40 MPs and everything still goes on despite some LE trouble reported recently. Long ago, I think it's Westminster, required MPs to display signs that they are subject to random inspection, and for their own benefit, there were signs that said no sex provided (which is not true). Some cities do not allow doors or mandate a peephole. Cities can easily get rid of all MPs instead of catching evidence of prostitution in each of them.

Are there actually secrets? The city of Orange has over 80 MPs. I bet you can find prostitution in all of them. It has been the most reliable city for getting hand jobs from college girls paying for college. Green Sign has the 2nd highest number of reviews and 1st in trending. To report or not it's a personal matter. There are reasons to and others not. You can't blame other people. If nobody reports there will be no public forums. Somebody isn't going to MPs week in and week out. If you have a good run for months or years, treasure it and don't blame anyone for ruining it.

Are there any difficulties in finding the location of secret brothels, the k-houses, c-houses, enclave? I'll be an informant if you pay for it. The so-called private locations in OC on HX are only two, which have a run for several years, and before that, the 91/55 location. The two OC locations were also used by the k-houses before that.

California has a long history of don't ask don't tell, except for trafficking, for which LE has to do something every year to justify their extra funding. The trafficking charges failed on the last one in OC.

Now a little about the law. To catch prostitution you have to get caught paying for sex. So if you are posting valid information, people are helped by you. The MPs can handle that easily in case it happens. Money, and condoms on anybody enjoying a nude massage don't count. If they get busted it's not your fault. It's not like it's a drug house. You search and you get drugs as evidence. Even if LE is monitoring your postings online personally, they still have to catch you in the act.

[Grimmy23]

Hey Grimmy, always appreciate your posts -this was very informative. Why do you think some places get busted then? Is it due to complaints from locals or other businesses? Any thoughts on the kind of place or features of a place that makes it riskier for mongers?

All I can really say is always have your antenna up when patronizing any of these places. Trust your gut, and if your gut tells you that something doesn't look or feel right then keep your pants zipped and get the hell out of there. Busts are somewhat rare, but if you do get caught in a bust or random inspection, keep your mouth shut. You were there for a massage because your back hurt. If they just happen to kick a door open and catch you balls deep in a girl, you didn't pay for it. You came in and got a massage, and everything else that happened was a consensual act between two consenting adults.

What makes busts more likely? I would definitely recommend staying out of cities like Costa Mesa where they keep a close eye on massage shops, even the legit ones. A couple months back an MP opened up in Cerritos. It was reviewed here and I warned people not to go there because Cerritos is a city that doesn't tolerate MPs. A few people mocked me for that here and I even got a couple of threatening messages. I didn't have any inside knowledge, but I do know a few people who work for that city and I know they like to keep a pristine image. Sure enough that place wasn't around for more than a week or two after that discussion popped up here. No LE raid that I could find any evidence of. They most likely took the administrative route and just pulled their operating permit.

I've talked about how Downey is a city that tolerates MPs. If you know Downey, and I lived there for about 24 years, there are 4 or 5 MPs in town that have all been in business for 25-30 years. The city knows full well what goes on in there and they operate completely undisturbed. One of them is even directly across the street from a high school. But one day maybe they get a majority of people on City Council who decide they want their city "cleaned up," so they pass resolutions to shut down the MPs. In the massage industry you usually need what's called a Conditional Use Permit to be open. I won't get too far into the details, but when a CUP is required you have to have a public hearing before you are granted permission to open. That means you have to mail out notices to everyone living within a certain radius of your proposed business informing them of the date, time, and location of the public hearing so they can show up to voice their concerns. It also means you subject yourself to random inspections as I pointed out before, and operating under certain tightly specified conditions. Often the conditions are you must be closed by 10 PM, you can't have blacked out windows, nobody sleeps in the business under any circumstances, etc. If a city wants to shut down MPs, all they have to do is summon owners of those businesses to a special hearing in front of City Council where they have to defend themselves, and if the Council determines they are operating an illicit business they revoke their CUP right on the spot and it's game over. La Palma did that a few years ago. There used to be 3 or 4 AMPs in La Palma and they were more or less undisturbed for a lot of years, until one day LP City Council decided to go after them. I think in that case, the fact that one of them was operating in a medical office building right next door to a doctor's office had a lot to do with it. The doctor's office most likely got annoyed by all of the guys filing into the space next door to get serviced and complained to the city. Again I'm just guessing here. I have no inside knowledge other than knowing how the process works.

