"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[FarFarAway]

Doc, (or anyone else), how do you personally manage that conversation? How do you let them know that the "sugar" is given only when sex happens? In my experience any conversation that explicitly states those terms rings the prostitute alarm in her head, and the whole interaction shuts down. Do you just avoid the topic altogether and assume they know the deal?

I've had a couple really, really attractive POTS, university students, who have essentially expected to be compensated their standard gift each time we get together, whether it's dinner etc only, or if we end up in the bedroom. I have a feeling they were hoping to steer the relationship toward more platonic dates than not, and cashing in for the simple job of existing in my presence.

One was a post-grad hippy who I met a couple times (coffee, and then dinner) and REALLY hit it of with. The conversation we had was intelligent and effortless, but the logistics weren't there for sex that night. She brought up sugar, and her expectations were pretty high. She wanted $400/ meet, agreed to $300, and said that a previous SD paid her $700/ meet. She also clarified that she expected sugar whether our date ended in the FC or not. I paid for dinner but didn't end up seeing her again; her terms felt too rich.

The other was a very cute asian freshman who had her act together, but she stated she wanted $12000 (basically her semester's tuition, and preferred I simply pay the bill instead of giving her the $) up front. Obviously this kind of arrangement has red flags all over it, and was probably a scam I'm sure she would have ended up ghosting after the bill was paid, and of course I would have no recourse. I was unable to negotiate her to a fairly significant per-meet allowance. I'm not even sure I have enough spare time in my life to have $12 K worth of sex over the course of a semester.

I think you need to develop better detectors of such GPS behavior so you don't waste time trying to get to the sugar conversation w / someone who is going to take this tack. I always discuss it in person, girls are much braver behind a computer screen. They don't want to be blown off, to their face, so they will be more conservative in requests. I also tell them I am looking for ongoing w / a monthly 'once trust is established', and propose an initial meet 'at extra sugar' just to make sure we are compatible. It is your job to educate them about practices, who knows how they get these ideas in their head. I have had girls swear to me their GFs got a house (in California) and car from their SDs. I don't believe it, but even if true, it doesn't matter, b / c I can't do it, not the least reason being I have a SO.

Of course, never accept what a girl claims about her past experience. It might be true, but point out it doesn't matter. If she could get that, she should go back to her old SD, b / c you aren't that wealthy. Recommended by my bowl buddy TomDickHarry, I ask them about their needs, never their wants. I had one POT who came back w / a laundry list of things. My reply was that I was trying to have an arrangement w / her, not adopt her. LOL. If any girl gives a hint of words like 'don't waste my time', it indicates she has high expectations, and you'd best move on.

[Kwagmire]

For this to work, [negotiating/giving sugar only once the panties hit the floor] you should be seen as trustable by girls, you have to be patient and disciplined not to hand out allowance until panties hit the floor. May be it is rare, but it worked for me.

Doc, (or anyone else), how do you personally manage that conversation? How do you let them know that the "sugar" is given only when sex happens? In my experience any conversation that explicitly states those terms rings the prostitute alarm in her head, and the whole interaction shuts down. Do you just avoid the topic altogether and assume they know the deal?

I've had a few really, really attractive POTS, university students, who have essentially expected to be compensated their standard gift each time we get together, whether it's dinner etc only, or if we end up in the bedroom. I have a feeling they were hoping to steer the relationship toward more platonic dates than not, and cashing in for the simple job of existing in my presence.

One was a post-grad hippy who I met a couple times (coffee, and then dinner) and REALLY hit it of with. The conversation we had was intelligent and effortless, but the logistics weren't there for sex that night. She brought up sugar, and her expectations were pretty high. She wanted $400/ meet, agreed to $300, and said that a previous SD paid her $700/ meet. She also clarified that she expected sugar whether our date ended in the FC or not. I paid for dinner but didn't end up seeing her again; her terms felt too rich.

