"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Walruscl]

I want them to be in it for the money and the honey. The money gives me leverage that even if unspoken is understood. And the honey to make it sweeter. But it has to be both or its just a paid booty call (or worse) some girl that thinks she has some control over you.

Yeah, well she doesn't turn down the money, and she definitely can use it. She also was quick on the draw when she decided that the GD card wasn't something she was comfortable with.

But she's also at least equally hooked on the emotional support and mentoring that I provide. Maybe even more so, because those are things that are making a bigger difference in her life and where it's headed, and she damned well knows it. And you can't buy that with money.

But your approach is clearly working well for you and your situation, and I see your logic. If I was able to play the game the way you do, I'd probably have a similar attitude. But then again I'm probably an outlier on the range of the normal SD / SB dynamic.

[HollywoodGuy]

Same here. We recently had an unusual week where we were able to see each other twice, with the 2nd time being a last minute decision on my part to play rather than work. She made a point of saying that she just wanted to see me and to skip the sugar (which if anyone is following my tame-by-comparison adventure, she's done that a few times before).

I've been tempted to go allowance, but between the issue of her not wanting a Green Dot and some other recent drama, I've held back on that. And what occurs to me now is that it would deprive her of the ability to definitively demonstrate that she's not in it for the money. I appreciate her more on the occasions she does that, and I think it makes her feel good to do it.

Interesting twist anyway.

I want them to be in it for the money and the honey. The money gives me leverage that even if unspoken is understood. And the honey to make it sweeter. But it has to be both or its just a paid booty call (or worse) some girl that thinks she has some control over you.

[Walruscl]

I do know my ATF cares about me as an IRL BF. The ultimate question is if she would see me if I couldn't afford to pay her? As long as I can afford the Allowance I will never test her since a deal is a deal. But that would be the ultimate test. My guess is that she would still see me since we have an amazing connection.

Same here. We recently had an unusual week where we were able to see each other twice, with the 2nd time being a last minute decision on my part to play rather than work. She made a point of saying that she just wanted to see me and to skip the sugar (which if anyone is following my tame-by-comparison adventure, she's done that a few times before).

I've been tempted to go allowance, but between the issue of her not wanting a Green Dot and some other recent drama, I've held back on that. And what occurs to me now is that it would deprive her of the ability to definitively demonstrate that she's not in it for the money. I appreciate her more on the occasions she does that, and I think it makes her feel good to do it.

Interesting twist anyway.

[FredMoore]

Pretty much. It's similar cuisines. Everyone has different tastes. Personally, I'm not a big fan of "transactional" dates. I much prefer to have the woman want to be with me because of me rather than the sugar. But, then I'm also a realist and know that few twenty somethings want to be with those of us who are long of tooth unless we can offer something more.

Drat that pesky Emotional tie that many of us look for.

Even with UTRs (SB #2) and Pros I look for some sign that they like me and don't just look at me as an ATM. Silly I know. I do know my ATF cares about me as an IRL BF. The ultimate question is if she would see me if I couldn't afford to pay her? As long as I can afford the Allowance I will never test her since a deal is a deal. But that would be the ultimate test. My guess is that she would still see me since we have an amazing connection, but that she might seek another SD for the dough. She is not greedy and what I give her seems to be enough since an ex pays her.

[BikeRider]

So its basically the same price as SD4 M.

Pretty much. It's similar cuisines. Everyone has different tastes. Personally, I'm not a big fan of "transactional" dates. I much prefer to have the woman want to be with me because of me rather than the sugar. But, then I'm also a realist and know that few twenty somethings want to be with those of us who are long of tooth unless we can offer something more.

[HollywoodGuy]

Good question. I'd probably say $400. $600/ yr. Definitely not cheap.

There were two main reasons why I entered the bowl. The first being that getting quality on AM and similar sites was becoming more difficult. The second being that while I wasn't directly paying these women I did wine and dine them. I figured the ROI would be roughly the same.

Right now, I've only two girls in my rotation from the bowl. The AA cheerleader, and another college girl. The rest are women I met on either AM or AFF.

So its basically the same price as SD4 M.

[BikeRider]

Any estimate on the total fees per month to AM?

Good question. I'd probably say $400. $600/ yr. Definitely not cheap.

There were two main reasons why I entered the bowl. The first being that getting quality on AM and similar sites was becoming more difficult. The second being that while I wasn't directly paying these women I did wine and dine them. I figured the ROI would be roughly the same.

Right now, I've only two girls in my rotation from the bowl. The AA cheerleader, and another college girl. The rest are women I met on either AM or AFF.