Human trafficking can be another trigger. There are places around here that use trafficked girls, and there are Federal task forces going after those. I tend to be on the lookout for signs of trafficking and just avoid those shops, mostly because I don't want to be taking advantage of women who may not be doing this by their own free will. Those shops are also probably more exposed for potential LE raids. Some signs I look out for are any sign of the girls living or sleeping in the shop, shops that get completely new lineups of girls every couple weeks, and any sign of physical or emotional abuse. Not that those are 100% signs that the girls are trafficked, but they're among the most telltale signs. It's a controversial subject when I talk about it here so do your research and draw your own conclusions.

[Taws6]

5. Once again, it doesn't take a LE sting to go after a MP. If a city wants a place shut down, there are 100 different ways they could do it without getting LE involved, and a lot of them can be done so quietly that the public won't even notice. It's not to say that MPs don't get busted, because we all know they do, but the main point is that speaking in code on here isn't going to prevent anyplace from getting busted.

Grimmy, thanks again for a wonderful, educational post.

Others might disagree with me, but posting more information, not less on what parlors do what will only help drive more business to parlors that have a broader menu.

The whole supply & demand dynamic, if demand is concentrated in the few full service shops, - ore demand. The supply will soon follow. The false advertizing places that don't provide, will get less business or would need to up their game to remain competitive.

But, perhaps I'm oversimplifying it. Speaking in codes does no one any good. IMHO.

[Oc Amper]

Hey Grimmy, always appreciate your posts -this was very informative. Why do you think some places get busted then? Is it due to complaints from locals or other businesses? Any thoughts on the kind of place or features of a place that makes it riskier for mongers?

No telling. Election time seemed to be a more common time for busts. February? Of each year is when Human Trafficking task forces do a nationwide enforcement.

Irvine many years ago, on McDurmott had a nice parlor, until as I recall some young attorneys moved in next door and was it a dry cleaners? Forget that detail, but they could hear the girls working or getting worked thru the walls. The attorneys sued landlords, called police, basically did it all to disrupt the parlor next door.

Lake Forest set their sights on Lake Forest Bodycentre. Recall, LF spent something like 400 k to shut down the parlor, which maybe only briefly shutdown, then sold or just another individual opened basically the same business in the same spot.

Details on this one, Korean lady, her son was into BMX racing or stunts. She bought a track and all. She had more than one parlor, in more than one city. She got to basically big time, and probably pissed someone off.

So, to sum up, why do some get busted, others not. Elections, pissing people off by too much traffic or not discreet enough, or just making too much money.

[LC310]

I'm posting this in response to the discussion in the MP thread about legal issues with MPs and posting "in code" on here as is commonplace with some people. As a reminder, I'm a legit spa owner so I know the legal landscape extremely well. There's a few things I can tell all of you.

1. Massage is not a licensed profession in California. In fact, California is the last remaining state that doesn't have a state massage license. What we have is a "certificate," and it is up to each individual city as to whether they want to require the certificate to practice massage or not. Most California jurisdictions do require the certificate. There are a few that only say one person on staff has to have the certificate and all of the other therapists are working under the CMT's supervision, but that's the fairly rare exception. The organization that issues the certificates is a civilian organization, not part of the government. As part of the process, they do vet massage schools and require a certain number of hours of instruction from a recognized massage school.

2. Since there is no California state massage board, regulation of massage establishments is entirely up to the individual cities. You can look up the municipal code for any city just by googling it. You will find that just about every city has a "massage establishments" section in their muni codes. Looking at that for any given city will tell you a lot. You will also find that a lot of cities just seem to copy their massage codes from other cities, as the language tends to be similar from city to city. Costa Mesa is one of the oddball ones that has weird rules that other cities don't have. Things like inward looking peepholes on the room doors, restrictions on light dimmers, and such.

3. One thing that is common is that by holding a massage establishment business license, you subject yourself to random inspections by either city officials or law enforcement. If either shows up, you cannot deny access. Therefore, law enforcement doesn't need to have a search warrant. They can just show up for their random inspection at any time unannounced and you have to give them access, and there has to be a manager on staff to provide them with any information that is needed. Some cities are far more strict on actually enforcing their muni codes than others. CM for example is a pain in the ass, even with massage establishments that are well known to be legit. Westminster doesn't really care that much.

4. The one thing I can say with 100% certainty is that city officials know full well what goes on in all of these places. They don't need to read USASG posts and sort through vague or coded language. They know who the jack shacks are, who the FS shops are, and exactly how things work. Some cities are tolerant of that and some aren't. I've posted before that I lived in Downey for a long time. I no longer live in Downey, but I had a cop in Downey tell me once that they have no interest in busting those places. They'd rather have that stuff going on in the MPs where it's contained, so long as the MPs don't become a nuisance. If they break up the MPs the end result is they just drive the sex work underground where it's harder to monitor and contain.