Another was a very cute asian freshman who had her act together, but she stated she wanted $12000 (basically her semester's tuition, and preferred I simply pay the bill instead of giving her the $) up front. Obviously this kind of arrangement has red flags all over it, and was probably a scam. I'm sure she would have ended up ghosting after the bill was paid, and of course I would have no recourse. I was unable to negotiate her to a fairly significant per-meet allowance. I'm not even sure I have enough spare time in my life to have $12 K worth of sex over the course of a semester.

A third was a POT I met on a business trip in a location I frequent. She was young and very pretty, and again, effortless intelligent conversation, but wanted $500/meet. I thought, doable for me as a business trip treat, and the way things were going it seemed as if she would be more than willing to spend the entire night when we got together. I saw her three times on an extended trip and based on how well we were hitting it off, offered sugar on the third date, expecting we would end up back at my hotel. She very deftly avoided the opportunity for sex to happen. When I gave her $200 in an effort to be seen as a trustworthy SD even though in hindsight she manipulated the schedule and her availability to avoid the FC, even though she knew my hopes and expectations for the evening, she was pissed and blocked me on SA.

[Fubar69]

I did a M&G with her (no charge) which led to us going back to her private FC for about an hour of fun. Pretty girl with a wonderful all natural rack. She seemed a bit rushed, wasn't into the session as much as I prefer, and isn't as slim as her profile and picture

I met her awhile back. She has gained weight recently. Great rack but kills the mood by rushing. She will tell you what she expects right off the bat. I saw her a couple of times but too pricey for what you get IMHO. Better options out there.

[CoolPix]

I have been talking with this one a bit ago and was going to post this note couple of days ago, but have been out of town and just got back.

I have a knack for teasing out details before I pull the trigger and I have very set parameters for a M&G IF needed and will never go past the point.

Man, that was a long post without any real info on Miss Uncomplicated!

I did a M&G with her (no charge) which led to us going back to her private FC for about an hour of fun. Pretty girl with a wonderful all natural rack. She seemed a bit rushed, wasn't into the session as much as I prefer, and isn't as slim as her profile and picture project.

To each his own, but I much prefer the gals I've found on SA over anyone I've met elsewhere, especially SWs.

[MrDisDat]

https://www.seekingarrangement.com/m...3-5caa8b6b17a9

Any information on her? Currently talking to her but her spproach for allowance and lists of "Don'ts" just turned me off!

[MrDisDat]

https://www.seekingarrangement.com/m...e-91af7c837e75

She and I have been talking but she's proofing a bit elusive for my liking. For some reason the littleman won't allow me give in. Any one yet?

[NeoDude]

She just sent me an offer for 150 through WYP today. I have no public photo there and a bio only saying looking for fun. But I still get out of the blue offers for dates. So I am guessing she is a pro like many on there in recent months.

I have been talking with this one a bit ago and was going to post this note couple of days ago, but have been out of town and just got back.

I have a knack for teasing out details before I pull the trigger and I have very set parameters for a M&G IF needed and will never go past the point.

First of all, what is a traditional SD / SB? - for me this is where you see SB routinely, and I mean every week for FC, sleep overs, then travel on occasion, and "dates" to fun places.

This is not something you will get for under $15 K allowance a yr, and if you are expecting some sort of exclusivity you are looking at a something over 20 K.

Does not mean you cannot have a good FC run at reasonable cost. But those are SW (sex workers) - call them any other politically correct name you wish, or entertain their.

Fanciful notions of how the world works revolving around their GPS.

So where are these SB found? I know some and have had several 1 year trysts, so I know they come from 2 places.

1 is from the pool of LVP that expect 4 ben or more a pop. Not something you want to do routinely, and if you do it 1/ month or less frequently with same SW, you are getting played.

If never done it, I would recommend once in a while to see what real skill is. These are mesmerizing creatures. With chemistry, personality, and good negotiations, they come way down.

