General Reports

[Comcast7777]

One possible explanation (even though I don't think it's a very likely one) is that there could be a budget issue at play.

I read the other day that the state has spent $116 million on housing and feeding migrants. This is an expense that would have been tough to quantify ahead of time. And the issue is not going away anytime soon.

The state has already announced the closing of MCI Concord by this summer (which had been open for something like 150 years) for financial reasons.

Obviously dismissing 10 misdemeanor cases isn't going to have a significant impact on the state's wallet. But I suppose it is possible that Healey was in someone's ear and told them to consolidate as much as possible.

Just thinking out loud.

[JmSuttr]

With all due respect, essentially none of what you wrote reflects how criminal cases are litigated in the Commonwealth.

Yes, only some of the defendants are purusing the 'privacy' issue that is before the SJC. That does not mean or even imply that the others have been dismissed out, or that there is some "problem" with the prosecutors' cases against them, etc. Not all defendants needed to pursue this issue in order for the prosecutors to decide to put a halt to the entire process whilst this issue is being decided.

The notion that the prosecutors didn't have their "ducks in a row" with respect to the so-called missing defendants is absolutely baseless. There clearly has not been enough process yet to even get to that conclusion. The prosecutors made decisions as to which defendants to charge. Absent litigation on the substance, of which there has been none, there would be zero reason for them to reverse course and dismiss defendants.

What's your explanation for the fact that 18 "John Doe" appeals have been filed, while 10 have not?

Here's the link where the info can be found:

https://www.ma-appellatecourts.org/

*Use docket number SJC-13551.

As I posted, I have yet to hear ANY theory that adequately explains why, out of the 28 announced cases, defense attorneys for 18 clients are pursuing the exact same path, while attorneys for at least 10 of them are not. There are 12 separate attorneys listed on the SJC docket, with some representing more than one client, while one client apparently has 3 attorneys representing him. So these several attorneys each came to the individual conclusion that their client's interests were best served by filing an appeal. What explanation is there as to why attorneys for at least 10 defendants (assuming 28 summons were issued) individually decided to take a materially different path? And, IMO, the most interesting aspect of this apparent bifurcation is that the numbers for each group are large enough to rule out randomness and the outlier effect. There's an obvious and coherent reason for why one group, the attorneys for the 18 defendants, chose their path. The reasoning for the other group, the 10 non-appeals, remains a mystery at this point.

Again, if you read my posts carefully you'll see that I'm not claiming to have the answer. Rather I'm posing the question and offering my take on some possibilities. So far, all explanations offered have been (IMO) lacking. Your point seems to be essentially a "move along folks, nothing to see here" position. If, with your knowledge of how criminal cases are litigated in the Commonwealth, you see nothing odd about these circumstances, then I respectfully beg to differ. And, of course, the great feature of this forum is that everyone gets to read and decide for themselves.

Speculations as to possible answers are, by definition, speculation. But that doesn't invalidate the underlying question.

[Bran001]

My point about possible issues with prosecutions is based primarily on what, at the moment, appears to be the reduction in the number of defendants from the originally announced 28 to either 18 or 14 (depending on the report you read).

Based on the number of parties to the SJC appeals, there appears to be an absence of 10-14 appeals that one would reasonably expect to see. A couple of theories have been floated, such as inability to afford a lawyer or waiting to see what the SJC decides. I've addressed in a previous post why I find those explanations unpersuasive. To be clear, I don't claim to know the reason. All I'm saying is that the discrepancy in numbers raises the question as to what's going on behind the scenes.

Bottom line: If all 28 cases were good to go at the time of announcement, 28 cases should be going forward, and one would expect 28 (or close to that number) appeals on the due process and privacy issues. I don't disagree that the delays have been procedural, but that doesn't explain the mystery of what appears to be 10-14 missing defendants. And it's that last point that makes me wonder whether LE and the prosecution truly had their ducks in a row for each and every case. Whatever the explanation, we'll know when things finally get moving again.

