"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[JZLizard]

Did Fred hit the nail on the head or what?

Yep. You lay the ground rules, not her. Most women are attracted to authority (overwhelmingly true of SBs), and the more you can exert (while of course remaining tactful and charming) the more it will work to your advantage.

It's a delicate balance; you don't ask her what she wants to do, and you don't tell her what she has to do... You suggest what the two of you WILL do in a way that sounds like you've got it all worked out and she will respect you for it, be more attracted to you for it, and most of the time it will work out in your favor. Exceptions will occur but you take the losses with the wins. Women are women and the game is the game. Sharpen your skills in the sugarbowl and it will help you in general interactions with women and dating (and vice versa). It doesn't matter if there is money in an envelope on the table or not -- women just are what they are and it's about understanding what they think and respect.

[Golfcart]

Did Fred hit the nail on the head or what?

Remember, you are in charge because she wants your money. She doesn't care about sex with an old dude and she is not your friend. She wants your money. So make it easy to earn your money. Never say "if our dates will be platonic or what? There is NEVER an acceptable scenario where sex is an option. It is a sure thing or move on.

[HollywoodGuy]

My sweet spot seems to be about 22-23, but there are always exceptions. Met an 18 year old white-blonde-spinner off of CL (one of the few times it has not been a total waste). She was on the fast track to UTR if not already there. Texted back and forth for a couple of weeks before she asked me to come pick her up at her apartment complex. I got there and had to ask for her I'd, just to be sure. Took her back to my place and she proceeded to blow me away. I broke out a toy, she showed me some light bondage pics of herself she had had taken (I'm sure that guy had a good afternoon as well) and we played very nicely together. She talked about wanting to be a porn star, and two minutes later about how she wanted a SD who really cared about her. I tried to plant the thought that I was that guy for her, but she is too scattered or too busy working other guys off of CL to bite. I have been trying to setup a follow-up for over a month with no luck, she always responds to texts quickly and wants to get together, but is always "at my Nana's house" (seriously) or getting high, or whatever. Anyway, it was a great one-off.

I know, not long ago I had a one off (technically two) that was freakin amazing. I put her in my top ten of all time. She told me I was her last client. She was a pro and already retired (only 22) due to being married and wanting to start a family. She was on the sd site for maybe one day (due to financial issues). The bigger point is, if you truly can catch them on the first day, be ready to follow up immediately, because by the second or third day they realize this is not what they want to do. YMMV but its so worth it. No future in it. But a great memory all the same. I have seen 9 quality level girls do this. Can't count how many I let slip through my fingers because they were an hour drive I just could"t make that day. Sometimes it's about feeling desperate for money, sometimes curiosity or sometimes it's just "fuck the world (or guys in general), I am going to do what I want to do". And then they never do it again. Or they step it up and you cant afford them anymore. A 9 quality girl that i passed on that I met through a friend, that started by doing $ BBFS sessions, is now up to a K a day only a year later. Lately the game has me worn out. I am seriously considering just looking for a hot older girl if I can find the right one (no kids please) to be my next sb, a true np that just needs a little something extra now and then.

[FyrGuy33]

Some very interesting reading here gentlemen. I feel the need to add some of my rules to all the good advice that has been offered. I always let a POT know that I do not pay for anyone to sit and have conversation with me. If I want to just do that, I can stay home with my wife. As Fred stated, no $$ until the panties hit the floor. I always meet them in public for a cocktail or lunch before taking them to the fc. I usually make that a separate date as I do not like to commit to the fc with them until I talk with them first. More than once they turn out to be mental patients I would rather not get involved with. The maximum I will start out with is $150. If they are looking for more, I tell them they can show me why they deserve more, but we are starting out at that. Only twice have I gone to $200, and that was because both ended up just being amazing. I also have some strict communication rules. If they are challenged with that, I move on. I will not spend any time trying to chase them down because they care little about my time. Also, they need to be able to tell time and be on time. Most of us have "windows of opportunity" to see them. Constant tardiness is an insult. Again, I move on to the next one.

Remember, the pool is full of new SB talent. None of them are so good that we need to accept any of their bullshit. I hope this is of value here.

