"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[BigOne73]

I've been in a traditional relationship for the past year. I've been back in the Sugar Bowl for about a month. Things have definitely changed. You can't block the pros you know like you used to be able to.

[ErkTheOne]

Anyone know this one from down in Roanoke area? Sally Val 4 u https://www.seeking.com/member/3c846...1-5ddd81e42607.

Messaged a bit but she goes quiet for long time in between. Posted in Roanoke forum also. Happy to share other info if I can.

[InTight]

I've posted a few questions in here but today marks my earnest entry into the bowl.

I'm coming up on the end of my second month of paid membership, and looking back through my accomplishments I see that I have none. I've gotten too many messages to even begin to count. I've gotten maybe 10 or so contacts (phone numbers and / or emails). And yet I've been on a single M&G that did not go anywhere. And I see that I am squarely to blame.

I've read that this is a numbers game so obviously what I need to do is work on my funnel and go on more M&Gs. More failed M&Gs means that a successful one is that much closer.

I've practiced the intro message and do well there. I've even practiced the couple follow up messages and am getting pretty decent at getting either a phone number or email. The "secret" is literally just make small talk. Just make small talk until they offer up the contact info. Nothing more, nothing less. No sex talk, no arrangement talk, no anything, really. Just talk about what you did last weekend. What you're going to do next weekend. What the weather is like. At some point, with some ladies it is sooner, and some ladies it is later, they will drop a number. Easy.

Where my funnel breaks down is converting these numbers into M&Gs / FCs. I do not understand how to transition from talking about weather to talking about dollars per meet / sexual preferences in texts or emails. Perhaps that's the weakness of my strategy. Perhaps by being too nice and ensuring access to contact info it weakens the funnel down the line because I am not per-qualifying appropriately.

I have gotten the full spectrum of messages, however. From endless penpal style talks of the weather to first message into single email with an attached crotch shot and full a la carte menu. Sometimes I feel it is less what I say and more whoever I am saying it to. Still, I am not really in search of obvious pros /UTRs. If I was I would just follow up with every "hey" message I get, which is tons.

The question that is hidden in here is what is the progression or "tempo", of you will, of messages on SA and the followup text / emails? Obviously this varies but anyone want to take a stab at some general guidelines? Also, how does one first broach the subject.

In closing I will say the worst question I've been faced with is "what's your ideal arrangement?" Do I really just say 1 time a week for $$ in a mid range hotel halfway between me and you, I'll bring the refreshments if you bring the entertainment and drop the mic? Advice here is appreciated.

One step at a time.

Cruzier.

I've been out of the bowl for a while but always read this thread for the enjoyable stories. When I first signed up and sent money in within a week I was getting pussy. You are using the Nice Guy approach and as nice guys finish last you are proving the point. I start out in the first message suggesting that she text me on my burner phone (no I don't tell her it is a burner) so we can communicate privately. I found when texting I did better with a direct bad boy approach (that is not who I am so it was fun playing the game) and start suggesting she send me hot pictures and when can we meet. I did better going directly to the FC than dinner out but got laid both ways. I was looking for hot sex not a girl friend or companion. The few that I hit it off with we staid in touch and had multiple dates, it got to the point that sometimes the sex was free and mutually enjoyable. One young lady that I have many photos taken when we were naked and playing and a couple of dozen video clips of the various fun times, the only anal I have done in several years and the only video of it I have with here I am still in contact even though I'm on the west coast and she is on the east coast. I'm telling you that you get pussy only if you try, quit the gentleman shit and start being more demanding, tell her what you want and when. If she ghosts you then Next.

[DWinthrop]

Why all the mystery? Why not say which sorority?

LOL Why? Then they will get blown up with messages and be harder for me to bang when I'm in town.

[FarFarAway]

Lots of these SBs have them. What do you think they can say about a girl, and how do you involve them in your play?

[DrSummer]

My weakest link is also moving from messaging to M&G. Once I meet a girl, my success rate is very high. One reason may be I have only one profile photo (no face), although I mention in my profile that I would be happy to share pics offline. I am somewhat impatient person, may be I am trying to get to the "business end" of the chat too early. I am mainly trying to weed out picture sellers, time wasters etc. I would typically bring up a possible meet up in person within first 5 to 10 messages. Few occasions, girls went silent after that. I spent few messages chit chat etc, but try to talk them into chat offline ASAP. I am beginning to figure out the personalities that need lengthy chat before moving into business end. The key is that they don't view you as a "creep", and trying to get into their pants quickly (although they sure know what our end goal is). Girls are very different from how we think, just have to understand in order to get into their pants.