And can be converted to SB. Probably not happening in a small burg such as RVA.

2 is possible from SA.

Note that real sugar babies that are 10 model material and have professional careers are NEVER on SA. There are websites that are like match services and cost a ton of money to join.

AND your finances and bonafides are verified. This looks like matchmaking and is for guys with real bucks to burn. Out of my league but have first hand info from the ladies on this from pillow talk.

So back to this one. I am by no means knocking her. She has friends on SA and they all compare notes on us and expect $150-$200 for a M&G and no FC.

They are finding you on WYP also (different handles. Same pics) and sending cold offers for $150 or more depending on what is in your profile.

They will promise you and tell you all kinds of stories about how looking for the one guy and their circumstances.

They will lecture you on FOFST and that they are not prostitutes. I am sure they are getting this kind of cash, and if can keep this up why would they ever want to put out?

Think about it.

Huge red flags that immediately disqualify.

A. any mention that they are not prostitutes. Is a sure sign they are only looking for your donation and there is nothing in return for you.

Any decent pot SB will NEVER utter that word to you and sure as hell not write it in a text or DM.

B. if a M&G involves dinner. Asking for more than a token amount of money to truly cover expenses of gas, parking, getting something nice to add to clothes collection, and makeup is a sign.

They do not understand what a long term investment we are potentially offering, and what we expect in return, so they are either not smart enough or not really interested. And neither qualifies.

C. any comparison to what she typically gets, or belittlement of your approach or offer. This is sign that they know you are slipping off the hook and want to jerk you back and haul you in for a quick cash score.

There are many options in the bowl. Currently I see mostly only SW and nothing wrong with that.

Or scammers (I may be harsh but after all, a promise knowingly that will not be kept is sort of a definition of a scam in my book).

Other than that, discipline and patience will pay off when you score what you are looking for.

[Cephlapod Love]

If they won't to go after pimps and those forcing people into prostitution, or traffickers, etc etc, have at it, but some young woman who wants to boost her income by having a sugar daddy? It should be nobody's business.

Not to reiterate history, but I think that is EXACTLY why the new law was enacted. BP was THE primary market place for pimped and trafficked girls and in fact facilitated such. IF BP had been proactive and acted on the many suggestions given to BP over the years to curb the trafficking on its website, it would still be around and the law would never have passed. But hey, those guys were greedy and didn't want to do anything that would curtail their $100 MM per year in PROFITS! They were so tone deaf and egregious that the only way to stop them was the new law.

After all the Law is called FOSTA = Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act, and SESTA = Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act of 2017. It has nothing to do with legislating morality, your bedroom, etc.

For me, this whole thing is an illustration of how Gubmint works. It doesn't go out of its way to get in the way, but it sure does react when something gets REALLY bad. So IF Gubmint comes to you and suggests you are on the fringe of the law, might make some sense to look around and see if one can get out of their cross-hairs. But hey, repeatedly thumb yer nose at them and one will find out how over reaching they can be.

I'm just sayin'.

[EvilTmp]

Just to add another data point to the SA adventure, almost all girls that aren't "platonic only" (I. E. Sex-averse) are on Tinder in my area. They use some of the same pics so they're easy to identify. Keep that in mind next time you get the "I know my worth" or "I'm not that kind of girl" speech. So no, yes. You don't know and you are that kind.

[DrSummer]

Spot on on almost everything. I agree that almost every girl on SA can be taken to FC given the right amount regardless how attractive or not I am (obviously you have to have some standards of hygiene with you). But I found a small percentage (may be less than 10% of girls on SA) of girls genuinely don't want to sleep on the first date. The key is managing the "degree of her psychological damage" you mentioned. When I find them, I am willing to try several dates with them before going to FC. I do that ONLY with girls who never mention about the allowance until I am willing to give it. I have very strict rules regarding allowance. No allowance for M&G, or any dates not ending up in FC (I pay for dinner etc only, no shopping, other gifts etc). Basically allowance is given after the panties hit the floor and stay there for at least 2 hours. I have found two gems using that approach (a 23 year old recent graduate with no permanent job, a 30 yr old single mom). Both were taken to FC on third date, and found to be fireballs in bed, and one of them I see regularly. The total spend was less than 100 before FC date for each girl. For this to work, you should be seen as trustable by girls, you have to be patient and disciplined not to hand out allowance until panties hit the floor. May be it is rare, but it worked for me.

