"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[DrSummer]

I completely agree the future of SA depends on how Mr. Wade is going to play his cards and how fast he does it. The new SESTA is so broad and overreaching on digital content, SA is not out of the hook. Mr. Wade has a business to run, and make profit, I hope he makes some smart choices. For the SB end he can weed out girls to make a distinction between sugaring and escorting. Also on SD side, will he go only premium paid membership and collect some personal information from joining members? I am sure we will have to give away some of our anonymity to play the game in the future. Personally I would rather give some of my information if SA becomes a cleaner site than what it is now (I don't have a SO, I have the luxury of doing that, most others may not have that luxary). But, the sugar bowl is definitely going to change its complexion.

Stay Safe.

Dr. S.

If you do an advanced search on my posts from around the mid 2015 time frame, using "trafficking" as a keyword, you can read some of my thoughts about threats to the hobby (sugaring hobby that is, not mongering). Some of those predictions are showing signs of coming full circle, even though at the time some folks said it would never happen.

I do think the sugaring lifestyle as we've come to know it (enjoying on line conveniences) is in danger, and I hope the SD sites find a clever way to deal with the issue.

The bright side for sugaring is that unlike prostitution, it's not illegal. The risks mostly revolve around the idiots that don't know the difference. I don't see how the seizure of BP domains could not lead to more riff-raff trying to convert to the sugar scene, and unfortunately there will be mongers seeking same there, and it's that sort of activity that creates ambiguity around the differences between mongering and sugaring.

So there is a definitely a risk looming, and may seem shallow to summarize it this way, but the short-term outcome is probably going to hinge almost completely on how Brandon Wade plays his cards. Will he try to implement AI algorithms to weed out mongers and escorts? Will he approach preserving SA through legal tactics? As long as online dating sites exist, there will always be sugaring opportunity for those who know how to find it. But whether it stays as easy and convenient as it is today is going to be the result of pretty much one man's decisions.

[JZLizard]

It was a matter of time. You guys may already know BP has been shut down as of this morning. Also TER has decided to block its content to US users. What effects will this have on SA?

1. Will all the escorts in BP try to get into SA and make it a further mess?

2. Will SA be the next target?

3. Will SA take stern actions to clean up and make sure escorts don't get in so that they can stay in business? That would be good for us who are tired of the mess in SA now.

4. How will the SBs on SA react knowing that BP is not an option anymore?

Stay Safe.

Dr. S.

If you do an advanced search on my posts from around the mid 2015 time frame, using "trafficking" as a keyword, you can read some of my thoughts about threats to the hobby (sugaring hobby that is, not mongering). Some of those predictions are showing signs of coming full circle, even though at the time some folks said it would never happen.

I do think the sugaring lifestyle as we've come to know it (enjoying on line conveniences) is in danger, and I hope the SD sites find a clever way to deal with the issue.

The bright side for sugaring is that unlike prostitution, it's not illegal. The risks mostly revolve around the idiots that don't know the difference. I don't see how the seizure of BP domains could not lead to more riff-raff trying to convert to the sugar scene, and unfortunately there will be mongers seeking same there, and it's that sort of activity that creates ambiguity around the differences between mongering and sugaring.

So there is a definitely a risk looming, and may seem shallow to summarize it this way, but the short-term outcome is probably going to hinge almost completely on how Brandon Wade plays his cards. Will he try to implement AI algorithms to weed out mongers and escorts? Will he approach preserving SA through legal tactics? As long as online dating sites exist, there will always be sugaring opportunity for those who know how to find it. But whether it stays as easy and convenient as it is today is going to be the result of pretty much one man's decisions.

[RVASpider]

Heh. No offense, but I never share info on girls, or ask for it from others. I know some are into it, but I operate so far away from the UTR / Pro end of the spectrum, that I really cannot think of one of my SBs that would be anything other than horrified that I tried to pass her off to someone. Now, many of them would likely be open to me bringing in another girl or maybe a buddy for a threesome, but I'm not really into that so I never ask.

I can't explain the recent decline in camera shyness. As recent as just a few years ago I used to have a hell of a time getting them to do this on the first date, yet more and more I find them saying yes.

I have no interest in a threesome either! I met a girl for drinks last night and she let me videotape. No face shots though.

[JZLizard]

Good information here. I've never done the calcs but I do fairly well. My target is 18-21. The thing I've found is that you have to strike fast. If you give them to much time they are gone to the next guy.