P.S. A member sent me a PM that mentioned the controversy regarding the filling of the vacant SJC seat. I replied that, if that serves as a distraction, or if the SJC decides to wait until they have a full complement of justices, we could see further delays. In my reply I also mentioned that, after peeling back the constitutional due process issue, the underlying cases are really just piss-ant misdemeanors. The reason that might be relevant is because the SJC may not see this as an issue that demands immediate attention. But I'm not in MA, so you locals would know better than I how the SJC might act.

With all due respect, essentially none of what you wrote reflects how criminal cases are litigated in the Commonwealth.

Yes, only some of the defendants are purusing the 'privacy' issue that is before the SJC. That does not mean or even imply that the others have been dismissed out, or that there is some "problem" with the prosecutors' cases against them, etc. Not all defendants needed to pursue this issue in order for the prosecutors to decide to put a halt to the entire process whilst this issue is being decided.

The notion that the prosecutors didn't have their "ducks in a row" with respect to the so-called missing defendants is absolutely baseless. There clearly has not been enough process yet to even get to that conclusion. The prosecutors made decisions as to which defendants to charge. Absent litigation on the substance, of which there has been none, there would be zero reason for them to reverse course and dismiss defendants.

[JmSuttr]

For what it's worth, most of the delays so far have been due to wrangling over court process. The various filings and rulings over whether to have public vs. Private probable cause hearings itself, which usually is just a pro forma part of the process, have taken weeks. It's not LE or the prosecutors who are dragging their feet. They seem to have had their cases ready for some time.

In terms of evidence, the charging documents for the three managers say that there was a long period of surveillance. So I'd expect photos of clients entering and exiting, possibly video from interior cameras, etc. Some clients were stopped outside and gave statements, which could be incriminatory for themselves or others. LE had warrants for phone records, so yeah, texts and so on. BTW, in criminal law, it's very common for convictions to be only on the basis of circumstantial evidence, so that in and of itself is not an issue for the prosecutors. It's really about the quality of the circumstantial evidence.

My point about possible issues with prosecutions is based primarily on what, at the moment, appears to be the reduction in the number of defendants from the originally announced 28 to either 18 or 14 (depending on the report you read).

Based on the number of parties to the SJC appeals, there appears to be an absence of 10-14 appeals that one would reasonably expect to see. A couple of theories have been floated, such as inability to afford a lawyer or waiting to see what the SJC decides. I've addressed in a previous post why I find those explanations unpersuasive. To be clear, I don't claim to know the reason. All I'm saying is that the discrepancy in numbers raises the question as to what's going on behind the scenes.

Bottom line: If all 28 cases were good to go at the time of announcement, 28 cases should be going forward, and one would expect 28 (or close to that number) appeals on the due process and privacy issues. I don't disagree that the delays have been procedural, but that doesn't explain the mystery of what appears to be 10-14 missing defendants. And it's that last point that makes me wonder whether LE and the prosecution truly had their ducks in a row for each and every case. Whatever the explanation, we'll know when things finally get moving again.

P.S. A member sent me a PM that mentioned the controversy regarding the filling of the vacant SJC seat. I replied that, if that serves as a distraction, or if the SJC decides to wait until they have a full complement of justices, we could see further delays. In my reply I also mentioned that, after peeling back the constitutional due process issue, the underlying cases are really just piss-ant misdemeanors. The reason that might be relevant is because the SJC may not see this as an issue that demands immediate attention. But I'm not in MA, so you locals would know better than I how the SJC might act.

[KashkaiBoy]

For what it's worth, most of the delays so far have been due to wrangling over court process. The various filings and rulings over whether to have public vs. Private probable cause hearings itself, which usually is just a pro forma part of the process, have taken weeks. It's not LE or the prosecutors who are dragging their feet. They seem to have had their cases ready for some time.