Stay Safe.

Dr. S.

I think all women on SA and WYP know exactly what a man means by and thinks a "traditional sugar daddy / sugar baby arrangement" is and what a man wants from a "mutually beneficial relationship". Additionally, I also think all women on SA are OPEN to the idea of fucking for money. The cold, hard truth of the matter is that she might not be open to fucking YOU for money.

The women on straight up transactional sites like the former Backpage know they've signed up for the deal where they'll fuck anyone that comes along for money because the monkey on their back is bigger than their desire to not screw an old, ugly, smelly fat guy. They have an immediate need that needs filling, which is their next fix, or if not that, they're so close to the edge financially that they can't afford to be choosy. If you happen to call and turn out to not be disgusting, bonus for her.

The women on SA are in the middle: they're more than willing to fuck for money, but since they aren't desperate (I. E. , don't have a drug problem and aren't about to be homeless or something similar) they're most interested in fucking a successful, wealthy, attractive, powerful man who will ideally fund their day-to-day bills / tuition / designer shoe habit AND mentor them and pave their way to success in life, or some sliding-scale variant of the above. The degree to which she's willing to compromise on this ideal is dependent on a mixture of her own estimation of her attractiveness / SMV, the level of her self esteem, and the degree of her psychological damage. Her horniness level plays only a minute percentage of this algorithm, since an attractive woman can get laid any day of the week she wants.

Men who are and can actually do the above things, to the level a PYT with a princess mindset desires, are few and far between, and even fewer of those are active on SA, making for some slim pickings. This is where the alleged "misinterpretation" of vocabulary comes along. Women on SA know they have to meet up with men to actually see what degree he fits to her ideal above, but the "misinterpretation" and her ability to shame you for even thinking that "she'd sell herself like that" give her the plausible deniability she needs to go out on meet and greets. Additionally, she knows there are some men out there who are rich and / or naive enough to actually pay for a meet and greet or for a few platonic "dates" because "I'm not the kind of girl who sleeps with someone on the first date". (Cough, cough YES, she is. Just not with YOU). If you hear this kind of BS from a woman, best to cut your losses early.

This is why a smart man refuses to pay for meet and greets, and only offers a gift "once the panties hit the floor" and also realizes that a certain amount of game and attractiveness / hygiene is necessary to get these women. In the SA arena, you've got to play your part and channel your inner Richard Gere, even if you're faking it. In addition to "showing her the money" you have to "manage her feelings" while doing it. Sadly, managing her feelings usually increases costs for men.

I personally think she makes the decision on whether she's willing to fuck or not in the first 5 minutes of meeting you, and if she has a "rinsing" mindset, if you're not totally undesirable, she may see how much she can get out of you before you decide that paying for nothing isn't worth it any more.

[GoneForDays]

She's a nurse, but she's also very friendly, if you know what I mean.

https://www.seekingarrangement.com/m...b-efd922056222

Anyone who has recent dealings with this one and can share, please send me a PM. Thanks.

[ChrisCarr]

Hey all,

http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/show...=1#post3832966

You can read my experience there. Long story short, if they have proof that you discussed money for sex acts they can and will arrest you. If you go playing with streetwalkers and nab a popo it is not entrapment as you are likely "in an area known for prostitution". Even if you beat the charge you are still going to take the ride.