[Dsprdo]

My sweet spot seems to be about 22-23, but there are always exceptions. Met an 18 year old white-blonde-spinner off of CL (one of the few times it has not been a total waste). She was on the fast track to UTR if not already there. Texted back and forth for a couple of weeks before she asked me to come pick her up at her apartment complex. I got there and had to ask for her I'd, just to be sure. Took her back to my place and she proceeded to blow me away. I broke out a toy, she showed me some light bondage pics of herself she had had taken (I'm sure that guy had a good afternoon as well) and we played very nicely together. She talked about wanting to be a porn star, and two minutes later about how she wanted a SD who really cared about her. I tried to plant the thought that I was that guy for her, but she is too scattered or too busy working other guys off of CL to bite. I have been trying to setup a follow-up for over a month with no luck, she always responds to texts quickly and wants to get together, but is always "at my Nana's house" (seriously) or getting high, or whatever. Anyway, it was a great one-off.

[Peter Revvie]

Walruscl:

I think "Max" is right on with a few tips on Threesomes.

1. Let the SB be "in charge" of the 3rd player, if the chemistry isn't there then nobody is having fun.

2. Strip Club as a "trolling" spot. If it is a good, fully nude preferable club, going (or suggesting to go) with your SB can be a way to confirm "what kind of girl would you be interested in? Which gives you the innocent opportunity to take the SB to a club, buy some lap dances for HER (the SB) from strippers she is attracted to, and see what happens. Many strippers are bi, and with your SB making the shots and you taking a more passive role you will find out quickly what your SB has as preferences. Plus you will have a great evening after you leave the club!

If your SB is in charge of the 3rd player, if things don't work out it's not your idea. If you have limited personal availability for the SB this all may be too complicated from the start. Good luck!

Stay Safe!!

PR.

I have had 20+ threesomes. I'm actually not that into them because there is only one of me and they rarely turn out as good as planned. Very few sexual experiences are as good if they require too much planning and threesomes usually require a lot of planning. It works best when it is the girls idea. The best times I've had is taking a girl to s stripclub and she really hit it off with a dancer who decided to come home with us.

In summary, it needs to be the girls call, but you can create the right environment (going to a strip club togetheer). Always best if it is more spontaneous and involves a woman I'm very interested in.

Good luck!

[HollywoodGuy]

18 to19 - hot looking, hard to get, usually not great in bed, but fun to play with.

20 to 22 - got, getting or wanting to get their skills up. Much easier to get going with asap.

23 to 27 - obviously more experienced but the financial needs are starting to get bigger.

Over 27 - don't go there too often. Much harder to find the true spinners in there. And the ones that still are put a greater dollar value on their looks.

Will not have an allowanced (is that a word?) SB if she has a kid. Too many expenses.

[HollywoodGuy]

Well, I found out which direction the College POT relationship was going, and it sure wasn't the direction I wanted. We had a nice M&G that went well, so this week we agree to meet up for dinner and a movie at local mall, and since we'd have some time between the two, I'd figure we'd walk around the mall for a while also. After we sit down for dinner, she tells me she may not be able to go to the movie after all, because she's busy studying for finals and stuff. I understand and agree to just dinner and walking around the mall. While we're in the middle of eating, she asks how I handle allowances and such. I felt uncomfortable discussing this with people around us in the restaurant, so I deflect her question. After we're done eating and we start walking around the mall, I ask her if dates will be platonic or what? Keep in mind, she assured me our arrangement would be mutually beneficial, but as of yet, there have been no discussions of what her idea of that is. She tells me she's not sure how platonic or physical they'll be and that it would have to be discussed at some future point. Fair enough, but my Spider-Sense is already tingling that this girl expects to be paid for platonic "hanging out".

So we go into a store and I want to find a couple of new shirts for myself. She helps me pick out a couple, then she's walking around the store getting a few things for herself. I think that she's going to be buying the stuff for herself, but when we go to checkout, she puts the stuff right in with my shirts I picked out. Not wanting to make a scene in front of the cashier and not wanting to discuss our lack of agreed upon arrangement in such a public place, I bit the bullet and paid for about 250 dollars of clothing for her. The rest of the time walking through the mall, I'm fuming. When we part ways in the parking lot, I don't get so much as a hug or a nice thank you for the clothes I bought for her. A reminder to myself and to my brothers out there to make sure that you and POT are on the same page with *everything* before you get hooked into buying her stuff or giving her sugar.

