"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[DirtyDeeds38]

I have actually been holding back on writing about my latest findings in the sugar world, partially because I think some of them are hard to describe without either alienating some of the audience, newcomers, or just giving the impression that I'm full of shit.

On my latest traveling-sugar binge, I did things a bit differently than I have in the past. I noticed in a LOT of profiles in various cities, many girls in the pool of SBs that I would go after are increasingly posting their interest in an arrangement that turns into a relationship, so I had an idea. What would happen if I invested a bit of time REALLY talking to each one, pouring on the game and charm, then telling them that my interest in them is way beyond the shallow confines of sugar? In line with the number you quoted above, somewhere between 6-7 out of 10 of these girls agreed to no-allowance dating (assuming we like each other at the meet)! We hear some folks say that free pussy is rare in the sugar world, I did not find this to be the case at all. Is it rare for the married guy who only wants a couple of hours in a hotel with her? Sure...it would be nearly impossible to get her to agree to do this without allowance. But what if I truly approach it the same as civy dating? What if, when I visit the girl I spend somewhere between 2-5 days with her and treat it as if I'm courting her? When I'm traveling, this is not that difficult for me to do, because when I communicate with the SO it's usually in text anyway, no need to disrupt my dating activities to answer her call and tell her how much I miss her.

Well long story short, I got a lot of "free" (or in reality very close to it) pussy. I say close to it, because in all cases I did gift something -- not because it's required but because it is important to me to establish that emotional separation, and make sure that they see me more a provider of material support than emotional support. However, the average gift came out to under $200 per overnighter date -- probably $150 on average. Not just overnighter but random afternoon fucks throughout the day in many cases. Now I did spend quite a bit on entertainment, but a lot of that was my own indulgence and certainly something I wanted to do. This is why I don't feel like dinner or dating expenses count when tallying up the total cost -- because she is not merely extracting money from me for her own gain, she is simply enjoying my company doing the same things I do (eat good food and drink etc), and therefore it's just a normal dating expense, in my mind at least. It's amazing how many of these girls just appreciate a good time and an escape from their otherwise dull lives!

Now the bad (and this is what you alluded to as well). It is pretty much impossible to do the above without expecting some clingers! All of the ones that I went overnight with did become somewhat clingy. I had one that was particularly memorable -- I stayed an entire workweek with her, and I think we fucked 15-16 times during that period, she was probably one of the more prolific nymphos I've ever met. She very quickly dismissed the idea of receiving allowance, and told me I was more of a "normal dating find" for her than what she expected in an SD, and yes when someone half your age says that, and is fucking your brains out, it does stroke your ego a bit and it's kind of hard to just pack up the suitcases and say goodbye. By day three she claims she loved me and I pretended like she never said it. She was already making all these delusional future plans for us, I mostly just bit my lip and tried to enjoy the eye candy and sex and just let on like I'm not really thinking too far in the future yet. And yes, the more resistent you are to her advances, the more she can sense it and the more of a turn on and challenge it is for her, so she keeps trying. A few times she exhibited nutty behaviors I would describe as bipolar symptoms, getting instantly furious at me for small things, random triggered, then letting her anger dissipate in a matter of seconds and returning to normal. I'm also aware that she was taking meds for some of her issues, meds that specifically warn against mixing with alcohol, yet she was doing it anyway. After I left, it took a few days to fully get rid of her, but I should be in the clear on that one as long as no paternity bullshit arises (I never use condoms). I really think 2-3 days with a girl is the maximum I want to go in the future after my recent experience. She was sad about the break up for a few days, but seems okay now and I'm sure she has probably already invoked her magical (bipolar) powers on another SD out there by now.

Bottom line is, there is something to be said for making sure that allowance or a financial arrangement is standing between you and any emotional expectation of the girl. They are human, and if they are truly attracted to their SD (which most true SBs probably are), they are quite prone to becoming attached. I think I made it worse this time by deemphasizing the financial aspect of arrangement and encouraging them to look past money even before the first M&G.

On the flip side, if I had just stuck to 18-20 year olds, I probably would not have had this problem. Its mostly the 24+ year olds that have started really thinking about their future, decided that they want a stable provider first and foremost, and if you are unmarried and have no kids (or they think you are), then you are a prime target for them. It then becomes a game of trying to have as much fun as possible without trampling on anyone's feelings or worsening the struggles that they already have. I always aim to leave them in better shape than I met them, whatever that means. I'm not sure I always succeed, but I do try.