Stay safe.

Dr. S.

Hey man. Good on you for making progress on chatting up POTs.

I think when it comes to an arrangement, 99% of the girls on the site know what's up. Guys hope for or expect sex in exchange for money. Anything else, like dinner dates, cocktails out, friendship, companionship is icing on the cake. Very, very few of us would give a girl money for any of the latter if it didn't come with the former. Girls know that. That said, some of them will still try to see if they can get what they want (money) for not having to put out. This is either some kind of fetish power move (findom?) for them that involves taking advantage of clueless guys or the sort of thing may help them rationalize that they're not really a prostitute (women's minds are amazing machines capable of bending reality into a fucking pretzel, if you haven't noticed), or it feeds their ego I. E. "OMG, guys think I'm soooo prettyyyy they pay just to give me attention and for me to text them and send selfies!

*Sidebar: If any of you do this, please stop. It's like feeding wildlife: you're reinforcing behavior that just turns them into an incessant and vapid pain in the ass.

Anyway, to answer your questions about the money aspect of the deal: I used to think the way you do. That since this was an arrangement / financial transaction that it was necessary to have the $$ and sex details spelled out before commencing. I learned from the wise gentlemen here that nothing could be further from the truth.

Now, I don't bring up money at all. And about half the time she won't either, I've found. I also never bring up money on Seeking messages, email or text, always deferring / delaying that conversation to in person at the M&G, if I have to have it at all. Also, never talk money over SA messaging - they DO seem to read / scan our messages and will ban you for talk that seems to be about escorting / prostitution. I just ask her out on a date and make sure the logistics of the evening include a place to have sex, be it a hotel or my car or my place or her place (I'm single, so have no SO to worry about). It's my job as a man to lead the date to a naked conclusion, and at the end I slip a gift into her purse without mention of $. 90% of the time nothing is said, and they are more than happy to get together again.

If she does bring up money, I follow the golden rule of negotiation: The one who states a price first loses. I ask her what she thinks an amicable arrangement would be for her. Usually, she'll come in sky-high ($700 for a dinner date? Girl, you on crack.). At that point, if I'm interested still, I'll try to talk her down, emphasizing that I'm really looking for a long-term arrangement and that she'll make much more over time if she lowers her per-meet rate to something reasonable and sustainable (for me, that's 150-250, depending on a mental algorithm that takes into account her level of youth, beauty, weight, intelligence, reliability, agreeableness, common sense, perceived level of sanity, sense of humor, quality of conversation). Most of they time they agree.

On the question of an ideal arrangement, my answer to this never includes money. I usually say something along the lines of looking for a friend and FWB to have fun and do things with, blah, blah, I work a lot, don't really have time for a conventional relationship, blah, blah, want something casual and easy, not looking to get in the way of your life, blah blah, some nights out, some nights in, blah blah. Also, if they're looking for some sort of kept girlfriend / Pretty Woman / ongoing allowance kind of bullshit, I say that I'm open to that (I'm really not), but would prefer to give them a gift / allowance each time we get together until we get to know each other better.

Or something like that.

Hope that helps.

[DrSummer]

Gents.

I have been a premium member of SA for more than a year, now I see they try to get me into "Diamond" membership status. $250 per month and you need to verify the personal and income information. Seems like a rip-off, and more of a trap collecting information. Anyway, wanted to check if anyone here tried it and what the experience was.

Stay safe.

Dr. S.

[Kwagmire]

Where my funnel breaks down is converting these numbers into M&Gs / FCs. I do not understand how to transition from talking about weather to talking about dollars per meet / sexual preferences in texts or emails. Perhaps that's the weakness of my strategy. Perhaps by being too nice and ensuring access to contact info it weakens the funnel down the line because I am not per-qualifying appropriately.

<snip>

The question that is hidden in here is what is the progression or "tempo", of you will, of messages on SA and the followup text / emails? Obviously this varies but anyone want to take a stab at some general guidelines? Also, how does one first broach the subject.

In closing I will say the worst question I've been faced with is "what's your ideal arrangement?" Do I really just say 1 time a week for $$ in a mid range hotel halfway between me and you, I'll bring the refreshments if you bring the entertainment and drop the mic? Advice here is appreciated.

Cruzier.

Hey man. Good on you for making progress on chatting up POTs.

