"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Capricaone]

As I reported here before the original SB who developed deep feelings and love for me, met her entire family and vowed never to let me go; well, she has to go. No reason and no fault of her own, I just can't do it. The age difference is too vast and the $ I'm spending is probably triple just seeing regular SB's. I can't help but feel like fucking shit, as I've tried different ways over the past few days to let her go and she cries, pleads and begs. I fall for her crying little ways every fucking time and then we rebuild. I have feelings for her as well, but fucking hell, I can't jump in with both feet. I just can't do it. So tomorrow, I'm just going to tell her and let her go. I expect a bad fallout, as family and such are not well onboard with this relationship.

After this, I will NEVER allow my sself to get feelings in the Sugar bowl again. NEVER! Too much pain and anguish. Will report back on the nuclear fallout. Driving to Virginia to tell her in person tomorrow night.

Dirty.

You're fooling yourself. All she cares about is the $$. Whats that saying about massage parlor girls? "Man who looks for love in a massage parlor gets neither a good massage nor a happy ending". The same thing applies to any girl where the immediate, direct transaction is based on the exchange of money. These girls are here to be used for sex. Nothing more. Nothing less. View it as something different at your peril.

[Dsprdo]

I have tried both SA and SD4 M; with much more success on SA, but I've put more into it. The recurring billing IS a pain. CL is nothing but spammers. The couple of real girls I have met there were nothing to write home about, with the exception of one hit 18 yo who told me she wanted to be a porn star and is well on her way to full pro status. My #1 SB is 500 a month, with twice a week agreed to, but we're not really hitting that. She probably is averaging about $ per visit. I am picking up a new girl that I met last week in a few hours for an overnight, with $ agreed to, once or twice a week. I have a date on Monday with another new girl that I had dinner with the other night, she has agreed to $$ per week for two visits. She is a true first timer, single mom, two jobs, and a cut above the rest on looks and brains. I really hope she pans out, but I'm not 100% sure she won't get cold feet at the last minute. The most I've paid was $. 5 per visit. I have probably missed out on some of the hotter local college girls because of that, but frequency is important, too.

[FotoGuy1970]

Took me a bit but I found it. The brother in question was Hernando. His post that classified some of the POTs that one may meet in the bowl (including the now legendary classification "Nando1") can be found at post #779.

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/sh...-Not&p=1330891

[HollywoodGuy]

As I reported here before the original SB who developed deep feelings and love for me, met her entire family and vowed never to let me go; well, she has to go. No reason and no fault of her own, I just can't do it. The age difference is too vast and the $ I'm spending is probably triple just seeing regular SB's. I can't help but feel like fucking shit, as I've tried different ways over the past few days to let her go and she cries, pleads and begs. I fall for her crying little ways every fucking time and then we rebuild. I have feelings for her as well, but fucking hell, I can't jump in with both feet. I just can't do it. So tomorrow, I'm just going to tell her and let her go. I expect a bad fallout, as family and such are not well onboard with this relationship.

After this, I will NEVER allow my sself to get feelings in the Sugar bowl again. NEVER! Too much pain and anguish. Will report back on the nuclear fallout. Driving to Virginia to tell her in person tomorrow night.

Dirty.

Triple?. No wonder she's crying. Tell her its a $ a date and let her break up with you. I promise you'll feel better no matter what happens. Just txt her and see what she says.

[DirtyDeeds38]

As I reported here before the original SB who developed deep feelings and love for me, met her entire family and vowed never to let me go; well, she has to go. No reason and no fault of her own, I just can't do it. The age difference is too vast and the $ I'm spending is probably triple just seeing regular SB's. I can't help but feel like fucking shit, as I've tried different ways over the past few days to let her go and she cries, pleads and begs. I fall for her crying little ways every fucking time and then we rebuild. I have feelings for her as well, but fucking hell, I can't jump in with both feet. I just can't do it. So tomorrow, I'm just going to tell her and let her go. I expect a bad fallout, as family and such are not well onboard with this relationship.

After this, I will NEVER allow my sself to get feelings in the Sugar bowl again. NEVER! Too much pain and anguish. Will report back on the nuclear fallout. Driving to Virginia to tell her in person tomorrow night.