For me, the kink is in filming them before and during the first fuck. For some reason, filming them after I've fucked them prior doesn't hold the same adrenaline rush. I think part of it may be the elevated risk of them saying no on the first date.

I have learned one thing for sure -- it's never a good idea to test the waters prior to the first actual FC visit. I believe I've scared a few off that way.

[JZLizard]

60% is fantastic. I haven't talked to any of them about filming but I may need to get some of the screen names from you of those that agreed to it!

Heh. No offense, but I never share info on girls, or ask for it from others. I know some are into it, but I operate so far away from the UTR / Pro end of the spectrum, that I really cannot think of one of my SBs that would be anything other than horrified that I tried to pass her off to someone. Now, many of them would likely be open to me bringing in another girl or maybe a buddy for a threesome, but I'm not really into that so I never ask.

I can't explain the recent decline in camera shyness. As recent as just a few years ago I used to have a hell of a time getting them to do this on the first date, yet more and more I find them saying yes.

[DrSummer]

It was a matter of time. You guys may already know BP has been shut down as of this morning. Also TER has decided to block its content to US users. What effects will this have on SA?

1. Will all the escorts in BP try to get into SA and make it a further mess?

2. Will SA be the next target?

3. Will SA take stern actions to clean up and make sure escorts don't get in so that they can stay in business? That would be good for us who are tired of the mess in SA now.

4. How will the SBs on SA react knowing that BP is not an option anymore?

Stay Safe.

Dr. S.

[AOneFred7734]

Damn. Thanks for sending this over. I tried to search a few phone numbers last night from my last round of SA before premium expired. Plate was too full to really invest time with these ladies at the time but I stored them for later because of their FB profiles. Now I don't know who is who because I can no longer even see their digits on SA unless I pony up 90 more. Between SA raising rates. New congress online sex laws. FB removing recon abilities and hardened pros invading SA due to BP and CL decline. Things will get tougher. Double damn. Ripper.

If a sb give her number to you retype it back to her and it will be there. They just turn her side off.

[GoneForDays]

Sorry, but what is FC? I'm ramping up for a few MGs, hopefully I can get a room.

[Ripvan12]

No more we can search by phone number here is the article https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/04...g-data-access/.

Damn. Thanks for sending this over. I tried to search a few phone numbers last night from my last round of SA before premium expired. Plate was too full to really invest time with these ladies at the time but I stored them for later because of their FB profiles. Now I don't know who is who because I can no longer even see their digits on SA unless I pony up 90 more. Between SA raising rates. New congress online sex laws. FB removing recon abilities and hardened pros invading SA due to BP and CL decline. Things will get tougher. Double damn. Ripper.

[RobHere]

No more we can search by phone number here is the article https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/04...g-data-access/.

[FruitNinja]

Just some general thoughts:

Stats and success rates -- I almost feel guilty to say I have a 100% MG to FC conversion rate, minus one anomaly that happened 5 years ago, and one girl that I denied a trip to the FC (she wasn't as attractive as pics) about 2 years ago. I believe the reason has everything to do with my vetting process (which girls I choose, and which ones get filtered out early), and the general conversation and interaction invested with each one. All is far from perfect, though, the statistic I should probably be monitoring more closely are the ones that get generally flaky before the M&G is arranged. I've had no problems with no-shows to the M&G, but I do have the occasional problem with someone enthusiastically wanting to meet, then on the day that I ask for their availability, they want to reschedule because of car trouble or whatever. And in many cases the flake reason is real, for example they will say they can only meet if I come pick them up (due to the car trouble), but they might be like 45 minutes away from where they knew I was going to be, and simply failed to plan better. I'd really like to solve that problem, but the only solution so far is to line up a first and second string in each city I travel to, so that I have a chance of lining up a date with someone else if the one I really want falls through.

