"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[TomDickNHarry]

Interesting. Blocks now seem to be permanent. Clicking the "Block" button pops up a dialog warning it can't be reversed and asking if you want to hide instead. There used to be a list of blocked members under the Settings menu, but that seems to have disappeared. Wonder why that changed?

So when you report a profile it automatically blocks the profile for you. Since you used to be able to undo your blocks, you could check and see if the site did anything about your complaint and deleted that profile, which they used to do at least sometimes. Now, they absolutely never delete profiles even for the fakes and scammers and online only's, no matter how many people report them, which is something many have been complaining to them about.

I suspect this change is so that once you report a profile and they block it for you, you can't check to see if they did anything about it. They obviously won't, but problem solved from their end because now you can't find out. Just another way in which the site is degrading and why it's been overrun with scammers, fake profiles and girls seeking "online only" (whatever the hell that is and whatever losers enjoy that).

[Zcochran00]

Interesting. Blocks now seem to be permanent. Clicking the "Block" button pops up a dialog warning it can't be reversed and asking if you want to hide instead. There used to be a list of blocked members under the Settings menu, but that seems to have disappeared. Wonder why that changed?

[JZLizard]

I was just chatting with a lady on SA. She wanted 500 per meet with no kissing on the mouth. I passed and said if I'd known about the no kissing on the mouth it would've saved some time. She said it was "super personal". You know what else is super personal?? $500 plus restrictions! Hell, I wasn't going to pay that much anyway.

No kissing is almost always sure sign of an escort or UTR anyway, so good for you for dodging an expensive hooker.

Not always though, ironically I've been with 2 escorts in my entire life and one of them tried to kiss me on the mouth!

Also I have been with girls that I thought were smoking hot, but never kissed them. I couldn't tell you why, it wasn't for lack of attraction, it was more about the personal chemistry between us and the fact that the connection was purely genital based I guess. Those were civvy hookups though --never happened with SBs though, I find they all like kissing. I usually initiate it with them because I think younger girls tend to get into sex more when its part of the program.

[Wheaton278]

It's like the perfect storm has come together. We have more sex and sexual adventures more readily available then ever before, coupled with a "trend, an in thing, a turning a regret into an allegation, you are owed and deserving as a young woman, because you laid down and played". Again, any guy who is assaulting women, can eat shit. But we see every day the more graying of these topics and we men, really have to be careful. My questions bringing up this topic, is what can we do to protect ourselves? And also, how to handle attempts to be strong armed.

I can honestly say I've treated every sugar baby I've been with very nicely, fairly and tried to be more then just sex with them all. I actually enjoyed all aspects of what sugar dating can be. But I've learned all to well, that most of these girls are half nuts, if not fully crazy and many of literally capable of anything. And I do not say that lightly. Some of these girls, LITERALLY think they are entitled to extort, blackmail, or threaten you because they gave it up to you. And often times, being the ultra nice guy, gets you into more trouble. They see you as soft and an easy mark.

I agree with the heavy screening upfront, but you cannot ever really tell for sure. So many girls, I've seen started out, sweet, a bit shy, even loving in nature and then when it ends, they get crazy.

Clear your inbox when you get a moment please. Thanks!

[Geechie Dan]

I was just chatting with a lady on SA. She wanted 500 per meet with no kissing on the mouth. I passed and said if I'd known about the no kissing on the mouth it would've saved some time. She said it was "super personal". You know what else is super personal?? $500 plus restrictions! Hell, I wasn't going to pay that much anyway.

[JZLizard]

Wanted to get opinion from the friends on this forum. I have been chatting with this 22 yrs old single mother from SA last couple of days. She seems legit, but I don't have enough information to do a thorough check like FB. She is willing to meet me, but not overly eager. Shared the phone number only after I requested. We have been exchanging photos and most of what she tells me makes sense. Last night I checked the SA site and noted her profile was gone. I checked with my dummy account and confirmed that she didn't block me, her profile was gone. The profile was back up this morning. I asked her about it, she said it was strange and she didn't know why it happened. I was chatting with her on the phone. Then again I checked SA now, again her profile is gone. Should I be concerned about this? She seems to be legit based on my conversations.

I don't do exhaustive checks on girls -- if I can find info on them then great, if not I don't sweat it.