I think when it comes to an arrangement, 99% of the girls on the site know what's up. Guys hope for or expect sex in exchange for money. Anything else, like dinner dates, cocktails out, friendship, companionship is icing on the cake. Very, very few of us would give a girl money for any of the latter if it didn't come with the former. Girls know that. That said, some of them will still try to see if they can get what they want (money) for not having to put out. This is either some kind of fetish power move (findom?) for them that involves taking advantage of clueless guys or the sort of thing may help them rationalize that they're not really a prostitute (women's minds are amazing machines capable of bending reality into a fucking pretzel, if you haven't noticed), or it feeds their ego I. E. "OMG, guys think I'm soooo prettyyyy they pay just to give me attention and for me to text them and send selfies!

*Sidebar: If any of you do this, please stop. It's like feeding wildlife: you're reinforcing behavior that just turns them into an incessant and vapid pain in the ass.

Anyway, to answer your questions about the money aspect of the deal: I used to think the way you do. That since this was an arrangement / financial transaction that it was necessary to have the $$ and sex details spelled out before commencing. I learned from the wise gentlemen here that nothing could be further from the truth.

Now, I don't bring up money at all. And about half the time she won't either, I've found. I also never bring up money on Seeking messages, email or text, always deferring / delaying that conversation to in person at the M&G, if I have to have it at all. Also, never talk money over SA messaging - they DO seem to read / scan our messages and will ban you for talk that seems to be about escorting / prostitution. I just ask her out on a date and make sure the logistics of the evening include a place to have sex, be it a hotel or my car or my place or her place (I'm single, so have no SO to worry about). It's my job as a man to lead the date to a naked conclusion, and at the end I slip a gift into her purse without mention of $. 90% of the time nothing is said, and they are more than happy to get together again.

If she does bring up money, I follow the golden rule of negotiation: The one who states a price first loses. I ask her what she thinks an amicable arrangement would be for her. Usually, she'll come in sky-high ($700 for a dinner date? Girl, you on crack.). At that point, if I'm interested still, I'll try to talk her down, emphasizing that I'm really looking for a long-term arrangement and that she'll make much more over time if she lowers her per-meet rate to something reasonable and sustainable (for me, that's 150-250, depending on a mental algorithm that takes into account her level of youth, beauty, weight, intelligence, reliability, agreeableness, common sense, perceived level of sanity, sense of humor, quality of conversation). Most of they time they agree.

On the question of an ideal arrangement, my answer to this never includes money. I usually say something along the lines of looking for a friend and FWB to have fun and do things with, blah, blah, I work a lot, don't really have time for a conventional relationship, blah, blah, want something casual and easy, not looking to get in the way of your life, blah blah, some nights out, some nights in, blah blah. Also, if they're looking for some sort of kept girlfriend / Pretty Woman / ongoing allowance kind of bullshit, I say that I'm open to that (I'm really not), but would prefer to give them a gift / allowance each time we get together until we get to know each other better.

Or something like that.

Hope that helps.

[Truncated]

Bingo, word of mouth.

There is a sorority at VCU that happens to have a lot of SBs, they all know each other and talk.

I've seen a list a SB showed me. It was a spreadsheet of SDs, how much they offered in $, and notes about them. A SB showed it to me right after she attended a SB get-together.

I agree with Kevin that these girls don't like to work hard. But they most-certainly do have their shit together enough to compile lists.

These sorority girls are sharp when it comes to fleecing guys on Seeking. Their goal is to extract as much cash from us as possible without giving up the P.

How many of us have met a girl who claims to be new to the sugar bowl, but then throws phrases like PPM around once money is mentioned? They network and help each other with profile advice, $, etc.

[Cruzier1]

I've posted a few questions in here but today marks my earnest entry into the bowl.

I'm coming up on the end of my second month of paid membership, and looking back through my accomplishments I see that I have none. I've gotten too many messages to even begin to count. I've gotten maybe 10 or so contacts (phone numbers and / or emails). And yet I've been on a single M&G that did not go anywhere. And I see that I am squarely to blame.

I've read that this is a numbers game so obviously what I need to do is work on my funnel and go on more M&Gs. More failed M&Gs means that a successful one is that much closer.

I've practiced the intro message and do well there. I've even practiced the couple follow up messages and am getting pretty decent at getting either a phone number or email. The "secret" is literally just make small talk. Just make small talk until they offer up the contact info. Nothing more, nothing less. No sex talk, no arrangement talk, no anything, really. Just talk about what you did last weekend. What you're going to do next weekend. What the weather is like. At some point, with some ladies it is sooner, and some ladies it is later, they will drop a number. Easy.