SA has been a complete bust for me so far this time out. My CL ads continue to generate a nibble or two, but nothing definite and / or interesting as of yet.

If you haven't discussed anything sexual at all prior to the meet and greet then there is no reason to have one.

[JZLizard]

I don't mind doing dating activities (I.e., dinner and a movie) with a SB because, unlike a lot of my brothers, I'm single outside of the sugar bowl. So it's nice to have an attractive young lady to go and do things with other than hitting the FC. But I won't give sugar for just platonic dates, as I usually make clear. But since this girl assured me before our M&G that our arrangement would be mutually beneficial, it seemed like she was on board with being physical also. It wasn't until midway through this last date that she gave any indication that she wasn't sure what those mutual benefits would be.

I'm technically single, and really single when my girlfriend travels for weeks at a time. But yes, I'm like you in that I like to make a date of it. I probably wouldn't go to a movie with an SB unless there were a film I really wanted to see that I was planning to see by myself anyway. In other words once an SB is involved there's a chance she'll get to the theatre and go "oooh can we see that instead" and it's some chick flick with Julia Roberts in it or something. For that reason I just wouldn't do movies at all (See foot note at bottom). Also with most movies being around 2 hours in length, some of these girls may feel like they are doing you a favor by sitting in a dark theatre watching the movie (I.e. They gave you 2 hours of their company and should be thusly compensated).

I do highly recommend the dinner M&G, since of course you're enjoying half the cost for yourself and thus your potential loss is minimized, and it's how the typical first date starts out in a normal civvy dating online meeting anyway (in my experience I should say). You could save a few bucks by making it a lunch meeting, but I think you've got a better chance of going straight from dinner to the FC if it's dinner, and in the evening rather than during the day. The next question is simply where the FC is from there. I'm always traveling when I meet an SB, so I already have a hotel room that I'm set up in. When possible, it's nice to get a hotel that has a decent restaurant in or near it, because then the FC is just an elevator ride away. Nice hotels cost a little more, but if your stay is one night and a few more bucks per night puts you in such an easy position to slip away from the dinner table or bar straight to the room, it greatly increases your chance of scoring on the M&G so money well spent. Every time I've done this I've gotten laid and not one of them talked money before the act, I just gifted them after the fact.


foot note* I did want to qualify my "no movies" advice a bit and say that for the single guys, having a nice TV / home theatre system / digital cable or sat can be a big bonus in any sort of dating. I don't bring SBs back to my house these days because my GF, but I always found a nice TV set up goes a long way on the dates I did bring back. First because you can say "do you like porn?" and throw in a porn disc, and before you know it she'll have her hand in your zipper. All of this assumes of course that you know the girl well enough to let her know where you live, a risk that decreases dramatically when you're single. I never had a problem bringing civvy girls I just met at a bar home, but I would be a little more cautious about doing that on the first date with SBs, maybe that's just me. Also if its someone you want to see more, the TV inspires her to come visit more often because she most likely has a crappy TV with limited channels wherever she lives, even if she streams Netflix to her tablet or whatever... once she gets the remote and starts channel flipping she'll get absorbed and stick around a while.

[FotoGuy1970]

Sorry for your loss brother but you did that to yourself. Cardinal rule is " NO $$ until the panties hit the floor " An exception is the M&G at which you treat the Pot to a nice dinner and drinks. PERIOD. Do not go shopping where you will be put in that awkward situation. And what's with going to a movie? I know we are all different, but what most of us want is to hit the FC as soon as possible, not sit in a movie, unless she is going to blow you in the back row. .

Remember, you are in charge because she wants your money. She doesn't care about sex with an old dude and she is not your friend. She wants your money. So make it easy to earn your money. Never say " if our dates will be platonic or what? There is NEVER an acceptable scenario where sex is an option. It is a sure thing or move on .

Instead say " I find you so sexy and you are my kind of girl. I would like to spend some private time together soon ".

She tells me she's not sure how platonic or physical they'll be and that it would have to be discussed at some future point. At this juncture you might say that " you will discuss her allowance at the same time you discuss physical activities. ".

My Spider-Sense is already tingling that this girl expects to be paid for platonic "hanging out". Of COURSE she does! She has already read you as an easy mark. You are probably a nice guy but be a little more demanding. You might say. I would like to begin an arrangement with you so that we can both get what we want. Let's discuss it right now.