Dirty.

[HollywoodGuy]

1. SA and ads on CL have given me the best results, SD4 M has been a waste of my time and recurring billing is all but impossible to put a stop to. Some brothers report mixed results with other sites, so I suggest you try some of the other ones and see how they work for your location.

2. I always pay per meeting, I have never used a monthly allowance.

3. On SA, I have a public pic that gives a bit of an idea of what I look like while still obscuring my identity. I have a few private pics that show what I look like, but I only show those to POTs that show an interest in me.

4. The POTs I've spoken to have always wanted more than $ per visit, so I can't speak for the guys who are able to get POTs for only $.

5. On SA, 99.9% of the time I use a copied and pasted message that I try to add a bit of personalization based on a POTs profile. Hard to tell what the response rate is, maybe 50/50.

6. Nando is / was a contributor to this thread who once posted a breakdown of the types and personalities of some of the POTs one may encounter while searching for a SB (my apologies, but I don't recall his full user name). The POT who has no job, not going to school, seems to have no end of drama and "emergencies" which require immediate need for cash he classified as a Nando1 . And so Nando1 became the term for any POT who may be a good temporary / short-term SB but in the long run will probably prove to be more trouble than she's worth.

I swear by SD4 M, but it is a minefield of pros, utr's, gps, not so good looking girls, and on and on. Lots of nando 1 types, but if you date 18 to 22 there are going to be more of those anyway. Unless a girl is in some type of adult entertainment (and even if she is), a $ a date is ok money. I said ok, not great or awesome. There has to be more than the $ to keep these girls coming back for more. Like a shoulder to cry on, killer sex, good advice, but something more.

[DirtyDeeds38]

Some things I stumbled upon that improved my situation within the sugar bowl. A website air bnb the newest trend in house, condo and luxury apartment rentals, most often even by the day will allow you to rent a condo, penthouse, or home you can pull off as your own if you're slick. I used it a few times with my SB's and it was awesome. Rented a luxury condo, fully furnished, etc in the heart of Philly for $100 a night. My SB was impressed and truly thought it was my place. Haha.

Another is to create a solid alibi for those who have an SO. When I had my 4 year affair, I went on all kinds of trips with old long lost "friends. " a cabin camping trip, sea fishing, helped an ole bro move a yacht, etc. Etc. I had a few people that SO could call and verify and they played the role. I then went away with my mistress and drew little to no suspicion. The alibi would fill in blanks about long lost days of the past, growing up together, tell my SO about his SO, kids etc. We could use a little networking on here like that it seems. .

[FotoGuy1970]

Fellow SDs,

A couple of questions that I am pondering:

1. Which site has yielded you the best results SA or SD4 M? Any differences in the types of SBs you are finding on the different sites?

2. What is your frequency of assistance? Per meeting or monthly?

3. I am hesitant to post a picture, if you have posted a pic do you have better results?

4. A number of SDs are communicating that their assistance is only $ per meeting, I really don't get it as any girl can get a bar or food service job in the big city and clear $$ per night via legit work.

5. Do you use a template in initial email contact? What is your response rate?

6. Searching through the site I really can't find a FAQ with all the abbreviations defined: I am wondering what NANDO means.

Thanks,

1. SA and ads on CL have given me the best results, SD4 M has been a waste of my time and recurring billing is all but impossible to put a stop to. Some brothers report mixed results with other sites, so I suggest you try some of the other ones and see how they work for your location.

2. I always pay per meeting, I have never used a monthly allowance.

3. On SA, I have a public pic that gives a bit of an idea of what I look like while still obscuring my identity. I have a few private pics that show what I look like, but I only show those to POTs that show an interest in me.

4. The POTs I've spoken to have always wanted more than $ per visit, so I can't speak for the guys who are able to get POTs for only $.

5. On SA, 99.9% of the time I use a copied and pasted message that I try to add a bit of personalization based on a POTs profile. Hard to tell what the response rate is, maybe 50/50.

6. Nando is / was a contributor to this thread who once posted a breakdown of the types and personalities of some of the POTs one may encounter while searching for a SB (my apologies, but I don't recall his full user name). The POT who has no job, not going to school, seems to have no end of drama and "emergencies" which require immediate need for cash he classified as a Nando1 . And so Nando1 became the term for any POT who may be a good temporary / short-term SB but in the long run will probably prove to be more trouble than she's worth.