I would say about half my babies ended up not really wanting an allowance or much of an allowance and usually fairly quickly into things. For the record, I am near 50 years of age, but like you, have been a fitness guru all my life and could likely pass for 36-38 in most all cases. I was into bodybuilding for years and have a psychic most 20-somethings might envy. Most girls are shocked when my clothes come off and will say things like, and get visibly excited "WTF, I get to fuck a real man, your so sexy, you're older, but like one of those super hot older guys I've fantasized about, you're biggest and strongest guy over been with (not my dick, my body, although that ain't small either. Haha) just random comments every time. It pays to keep yourself up in this game. My real downside is alcohol. I like to drink with these girls and lower both mine and their inhibitions. Better sex, more open, more fun anything goes once they and I are buzzed and for the past few years, I've been drinking a bit excessively because of this. But you know what? There are worse things in life. I never do drugs and I figure this is my one vise.

As for the crazies, I'm working with one who has her PhD. Smart as fuck, but also borderline personality disorder, sees a shrink all week and is legit insane. I have tried to help this girl, but she is not fixable, just a total lost cause, but she is so so so fun in the sack when her insanity does come out with sex. She is open for everything and loves being submissive. Again, I would say most of these girls are at the very lest unstable or they wouldn't be there. That said, it is true, the more crazy, the better the sex and nothing has rang more true in the bowl.

I have made many mistakes in the bowl and cost myself some serious grief over the years, but I would not trade my overall experiences for anything.

[JZLizard]

Understanding this and some other principles of human psychology at our age should be able to coerce these young ladies. It's not rocket science. Learn to read people.

Yes, as Neil Strauss used to say, "game" is really just a specialization of social skills that happens to place the focus on relationships with women. For me it's not about manipulation or coercion -- getting women to do what I want them to do has never been challenging for me. I just like doing things with a clear conscience. Even though I'm effectively sport fucking, with no intention of long-standing relationships with any of these women, I'm a strong believer that there is a way to play the game without anyone getting hurt, and ideally in a way that actually leaves her life in better shape than I found it. I think that understanding their background and what makes them tick helps me to help them.

Occasionally I encounter an arrogant SB that think they have life all figured out and don't want advice (in which case I don't bother), but I've found the vast majority do want a mentor, someone to look up to, someone to help them navigate a complicated world during their early stages of life. Like I said, ADS (Absent Daddy Syndrome) is the primary culprit here. The ones who never had a strong male figure that cared about whether they succeed or went sideways, or at least never earned their respect, are the ones who are most hungry for mentorship. So, if I learn that her reasons for seeking a daddy are different from this (and maybe 20% or so of the time they are), I usually adjust all of my interactions with her accordingly.

[Bill Cullen]

Thanks for the heads up but anyone falling for a scam this lame shouldn't be on the internet at all. "Starting the arrest process"? Right cause LE always calls up people they're about to arrest. The whole thing reads like one red flag after another.

Henrico called me to tell me they were issuing an arrest warrant. Told me I had till lunch time the next day to turn myself in or they'll send the Sheriff to my house to get me. Rare perhaps, but it does happen.

[FruitNinja]

I've written about this in the past, but I've found their relationship with their father has almost everything to do with what makes them want to date older men, and like you I try to find out family history early on because it helps me understand them, and that's good for both of us. They usually don't mind spilling the beans about this, and most of them seem pretty in touch with what made them who they are.

The most common scenario I encounter is "absent daddy syndrome" -- dad wasn't a part of their lives for whatever reason, or maybe he was a part of their lives but did not fully participate the way a father should. I'd say that's maybe 70-80%.

Second most common scenario is "tough act to follow daddy syndrome". The father spoiled his princess to such a degree that she will settle for no less than an older man who spoils, protects and provides for her as a partner.

Third scenario, and this is getting much rarer, like maybe 2-5% of the girls, is "super hard working underachieving Dad". This is not the same as family neglect through workaholism, that's still absent daddy syndrome. This is the dad that has a great work ethic and family ethic, but never really got ahead in life. Provides for his family, but never quite achieved any level of financial "comfort" for his family (had trouble keeping up with the Joneses).