In terms of conversation templates, I think personalizing your intro letter is overall a good idea. In general, I'm not a fan of templates though. I keep my first contact very brief but unlock a private (real and recent) photo of myself. I used to paste in a default intro, but I don't even do that anymore, because I figure a simple hello plus a pic is enough that she will bite if interested. I also prefer that they do this with their intro or first message to me instead of sending me a highly personalized greeting. Part of the reason for this is because things that are said in a profile are open to interpretation, and sometimes they will indicate some interpretation of what I said that isn't exactly what I meant, and thus it does more harm than simple small talk. I saw this happen enough times (and got tired of things being incorrectly read into my profile) that I decided to reduce it to just a few sentences that avoid specificity about anything -- just filler material. It seems to work better for me. I've heard HR recruiters say that putting an objective on a resume works against you more than it helps, because it can have a categorizing effect that leads to many potentially false conclusions about you. I think the same principle applies here. I once got a VERY personalized intro letter, where the girl wrote a staggering amount of text, great depth all of the things she saw in me based on my profile. I'm not sure what she was trying to accomplish, but it did not impress me. She was attractive, but I was no more attracted to her after the detailed intro, in fact it actually raised some concerns, because I thought to myself : "my god if that much effort went into her intro letter, what kind of texts is she going to be smothering me with after I bang her?"

Back to stats, one statistic I'm starting to pay more attention to (or perhaps increase) is my success in getting an SB to agree to a photo shoot (well. Ok. Amateur porn) on the first date. I used to find that a lot of them are just too shy or nervous about this. However, for whatever reason I'm getting better at talking them into being keen on the idea; if they say they don't want to, I drop the idea and don't press it. I think the current generation of 18-25 yr olds has been raised with the idea that filming sex acts are just a part of life. Getting them to do this has always been easier on date #2 or later, but my recent success rate on first date videos is about 60%, and I'd like to bring that up to 80%. These are all non-utr types. I'm sure success rate would increase if I lowered my standard, but I'm not interested in utr or pros.

Good information here. I've never done the calcs but I do fairly well. My target is 18-21. The thing I've found is that you have to strike fast. If you give them to much time they are gone to the next guy.

[RVASpider]

Just some general thoughts:

Stats and success rates -- I almost feel guilty to say I have a 100% MG to FC conversion rate, minus one anomaly that happened 5 years ago, and one girl that I denied a trip to the FC (she wasn't as attractive as pics) about 2 years ago. I believe the reason has everything to do with my vetting process (which girls I choose, and which ones get filtered out early), and the general conversation and interaction invested with each one. All is far from perfect, though, the statistic I should probably be monitoring more closely are the ones that get generally flaky before the M&G is arranged. I've had no problems with no-shows to the M&G, but I do have the occasional problem with someone enthusiastically wanting to meet, then on the day that I ask for their availability, they want to reschedule because of car trouble or whatever. And in many cases the flake reason is real, for example they will say they can only meet if I come pick them up (due to the car trouble), but they might be like 45 minutes away from where they knew I was going to be, and simply failed to plan better. I'd really like to solve that problem, but the only solution so far is to line up a first and second string in each city I travel to, so that I have a chance of lining up a date with someone else if the one I really want falls through..

60% is fantastic. I haven't talked to any of them about filming but I may need to get some of the screen names from you of those that agreed to it!

[S2568]

I have these two girls turned out to be roommates wanting to get together asking for 8 $ for trio and one is OK with 3. Any of you had any input to share PM if you want.

https://www.seekingarrangement.com/m...2-acc45e198b37

Second on is germinthang, this one took out the profile unless she blocked me.

Let me know, please.

Thanks.

[JZLizard]

I read through the FAQ's page on here and found some great info. It looks like Richmond is the top forum in reference to good information for SD's. Thanks to everyone here who contributes its been great info.

My Currently stats:

I have been using SA for 11 months now. I have indulged 19 women off this site. Mostly no pro college girls between 18 and 24. Average damage is $$ plus entertainment costs. Average time seeing the girls continuously is about 30 to 60 days before it fizzles out. I spend a lot of time on SA and would like to make it more efficient. Over time my response and M at G numbers have gone down probably about 30% respond and I am able to get a M at G with 1 out of 4 of those. Getting to the FC on the M at G is at like 80% now though as all expectations are laid out in front.

Process 1 with expectations laid out:

1. Initial message just saying, Hi I think we are on the same page and mentioning something that shows I read her profile and am interested. 30% response.

2. Small talk 1 to 2 messages. 50% response (the girls lose interest fast here if you don't get to the point).

3. Message with my expectations, allowance, and ground rules for the M at G and potential compensation. 20% response but this fluctuates time of year, Christmas and New Years was much higher with much for success. Depends on how money dependent the girl is.

After this point success is very high.

