"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[MrDisDat]

Kwagmire: One of the best post in the last several months.

This should be required reading for any new SD (and some slow-witted experienced ones). As I've said on here, she knows within 5 seconds of meeting you if she's attracted to you. Why the hell would you meet for hours and hours over dinner and long dates? All girls on SA know the deal: the ones that don't belong there and can't stomach older guys write "platonic only". Even them know the deal but aren't willing to pony up their part of the deal so yes, they all know what's expected. Long dates? Fancy dinners? Trips? Are all earned benefits. I've done them all many times. You do that when you know what you have in your hands and she's worth it, not as some free enticement to meet and greet.

And yes if she's on SA she is the kind of girl that sleeps with guys on the first or second meet. It just happens that it might not be with YOU. Any story along the lines "I'm not that kind of girl" is her playing you and thinking you're a sucker.

There are some girls who are genuinely attracted to older guys (trust me, I know) but for each one of those there's 20 girls who see desperate, sad, lonely guys there for the plucking.

Some of you need to stop being such chumps and wake the fuck up.

Well said my friend, well said. I have been in positions where I know if the girl is into me or not. It's true, there are women I have met on SA and we fucked he same night while there are others who I just know is all about the money. I had a date with a young girl for lunch and we appeared to hit it off instantly (at least that's how she appears to behave or my dumb ass mind told me). But we communicate until after couple of hours and she asked me for money for something to purchase. I politely declined that I don't have the budget to render any assistance. Few days goes by and she wants a movie date. In my mind, she's been friendly and has other motives. We both know why we are on SA so should I be wasting my time on these dates? Sometimes you have to see the sheep from a distance, cut your losses and bounce!

[MrDisDat]

Can you (or him, for that matter) be a little more specific? How did the interaction / negotiation go down? Were there any red flags he should have noticed / heeded in hindsight?

Sorry for the late response guys. Sometimes this hobby can be more of a part time job. LOL! So according to my buddy, he has been talking to this lady on SA (she has removed her account) and things appears to be going well. There was a red flag but he was clearly excited over the prospect of meeting this hot looking lady that he was already discussing meeting. First mistake was to start discussing money and payment without first meeting her in person. She initiated payment for $350 for allowance as Pay per meet. On the day before they met I advised him to make sure they met at a restaurant just to be sure she's the person in the picture. She refused but eventually agreed to meet him at a restaurant in Reston VA. According to him she continue to bring about money and he continue with the conversation. They agreed to have the encounter at her place. In the process of going to her place, she said she came with uber so he will just give her a ride to her place. When they got to his car, she asked for the money and he handed it over to her, she identify herself as a cop and two other plain clothes officers appeared and told him they have on tape discussing with the female cop and the money is evidence. This is a very dangerous game guys, I don't discuss money with anyone. Ever! I have a way of handling women. My first rule of thump is to ensure that I am safe. I don't meet a woman without first having a casual date. I have some very serious conversation to feel the person. I talk about getting you gift cards and say let's have some adult fun and I will take care of you. I will literally continue to say that I don't pay sex but I don't mind getting you some valuable gift cards for you to look more beautiful but I am not discussing cash payment for sex EVER! I don't show money until after an encounter and we are both ready to leave. I leave the money in a draw and leave the drawer open and just say if you see anything you liked in the draw you can have it.

[MrDisDat]

The link is broken. What's her screen name?

Sorry about that guys. Here you go: https://www.seekingarrangement.com/m...b-66b38777f00a.

[CantWinLosin]

More importantly, has anyone seen her LOL. She looks hot.

I'll let you know.

[Ripvan12]

Brothers,

For those of you in the sugar game seeking a bit more anonymity, I thought I would share the hotel booking technique I've been utilizing as of late.

If you're worrying about a hotel charge appearing on the bank statement or about the drama of paying "cash" at the hotel or a way to alter the name on your actual hotel bill. This method might work for you.

Here are the only things you need:

1. A burner Amazon.com Account.

2. A burner email account.

3. Access to hotels.com.

Amazon offers e-gift cards for Hotels.com that are sent directly to an email address of your choosing upon purchase. Simply choose the amount you want on the card and purchase the Hotels.com e-gift card (please make sure it is the E-GIFT card and not the physical one). Then check your burner email account for the e-gift card and then go to Hotels.com to book the stay.

Note, I typically go to Hotels.com and identify the room I want first and it will tell you to the exact penny how much you need including taxes.