Understanding this and some other principles of human psychology at our age should be able to coerce these young ladies. It's not rocket science. Learn to read people.

[FruitNinja]

Just to let you all know, some scammers have recently tried to target me with the underage girl scam. Don't fall for it!

Remember:

- Use either a burner phone, GV, or both for SA communications. Scammers will cross reference your number with social media apps to find out all about you.

- Don't use your real name for SA if you can avoid it.

- Even if the age of consent in your state is 16 or 17, it's still illegal to send / receive nude pics from minors and you will be prosecuted if the complaint is legitimate.

- If someone is trying to scam you for money, don't engage them and they'll eventually go away.

- No LE will ever encourage you to 'settle' a crime for money.

- 18 should be young enough for anyone on this board. Going younger will permanently alter your entire life as you know it.

I've seen this scam on CL. I always ask for age. If they tell me 18 I continue the conversation as there is no way for me to know. If I am suspicious on a meet I ask for ID. I'm too old and wise to fall for thi sshit. But it's out there. I'm sure some guys fall for it otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

[CandyMan555]

Just to let you all know, some scammers have recently tried to target me with the underage girl scam. Don't fall for it!

Here's how it worked: An over 18 account is set up on SA which they then use to message you and move it on to text. While texting they try to get a pic from you and your name. The girl eventually sends private pics unsolicited, at which point I asked her to confirm her age. She says she's almost 17 but really into older guys yada yada. I say not interested, report her account and block her number. The next day I get a text from her 'dad' from another number saying he's going to get me arrested for child porn and to call him immediately. I'm aware of the scam and I ignore him. Later in the day I get a voicemail from a 'sheriff' in another state saying they're starting the arrest process and I should call him back immediately (to a number not matching the caller I'd) to tell my side of the story and to settle this. I googled the number on the caller I'd which was spoofed from an actual LE office in another state to make it look official, so I call back at the official number (not at the alternate number left in the VM) I ask to speak to the sheriff by name and it's a different guy that has no idea what I'm talking about. He tells me it's a very common scam on internet dating sites and such. The 'father' then texts me later on in the day saying his daughter got suspended from school and I'll be arrested if I don't speak with him, at which point I tell him I'm aware it's a scam and that LE is very interested in meeting with him and his 'daughter'. Never heard back after that but it occurred to me that some of you might be also targets of this scam and might not know what to do.

Remember:

- Use either a burner phone, GV, or both for SA communications. Scammers will cross reference your number with social media apps to find out all about you.

- Don't use your real name for SA if you can avoid it.

- Even if the age of consent in your state is 16 or 17, it's still illegal to send / receive nude pics from minors and you will be prosecuted if the complaint is legitimate.

- If someone is trying to scam you for money, don't engage them and they'll eventually go away.

- No LE will ever encourage you to 'settle' a crime for money.

- 18 should be young enough for anyone on this board. Going younger will permanently alter your entire life as you know it.

Recommendations for burner phone would be appreciated Thanks CM.

[EvilTmp]

Thanks for the heads up but anyone falling for a scam this lame shouldn't be on the internet at all. "Starting the arrest process"? Right cause LE always calls up people they're about to arrest. The whole thing reads like one red flag after another.

Just to let you all know, some scammers have recently tried to target me with the underage girl scam. Don't fall for it!

- 18 should be young enough for anyone on this board. Going younger will permanently alter your entire life as you know it.

[YayaGogo]

Just to let you all know, some scammers have recently tried to target me with the underage girl scam. Don't fall for it!

