Stupid Shit in NoVa

[DoctorDoctor]

While tips are optional in our society, tips are also a principal part of waiter, waitress and provider income. It is up to each of us to decide the right tip. I will tip less for bad service, but never nothing. For me the right response to truly poor service is to not return.

Do you tip at Starbucks? Or other carryout type places?

I tip regardless of the service. I understand the 'me-me' mindset. Pay for what you get, I get it. At the same time I don't know what's really going with the other person, in this case provider. Is she having a bad day? Was the last customer a jerk? Is she worried about surviving? Maintaining family? My point is I don't know. What I do know is that there was a short connection between us, be it good, poor or so-so. Yes, I paid for a service but I also know that the provider only gets a cut or in the case of an independent, she has expenses to maintain her business. Tipping helps and also acknowledges the time spent together.

A little kindness goes a long way.

[OldBoomer]

So you stiff a waiter or waitress, if you never plan to return! It's not fine. C'mon man!

While tips are optional in our society, tips are also a principal part of waiter, waitress and provider income. It is up to each of us to decide the right tip. I will tip less for bad service, but never nothing. For me the right response to truly poor service is to not return.

[NyHornet]

I think what you did was fine if you don't plan to return. But if you plan to frequent there then perhaps maybe you could have left a Jackson in order to build goodwill. Just my two cents.

So you stiff a waiter or waitress, if you never plan to return! It's not fine. C'mon man!

[NyHornet]

I visited a local MP where several ladies (all over the age of 40+) are employed as Massage Technicians.

I had visited before, enjoyed all aspects of the massage, and tipped accordingly.

When I arrived, the manager (who I had previously met and is well over the age of 40+) took my money and took me to the room.

The manager returned (evidently the other ladies were busy), and provided the massage -- then left the room and did not return.

The massage to my back and neck was good. Nothing else was massaged.

I had contracted for a massage. I received a massage..

Do you tip your barber? If the massage is good, 15-20% is reasonable.

[MrSunnyHills]

That's odd. If it was an hour, I would expect the full body (even with no NOVA) would be done competently. For 1/2 hour, not sure how much can be fit in.

In any case, if I go to an AMP which I don't know (particularly when traveling and havn't done adequate research) and am not sure there is any extras, I'm usually still prepared to tip 15%, unless there was bad service. 20% for a very good massage. If the back and neck was it, and it was under time paid for, no tip might be warranted. I see why you might not want to leave a Jackson. Otherwise, I have asked in the past for change at the front. Tough call.

I visited a local MP where several ladies (all over the age of 40+) are employed as Massage Technicians.

I had visited before, enjoyed all aspects of the massage, and tipped accordingly.

When I arrived, the manager (who I had previously met and is well over the age of 40+) took my money and took me to the room.

The manager returned (evidently the other ladies were busy), and provided the massage -- then left the room and did not return.

The massage to my back and neck was good. Nothing else was massaged.

I had contracted for a massage. I received a massage.

I dressed. I had a few Jacksons in my pocket (but nothing else). I departed.

Opinions?

PA.

[MangoBalls78]

I visited a local MP where several ladies (all over the age of 40+) are employed as Massage Technicians.

I had visited before, enjoyed all aspects of the massage, and tipped accordingly.

When I arrived, the manager (who I had previously met and is well over the age of 40+) took my money and took me to the room.

The manager returned (evidently the other ladies were busy), and provided the massage -- then left the room and did not return.

The massage to my back and neck was good. Nothing else was massaged.

I had contracted for a massage. I received a massage.

I dressed. I had a few Jacksons in my pocket (but nothing else). I departed.

Opinions?

PA.

I think what you did was fine if you don't plan to return. But if you plan to frequent there then perhaps maybe you could have left a Jackson in order to build goodwill. Just my two cents.

[OldManInVa]

I tip even at legit spas. 20% is pretty customary. If you got a good legit massage, it is reasonable for you to tip the customary amount. If she denied your request for services that you had received there in the past and you considered to be part of the package then you should have complained and withholding a tip would be reasonable. Just my two cents since you asked.