In terms of evidence, the charging documents for the three managers say that there was a long period of surveillance. So I'd expect photos of clients entering and exiting, possibly video from interior cameras, etc. Some clients were stopped outside and gave statements, which could be incriminatory for themselves or others. LE had warrants for phone records, so yeah, texts and so on. BTW, in criminal law, it's very common for convictions to be only on the basis of circumstantial evidence, so that in and of itself is not an issue for the prosecutors. It's really about the quality of the circumstantial evidence.

The prosecution generally never shows its cards until it has to. So, whether it's an indictment, or preliminary hearing, or probable cause hearing, they will show the bare minimum they feel is needed to move things to the trial phase.

At that point, discovery and pre-trial motions take place and a good defense attorney should be able to figure out if prosecutors have a strong or weak hand. Then they can advise their client as to whether they should seek a plea deal or fight the charges.

But the evidence against each defendant will be different, so it's hard to make any kind of blanket statement. That being said, we're now almost two months after the initial announcement about going after 28 clients. One would think that, before making so specific a statement, LE would have had all their ducks in a row with respect to those 28 cases. The more that time passes, and especially if it seems like that original number could be reduced, the more it makes you wonder about what's going on behind the scenes.

[MandarinOrange]

Met a guy at a dinner party at friends' house who turned out to be a sinologist (studies Chinese culture and traditions, generally speaking). Had an interesting conversation with him, and among other things he was talking about cultural differences between an averaged Chinese person and a generalized westerner. According to him, one of the biggest differences is the social acceptance of lying in Chinese culture while it's not the case in Western culture. Apparently the Chinese person doesn't see lying as a bad thing at all if it's done to gain something and especially to save face. So, if you start calling your Chinese gf a lying liar, she wouldn't even understand what you are talking about.

Completely agree.

I got to know one of the ladies and after a while she was more 'honest about her situation'. She admitted that she was not completely honest at the beginning, but I could see it was to save face.

[Andir]

Met a guy at a dinner party at friends' house who turned out to be a sinologist (studies Chinese culture and traditions, generally speaking). Had an interesting conversation with him, and among other things he was talking about cultural differences between an averaged Chinese person and a generalized westerner. According to him, one of the biggest differences is the social acceptance of lying in Chinese culture while it's not the case in Western culture. Apparently the Chinese person doesn't see lying as a bad thing at all if it's done to gain something and especially to save face. So, if you start calling your Chinese gf a lying liar, she wouldn't even understand what you are talking about.

[JmSuttr]

So they have names in a calendar book and perhaps text messages. What other evidence do they have? They don't have any witnesses or physical evidence. Doubtful they have video evidence after so much time elapsed. It seems the for cause hearing would divulge 100% of the circumstantial evidence. I wonder if the prosecution is rethinking some of this.

The prosecution generally never shows its cards until it has to. So, whether it's an indictment, or preliminary hearing, or probable cause hearing, they will show the bare minimum they feel is needed to move things to the trial phase.

At that point, discovery and pre-trial motions take place and a good defense attorney should be able to figure out if prosecutors have a strong or weak hand. Then they can advise their client as to whether they should seek a plea deal or fight the charges.

But the evidence against each defendant will be different, so it's hard to make any kind of blanket statement. That being said, we're now almost two months after the initial announcement about going after 28 clients. One would think that, before making so specific a statement, LE would have had all their ducks in a row with respect to those 28 cases. The more that time passes, and especially if it seems like that original number could be reduced, the more it makes you wonder about what's going on behind the scenes.

[Ezra007]

So they have names in a calendar book and perhaps text messages. What other evidence do they have? They don't have any witnesses or physical evidence. Doubtful they have video evidence after so much time elapsed. It seems the for cause hearing would divulge 100% of the circumstantial evidence. I wonder if the prosecution is rethinking some of this.