[HollywoodGuy]

The recent question about AM success made me (since it is the end of the year) go back and do an accounting of sorts. The results surprised me. While I'm not in the caliber of Wilt Chamberlain's 20,000 women, I may very well be a "man wh*re" with yellow fever. A revelation that wouldn't be a surprise to a few of my friends.

I started on AM around circa 2007. I was single and had been dating a woman for about a year. She dumped me and said since I wasn't seeking a relationship I should join AM. I did. I've been on and off the site now for 6+ years. I usually jump on for a few weeks, and focus on the handful of contacts I make. I play them out, rinse, and repeat.

AM is expensive, but I like that the credits don't expire. This allows me to jump on and off based on needs. I've also noticed that my hit ratio is much lower now than it was when I first started. This may because AM has become more popular AND I am older.

Here's the accounting. I'll only add a few comments about each for brevity's sake. The total count is 18 or about 3/ year.

- (7/9/7/9) Late 30's pinay married spinner, 5'0 and 95 lbs, bisexual. I saw her on and off for a year. CA based.

- (8/7/8/8) Chinese nurse, 5'7", single and size 4. ONS. CA based.

- (6/8/8/9) Pinay nurse, 5'7", single. I saw her on and off for about a year. CA based.

- (8/7/10/10) Korean para-legal, 22, single. Still in contact although she's 25 now. DC based.

- (7/8/10/10) AA admin mid-30's 5'10" 160 lbs DDD's. Still in contact. DC based.

- (8/8/7/8) Korean software dev, 31,5'2", 110 lbs. Contact is random. WA based.

- (10/10/10/9) Chinese MILF, married, late 30's, 5'8", 110 lbs. She's probably the best looking of them all. Still in contact, but she found a major SD. DC based.

- (7/8/9/8) Greek accountant, married, early 40's, has amazing DD's. Still in contact. DC based.

- (7/7/10/10) Chinese Real Estate agent, single, early 20's, 5'4", 120 lbs. Still in contact. NY based.

- (8/9/9/10) mixed AA Native American, single, 5'8", 130 lbs, a total bisexual freak. FL based (moved).

- (7/7/10/10) Korean / Italian HR rep, mid-30's, single (married when I first met her), another bi-sexual freak with DD's. Still in contact. IL based.

- (8/7/8/8) Pinay CSR, married, 5'1", 120 lbs. WA based.

- (7/7/8/7) blonde EMT, single, 5'9", 130 lbs. A bit of freak but also shy. Still in contact. DC based.

- (8/8/8/10) blonde MILF, single, 5'1", 100 lbs. A total freak. DC based.

- (7/8/1/7) Persian MILF, married, 30's, 5'6", 120 lbs. My first stalker. DC based.

- (7/8/10/10) Japanese MILF, married, 5'4", 110 lbs, early 40's. We had an amazing year together. NY based.

- (9/9/9/9) Cambodian student, single, 5'8", 130 lbs. Loved this girl, but our schedules never worked out well. GA based.

- (9/9/9/10) Latina student, married, mid 20's, 5'4", 130 lbs. Close to ATF. Still in contact. DC based.

These are just the AM women, and none of them ever asked me for $. Just wine, dine, and.

BTW- "still in contact" doesn't necessarily mean we're still shagging. It means that we still message / email each other now and then.

I've also been on AFF and Badoo (although both work better for hook-ups in Asia).

My younger single friends are saying that Tinder is the big new thing for hook-ups. I haven't tried it yet since I'm seldom alone on biz trips these days.

Any estimate on the total fees per month to AM?

[Graham111]

Not familiar with that one. Hand job?

I only show G rated pics. And always emphasize that there will be no intercourse or oral on a first date (knowing there will be on over half of them anyway). It just keeps you from looking like all the other desperate guys out there.

Although I do also emphasize that I need kissing with a HE if they wanna get paid. Otherwise its a civi date to say hi. Their choice. 50% take the FS, 25% take the HE, 25% take the civi date. These are round numbers.

All my current regulars opted for the FS on the first date.

[BikeRider]

Another negative. I'm down to my last 5 credits which is what it costs to contact a POT and they won't let you use it to go to zero. What's up with that? So basically you waste it.

Bike, it sounds like AM has worked well for you! I'm surprised how many single girls are on there.

Bottom line, I think the Female / male ratio is low (possibly inverse),so they have many more choices compared to SA.

Thanks Fred. Channeling Garrett Morris aka Chico Escuela "AM been berry berry good to me".

The ratio has always been more males than females on AM, and I'll bet that the ratio is around 10 x males to females.