Old Man.

I visited a local MP where several ladies (all over the age of 40+) are employed as Massage Technicians.

I had visited before, enjoyed all aspects of the massage, and tipped accordingly.

When I arrived, the manager (who I had previously met and is well over the age of 40+) took my money and took me to the room.

The manager returned (evidently the other ladies were busy), and provided the massage -- then left the room and did not return.

The massage to my back and neck was good. Nothing else was massaged.

I had contracted for a massage. I received a massage.

I dressed. I had a few Jacksons in my pocket (but nothing else). I departed.

Opinions?

PA.

[Tom McAn]

You're right that it's not illegal, in and of itself, for your info to be found on a server (or other device) belonging to an escort agency. If legal jeopardy is the only consideration then that's one level of risk analysis. Of course, if the agency gets caught up in any kind of "trafficking" (real or alleged) investigation, then things could get complicated.

But for many the non-LE risks might be just as significant. As the Ashley Madison incident demonstrated, info exposure can lead to adverse marital and job consequences, public embarrassment, loss of reputation, and even suicide. It doesn't really matter whether the info is hacked, leaked, or otherwise misused, once it's exposed the genie is out of the bottle and can't be put back in.

Using encrypted transmission methods is of course better than not. But, at the end of the day, there's an image of your DL, over which you have no control, in an escort agency's records. I'm sure you'll probably be fine but you've had to put your trust in people you don't really know. If they're responsible, they'll have permanently and thoroughly deleted that image once they verified you. Let's hope that's the case.

Obviously everyone's risk tolerance is different. For people with a lot to lose, it's a bit like running across a freeway because you want to get to the other side. If traffic is light, you probably don't have much to worry about. The only problem is that the consequences if something bad were to happen would be catastrophic.

Maybe I'm just more risk-averse than most but my tendency is to think of all the things that could go wrong and how badly that could mess up my life. So for me the answer is to use this forum to do good homework and find great providers who don't ask for PII.

Excellent points. As I read this I was reminded of two well-known politicians, one from each major party, who were found to be clients of escort agencies and allegedly saw providers in DC. Neither faced criminal charges, but their respective political careers went down in flames thanks to the embarrassment. There were also several well-known religious figures caught up in the Ashley Madison mess and each paid a significant professional price as I recall.

I suspect most of us aren't in those categories, but we could still suffer personal and family embarrassment, as well as possibly professional disaster, if Uncle LEO got hold of our PII in a raid on one of these agencies. That's one reason among many why I won't share my PII with a provider or agency.

[RegularJoe1985]

Two words - "Cooperating witness".

Well one place that people have placed a lot of trust is p411. I know of people who have provided their PII for this service. Don't know how that would play out now.

[Jacobs Patrick]

Glad you had a nice session with Giselle but I'm assuming, from the wording of your post, that you had to give them personal info to get verified.

My issue is that, even if the server is in Spain the agency booker or manager or someone still has to access that information in order to view it and approve you as a client. If that person is in the US, your info also resides on their laptop, desktop, tablet or phone. And that's exactly where LEO will find it If that agency gets taken down.

The problem is that once you hand over personal info you completely lose control of how it's used, how it's transmitted, where it's stored, etc. That keeps the risk level unacceptably high, IMHO. That's not to say there's no value in using foreign servers and domains. But the main benefit would seem to be making it more difficult for LEO to get server logs containing IP addresses and such that could then be used to track and identify a particular computer or access point. That's the strategy USASG uses, and it makes sense.

But handing over PII bypasses the need for IP info. If LEO has your DL or work info, that's all they need to link you to the agency. To my mind that completely changes the calculus and the odds, and not in a good way.

At the end of the day, everyone has to make their own risk analysis and decide for themselves. My uncrossable line is PII and keeping it under my control at all times. Foreign server storage sound good, in theory, but could be a false sense of security.

Two words - "Cooperating witness".

[JmSuttr]

Yes, it's a risk, but being screened is not illegal by itself. It only gives you access to their web site. That doesn't mean that I do a booking. That only means that you registered. As for my I'd, they were really only focussed on the photo and DoB.