I responded to Hyperion in a separate post as to why I don't agree with his theory re lawyers and the missing 14 appeals. I do agree with your point that there's no incentive, at this point, for LE to drop any of the cases, which makes the current state of affairs even more strange. Also, your mention about the constantly changing numbers is one of the most interesting points to consider. We don't have enough info to know, but the shift from 28 to 18 to 14 is certainly evidence that something odd appears to be happening in the background.

If everything was going according to LE's plan, the 28 clients they announced as being referred for prosecution would likely have all received a summons. And all of them, or at least the vast majority of them, would have hired lawyers. Any lawyer worth his salt would have either filed their own appeal or would have joined with an appeal filed by one of the other lawyers. The logical end result would therefore have been reports of 28 (or close to that number) defendant appeals filed (separately or jointly).

The absence of 14 appeals is therefore quite a puzzle. I don't pretend to have any explanation but am just pointing out that it may be an indication of problems behind the scenes. Of course, it's also worth noting that all we're going on are media reports. But the local media attention has been so intense that any mistakes would likely be corrected promptly. It'll be interesting to see what kinds of reports come out in the coming days.

P.S. It occurs to me that it is possible that, after making the announcement about 28 clients, LE could have decided to go after 14 in one batch and delay the other 14 until later. But that's pure speculation on my part, and LE hasn't made any announcement along those lines. And that also doesn't explain the 18-to-14 number shift you mentioned. So, for the moment, it remains an unsolved puzzle.

[JmSuttr]

I lean this way as well. I can't imagine they dropped 14 cases as there's no reason for it at this juncture. Might as well see it through to the show cause hearing and go from there.

One thing that is strange though is the initial appeal to the SJC had 18 (I believe) alleged clients appeal. I wonder why that number dropped from 18 to 14 for this appeal.

I responded to Hyperion in a separate post as to why I don't agree with his theory re lawyers and the missing 14 appeals. I do agree with your point that there's no incentive, at this point, for LE to drop any of the cases, which makes the current state of affairs even more strange. Also, your mention about the constantly changing numbers is one of the most interesting points to consider. We don't have enough info to know, but the shift from 28 to 18 to 14 is certainly evidence that something odd appears to be happening in the background.

If everything was going according to LE's plan, the 28 clients they announced as being referred for prosecution would likely have all received a summons. And all of them, or at least the vast majority of them, would have hired lawyers. Any lawyer worth his salt would have either filed their own appeal or would have joined with an appeal filed by one of the other lawyers. The logical end result would therefore have been reports of 28 (or close to that number) defendant appeals filed (separately or jointly).

The absence of 14 appeals is therefore quite a puzzle. I don't pretend to have any explanation but am just pointing out that it may be an indication of problems behind the scenes. Of course, it's also worth noting that all we're going on are media reports. But the local media attention has been so intense that any mistakes would likely be corrected promptly. It'll be interesting to see what kinds of reports come out in the coming days.

P.S. It occurs to me that it is possible that, after making the announcement about 28 clients, LE could have decided to go after 14 in one batch and delay the other 14 until later. But that's pure speculation on my part, and LE hasn't made any announcement along those lines. And that also doesn't explain the 18-to-14 number shift you mentioned. So, for the moment, it remains an unsolved puzzle.

[JmSuttr]

I would rather think that the other 14 don't have an attorney (yet). Maybe they cannot afford one? Or maybe they're just waiting to see what happens. Whatever decision is taken, will apply to all 28 anyway, so maybe they don't see a point in paying attorneys at this time.

All of the alleged clients had enough discretionary income to (allegedly) spend on visits to the agencies. And it's doubtful that LE, at least with this initial tranche, would be targeting clients with just a few visits or anyone who doesn't meet the criteria they laid out when they made a big deal about how agency clients included prominent individuals.

All things considered, it's hard to imagine any defendant in this first group being someone who can't afford to hire a lawyer. And, considering the fact that their lives are at risk of being ruined, it's hard to imagine any defendant not hiring an attorney immediately after receiving a summons. Would you sit back and wait to see what happens? I certainly wouldn't. I'd not only hire a lawyer but I'd also be making a Plan B, Plan C, and a plan for as many scenarios as I could think up.