Here's how it worked: An over 18 account is set up on SA which they then use to message you and move it on to text. While texting they try to get a pic from you and your name. The girl eventually sends private pics unsolicited, at which point I asked her to confirm her age. She says she's almost 17 but really into older guys yada yada. I say not interested, report her account and block her number. The next day I get a text from her 'dad' from another number saying he's going to get me arrested for child porn and to call him immediately. I'm aware of the scam and I ignore him. Later in the day I get a voicemail from a 'sheriff' in another state saying they're starting the arrest process and I should call him back immediately (to a number not matching the caller I'd) to tell my side of the story and to settle this. I googled the number on the caller I'd which was spoofed from an actual LE office in another state to make it look official, so I call back at the official number (not at the alternate number left in the VM) I ask to speak to the sheriff by name and it's a different guy that has no idea what I'm talking about. He tells me it's a very common scam on internet dating sites and such. The 'father' then texts me later on in the day saying his daughter got suspended from school and I'll be arrested if I don't speak with him, at which point I tell him I'm aware it's a scam and that LE is very interested in meeting with him and his 'daughter'. Never heard back after that but it occurred to me that some of you might be also targets of this scam and might not know what to do.

Remember:

- Use either a burner phone, GV, or both for SA communications. Scammers will cross reference your number with social media apps to find out all about you.

- Don't use your real name for SA if you can avoid it.

- Even if the age of consent in your state is 16 or 17, it's still illegal to send / receive nude pics from minors and you will be prosecuted if the complaint is legitimate.

- If someone is trying to scam you for money, don't engage them and they'll eventually go away.

- No LE will ever encourage you to 'settle' a crime for money.

- 18 should be young enough for anyone on this board. Going younger will permanently alter your entire life as you know it.

[JZLizard]

The other thing I've noticed is they all like to be told what to do. Both in bed and out. But to your point you have to be able to go with the flow. Peaks and valleys. The other thing all these girls are looking for is a strong man. They will eat a weak one. I play it to the point. None of this lovey shit. Be the man they are looking for. Another observation over the years of CL and now SA all of them have a weak father figure or no father. So the first thing I get into on meeting is family history. If the mother wore the pants go for it. If the father did walk away.

I've written about this in the past, but I've found their relationship with their father has almost everything to do with what makes them want to date older men, and like you I try to find out family history early on because it helps me understand them, and that's good for both of us. They usually don't mind spilling the beans about this, and most of them seem pretty in touch with what made them who they are.

The most common scenario I encounter is "absent daddy syndrome" -- dad wasn't a part of their lives for whatever reason, or maybe he was a part of their lives but did not fully participate the way a father should. I'd say that's maybe 70-80%.

Second most common scenario is "tough act to follow daddy syndrome". The father spoiled his princess to such a degree that she will settle for no less than an older man who spoils, protects and provides for her as a partner.

Third scenario, and this is getting much rarer, like maybe 2-5% of the girls, is "super hard working underachieving Dad". This is not the same as family neglect through workaholism, that's still absent daddy syndrome. This is the dad that has a great work ethic and family ethic, but never really got ahead in life. Provides for his family, but never quite achieved any level of financial "comfort" for his family (had trouble keeping up with the Joneses). In these cases I think the girl is just looking for something better -- maybe it pains her to see her dad work so diligently for so little so she wants to be sure she doesn't have to deal with that again with her husband? Just wants a life upgrade.

A very rare scenario that I have run into only a couple of times, the girl has a good Dad but there is a 20-30 year age difference between Dad and Mom. Thus, maybe the SB is just duplicating what she's observed and hoping to repeat the success of old / young marriages?

[JZLizard]

Not to get all nit-picky but it's not likely she was bipolar if she cycled through emotions that quickly. What I've found is there is a lot of personality disorders in SBs and I'll bet she was either borderline personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder. Look it up and see if it matches. All SDs should know what that looks like and be prepared for the roller coaster that comes with it. (I'm not saying to stay away completely, just know what you're playing with).

I know it's hard to believe for some guys but there are plenty of cute 19-20 year old who easily forget the sugar after once or twice and are just happy with the attention and time spent together. I cringe at the guys who need to spend 500 and even 700 every visit (good god, how long does it take for you to figure out she doesn't like you?). The bowl truly is like a box of chocolates.

I looked up the definitions of borderline and histronic disorder, and some of the traits apply while others don't, similar to the definition of bipolar. I should probably not even attempt a real diagnosis here, all I know is she went from happy to pissed in nothing flat, with literally zero warning -- like holding a poker face during the jekyl / hyde transformation, then unleashing all of a sudden. Mostly a happy person until something triggered it, and then she was all tears.

So, I'm not sure what it was, but it was enough to prompt me to handle with extreme care. Even after I was physically separated from her, I continued to text as if I had every intention of seeing her again, and I waited until she got uncharacteristically pissy with me and used that as a segue into the reasons we should not bother seeing each other any more.