IMHO it is not suspicious that her profile is gone, only that she denies knowledge of where it went. In those cases I would just do something like "I seem to have lost your profile, do you mind to send me a msg on SA so we can reconnect there". However it's better to do this before asking where it went, because once she has denied knowledge it puts her between a rock and hard place, and at that point she may decide to just stop responding to you altogether in which it's opportunity for pussy foregone. If you launch a preemptive tactic like the above, it gives her a chance to either explain why she took it down or send you a msg under her new account if she has one. At this point she would need to save face.

[Kwagmire]

Even though my profile is deactivated for several days, when I get back on and look at the 'Viewed my profile' page, there are girls listed there. If my profile was really inactivated, how the heck were they viewing it? I haven't posed this question to SA, yet.

Are the girls in your "viewed my profile" list girls you'd looked at previously? I've had the same thing happen while my profile is hidden / deactivated, but I thought it was not because I was still turning up in the browses or searches, but because I popped up on THEIR "viewed my profile" list even though though my profile was hidden / deactivated.

[FarFarAway]

Wanted to get opinion from the friends on this forum. I have been chatting with this 22 yrs old single mother from SA last couple of days. She seems legit, but I don't have enough information to do a thorough check like FB. She is willing to meet me, but not overly eager. Shared the phone number only after I requested. We have been exchanging photos and most of what she tells me makes sense. Last night I checked the SA site and noted her profile was gone. I checked with my dummy account and confirmed that she didn't block me, her profile was gone. The profile was back up this morning. I asked her about it, she said it was strange and she didn't know why it happened. I was chatting with her on the phone. Then again I checked SA now, again her profile is gone. Should I be concerned about this? She seems to be legit based on my conversations.

Stay Safe.

Dr. S.

I personally have done just this, and have gotten quizzed by ladies on it. I deactivate my profile when I am not paid and can't message, but still get on from time to time to look at profiles and mark girls I would like to come back to.

This actually raises a question for me that has been bugging me. Even though my profile is deactivated for several days, when I get back on and look at the 'Viewed my profile' page, there are girls listed there. If my profile was really inactivated, how the heck were they viewing it? I haven't posed this question to SA, yet.

[DrSummer]

Wanted to get opinion from the friends on this forum. I have been chatting with this 22 yrs old single mother from SA last couple of days. She seems legit, but I don't have enough information to do a thorough check like FB. She is willing to meet me, but not overly eager. Shared the phone number only after I requested. We have been exchanging photos and most of what she tells me makes sense. Last night I checked the SA site and noted her profile was gone. I checked with my dummy account and confirmed that she didn't block me, her profile was gone. The profile was back up this morning. I asked her about it, she said it was strange and she didn't know why it happened. I was chatting with her on the phone. Then again I checked SA now, again her profile is gone. Should I be concerned about this? She seems to be legit based on my conversations.

Stay Safe.

Dr. S.

[FarFarAway]

Agree and do not believe in this concept, in arrangements or otherwise. Of the main human emotions, gratitude has the least motivational power. Now if you're developing a deep connection and treating it like dating and find value in social interactions, then of course kindnesses and spoiling are going to improve those social dates. But it's terrible advice for 99.9% of the people seeking more standard arrangements (FC visits each date) to say that past financial support for platonic meetings will pay off in the future in the FC. They consider that debt already paid by their mere presence, you're actually conditioning them to think that each time you pay them for a social date. The only way it will ever motivate the typical SB to go to the FC is fear of the gravy train being shut off.

FFA knows all this and so it's not directed at him but less experienced SD's than him should be disabused of this notion. This is especially important given the recent proliferation of professional Meet and Greeters who expertly string you along for paid dinners with zero intention of ever FC'ing, and other types of scams. This forum is littered with stories of girls ghosting after advances, loans, prepays, major gifts, etc.

Totally agree w / you Tom. Thanks for everyone's comments. There was a germ of truth for me in all of them. Traveling has kept me from connecting w / the lady in question again. It is likely she is out of my league, financially, but that doesn't mean I have forgotten what our personal interaction was like.