All my communication from there on out happened encrypted via Proton / VPN. Is it a risk, yes. But for me it was a calculated risk.

You're right that it's not illegal, in and of itself, for your info to be found on a server (or other device) belonging to an escort agency. If legal jeopardy is the only consideration then that's one level of risk analysis. Of course, if the agency gets caught up in any kind of "trafficking" (real or alleged) investigation, then things could get complicated.

But for many the non-LE risks might be just as significant. As the Ashley Madison incident demonstrated, info exposure can lead to adverse marital and job consequences, public embarrassment, loss of reputation, and even suicide. It doesn't really matter whether the info is hacked, leaked, or otherwise misused, once it's exposed the genie is out of the bottle and can't be put back in.

Using encrypted transmission methods is of course better than not. But, at the end of the day, there's an image of your DL, over which you have no control, in an escort agency's records. I'm sure you'll probably be fine but you've had to put your trust in people you don't really know. If they're responsible, they'll have permanently and thoroughly deleted that image once they verified you. Let's hope that's the case.

Obviously everyone's risk tolerance is different. For people with a lot to lose, it's a bit like running across a freeway because you want to get to the other side. If traffic is light, you probably don't have much to worry about. The only problem is that the consequences if something bad were to happen would be catastrophic.

Maybe I'm just more risk-averse than most but my tendency is to think of all the things that could go wrong and how badly that could mess up my life. So for me the answer is to use this forum to do good homework and find great providers who don't ask for PII.

[HerbB]

Glad you had a nice session with Giselle but I'm assuming, from the wording of your post, that you had to give them personal info to get verified.

My issue is that, even if the server is in Spain the agency booker or manager or someone still has to access that information in order to view it and approve you as a client. If that person is in the US, your info also resides on their laptop, desktop, tablet or phone. And that's exactly where LEO will find it If that agency gets taken down.

The problem is that once you hand over personal info you completely lose control of how it's used, how it's transmitted, where it's stored, etc. That keeps the risk level unacceptably high, IMHO. That's not to say there's no value in using foreign servers and domains. But the main benefit would seem to be making it more difficult for LEO to get server logs containing IP addresses and such that could then be used to track and identify a particular computer or access point. That's the strategy USASG uses, and it makes sense.

But handing over PII bypasses the need for IP info. If LEO has your DL or work info, that's all they need to link you to the agency. To my mind that completely changes the calculus and the odds, and not in a good way.

At the end of the day, everyone has to make their own risk analysis and decide for themselves. My uncrossable line is PII and keeping it under my control at all times. Foreign server storage sound good, in theory, but could be a false sense of security.

Yes, it's a risk, but being screened is not illegal by itself. It only gives you access to their web site. That doesn't mean that I do a booking. That only means that you registered. As for my I'd, they were really only focussed on the photo and DoB.

All my communication from there on out happened encrypted via Proton / VPN. Is it a risk, yes. But for me it was a calculated risk.

[JmSuttr]

OK, I took the plunge and got myself screened at them. Their server is in Spain, so out of reach from uncle LEO. Glad I did.

Had a great session today with Giselle, a very hot looking Brazilian blonde with a fantastic attitude. True GFE and such a sweetheart. Booking was easy and very responsive.

Glad you had a nice session with Giselle but I'm assuming, from the wording of your post, that you had to give them personal info to get verified.

My issue is that, even if the server is in Spain the agency booker or manager or someone still has to access that information in order to view it and approve you as a client. If that person is in the US, your info also resides on their laptop, desktop, tablet or phone. And that's exactly where LEO will find it If that agency gets taken down.

The problem is that once you hand over personal info you completely lose control of how it's used, how it's transmitted, where it's stored, etc. That keeps the risk level unacceptably high, IMHO. That's not to say there's no value in using foreign servers and domains. But the main benefit would seem to be making it more difficult for LEO to get server logs containing IP addresses and such that could then be used to track and identify a particular computer or access point. That's the strategy USASG uses, and it makes sense.