I don't mind doing dating activities (I.e., dinner and a movie) with a SB because, unlike a lot of my brothers, I'm single outside of the sugar bowl. So it's nice to have an attractive young lady to go and do things with other than hitting the FC. But I won't give sugar for just platonic dates, as I usually make clear. But since this girl assured me before our M&G that our arrangement would be mutually beneficial, it seemed like she was on board with being physical also. It wasn't until midway through this last date that she gave any indication that she wasn't sure what those mutual benefits would be.

[FredMoore]

Well, I found out which direction the College POT relationship was going, and it sure wasn't the direction I wanted.

I bit the bullet and paid for about 250 dollars of clothing for her. The rest of the time walking through the mall, I'm fuming. When we part ways in the parking lot, I don't get so much as a hug or a nice thank you for the clothes I bought for her. A reminder to myself and to my brothers out there to make sure that you and POT are on the same page with *everything* before you get hooked into buying her stuff or giving her sugar.

SA has been a complete bust for me so far this time out. My CL ads continue to generate a nibble or two, but nothing definite and / or interesting as of yet.

Sorry for your loss brother but you did that to yourself. Cardinal rule is " NO $$ until the panties hit the floor " An exception is the M&G at which you treat the Pot to a nice dinner and drinks. PERIOD. Do not go shopping where you will be put in that awkward situation. And what's with going to a movie? I know we are all different, but what most of us want is to hit the FC as soon as possible, not sit in a movie, unless she is going to blow you in the back row. .

Remember, you are in charge because she wants your money. She doesn't care about sex with an old dude and she is not your friend. She wants your money. So make it easy to earn your money. Never say " if our dates will be platonic or what? There is NEVER an acceptable scenario where sex is an option. It is a sure thing or move on .

Instead say " I find you so sexy and you are my kind of girl. I would like to spend some private time together soon ".

She tells me she's not sure how platonic or physical they'll be and that it would have to be discussed at some future point. At this juncture you might say that " you will discuss her allowance at the same time you discuss physical activities. ".

My Spider-Sense is already tingling that this girl expects to be paid for platonic "hanging out". Of COURSE she does! She has already read you as an easy mark. You are probably a nice guy but be a little more demanding. You might say. I would like to begin an arrangement with you so that we can both get what we want. Let's discuss it right now.

[FotoGuy1970]

*College POT: Nice enough girl, met for dinner. She assured me in texts that the arrangement would be mutually beneficial, but there has been no discussion at all of specifics. We are planning on meeting up later this week, but no discussion of what kind of a date we're having. She's really attractive and I like her, but I have no idea where this particular relationship is going.

Well, I found out which direction the College POT relationship was going, and it sure wasn't the direction I wanted. We had a nice M&G that went well, so this week we agree to meet up for dinner and a movie at local mall, and since we'd have some time between the two, I'd figure we'd walk around the mall for a while also. After we sit down for dinner, she tells me she may not be able to go to the movie after all, because she's busy studying for finals and stuff. I understand and agree to just dinner and walking around the mall. While we're in the middle of eating, she asks how I handle allowances and such. I felt uncomfortable discussing this with people around us in the restaurant, so I deflect her question. After we're done eating and we start walking around the mall, I ask her if dates will be platonic or what? Keep in mind, she assured me our arrangement would be mutually beneficial, but as of yet, there have been no discussions of what her idea of that is. She tells me she's not sure how platonic or physical they'll be and that it would have to be discussed at some future point. Fair enough, but my Spider-Sense is already tingling that this girl expects to be paid for platonic "hanging out".

So we go into a store and I want to find a couple of new shirts for myself. She helps me pick out a couple, then she's walking around the store getting a few things for herself. I think that she's going to be buying the stuff for herself, but when we go to checkout, she puts the stuff right in with my shirts I picked out. Not wanting to make a scene in front of the cashier and not wanting to discuss our lack of agreed upon arrangement in such a public place, I bit the bullet and paid for about 250 dollars of clothing for her. The rest of the time walking through the mall, I'm fuming. When we part ways in the parking lot, I don't get so much as a hug or a nice thank you for the clothes I bought for her. A reminder to myself and to my brothers out there to make sure that you and POT are on the same page with *everything* before you get hooked into buying her stuff or giving her sugar.

SA has been a complete bust for me so far this time out. My CL ads continue to generate a nibble or two, but nothing definite and / or interesting as of yet.