[Walruscl]

4. A number of SDs are communicating that their assistance is only $ per meeting, I really don't get it as any girl can get a bar or food service job in the big city and clear $$ per night via legit work.

As at least one other person has pointed out, clearing $$ per night for service jobs is pretty much the exception, not the rule. Keeping in mind the limitations of anecdotal evidence, my SB basically clears about a little over half a $ per day. That's after a couple of years in one of the more labor-friendly food chains. As low-paying as it is, she considers herself lucky to have the job, as most of the alternatives in the service / unskilled labor market pay less.

This isn't a big city area, but it's only about 90 minutes to the nearest one, and the cost of living here isn't outrageous but nor is it cheap. She's going to school, with zero assistance from her parents, and there's no way she could pull that off on just her regular job.

We started out at $$/ visit, but have since moved on to a less rigid arrangement. Earning about 3 x of a day at her regular job in exchange for 4-6 hours of naked fun is a good deal. Even if she weren't smitten with me and having the best sex of her life, those financials are quite compelling.

[JZLizard]

Never forget Gents, THE GIRLS ARE HERE FOR MONEY. They aren't looking for the love of their life. Sure, they hope to have a good time, cool experiences, maybe even sex with an experienced guy, but the bottom line is some level of support.

The thing is though all women are looking for some level of support. So, if that's our criteria for a pro, there is no such thing as an SB or an escort at all. From a logical standpoint that would mean all women are the same and they are all pros. It's like saying just because all men want sex, and because all men provide some sort of support (even if it is providing a home for their wife), then we are all just johns paying hookers.

I'm never one to try to change another man's opinion, but in a public forum I do think it's very important to separate opinion from facts. There's nothing I could say about the categorization of SBs versus UTRs versus escorts that I could proclaim is factual, it's just my opinion. But the important thing is that we never narrow our thinking to the point that we start believing that definitions are created only from our own experiences. Just because we have not experienced, something doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that someone else hasn't experienced it.

I personally have experienced SBs who would not take my money. I have met those who are in search of love (even though that's not what I'm looking for). If all we have is a hammer, the whole world starts looking like a nail. If there is one thing I could say that goes beyond opinion and enters the realm of fact, it is that if we approach girls online with offers for money, we are only going to be able to attract UTRs and pros. There's nothing wrong with doing that, but it's important to dodge delusions that what we see in our own personal approach is all that exists.

I personally don't want to see the entire SB scene turned into a pure UTR scene just because that's what some people are doing. Granted, there is a LOT of UTR experiences to be had there, and there can be a fine line between a true SB and a UTR. But losing sight of the difference or denying it exists isn't good for any of us in the bowl.

[Beachesnole02]

Took the bikes out for a ride on the 4th up and down the beach. There was just an incredible influx of hot women in small bikinis. Spent they day wondering which ones had SD's. Kind of explains my luck when there are so many around.

As for your questions Latex, which site is best seems to vary geographically. In my area SA has worked well, AF seems to have more pros, have not tried SD4 me, but have had luck running a talent ad on CL. I have a private photo which I share after they express interest, and I have in my profile that I do not care about marital status. As for making 2 bills a night in a legitimate job. I don't think you are connected to the real world. Yes there are some jobs in some areas where they can do that, but in my city only bartenders in the high end establishments average that, and it is seasonal, not regular income. Married women in the bowl, college students and single moms typically have much lower paying jobs. I have some I contribute more to, but most are 1 to 1. 50 per visit.

Update. Halfway through my busy week. Translator and I went at it after her birthday lunch. Countertop sex in the kitchen, a new one for me. Still the best lay I have had in ages. Second in the rotation the model, would have been great if I was not seeing the translator. She is over her BJ hangup and still has the hottest body, but takes more than she gives in bed. My 4th visit with the" married but left home alone" got postponed to this afternoon due to my SO taking yesterday off. My SO was feeling randy after our bike ride and took care of business on the ottoman like we used to when we were dating.