Where my funnel breaks down is converting these numbers into M&Gs / FCs. I do not understand how to transition from talking about weather to talking about dollars per meet / sexual preferences in texts or emails. Perhaps that's the weakness of my strategy. Perhaps by being too nice and ensuring access to contact info it weakens the funnel down the line because I am not per-qualifying appropriately.

I have gotten the full spectrum of messages, however. From endless penpal style talks of the weather to first message into single email with an attached crotch shot and full a la carte menu. Sometimes I feel it is less what I say and more whoever I am saying it to. Still, I am not really in search of obvious pros /UTRs. If I was I would just follow up with every "hey" message I get, which is tons.

The question that is hidden in here is what is the progression or "tempo", of you will, of messages on SA and the followup text / emails? Obviously this varies but anyone want to take a stab at some general guidelines? Also, how does one first broach the subject.

In closing I will say the worst question I've been faced with is "what's your ideal arrangement?" Do I really just say 1 time a week for $$ in a mid range hotel halfway between me and you, I'll bring the refreshments if you bring the entertainment and drop the mic? Advice here is appreciated.

One step at a time.

Cruzier.

[Tidad]

Bingo, word of mouth.

There is a sorority at VCU that happens to have a lot of SBs, they all know each other and talk.

Why all the mystery? Why not say which sorority?

[Taylor Taste]

Total waste of time. She wanted to know details of my past arrangements and how "compensation" for her time would be provided per activity.

She is on and off SA so much that she won't be much of a lawyer if she can't negotiate a long term deal for herself.

Yes. I'm quite sure there's a pretty clear and direct relationship between setting clear expectations as to compensation for her work and failure in the many varied career paths she may take with her JD.

[DWinthrop]

I had one tell me last summer I had a reputation of moving on after a few dates. She blocked me before I could reply to that. I have unknowingly been out with SA roomates and ones that had friends on SA. So that reputation may be word of mouth not from a list somewhere.

Bingo, word of mouth.

There is a sorority at VCU that happens to have a lot of SBs, they all know each other and talk.

[DWinthrop]

Don't underestimate these girls. They suck at adulting maybe but theyre on top of their game when it comes to texting & social media.

I've also seen them post notes, both positive & negative using the Mr Number app. I check my play & real cell number from time to time. Nothing on my real number but my play number has a comment, "Bell Road Guy, very nice & tips". Was left a few years ago from a regular traveling escort I use to see when she came to town. She also White Listed me on TER, which was nice of her.

Another reason for using a burner or second number texting app. A few times fellow Mongers have texted me & must have been using their work phones. The company or organization they worked for automatically showed instead of the number they were texting me from. I let one Monger know to give him a heads up & I think he flipped out. Never heard from him again.

I downloaded the app when it was free to know when telemarketers were calling my cell. Now you can download a paid version that will give you the name of anyone texting or calling from a land line or cell. Of course no info from a burner or texting app, so far.

I think there is definitely a word of mouth reputation thing. But the college / amateur SBs don't keep a communally updated "list" The UTR / escorts types, certainly have some more formal ratings etc.

However, I get a new profile every time I pay for a month of SA, specifically so I don't run into these issues.

I have been with two 18 yo VCU students who are roommates and on the site, they obviously communicate. Turns out there are about 10 girls in a sorority who do this, and they obviously compare notes. But the idea of them sharing an organized "List" with their friends at other colleges is silly.

A daily list would be an awful of of work, and most of 18-21 college girls I'm banging from SA aren't on it because they like to work hard.

[DoggieFan]

I'd like to know more about the list? Is it on facebook, or instagram? Email?

To be honest, it sounds a little more organized than these ****** are capable of.

Don't underestimate these girls. They suck at adulting maybe but theyre on top of their game when it comes to texting & social media.

I've also seen them post notes, both positive & negative using the Mr Number app. I check my play & real cell number from time to time. Nothing on my real number but my play number has a comment, "Bell Road Guy, very nice & tips". Was left a few years ago from a regular traveling escort I use to see when she came to town. She also White Listed me on TER, which was nice of her.

Another reason for using a burner or second number texting app. A few times fellow Mongers have texted me & must have been using their work phones. The company or organization they worked for automatically showed instead of the number they were texting me from. I let one Monger know to give him a heads up & I think he flipped out. Never heard from him again.

I downloaded the app when it was free to know when telemarketers were calling my cell. Now you can download a paid version that will give you the name of anyone texting or calling from a land line or cell. Of course no info from a burner or texting app, so far.