There was nothing that would have indicated a problem before the meet, or even really until the second or third day. To be honest, if I didn't have an SO, I would have granted this girls wish of her being my girlfriend if it weren't for the mood swings, because she had a lot going for her in terms of looks, personality (when she's not livid about something) and the over the top appetite for sex.

[JZLizard]

I'm guessing you're in your 30's or 40's prime age for this sort of thing. I just advise anyone taking this approach to protect your identity which is incredibly difficult these days.

I'm older than that but can pass for early 30's. Lifetime commitment to exercise mostly, I think.

[FruitNinja]

Not to get all nit-picky but it's not likely she was bipolar if she cycled through emotions that quickly. What I've found is there is a lot of personality disorders in SBs and I'll bet she was either borderline personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder. Look it up and see if it matches. All SDs should know what that looks like and be prepared for the roller coaster that comes with it. (I'm not saying to stay away completely, just know what you're playing with).

I know it's hard to believe for some guys but there are plenty of cute 19-20 year old who easily forget the sugar after once or twice and are just happy with the attention and time spent together. I cringe at the guys who need to spend 500 and even 700 every visit (good god, how long does it take for you to figure out she doesn't like you?). The bowl truly is like a box of chocolates.

Chiming in from ORD. This has been exactly my experience. I've got one that's borderline personality disorder. I had her once and now she want's to get to know me. Then there's the 24 year old, when I asked her how much she wanted she said she was working at a real job and she didn't need a lot. Taking her to an airbnb tonight because I've had my niece living with me for a few months and I have a regular 30 year old that is a terror in bed. Sucks dick like a porn star and will do it for an hour and do it anywhere I want her to do it. Parked on a major street in the city and she's blowing me in the back seat while people are walking by. Thank g*d for tinted windows. The 30 year old has been to my house and my niece thinks we're dating so I don't want to be parading multiples through the house. The 24 year old just wants affirmation and someone to talk to about life. She also likes daddy to tell her she's a good girl.

I was a regular posting on CL but hit on SA and the flood gates have opened. I can barely keep up with life. Going to have to give up on one of life's necessities. Either work, pussy, or drinking with clients has to go.

The other thing I've noticed is they all like to be told what to do. Both in bed and out. But to your point you have to be able to go with the flow. Peaks and valleys. The other thing all these girls are looking for is a strong man. They will eat a weak one. I play it to the point. None of this lovey shit. Be the man they are looking for. Another observation over the years of CL and now SA all of them have a weak father figure or no father. So the first thing I get into on meeting is family history. If the mother wore the pants go for it. If the father did walk away.

I'm going to have to check out Richmond. One of my kids is at GW getting his PhD. Any of you guys hunt in DC or Alexandria?

[EvilTmp]

Not to get all nit-picky but it's not likely she was bipolar if she cycled through emotions that quickly. What I've found is there is a lot of personality disorders in SBs and I'll bet she was either borderline personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder. Look it up and see if it matches. All SDs should know what that looks like and be prepared for the roller coaster that comes with it. (I'm not saying to stay away completely, just know what you're playing with).

I know it's hard to believe for some guys but there are plenty of cute 19-20 year old who easily forget the sugar after once or twice and are just happy with the attention and time spent together. I cringe at the guys who need to spend 500 and even 700 every visit (good god, how long does it take for you to figure out she doesn't like you?). The bowl truly is like a box of chocolates.

I have actually been holding back on writing about my latest findings in the sugar world, partially because I think some of them are hard to describe without either alienating some of the audience, newcomers, or just giving the impression that I'm full of shit.