5. Once again, it doesn't take a LE sting to go after a MP. If a city wants a place shut down, there are 100 different ways they could do it without getting LE involved, and a lot of them can be done so quietly that the public won't even notice. It's not to say that MPs don't get busted, because we all know they do, but the main point is that speaking in code on here isn't going to prevent anyplace from getting busted.

Great informative post. You just have to look back to what happen in Inglewood back in 2007 or so when an investigation into a rape of a prostitute by cops and the Feds looking into SoCal MPs human trafficking turned up evidence that Inglewood cops were getting free sessions and sometimes while in uniform.

The cops and cities know exactly what is going on. It was a shame because many of those Inglewood MPs had Kgirl talent comparable to what the K-orgs have now. Oriental Acupressure on Manchester was probably the best of the bunch.

Net-Net is put the address in a review instead of a weird flex that you know more than the other guy.

[Moby Dirk]

I'm posting this in response to the discussion in the MP thread about legal issues with MPs and posting "in code" on here as is commonplace with some people. As a reminder, I'm a legit spa owner so I know the legal landscape extremely well. There's a few things I can tell all of you.

1. Massage is not a licensed profession in California. In fact, California is the last remaining state that doesn't have a state massage license. What we have is a "certificate," and it is up to each individual city as to whether they want to require the certificate to practice massage or not. Most California jurisdictions do require the certificate. There are a few that only say one person on staff has to have the certificate and all of the other therapists are working under the CMT's supervision, but that's the fairly rare exception. The organization that issues the certificates is a civilian organization, not part of the government. As part of the process, they do vet massage schools and require a certain number of hours of instruction from a recognized massage school.

2. Since there is no California state massage board, regulation of massage establishments is entirely up to the individual cities. You can look up the municipal code for any city just by googling it. You will find that just about every city has a "massage establishments" section in their muni codes. Looking at that for any given city will tell you a lot. You will also find that a lot of cities just seem to copy their massage codes from other cities, as the language tends to be similar from city to city. Costa Mesa is one of the oddball ones that has weird rules that other cities don't have. Things like inward looking peepholes on the room doors, restrictions on light dimmers, and such..

Hey Grimmy, always appreciate your posts -this was very informative. Why do you think some places get busted then? Is it due to complaints from locals or other businesses? Any thoughts on the kind of place or features of a place that makes it riskier for mongers?

[Grimmy23]

I'm posting this in response to the discussion in the MP thread about legal issues with MPs and posting "in code" on here as is commonplace with some people. As a reminder, I'm a legit spa owner so I know the legal landscape extremely well. There's a few things I can tell all of you.

1. Massage is not a licensed profession in California. In fact, California is the last remaining state that doesn't have a state massage license. What we have is a "certificate," and it is up to each individual city as to whether they want to require the certificate to practice massage or not. Most California jurisdictions do require the certificate. There are a few that only say one person on staff has to have the certificate and all of the other therapists are working under the CMT's supervision, but that's the fairly rare exception. The organization that issues the certificates is a civilian organization, not part of the government. As part of the process, they do vet massage schools and require a certain number of hours of instruction from a recognized massage school.

2. Since there is no California state massage board, regulation of massage establishments is entirely up to the individual cities. You can look up the municipal code for any city just by googling it. You will find that just about every city has a "massage establishments" section in their muni codes. Looking at that for any given city will tell you a lot. You will also find that a lot of cities just seem to copy their massage codes from other cities, as the language tends to be similar from city to city. Costa Mesa is one of the oddball ones that has weird rules that other cities don't have. Things like inward looking peepholes on the room doors, restrictions on light dimmers, and such.

3. One thing that is common is that by holding a massage establishment business license, you subject yourself to random inspections by either city officials or law enforcement. If either shows up, you cannot deny access. Therefore, law enforcement doesn't need to have a search warrant. They can just show up for their random inspection at any time unannounced and you have to give them access, and there has to be a manager on staff to provide them with any information that is needed. Some cities are far more strict on actually enforcing their muni codes than others. CM for example is a pain in the ass, even with massage establishments that are well known to be legit. Westminster doesn't really care that much.