4. Meet and a nice place for drinks or coffee. Flakes less then 1 in 10.

5. FC 80% of those.

I have had some success in the past with not explaining the expectations and allowance until the meeting and we are having a good time. I have gotten two without providing any compensation doing this but takes time for a date that has a higher chance of a date not ending up at FC.

Process 2 without discussing arrangement terms before meetings.

1. Hello message 30% response.

2. Small Talk 50% response.

3. M at G 40% response.

4. FC 60% of those that show up at M at G.

Process one leads to less dates but higher closing ratio on dates spend. Process 2 can be fun but is more time consuming and you get the occasional GPS girl who gets upset about the terms that you have to deal with in person. I am feeling the girls out to see who is in need of money the most that's who tends to go for process 1. Process 2 is better on those who are new and don't know what they are looking for or what they are doing.

Anyone have a good general opening line template and expectations template? It looks like best practice to use a template but cut in something from the SB's profile to make it personal. Hollywoodguy has some templates but am looking for something shorter and less template looking. I would like to raise the initial response rate and the response to the expectations and allowance part. Also any general feedback would be great!

Just some general thoughts:

Stats and success rates -- I almost feel guilty to say I have a 100% MG to FC conversion rate, minus one anomaly that happened 5 years ago, and one girl that I denied a trip to the FC (she wasn't as attractive as pics) about 2 years ago. I believe the reason has everything to do with my vetting process (which girls I choose, and which ones get filtered out early), and the general conversation and interaction invested with each one. All is far from perfect, though, the statistic I should probably be monitoring more closely are the ones that get generally flaky before the M&G is arranged. I've had no problems with no-shows to the M&G, but I do have the occasional problem with someone enthusiastically wanting to meet, then on the day that I ask for their availability, they want to reschedule because of car trouble or whatever. And in many cases the flake reason is real, for example they will say they can only meet if I come pick them up (due to the car trouble), but they might be like 45 minutes away from where they knew I was going to be, and simply failed to plan better. I'd really like to solve that problem, but the only solution so far is to line up a first and second string in each city I travel to, so that I have a chance of lining up a date with someone else if the one I really want falls through.

In terms of conversation templates, I think personalizing your intro letter is overall a good idea. In general, I'm not a fan of templates though. I keep my first contact very brief but unlock a private (real and recent) photo of myself. I used to paste in a default intro, but I don't even do that anymore, because I figure a simple hello plus a pic is enough that she will bite if interested. I also prefer that they do this with their intro or first message to me instead of sending me a highly personalized greeting. Part of the reason for this is because things that are said in a profile are open to interpretation, and sometimes they will indicate some interpretation of what I said that isn't exactly what I meant, and thus it does more harm than simple small talk. I saw this happen enough times (and got tired of things being incorrectly read into my profile) that I decided to reduce it to just a few sentences that avoid specificity about anything -- just filler material. It seems to work better for me. I've heard HR recruiters say that putting an objective on a resume works against you more than it helps, because it can have a categorizing effect that leads to many potentially false conclusions about you. I think the same principle applies here. I once got a VERY personalized intro letter, where the girl wrote a staggering amount of text, great depth all of the things she saw in me based on my profile. I'm not sure what she was trying to accomplish, but it did not impress me. She was attractive, but I was no more attracted to her after the detailed intro, in fact it actually raised some concerns, because I thought to myself : "my god if that much effort went into her intro letter, what kind of texts is she going to be smothering me with after I bang her?"

Back to stats, one statistic I'm starting to pay more attention to (or perhaps increase) is my success in getting an SB to agree to a photo shoot (well. Ok. Amateur porn) on the first date. I used to find that a lot of them are just too shy or nervous about this. However, for whatever reason I'm getting better at talking them into being keen on the idea; if they say they don't want to, I drop the idea and don't press it. I think the current generation of 18-25 yr olds has been raised with the idea that filming sex acts are just a part of life. Getting them to do this has always been easier on date #2 or later, but my recent success rate on first date videos is about 60%, and I'd like to bring that up to 80%. These are all non-utr types. I'm sure success rate would increase if I lowered my standard, but I'm not interested in utr or pros.

[MaxxLapper]

I've had one that said it was platonic only, went out for drinks, and ended up having fun in my car that night. It was fantastic and I've seen her twice since then.

RVA very interesting you had that experience. I usually avoid the ones that have platonic in their profiles because they seem to be the most likely to scam us. And yet, you had success, good game, good job. Thanks for sharing.