The beauty in this is that on your monthly credit card statement the charge will appear like a normal Amazon transaction and since it is a BURNER Amazon account the purchase history is only for your eyes to see. Note, make sure you don't use the family Amazon account.

Lastly, one of the biggest advantages of booking through Hotels.com using the e-gift card is because you can put in whatever name you want on the reservation booking. This is pure gold. I typically use my "real" last name but I put in a false first name and a false street address.

When you go to check-in at the property this is the information that shows. I have had a couple of "overachieving" hotel staff ask for my license and try to correct the reservation, but I simply say something like "This is a business reservation and my company's payroll department knows me by my middle name so changing it would cause too much confusion trying to get reimbursed" Blah. Blah. I also use this time to make sure the staff has my fake address listed on the reservation. This minor detail ensures that if the receipt is slid under the door in the morning and you're caught slipping and your SB happens to see it, your fake name and fake address will be the only thing that appears.

I haven't run into any issues using this method. But to recap, you must account for the following things.

1. Burner Amazon. Do not forget to log out of family account.

2. When the hotel clerk asks for your driver's license make sure they don't overachieve and try to retype info.

3. Ensure the hotel receipt will appear to your liking during checkout.

Once again, no issues to this approach yet, but I bring it to the group to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Ripper.

[Admin2]

I read an attorney's forum a while back where you ask attorneys questions and one of the questions posed was about whether they see sugar dating being shut down in the future and all the attorneys agreed, the government would not be able to shut it down, as giving money for companionship, or as a gift was not illegal. Unless you specify sex for money, it's not illegal.

So then they will change the law. In the USA you used to be responsible for the words you put on a site like this, then they changed the law. You used to be able to just talk about hookers, then they changed the law. I would say that there should be a challenge but given the court you guys have probably not.

Doesn't mean it's going to end. I love how Americans always think they can legislate morality. It's not called the oldest profession in the world for nothing and the civilized world, minus one country thinks adults should be able to do what they want.

[DirtyDeeds38]

SB's are hookers, doesn't matter how you talk about it, they are taking money for fucking. The SA sites are delusional if they think they are different than backpage.

A2

I agree and in sense all women are hookers. LOL. I'm just looking at it from a legal persecutive and the wording of the way prostitution laws are written and formed. You have to name a sex act for a price for it to be postitution, or directly perform sex acts for money with full proof this is exactly what it is for.

I read an attorney's forum a while back where you ask attorneys questions and one of the questions posed was about whether they see sugar dating being shut down in the future and all the attorneys agreed, the government would not be able to shut it down, as giving money for companionship, or as a gift was not illegal. Unless you specify sex for money, it's not illegal. If you want to give a woman money for her time, or whatever, it's your business. I think these grey areas really bring into the light just how stupid it is for the government to try and stick their noses in people's bedrooms and governing what someone does consensually with their body. If they won't to go after pimps and those forcing people into prostitution, or traffickers, etc etc, have at it, but some young woman who wants to boost her income by having a sugar daddy? It should be nobody's business.

[EvilTmp]

Kwagmire: One of the best post in the last several months.

This should be required reading for any new SD (and some slow-witted experienced ones). As I've said on here, she knows within 5 seconds of meeting you if she's attracted to you. Why the hell would you meet for hours and hours over dinner and long dates? All girls on SA know the deal: the ones that don't belong there and can't stomach older guys write "platonic only". Even them know the deal but aren't willing to pony up their part of the deal so yes, they all know what's expected. Long dates? Fancy dinners? Trips? Are all earned benefits. I've done them all many times. You do that when you know what you have in your hands and she's worth it, not as some free enticement to meet and greet.

And yes if she's on SA she is the kind of girl that sleeps with guys on the first or second meet. It just happens that it might not be with YOU. Any story along the lines "I'm not that kind of girl" is her playing you and thinking you're a sucker.

There are some girls who are genuinely attracted to older guys (trust me, I know) but for each one of those there's 20 girls who see desperate, sad, lonely guys there for the plucking.

Some of you need to stop being such chumps and wake the fuck up.