[FotoGuy1970]

I personally have little or no interest in having a SB who's 30 or older, and if a SB is in her older 20's, that's even pushing it for me. I'm far more interested in the 18-24 girls.

[Marcus Weiner]

While we're discussing ages of women and girls, I'd like to share with you a story that happened to me last summer. I met a 40-something gal on whatsyourprice and we ended up in the FC after dinner. I was disappointed when I met her since her pics had been photoshopped in the face. She still had a nice body so I saw her once more before she began asking for more money from me. The straw that broke the camel's back was when she no showed for an early morning rendezvous. She said that she had overslept and would make it up to me when she came back from vacation next Thursday. At the same time I'm talking to a 19 yr-old from the same part of town. She was eager for the FC but said she was going to the beach until next Thursday. Hmmm, now the gears are turning inside my head, but I'm thinking what are the chances of fucking mom, then a few weeks later the daughter. So on the night we're supposed to meet, she tells me that she has to bring the car to her mom since they share it. Out of curiosity I asked what it was, and it was the same car as the 40-something. She asks me if I can pick her up and without hesitation I jump in my car and off I go. This sexy young thing was a total freak and got me to drive to a local park. I took a blanket and pillow and down to the soccer field we went at 2 in the morning. What a rush. Everything was available with me finishing all over her face and tits as she licked me clean. I dropped her off at home and headed home to go to bed. I was awakened at 9 am with a phone call from mom cursing me out and calling me a pervert. LOL, guilty. I guess on the way home I should haven't have told the daughter about fucking her mom 2 weeks earlier, LOL. MW.

[FredMoore]

Strange, I've experienced the opposite. For me, the younger they are, the less drama there is. But they just tend to be more flaky and unreliable.

The older they are, they tend to have more real expenses, bills, and responsibilities, which make them much more intense when things go wrong or if their expectations aren't met. But that's just been my experience.

Probably has to do that with the younger girls, I usually get the decent ones and not the Nando 1's. But with the older girls since I'm a relatively young guy, I just don't have much appeal with women over the age of 27. I'm too close to their age, so I probably don't attract the best MLF SBs. The few crazy SBs I met were all over the age of 25.

So I guess it's just a matter of self-selection. You may naturally attract the crazies from one group but not the other.

We all have our sweet spot based on our age and experience. My sweet spot is 25 to 28. Out of hundreds of candidates from 18 to 40 something the mid to upper 20's hits the spot. Here's a summary of something I submitted several years ago on this site. Several single / divorced friends were talking about it in their dating experience IRL, but I have found it true in Sugarland as well. I'm talking more about Nando 3's,college girls, not Nando 1's and Pros.

18 to 21 young and hot bodies but immature into partying. Sex is recreation to them but no emotional attachment involved. They are sexually inexperienced and have no pleasuring skills. They want to drink ,420, and stay out late. They have no money at all.

21 to 25 still into partying but superficial. Sex is still casual and although a little more experienced still don't know enough to read their man's needs. Finishing college, maybe early employment but no money. Needs are high monetarily. Intensely into friends and hard to get them alone and away from the phone.

25 to 28 have a job and some money. More mature, not so interested in going out to bars and staying up all night. Have accumulated some sexual skills and some knowledge of mens needs. Enjoy a classy date but are willing to stay in and snuggle. Not feeling the clock ticking yet and do not want commitment This is a group the term NSA was created for.

28 to 34 Most are married or divorced and some with kids. They are into careers or family and the biologic clock is ticking. They want a family They are starting to look for an SO and will be decent short time SBs to save up some money, or to survive. They are starting to get jaded if they have not become financially solvent or have had a decent SO.

35 to 39 all have kids who are in the tween and teen years. They need money to survive and are starting get desperate about the future. The kids create babysitting problems and availability is harder, especially at night. If they don't have an SO or money they are facing a life of struggle and looking at being an UTR or old girl SB. They are aging out.

40 to 50 teen kids to early grown. These Moms are the type whos' daughters are our targets, not them. Old age problems abound, menopause, sexual dysfunction and bitterness. They have little prospects of finding an SO. They love sex and can be good partners. Lots of experience and enjoyment though.

50 + FUGEDDABOUDIT!

I'm sure all you guys can add to this list with your own slant to it.