With that, this bish played me using the facts above. I no longer discuss $ electronically. If they don't sense you are looking for p4 p they will move on to 1 of the hundreds of others who will bite rather than waste time on you. I'm starting to reply to these girls "you are a cop" whenever they open up with a p4p offer. Yes my hit rate is going down, but the drive home after that encounter had me thinking hard about what I want from the hobby, what I'm willing to lose, and how I have to protect myself going forward. Actually reading the RVA SA board is a good start LOL.

If that had been a real cop (and she may have been, lucky day for me) I'd be in a very different and unhappy place.

Sorry for the late response guys. Sometimes this hobby can be more of a part time job. LOL! So according to my buddy, he has been talking to this lady on SA (she has removed her account) and things appears to be going well. There was a red flag but he was clearly excited over the prospect of meeting this hot looking lady that he was already discussing meeting. First mistake was to start discussing money and payment without first meeting her in person. She initiated payment for $350 for allowance as Pay per meet. On the day before they met I advised him to make sure they met at a restaurant just to be sure she's the person in the picture. She refused but eventually agreed to meet him at a restaurant in Reston VA. According to him she continue to bring about money and he continue with the conversation. They agreed to have the encounter at her place. In the process of going to her place, she said she came with uber so he will just give her a ride to her place. When they got to his car, she asked for the money and he handed it over to her, she identify herself as a cop and two other plain clothes officers appeared and told him they have on tape discussing with the female cop and the money is evidence. This is a very dangerous game guys, I don't discuss money with anyone. Ever! I have a way of handling women. My first rule of thump is to ensure that I am safe. I don't meet a woman without first having a casual date. I have some very serious conversation to feel the person. I talk about getting you gift cards and say let's have some adult fun and I will take care of you. I will literally continue to say that I don't pay sex but I don't mind getting you some valuable gift cards for you to look more beautiful but I am not discussing cash payment for sex EVER! I don't show money until after an encounter and we are both ready to leave. I leave the money in a draw and leave the drawer open and just say if you see anything you liked in the draw you can have it.

[DirtyDeeds38]

Sorry for the late response guys. Sometimes this hobby can be more of a part time job. LOL! So according to my buddy, he has been talking to this lady on SA (she has removed her account) and things appears to be going well. There was a red flag but he was clearly excited over the prospect of meeting this hot looking lady that he was already discussing meeting. First mistake was to start discussing money and payment without first meeting her in person. She initiated payment for $350 for allowance as Pay per meet. On the day before they met I advised him to make sure they met at a restaurant just to be sure she's the person in the picture. She refused but eventually agreed to meet him at a restaurant in Reston VA. According to him she continue to bring about money and he continue with the conversation. They agreed to have the encounter at her place. In the process of going to her place, she said she came with uber so he will just give her a ride to her place. When they got to his car, she asked for the money and he handed it over to her, she identify herself as a cop and two other plain clothes officers appeared and told him they have on tape discussing with the female cop and the money is evidence. This is a very dangerous game guys, I don't discuss money with anyone. Ever! I have a way of handling women. My first rule of thump is to ensure that I am safe. I don't meet a woman without first having a casual date. I have some very serious conversation to feel the person. I talk about getting you gift cards and say let's have some adult fun and I will take care of you. I will literally continue to say that I don't pay sex but I don't mind getting you some valuable gift cards for you to look more beautiful but I am not discussing cash payment for sex EVER! I don't show money until after an encounter and we are both ready to leave. I leave the money in a draw and leave the drawer open and just say if you see anything you liked in the draw you can have it.

If this sequence of events really and truly played out like your story, than this is entrapment. It is not solicitation by him. She brought up the money and pushed it and tied it in to a sexual encounter. Unless he literally told her at some point, "I am willing to give you $350 for sex" or some sex act, then she entrapped him. A good lawyer will get this stupid shit tossed out. But who wants to go through all that? This is insane to me, that they don; t have anything better to do then shake down some lonely sugar daddy. Can you imagine the service they could have provided to the community tending to other things with those resources and time spent to pop a lonely ole sugar daddy for a misdemeanor charge?