I think all women on SA and WYP know exactly what a man means by and thinks a "traditional sugar daddy / sugar baby arrangement" is and what a man wants from a "mutually beneficial relationship". Additionally, I also think all women on SA are OPEN to the idea of fucking for money. The cold, hard truth of the matter is that she might not be open to fucking YOU for money.
......
Men who are and can actually do the above things, to the level a PYT with a princess mindset desires, are few and far between, and even fewer of those are active on SA, making for some slim pickings. This is where the alleged "misinterpretation" of vocabulary comes along. Women on SA know they have to meet up with men to actually see what degree he fits to her ideal above, but the "misinterpretation" and her ability to shame you for even thinking that "she'd sell herself like that" give her the plausible deniability she needs to go out on meet and greets. Additionally, she knows there are some men out there who are rich and / or naive enough to actually pay for a meet and greet or for a few platonic "dates" because "I'm not the kind of girl who sleeps with someone on the first date". (Cough, cough YES, she is. Just not with YOU). If you hear this kind of BS from a woman, best to cut your losses early.
....
I personally think she makes the decision on whether she's willing to fuck or not in the first 5 minutes of meeting you, and if she has a "rinsing" mindset, if you're not totally undesirable, she may see how much she can get out of you before you decide that paying for nothing isn't worth it any more.

[Madaboutmax]

You may be correct, but I'm glad there are many very attractive young women willing to be SB's that would never consider themselves to be escorts or go on backpage. Overnights and multiple rounds with less cost than a typical back page girl for an hour.

Let me live in my fantasy world!! LOL.

SB's are hookers, doesn't matter how you talk about it, they are taking money for fucking. The SA sites are delusional if they think they are different than backpage.

A2

[RVASpider]

I dreamed about this one and we agreed a time to meet. She is in the Richmond area so we agreed on meeting halfway. Booked a 3-star venue and we made it happen. However, not without some drama and never asked for anything. Just wanted to get laid. If you can get past the plenty talking, hit her up.

https://www.seekingarrangement.com/m...b-66b38777f00a

Any one experience her yet? Please post.

The link is broken. What's her screen name?

[MrDisDat]

I dreamed about this one and we agreed a time to meet. She is in the Richmond area so we agreed on meeting halfway. Booked a 3-star venue and we made it happen. However, not without some drama and never asked for anything. Just wanted to get laid. If you can get past the plenty talking, hit her up.

https://www.seekingarrangement.com/m...b-66b38777f00a

Any one experience her yet? Please post.

[MrDisDat]

In my mind's interpretation, the word "traditional" combined with "relationship" would typically mean the "older man / younger mistress" situation, where he has a wife in another town and keeps the SB in an apartment or some other situation for regular fucking and financial support. To me, relationship is the more important of the two words, and in my experience with women when they inject that word in, they are usually implying something in particular that involves some level of emotional support or attachment.

Problem is, women are all over the place with the notion of "what they want" and it changes faster than the weather. What they meant when they wrote their profile, and what they mean when explaining it later may or may not be remotely related.

You hit the hammer on the nail. I am experiencing that a lot with some the SA arrangements. Ladies would write on their profile what they are looking for (NSA / FWB) and they meet in person or after a few encounter, they start to bring in their feelings into the arrangement. I can't deal with that stuff. I have had to brutally cut people off. Woman, if I want an emotional relationship, I know where to find one. That brings me to another issue of how much information you can allowed an SB to know about you. Watch your email and phone numbers. And if you meet in 3-star rendezvous, please guys, leave your personal stuff in your car. I nearly got fucked recently by an SB but I wasn't thinking with m why head when she asked me asked me get her something to eat from the nearby 7-11 (SMDH at my dumb at $$) but she was able to get some info on my because she's now addressing me by full name! I have since cut her lose.

Careful people and always watch your six!

[DirtyDeeds38]

Just be careful when discussing roses with these "SBs" as I have buddy who got burned by a female cop. His encounter is not one you any monger wants to experience. Careful guys with these arrangements, always follow your heart and be safe!

What worries me most of LEO moving into the SB dating arena, is that they are likely trying to make a few busts so they than can use this bogus new FOSTA law to go after websites that are still clinging to life like SA. We can only do our part by NEVER discussing sex acts for money with any SB, period. Do that when she is alone with you and even then, don't address is as, "I'll give you this and you do that. " Just stick with the term allowance and for your companionship, etc. If you do not describe a sex act with a price attached, there is nothing they can do! It still blows my mind, with LE wants to get mixed up with every form of human companionship. Times need to change, we are going back-ass backwards in this country!