[Latex]

Fellow SDs,

A couple of questions that I am pondering:

1. Which site has yielded you the best results SA or SD4 M? Any differences in the types of SBs you are finding on the different sites?

2. What is your frequency of assistance? Per meeting or monthly?

3. I am hesitant to post a picture, if you have posted a pic do you have better results?

4. A number of SDs are communicating that their assistance is only $ per meeting, I really don't get it as any girl can get a bar or food service job in the big city and clear $$ per night via legit work.

5. Do you use a template in initial email contact? What is your response rate?

6. Searching through the site I really can't find a FAQ with all the abbreviations defined: I am wondering what NANDO means.

Thanks,

[RubberyMan]

Hi,

Long time lurker here.

Reasons? I live overseas, so a lot of my experience is not relevant. ($ values, economic needs of SB difference etc). I am senior on a couple of p4 p and Philippine boards, so don't need to post irrelevant stuff to get post numbers up. You guys have posted some awesome stuff, so I don't need to post stupid questions. There's lots in the forum. So many thanks.

My own experience of the sugar bowl started over ten years ago, when a flatmate had some financial problems. However, being her flatmate, I knew she was high risk because she had multiple guys per week. For free. When I declined the offer, she came back with a proposal to introduce me to someone. In short, young married couple, overnight for the price of an hour escort, everything on the buffet, bareback. I was fifty, so that was a good deal. My flatmate facilitated several more of these for a few years till I shifted state for work.

Then I went to the Phil's on vacation. Forget any bs that you see in the media, the scene there is not, repeat, not point and click p4 p, it is better described as sugar bowl on training wheels. The M&G is arranged for you in bars in places like Subic and Angeles City, but they can and will refuse you, and they can and will apply GPS principles. People going there from a p4 p perspective can be just as shocked as if they think p4 p principles will work in the SBowl. They don't. OTOH, if you like Asian women, and want some real GFE overnight for 2000 Pesos. With SB skills developed here, you are well ahead.

The other thing that I found in my country is that many of the SB are married or have partners. However, they represent themselves as single on SA etc. That explains a lot of flakiness IMHO. Even if the partner knows and agrees with what is going on, they have a lot of obligations on weekends with in-laws and friends they have to work around.

I have found that subtly letting Pots know that I am OK with married women has increased my 'hit' rate enormously.

Worries about pregnancy and std issues are less too with married SB, and they need to be just as discreet as we are.

[FredMoore]

IS she or isn't she? : That is the question.

I agree with Hollywood about a real SB having one SD and that more than one SD (paying customer) approaches Pro status. If good looking girls would pay me to sleep with them, I would be a Pro all the way! But what's in a label? As a guy investing my time, energy, money, and freedom I prefer to have a Baby who only sees one at a time = ME. The problem is, unless you are providing her with complete support at a high level, we really don't have the right to demand monogamy. Ask for it is one thing, but we are setting them up for failure. The key to monogamy is to capture them emotionally. When they love you they will not want to see others. We all have different opinions on the subject and each to his own. My multiyear ATF SB was seeing 3 of us, and my latest was actively prospecting SA and SDFM later in our relationship. They needed more money.

Never forget Gents, THE GIRLS ARE HERE FOR MONEY. They aren't looking for the love of their life. Sure, they hope to have a good time, cool experiences, maybe even sex with an experienced guy, but the bottom line is some level of support.

" Last time she had fckd was Christmas and that she felt like it was Christmas all over again. " Roleur.

Dang those were deep and long lasting bruises! 6 mos. Well, they fit your hand so she is consistent with the size guy she likes. Lying be*&5 ch Well Bro, if the price was right use her as an UTR when you have an opening in your schedule.

Scotty, as we said "welcome Back " --where the hell are you? Get posting Brother!

[FotoGuy1970]

Truth in advertising is good Curiosit! Many SBs we all see are UTR and we just don't know that they are seeing others. I would rather know and make the decision whether I am OK with that or not. I like a nice blend between naivte and skill. I like to feel like I can show my SB something that she has not had in the same way before.

I had to dismiss one girl earlier this year for not being honest about having (or at the very least seeking) at least one other partner. I always discuss that with any POT: To just be honest with me if they're going to be non-exclusive. Honesty goes a long way with me.