But handing over PII bypasses the need for IP info. If LEO has your DL or work info, that's all they need to link you to the agency. To my mind that completely changes the calculus and the odds, and not in a good way.

At the end of the day, everyone has to make their own risk analysis and decide for themselves. My uncrossable line is PII and keeping it under my control at all times. Foreign server storage sound good, in theory, but could be a false sense of security.

[JmSuttr]

Bear with me folks. Just need to vent a bit. .

Let's talk about screening. As you all know, there are typically 3 types of screening processes to see an independent provider or a girl from an agency.

1. Through registration at services like P411, TER, etc. - Problem here is that most of these are closed by now.

2. Provide corporate and / or personal information. Uncle LEO will love this info!

3. At least 2 or more references from other independent providers in good standing.

Now let's talk about number 3 for a moment. How can I have references, if I need references to get these references in the first place?

And even if I have a reference, how would the new provider verify that unless I provided my personal information with both of them?

Let's not bring up the argument that she will remember you and can provide assurance that you are not LE. She won't.

If you saw her let's say 6 month ago, she wouldn't remember you unless you did something outrageous like wearing a pink hat while going down on her.

So the way I see this, this process is flawed and at least for me not working.

One alternative I could think of is, that when you arrive at the provider, before going down to business, you show your credentials like I'd, corporate I'd, your LinkedIn profile (from your phone), etc. And leave nothing behind.

That way she can be certain that you are not LE, and you that none of your personal information falls in the wrong hands.

What do you all think?

Except for agencies, there are as many screening procedures around as there are individual providers and, IMHO, they needn't be taken at face value. While many providers stick firmly to their screening rules, others are more flexible. There's no way to know for sure until you contact them and try. As with everything else concerning providers, YMMV applies.

As one example, when a provider has plenty of clients, she can afford to be picky and strict with screening. But, when business is slow, that can definitely change things. By how much depends on the provider, how slow things are, and her individual need for cash. Also, many providers like to hear a client's voice and just a phone call can sometimes make the difference.

If I'm interested in a provider who has, at least on paper, a strict screening process, the first thing I do is search for more info and intel on the web, this forum, and sites like E-Monkey and Listcrawler. I'm looking for at least two things: First, any reviews or monger posts indicating any kind of flexibility or variability in her process. Second, whether ads she's posted on different sites say different things about screening. Maybe her Eros or Private Delights ad talks about strict screening but her ad on Listcrawler doesn't.

When I've done enough homework and I think it's worth a shot, I'll call and tell her I saw her ad on whatever site had the least restrictive language regarding screening. Once we have a conversation going, my goal is to make her feel as safe and comfortable with me as possible. Sometimes she doesn't even bring up a screening process and we move right into scheduling a session. Other times she brings it up and I give her my handle for this forum and for TER. Or I might ask if she'd consider an alternative like a brief meeting at Starbucks, etc. It's all about the art of persuasion so there are no hard and fast rules. I'd guess I've had about a 40% to 50% success rate with this approach. Again, it all depends on how badly she needs $ and how well you can persuade her that you're a low-risk client. If nothing works and you hit an impasse, thank her politely and move on.

But, as other members have pointed out, there are plenty of good providers who don't have strict screening. And seeing some of those, at least the more responsible ones, should also give you a base of references to use in the future.

[HerbB]

So the question we have to ask is who are the idiots that give this level of information. Obviously many do or these fine ladies would not be asking for it and they would be out of business. Why would anyone tell where they work and expect it to be held in confidence.

So are there that many idiots out here that give out that information? That is scary as they are just waiting to be consumed in a major sting down the road or when the lady is caught and needs to bargain.

I don't know about everyone else, but I haven't met any lady that's worth what will happen with giving your professional and personal info.

Remember we can stop this BS by not playing the game.

HD29.

HD29,

True, but quite a few folks tend to think with their little head when it comes to this hobby. Typically the rule of thumb is, the more attractive the girl and the more $$$ she asks, the more likely will she ask for screening.

Nowadays, almost any girl who is asking more than $350/ hr is asking for screening.

So if your little head really wants to see a smoking hot chick, you only have the options I mentioned.

HerbB.