I was very surprised as to the number of singles on AM as well. The explanation is (and why I joined when I was single) they're not looking for a relationship. Strangely, some of the singles only want other singles. Morals I guess. Go figure.

I met most all of the women off of chat. I find it is easier to establish a rapport that way. Chat also allowed me to leverage the law of large numbers and contact more women than I could via email for the same number of credits. Lately, however, my female friends who remain on AM tell me they don't dare venture onto chat because they're bombarded by chat messages. So, I'm adapting. .

As for the 5 credits issue raised by another brother. AM and all of the sites similar have taking our money down to a science that borders on fraud.

[Revvo]

So Revvo, congrats on your prolific hobbying. I'm wondering? Since I am on parole and under the eye I am struggling to find time to even get a 1 hr bang in without having to answer for my time. How are you away so much for your multiple dates without raising your SO's suspicions?

I'm always looking for new ideas to keep the hobby going.

P.S. ATF #4 continues to be agreeable in driving to me, getting the FC, and turning around in 1+ hour. I know she is not all about the $$ ,so I am flattered that she will do it. But I'm down to 1 1/2 / week now which is lower than I like. I would like 2 regulars and 1 strange / week.

Good question. And thanks. I travel a lot. And my work schedule is extremely flexible. My two regulars my Venezuelan baby (who is moving away at the end of the month), and my little girl next door live in my city, and they have nice cozy little apartments where I can meet them at. The others I have to arrange hotels. If I am traveling to another city for an overnight stay. I either take one with me or extend my visit a little and see them on the way out or in.

I will also add that there is not that much fucking going on lately. More prospecting with a whole ton of flakes in the mix. And that takes more time than anything. Plus I do run out of time sometimes. I cancel on some and delay some.

Settling down to two maybe three at the most for the future. And see my report below about my little Italian paralegal she is being groomed to be a nice long term. Stable affair with no drama. But it is a slow roll.

Also it does not hurt that I am not on the radar.

Revvo.

[FredMoore]

Another negative. I'm down to my last 5 credits which is what it costs to contact a POT and they won't let you use it to go to zero. What's up with that? So basically you waste it.

Bike, it sounds like AM has worked well for you! I'm surprised how many single girls are on there.

Bottom line, I think the Female / male ratio is low (possibly inverse),so they have many more choices compared to SA.

[BikeRider]

The recent question about AM success made me (since it is the end of the year) go back and do an accounting of sorts. The results surprised me. While I'm not in the caliber of Wilt Chamberlain's 20,000 women, I may very well be a "man wh*re" with yellow fever. A revelation that wouldn't be a surprise to a few of my friends.

I started on AM around circa 2007. I was single and had been dating a woman for about a year. She dumped me and said since I wasn't seeking a relationship I should join AM. I did. I've been on and off the site now for 6+ years. I usually jump on for a few weeks, and focus on the handful of contacts I make. I play them out, rinse, and repeat.

AM is expensive, but I like that the credits don't expire. This allows me to jump on and off based on needs. I've also noticed that my hit ratio is much lower now than it was when I first started. This may because AM has become more popular AND I am older.

Here's the accounting. I'll only add a few comments about each for brevity's sake. The total count is 18 or about 3/ year.

- (7/9/7/9) Late 30's pinay married spinner, 5'0 and 95 lbs, bisexual. I saw her on and off for a year. CA based.

- (8/7/8/8) Chinese nurse, 5'7", single and size 4. ONS. CA based.

- (6/8/8/9) Pinay nurse, 5'7", single. I saw her on and off for about a year. CA based.

- (8/7/10/10) Korean para-legal, 22, single. Still in contact although she's 25 now. DC based.

- (7/8/10/10) AA admin mid-30's 5'10" 160 lbs DDD's. Still in contact. DC based.

- (8/8/7/8) Korean software dev, 31,5'2", 110 lbs. Contact is random. WA based.

- (10/10/10/9) Chinese MILF, married, late 30's, 5'8", 110 lbs. She's probably the best looking of them all. Still in contact, but she found a major SD. DC based.

- (7/8/9/8) Greek accountant, married, early 40's, has amazing DD's. Still in contact. DC based.

- (7/7/10/10) Chinese Real Estate agent, single, early 20's, 5'4", 120 lbs. Still in contact. NY based.

- (8/9/9/10) mixed AA Native American, single, 5'8", 130 lbs, a total bisexual freak. FL based (moved).

- (7/7/10/10) Korean / Italian HR rep, mid-30's, single (married when I first met her), another bi-sexual freak with DD's. Still in contact. IL based.