[CantWinLosin]

More importantly, has anyone seen her LOL. She looks hot.

We had a quick M&G to make sure we're on the same page. Body as advertised, from what I could tell with her clothed (sight, and feel during the hug), slender and a great shape tho' not quite a hardbody, with great tits. Face is really cute, tho' not what I'd call "beautiful", but she certainly won't break any mirrors. Her voice is very soft, high and kinda squeaky / mousy, with a Georgia drawl. She comes across in person as sort of ditzy; dunno if that's real or just an act from the little time I spent with her, but I suspect it's at least a little bit of an act because she doesn't come across that way in text / email. She says she's looking for just one SD for ongoing, but from the discussion here it sounds like she's done more tryouts than anything else.

We have an FC date for next week. More after that.

[Ernest Ll]

Sam's Club sells Hotels.com gift cards (the physical ones) so I throw one in with my business purchases to have on hand. They are very good for my day trips to other cities where the whole name / address check in thing is not a big deal.

When why ou play locally, some genius might ask why you are staying at a hotel.

1) I recently moved, back for a visit and haven't updated DL.

2) House in getting bathroom renovated and I have not water fro 24 h ours.

3) None of your fucking business.

Alternatively, I have gone in person and booked a room and said "Its for an employee flying in for a big presentation, and she is coming straight from a long flight to change and freshen up" and I'm picking her up at the airport so she can just go straight to the room.

Some SBs have been fine telling me their real name so I book the room in their name -- might be trickier with youngen's who might not understand if they take a CC at check in, its for incidentals and nothing will be charged.

Even better, my current SB books the hotel in her name and I either reimburse her as part of her gift or make sure she always has a hotels.com gift card or two.

Brothers,

For those of you in the sugar game seeking a bit more anonymity, I thought I would share the hotel booking technique I've been utilizing as of late.

If you're worrying about a hotel charge appearing on the bank statement or about the drama of paying "cash" at the hotel or a way to alter the name on your actual hotel bill. This method might work for you.

Here are the only things you need:

1. A burner Amazon.com Account.

2. A burner email account.

3. Access to hotels.com.

Amazon offers e-gift cards for Hotels.com that are sent directly to an email address of your choosing upon purchase. Simply choose the amount you want on the card and purchase the Hotels.com e-gift card (please make sure it is the E-GIFT card and not the physical one). Then check your burner email account for the e-gift card and then go to Hotels.com to book the stay.

Note, I typically go to Hotels.com and identify the room I want first and it will tell you to the exact penny how much you need including taxes.

The beauty in this is that on your monthly credit card statement the charge will appear like a normal Amazon transaction and since it is a BURNER Amazon account the purchase history is only for your eyes to see. Note, make sure you don't use the family Amazon account.

Lastly, one of the biggest advantages of booking through Hotels.com using the e-gift card is because you can put in whatever name you want on the reservation booking. This is pure gold. I typically use my "real" last name but I put in a false first name and a false street address.

When you go to check-in at the property this is the information that shows. I have had a couple of "overachieving" hotel staff ask for my license and try to correct the reservation, but I simply say something like "This is a business reservation and my company's payroll department knows me by my middle name so changing it would cause too much confusion trying to get reimbursed" Blah. Blah. I also use this time to make sure the staff has my fake address listed on the reservation. This minor detail ensures that if the receipt is slid under the door in the morning and you're caught slipping and your SB happens to see it, your fake name and fake address will be the only thing that appears.

I haven't run into any issues using this method. But to recap, you must account for the following things.

1. Burner Amazon. Do not forget to log out of family account.

2. When the hotel clerk asks for your driver's license make sure they don't overachieve and try to retype info.

3. Ensure the hotel receipt will appear to your liking during checkout.

Once again, no issues to this approach yet, but I bring it to the group to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Ripper.