Sugar dating is the best thing that has ever happened to me. I'm totally into and love the game. So do many of the girls. It can be a great hobby and actual way of life for many of us men getting to those middle years. The years when you still got some game left, but time is not on your side. If e all don; t play the game right and weed out the actually hookers on there, they will shut down SA and like sites as well. I have no issues with P4 P, but we have to know there are laws out there, just waiting to say, "it's prostitution" So they do one of their "save us from ourselves" campaigns and shut down all sugar dating. You know it's coming.

SB's are hookers, doesn't matter how you talk about it, they are taking money for fucking. The SA sites are delusional if they think they are different than backpage.

A2

[Kwagmire]

Well, answers from girls were all over the place. Few below:

"You give me allowance, I go with you for dinner and movies".

"We have good time, and you give me allowance". Further follow up confirmed she is Ok with intimacy.

"Exchange money for companionship". Further follow up confirmed she is not Ok with intimacy.

In my experience, even the term "mutually beneficial arrangement" is misinterpreted (especially girls 18-22), Almost sure thing I have confirmed is when they say "You help me, I help you". That always means she is ready for it. Then the term "intimacy" is not a sure shot either. One time, a girl was asking for a unreasonable allowance, so I wanted to find out what was in the store. She responded "sure thing" for the question on intimacy. When I asked what specifically we are going to do, she came up with "non-penetrational sex". Ok, I digged deeper. For her, intimacy is giving me a hand job. Go figure.

Stay Safe.

Dr. S.

I think all women on SA and WYP know exactly what a man means by and thinks a "traditional sugar daddy / sugar baby arrangement" is and what a man wants from a "mutually beneficial relationship". Additionally, I also think all women on SA are OPEN to the idea of fucking for money. The cold, hard truth of the matter is that she might not be open to fucking YOU for money.

The women on straight up transactional sites like the former Backpage know they've signed up for the deal where they'll fuck anyone that comes along for money because the monkey on their back is bigger than their desire to not screw an old, ugly, smelly fat guy. They have an immediate need that needs filling, which is their next fix, or if not that, they're so close to the edge financially that they can't afford to be choosy. If you happen to call and turn out to not be disgusting, bonus for her.

The women on SA are in the middle: they're more than willing to fuck for money, but since they aren't desperate (I. E. , don't have a drug problem and aren't about to be homeless or something similar) they're most interested in fucking a successful, wealthy, attractive, powerful man who will ideally fund their day-to-day bills / tuition / designer shoe habit AND mentor them and pave their way to success in life, or some sliding-scale variant of the above. The degree to which she's willing to compromise on this ideal is dependent on a mixture of her own estimation of her attractiveness / SMV, the level of her self esteem, and the degree of her psychological damage. Her horniness level plays only a minute percentage of this algorithm, since an attractive woman can get laid any day of the week she wants.

Men who are and can actually do the above things, to the level a PYT with a princess mindset desires, are few and far between, and even fewer of those are active on SA, making for some slim pickings. This is where the alleged "misinterpretation" of vocabulary comes along. Women on SA know they have to meet up with men to actually see what degree he fits to her ideal above, but the "misinterpretation" and her ability to shame you for even thinking that "she'd sell herself like that" give her the plausible deniability she needs to go out on meet and greets. Additionally, she knows there are some men out there who are rich and / or naive enough to actually pay for a meet and greet or for a few platonic "dates" because "I'm not the kind of girl who sleeps with someone on the first date". (Cough, cough YES, she is. Just not with YOU). If you hear this kind of BS from a woman, best to cut your losses early.

This is why a smart man refuses to pay for meet and greets, and only offers a gift "once the panties hit the floor" and also realizes that a certain amount of game and attractiveness / hygiene is necessary to get these women. In the SA arena, you've got to play your part and channel your inner Richard Gere, even if you're faking it. In addition to "showing her the money" you have to "manage her feelings" while doing it. Sadly, managing her feelings usually increases costs for men.

I personally think she makes the decision on whether she's willing to fuck or not in the first 5 minutes of meeting you, and if she has a "rinsing" mindset, if you're not totally undesirable, she may see how much she can get out of you before you decide that paying for nothing isn't worth it any more.

[Kwagmire]

Just be careful when discussing roses with these "SBs" as I have buddy who got burned by a female cop. His encounter is not one you any monger wants to experience. Careful guys with these arrangements, always follow your heart and be safe!

Can you (or him, for that matter) be a little more specific? How did the interaction / negotiation go down? Were there any red flags he should have noticed / heeded in hindsight?