- (8/7/8/8) Pinay CSR, married, 5'1", 120 lbs. WA based.

- (7/7/8/7) blonde EMT, single, 5'9", 130 lbs. A bit of freak but also shy. Still in contact. DC based.

- (8/8/8/10) blonde MILF, single, 5'1", 100 lbs. A total freak. DC based.

- (7/8/1/7) Persian MILF, married, 30's, 5'6", 120 lbs. My first stalker. DC based.

- (7/8/10/10) Japanese MILF, married, 5'4", 110 lbs, early 40's. We had an amazing year together. NY based.

- (9/9/9/9) Cambodian student, single, 5'8", 130 lbs. Loved this girl, but our schedules never worked out well. GA based.

- (9/9/9/10) Latina student, married, mid 20's, 5'4", 130 lbs. Close to ATF. Still in contact. DC based.

These are just the AM women, and none of them ever asked me for $. Just wine, dine, and.

BTW- "still in contact" doesn't necessarily mean we're still shagging. It means that we still message / email each other now and then.

I've also been on AFF and Badoo (although both work better for hook-ups in Asia).

My younger single friends are saying that Tinder is the big new thing for hook-ups. I haven't tried it yet since I'm seldom alone on biz trips these days.

[FredMoore]

So Revvo, congrats on your prolific hobbying. I'm wondering? Since I am on parole and under the eye I am struggling to find time to even get a 1 hr bang in without having to answer for my time. How are you away so much for your multiple dates without raising your SO's suspicions?

I'm always looking for new ideas to keep the hobby going.

P.S. ATF #4 continues to be agreeable in driving to me, getting the FC, and turning around in 1+ hour. I know she is not all about the $$ ,so I am flattered that she will do it. But I'm down to 1 1/2 / week now which is lower than I like. I would like 2 regulars and 1 strange / week.

[Revvo]

I had to talk about my date tonight because the bowl never ceases to surprise me. As I have said many times the bowl is a very very fluid situation.

Take today for instance I visited for a M&G with the 49 YO MILF, at noon, very nice educated woman. She was texting me all kinds of dirty stuff and telling me how she had been with only 6 men her entire life. Over and over. But in reality she was really really into sex and knew how to suck dick. Don't look at what they say look at what they do. So when I first met her she allowed me to kiss her on the lips and made a point of wearing a dress with no panties and telling me about it. And within an hour of meeting she had my cock in her mouth and was swallowing. Not exactly what I would call a woman that has not fucked a lot. I know I am good looking and charming and got lots of game. But I aint that good. LOL And when it came to the sugar she said she was not interested she got really interested afterward. I think she has a lot more going on than me.

Then take my date tonight. I started out tired. But I just got back from it and I am energized. She is a paralegal with a good job and does not want anything from me. She just wants to find a man of substance that is not out to try to jump her bones on the first date. Someone she can talk to and get to know. She is extremely conservative when it comes to men. In fact she was very careful not to drink too much and not to let me kiss her on the lips after the date. Frustrating but you have to understand what we have here. She is very smart, very good looking and is not looking to get anything from me as far as money goes. Don't look at what they say look at what they do.

She is very busy and does not have time to date men her age and fuck around with their immature antics. Along comes me and I am polite and successful and not trying to pin her to the wall and feel her up right away. I don't talk dirty. I am respectful and patient. By the way I need the slow roll on this anyway because I am low on time and energy. She is a perfect long term project. So we have a great time. Good conversation. Lots of complements both ways. She said so many nice things about me. And she is really nice looking. She is 37 YO Italian divorced and no kids. Very nice exotic face. Think Sofia Loren in her younger days and she has that mouth that the women pay so much money to inject with collagen these days to look just like hers. But it is natural and so sexy. Large natural breasts and a fairly good body little heavy but nice. And she is sweet as hell. And very into me. This is good stuff. You damn right I will put the time into this one.

I give her a 9/7/10/? . It may take a while but she is cool with me being married and she has her own car her own job and is going to school to better herself and her own place so we can meet. This will only cost me the dates themselves and nothing else. Pure heaven, now we just need to keep the dates going and see how it progresses. She is good to go for another date soon. May be next week until I can see her but that is ok. Slow roll my brothers, slow roll. But what a nice roll it is. This could be the solution to my quandary. All my others could fall by the wayside and I will have a quality woman with little or not cost. Maybe $200 per month, down from $2000 per month? I can dream can't I? LOL.

More to report after tomorrow. When I see my other Italian, my little 24 YO Hot pageant winner pushing 10's on the Hollywood scale.

Revvo.