[FarFarAway]

Let's all have a serious open discussion about protecting ourselves. Lets be real, with the digital footprints these days, you can be found. Unless your James Bond, any computer savvy or semi creative minded girl can track you down. And especially if you've been at this game for a while, you're out there.

I disagree with this assessment. A significant purpose of this thread has been to train the next generation of SDs how to keep their operational security. I do not believe any of my SBs has any information about me that I haven't given them. I have used some services to find out their identities from their license plates, but they could not have done the same to me b / c I *never* have my real plate on my car when I see a SB. Please tell me where you think I fell down on this job. You can look at my posts to see the precautions I have applied.

[TomDickNHarry]

I would say it's highly unlikely that she's had even a twinkle of a thought about "FC Debt". Women don't think that way -- I think they generally feel their mere existence and presence carries enough value to be worth four figures / month.

Agree and do not believe in this concept, in arrangements or otherwise. Of the main human emotions, gratitude has the least motivational power. Now if you're developing a deep connection and treating it like dating and find value in social interactions, then of course kindnesses and spoiling are going to improve those social dates. But it's terrible advice for 99.9% of the people seeking more standard arrangements (FC visits each date) to say that past financial support for platonic meetings will pay off in the future in the FC. They consider that debt already paid by their mere presence, you're actually conditioning them to think that each time you pay them for a social date. The only way it will ever motivate the typical SB to go to the FC is fear of the gravy train being shut off.

FFA knows all this and so it's not directed at him but less experienced SD's than him should be disabused of this notion. This is especially important given the recent proliferation of professional Meet and Greeters who expertly string you along for paid dinners with zero intention of ever FC'ing, and other types of scams. This forum is littered with stories of girls ghosting after advances, loans, prepays, major gifts, etc.

[JZLizard]

It's like the perfect storm has come together. We have more sex and sexual adventures more readily available then ever before, coupled with a "trend, an in thing, a turning a regret into an allegation, you are owed and deserving as a young woman, because you laid down and played". Again, any guy who is assaulting women, can eat shit. But we see every day the more graying of these topics and we men, really have to be careful. My questions bringing up this topic, is what can we do to protect ourselves? And also, how to handle attempts to be strong armed.

I can honestly say I've treated every sugar baby I've been with very nicely, fairly and tried to be more then just sex with them all. I actually enjoyed all aspects of what sugar dating can be. But I've learned all to well, that most of these girls are half nuts, if not fully crazy and many of literally capable of anything. And I do not say that lightly. Some of these girls, LITERALLY think they are entitled to extort, blackmail, or threaten you because they gave it up to you. And often times, being the ultra nice guy, gets you into more trouble. They see you as soft and an easy mark.

I agree with the heavy screening upfront, but you cannot ever really tell for sure. So many girls, I've seen started out, sweet, a bit shy, even loving in nature and then when it ends, they get crazy.

Probably because it basically comes down to the two motivations of sugar babies: they are either in it for money and support, or they have genuine daddy issues and are seeking something emotional out of it to help patch up their lives, or some combination of the two. This means that sugar baby sites are not exactly fertile ground for meeting highly stable women.

There are some SBs, however, that are not basket cases. An asian girl I civvy dated (no sugar involved) was holding down a full time job, raising her kid alone, and working on her bachelors degree in computer science when we met. Never asked me for anything and I never gave her anything because she had "something real" potential and I didn't want to try it without entering money into the equation. She got a better paying job after her graduation, bought a house, etc. A few years later after we lost contact I run across her profile on a sugar daddy site (wasn't SA, I forget which one). She was a bit silly at times but not at all nuts. I'm pretty sure her idea of a sugar daddy was pretty much just an older, well accomplished mature guy who can hold a job. I think girls like her are the exception and not the rule, and most SBs are indeed a bit broken, but there are a lot of broken women to be met in mainstream civvy dating as well. It's almost like there is a physiological link between women who are really hot looking, and irrational behavior. Also it doesn't help that most true SBs are too young to have their shit together, maybe some of them balance out as they mature.

I guess I've been lucky as far as all the blackmail / extortion goes. A huge factor in that success has probably been not hanging around one for too long. I find it very easy to mitigate the clingy, stalker types by simply not being around them long enough for them to feel they have a deep investment in the situation.