Maybe what you point out might possibly apply to one or two, but to fourteen? I think not. Also, the reason why every summoned defendant needs a lawyer now is because, no matter what the SJC decision is, the probable cause hearings will still take place. The only issue in dispute is whether they'll be public or private. So, IMO, any summoned individual who hasn't already hired a lawyer is a certifiable idiot.

[Comcast7777]

I would rather think that the other 14 don't have an attorney (yet). Maybe they cannot afford one? Or maybe they're just waiting to see what happens. Whatever decision is taken, will apply to all 28 anyway, so maybe they don't see a point in paying attorneys at this time.

I lean this way as well. I can't imagine they dropped 14 cases as there's no reason for it at this juncture. Might as well see it through to the show cause hearing and go from there.

One thing that is strange though is the initial appeal to the SJC had 18 (I believe) alleged clients appeal. I wonder why that number dropped from 18 to 14 for this appeal.

[Hyperion11]

The Federal case against the 3 primary defendants is a slam dunk, IMO. But the local cases against alleged clients seem to be turning into a can of worms. From the 28 enumerated in the initial press release, we're now apparently down to 14. At least 14 is the number of due process appeals that have reportedly been filed. What's become of the other 14 is anyone's guess.

I would rather think that the other 14 don't have an attorney (yet). Maybe they cannot afford one? Or maybe they're just waiting to see what happens. Whatever decision is taken, will apply to all 28 anyway, so maybe they don't see a point in paying attorneys at this time.

[JmSuttr]

I read both doj reports. Check online, they're viewable to the public. The main handler Han or Hana is a woman the other 2 are men. The providers were paid 50% of the fees and kept all tips. The providers were concerned about being caught not about being forced to prostitute. No one is being charged with trafficking. Media outlets are never going to report on most of the facts that don't portray the women as victims.

The Federal case against the 3 primary defendants is a slam dunk, IMO. But the local cases against alleged clients seem to be turning into a can of worms. From the 28 enumerated in the initial press release, we're now apparently down to 14. At least 14 is the number of due process appeals that have reportedly been filed. What's become of the other 14 is anyone's guess.

DOJ isn't technically responsible for the local prosecutions, but they'll still lose face if anything goes wrong. They need the media to help sell the "trafficking" narrative so they'll both work together to keep that going, no matter what. And the media smells blood because they know publicly revealing the identities of the defendants will be a major coup (for them) and they don't care how many lives are ruined.

The only hope for any of the defendants is that there's a favorable ruling from the SJC on the due process and privacy issues. As I've posted previously, there may be a route into the federal court system on Constitutional grounds. But that's too far down the path to see right now. I'm sure at least some of the defense attorneys will make the attempt if and when that time comes.

Consider this as one of the scenarios DOJ and LE might be worried about: The number of potentially prosecutable cases drops (for whatever reason) from 28 to 14. Then, whether via public or private court hearings, only a few are found to meet the probable cause standard. After the media finishes crucifying those poor bastards, their attention will turn to LE and will ask WTF happened to the "strong" cases. And, IIRC, when the initial busts happened the Feds were trumpeting the large number of clients each agency had. So, if they've raised expectations and don't deliver, or under-deliver, negative public opinion is inevitable.

No "trafficking" convictions + very few (no?) "buyers of sex" convictions = major DOJ heartburn. Lots still to unfold, of course, so stay tuned.

[Katokay]

I read both doj reports. Check online, they're viewable to the public. The main handler Han or Hana is a woman the other 2 are men. The providers were paid 50% of the fees and kept all tips. The providers were concerned about being caught not about being forced to prostitute. No one is being charged with trafficking. Media outlets are never going to report on most of the facts that don't portray the women as victims.