4. The one thing I can say with 100% certainty is that city officials know full well what goes on in all of these places. They don't need to read USASG posts and sort through vague or coded language. They know who the jack shacks are, who the FS shops are, and exactly how things work. Some cities are tolerant of that and some aren't. I've posted before that I lived in Downey for a long time. I no longer live in Downey, but I had a cop in Downey tell me once that they have no interest in busting those places. They'd rather have that stuff going on in the MPs where it's contained, so long as the MPs don't become a nuisance. If they break up the MPs the end result is they just drive the sex work underground where it's harder to monitor and contain.

5. Once again, it doesn't take a LE sting to go after a MP. If a city wants a place shut down, there are 100 different ways they could do it without getting LE involved, and a lot of them can be done so quietly that the public won't even notice. It's not to say that MPs don't get busted, because we all know they do, but the main point is that speaking in code on here isn't going to prevent anyplace from getting busted.

[TheZorak]

The one time I need to go for a drive and waste my time, the Enclave crew isn't working LOL. It's been a couple days. I hope they're okay and it was just caution for the storm. The storm that was nothing but some rain and humidity. Their absence shows how much they contribute to the site. It'd be so empty and boring without them, sigh.

[PelicanT99]

I just left a major question post in the Viagra thread, a top level thread, not under any of the states, you can see it from the top menu level. I have come to trust many of you guys who post in this OC section and if you have any thoughts about what I just wrote, I'd be glad to read them.

Lift Her Up.

I don't know about high-level dosage, but when I started on 5 mg daily for BPE, and holy shit it was like I was 18 again. I'd started on testosterone gel for low T about a year before, and that helped "focus my attention" but I think that Cialis made me harder & maybe bigger than past few years. (T gel also had the unexpected benefit of easing aches & pains after exercise, which improves my mood & willingness to exercise.).

I would say, always consult an actual doctor before playing with medicines in your body. T gel is "like jet fuel for prostate cancer" per my doctor, and I must submit to regular probing to be sure it's not changing. Plus it makes it easier & cheaper to score the meds (my post insurance share of a 90 day Cialis Rx is like $20, although it's a "pre-approval" Rx and requires the doctor to jump some hoops).

[Lift Her Up]

I just left a major question post in the Viagra thread, a top level thread, not under any of the states, you can see it from the top menu level. I have come to trust many of you guys who post in this OC section and if you have any thoughts about what I just wrote, I'd be glad to read them.

Lift Her Up.

[DarkRoomDaddy]

The sex trafficking charges were total BS and Mei was incarcerated for three years before she was found not guilty.

What happened? Did it start with a LE sting, or did a girl claim to be a victim? I know for a fact that many immigrants are coached how to apply for green cards by playing the victim card. The problem with enforcement of this, is that we have a preformed picture in our heads, and we automatically assume its some nefarious trafficker taking advantage of innocent women. The truth of the matter is that most of these girls actively seek out this high paying profession. There are a few who act like they are doing something they don't like, but if you suggest to them to take some English classes and get a legit massage license or get out of the business, they never have the least amount of interest. They are in love. In love with the big money that dwarfs anything they might get from washing dishes, sewing tee shirts, or cleaning houses. My own theory is that US society has become anti-male. Just think of how many times you heard the terms toxic masculinity or patriarchy recently. By extension, no woman would want to willingly provide pleasurable services to men unless forced to do so, so they must be victims. But the upside is that most of Asia is much more male-friendly, and these shops would go out of business if our own society was more open to men and their sexual needs.

[StuDoctor]

There is a long article in the 8/5 issue of the LA Times about how Mei Xing, the owner of Sunshine, Rose Spa, Garvey Therapy and others in the SGV was found not guilty on federal trafficking charges. It starts on the front page and continues on two full pages inside. I suggest reading it.

Lift Her Up.

The sex trafficking charges were total BS and Mei was incarcerated for three years before she was found not guilty.

[Heartless Jay]

There is a long article in the 8/5 issue of the LA Times about how Mei Xing, the owner of Sunshine, Rose Spa, Garvey Therapy and others in the SGV was found not guilty on federal trafficking charges. It starts on the front page and continues on two full pages inside. I suggest reading it.

Lift Her Up.

I had read that story before, very enlightening. Several of the women who had accused MMS of trafficking them had come from other sex work jobs. Not really the innocent victims they claimed to have been.

[Lift Her Up]

There is a long article in the 8/5 issue of the LA Times about how Mei Xing, the owner of Sunshine, Rose Spa, Garvey Therapy and others in the SGV was found not guilty on federal trafficking charges. It starts on the front page and continues on two full pages inside. I suggest reading it.

Lift Her Up.