For a long time, I was confused as to why my experiences with these girls was so different than what a lot of guys report on this forum. But then I see things like the article recently about the guy who pulled the Paypal scam, or I look at those SD blacklists and see some of the shit these girls are putting up with, and it confirms that some of the dudes are bat shit crazy as well, we just don't realize it because we don't interact with them.

With the exception of a couple of girls that drank too much and caused minor drama during the date, all of my encounters have ended well. I've had a few upset when I flat out told them I didn't want to see them anymore, but even that's rare because when I break it off, I typically make sure it can't be taken personally. Sometimes I just tell them I met "the one" and want to focus on that relationship which puts a positive spin on "please don't text me any more". Or I just come up with the usual business / family excuses, and keep repeating it until their texts taper off. Even then, I get random texts from most of them asking how I am, did I get married yet, etc.

[DirtyDeeds38]

You bring up some good defensive strategies, none of which eliminates risk, but mitigates it to a large degree. Which is fundamentally what it boils down to: there's risk, no way around it. Do everything you can to minimize it up front, and have thought through some strategies in the event that a particular SB blows up in your face.

If you're facing an SB who's going the blackmail route, that's been pretty well-documented here. Hit back hard with the fact that your consensual activities may carry a social stigma but they are not illegal. Unlike blackmail, which is quite illegal.

If you're facing a false accusation of assault, then you are indeed in a tough spot depending on how much the SB is willing to double-down. The only defense here is to not find yourself in that position in the first place. Which involves due diligence, the ability to read people, and an extra-sensitive BS meter. None of which are foolproof, which comes back to the fact that the risks are never zero.

A side-effect of my own approach to the bowl has its own natural defenses. Many people have pointed out that this is a numbers game. Which is true when you're trying to winnow down the POTS that can be turned into SB's. But there's an inverse numbers game to be played, which is to be patient, have a very high standard in the quality of the SB, and be seeking long-term arrangements rather than a revolving door of a new SB every few weeks. The more SB's you meet, the higher the chances you'll end up in the FC with a lot of different girls. But the more girls you land there, the higher the chance you hit a bat-shit crazy one that slipped under your radar.

My serial-monogamy, longer-term relationship approach does not fit what a lot of SD's are looking (or able) to do. But I'm now in a life situation where that's feasible and is something I prefer. I'd like to believe that it also contains some of the risks involved.

It's like the perfect storm has come together. We have more sex and sexual adventures more readily available then ever before, coupled with a "trend, an in thing, a turning a regret into an allegation, you are owed and deserving as a young woman, because you laid down and played". Again, any guy who is assaulting women, can eat shit. But we see every day the more graying of these topics and we men, really have to be careful. My questions bringing up this topic, is what can we do to protect ourselves? And also, how to handle attempts to be strong armed.

I can honestly say I've treated every sugar baby I've been with very nicely, fairly and tried to be more then just sex with them all. I actually enjoyed all aspects of what sugar dating can be. But I've learned all to well, that most of these girls are half nuts, if not fully crazy and many of literally capable of anything. And I do not say that lightly. Some of these girls, LITERALLY think they are entitled to extort, blackmail, or threaten you because they gave it up to you. And often times, being the ultra nice guy, gets you into more trouble. They see you as soft and an easy mark.

I agree with the heavy screening upfront, but you cannot ever really tell for sure. So many girls, I've seen started out, sweet, a bit shy, even loving in nature and then when it ends, they get crazy.

[Kwagmire]

From the OP description, unclear that she would see her behavior as building up FC debt, so it's probably walk.

I would say it's highly unlikely that she's had even a twinkle of a thought about "FC Debt". Women don't think that way -- I think they generally feel their mere existence and presence carries enough value to be worth four figures / month.

In my mind, OP should get clear in his mind what he wants, and artfully escalate toward that. This means arrange dates with logistics to the FC in mind, make suggestions and ease her in the direction of ending dates (or sometimes making the entire date) at the FC. Watch her behavior -- what she does here will be telling. The medium is the message, and if the message isn't what OP is looking for (even though she might be a delightful person), he needs to adjust the sugar -- that is, if she has dates where she "doesn't feel like having sex" he can certainly have dates where he "doesn't feel like giving cash", or simply realize that they're both not on the same page and let the relationship fade away.