Now the bad (and this is what you alluded to as well). It is pretty much impossible to do the above without expecting some clingers! All of the ones that I went overnight with did become somewhat clingy. I had one that was particularly memorable -- I stayed an entire workweek with her, and I think we fucked 15-16 times during that period, she was probably one of the more prolific nymphos I've ever met. She very quickly dismissed the idea of receiving allowance, and told me I was more of a "normal dating find" for her than what she expected in an SD, and yes when someone half your age says that, and is fucking your brains out, it does stroke your ego a bit and it's kind of hard to just pack up the suitcases and say goodbye. By day three she claims she loved me and I pretended like she never said it. She was already making all these delusional future plans for us, I mostly just bit my lip and tried to enjoy the eye candy and sex and just let on like I'm not really thinking too far in the future yet. And yes, the more resistent you are to her advances, the more she can sense it and the more of a turn on and challenge it is for her, so she keeps trying. A few times she exhibited nutty behaviors I would describe as bipolar symptoms, getting instantly furious at me for small things, random triggered, then letting her anger dissipate in a matter of seconds and returning to normal. I'm also aware that she was taking meds for some of her issues, meds that specifically warn against mixing with alcohol, yet she was doing it anyway. After I left, it took a few days to fully get rid of her, but I should be in the clear on that one as long as no paternity bullshit arises (I never use condoms). I really think 2-3 days with a girl is the maximum I want to go in the future after my recent experience. She was sad about the break up for a few days, but seems okay now and I'm sure she has probably already invoked her magical (bipolar) powers on another SD out there by now.

...

On the flip side, if I had just stuck to 18-20 year olds, I probably would not have had this problem. Its mostly the 24+ year olds that have started really thinking about their future, decided that they want a stable provider first and foremost, and if you are unmarried and have no kids (or they think you are), then you are a prime target for them. It then becomes a game of trying to have as much fun as possible without trampling on anyone's feelings or worsening the struggles that they already have. I always aim to leave them in better shape than I met them, whatever that means. I'm not sure I always succeed, but I do try.

[BikeRider]

...

Now the bad (and this is what you alluded to as well). It is pretty much impossible to do the above without expecting some clingers! All of the ones that I went overnight with did become somewhat clingy. I had one that was particularly memorable -- I stayed an entire workweek with her, and I think we fucked 15-16 times during that period, she was probably one of the more prolific nymphos I've ever met. She very quickly dismissed the idea of receiving allowance, and told me I was more of a "normal dating find" for her than what she expected in an SD, and yes when someone half your age says that, and is fucking your brains out, it does stroke your ego a bit and it's kind of hard to just pack up the suitcases and say goodbye. By day three she claims she loved me and I pretended like she never said it. She was already making all these delusional future plans for us, I mostly just bit my lip and tried to enjoy the eye candy and sex and just let on like I'm not really thinking too far in the future yet. And yes, the more resistent you are to her advances, the more she can sense it and the more of a turn on and challenge it is for her, so she keeps trying. A few times she exhibited nutty behaviors I would describe as bipolar symptoms, getting instantly furious at me for small things, random triggered, then letting her anger dissipate in a matter of seconds and returning to normal. I'm also aware that she was taking meds for some of her issues, meds that specifically warn against mixing with alcohol, yet she was doing it anyway. After I left, it took a few days to fully get rid of her, but I should be in the clear on that one as long as no paternity bullshit arises (I never use condoms). I really think 2-3 days with a girl is the maximum I want to go in the future after my recent experience. She was sad about the break up for a few days, but seems okay now and I'm sure she has probably already invoked her magical (bipolar) powers on another SD out there by now.
...

I'm guessing you're in your 30's or 40's prime age for this sort of thing. I just advise anyone taking this approach to protect your identity which is incredibly difficult these days.

[BikeRider]

I've not been able to monitor the board that much lately as work is crushing me. I'm on the road about 90% of the time now, and while some of it is nice places (Hawaii / Vegas / South Beach) some of it is not (Newark / East Texas). The last month or so I've been in the Baltimore area which has been interesting. The board there is pretty decent with sharing intel.

It was a busy spring, summer, and fall for me. Between work exploding, a divorce, and pretty much a complete line-up change. Shortly after my divorce, my Korean flight attendant made it clear she was next in line to be the Queen. I made it clear there would never be another Queen. She didn't take it well, and we're now history.

Peds baby and I still meet when we can, but we both have busy schedules and I'm not near her as much. We're still talking about her moving to my home base, but it doesn't make sense right now given my travel schedule.

I'm focusing on civy dating which has changed considerably in just a few years. I'm still on SA, but I'm sensing that there are way more guys than women at this point. Many of the women I've chatted with there recently mention that they've been bombarded with messages.

That's my sitrep. Situation normal, all fucked up.