Rants, Raves and Opinions AKA "The Octagon"

[John HandCock]

One of the biggest complaints and issues on this and other boards is clients taking the chance of seeing ladies who are addicts. Freckle Freak has written of his own experiences with two ladies, one in KY and his late fiance, yes I said FIANCE. He is trying to help us. Boring, hell no. A vulture, no way. This forum is about the spread of information to help Mongers and Providers in finding sexual partners. Women do not I think want to be with clients who are fking addicts. Men I would think do not want to be with providers who are.

Freckle Freak was in my opinion merely trying to put out some concerns. I do not believe he in any way was trying to gain off the loss of Silk who was or appeared to be a fine and clean provider. Unless someone knows for sure then advice and guidance from one who has experienced being used by them should be welcomed. The same holds true for men who have formed special relationships with them then suffered a tragic loss in their life when they passed from addiction.

You might want to rethink you vulture statement. It was rude, crude and uncalled for if you did your homework. If you were just shooting from the hip it was also highly insensitive. He gives good intel. The least you can do whether you agree or not is curb your animus towards him. It seems he has ours and the ladies best interests at heart.

On that note Happy Easter everyone. Doc.

His experience of being used and an enabler is something he chose to do knowingly. His crusade seems to be questionable especially when still going on about the money owed him. Who makes a hooker sign a loan agreement, then goes on about it. For gods sake either sue her or get over it. I'd love to sit in on yhat case LOL. It seems he only has problems with girls that don't 5 want his help. It appears almost every hooker in the tri state area gives him a daily repo8 rt on their clients which makes me wonder Hmm. Its his prerogative to not see a users and report them but once done it turns into being vengeful. Again one goes Hmmm.

[RogerOver]

One of the biggest complaints and issues on this and other boards is clients taking the chance of seeing ladies who are addicts. Freckle Freak has written of his own experiences with two ladies, one in KY and his late fiance, yes I said FIANCE. He is trying to help us. Boring, hell no. A vulture, no way. This forum is about the spread of information to help Mongers and Providers in finding sexual partners. Women do not I think want to be with clients who are fking addicts. Men I would think do not want to be with providers who are.

Freckle Freak was in my opinion merely trying to put out some concerns. I do not believe he in any way was trying to gain off the loss of Silk who was or appeared to be a fine and clean provider. Unless someone knows for sure then advice and guidance from one who has experienced being used by them should be welcomed. The same holds true for men who have formed special relationships with them then suffered a tragic loss in their life when they passed from addiction.

You might want to rethink you vulture statement. It was rude, crude and uncalled for if you did your homework. If you were just shooting from the hip it was also highly insensitive. He gives good intel. The least you can do whether you agree or not is curb your animus towards him. It seems he has ours and the ladies best interests at heart.

On that note Happy Easter everyone. Doc.

We just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think FF is just a manipulative fuck. I appreciate that you think there's some deep thought or that he has sacrificed more that most of us. But that doesn't change my impression.

[ItsTimeToEat]

I would rather fuck than type or read for that matter. We need Cliffs' Notes versions for some of these posts.

[BgDoc3]

One of the biggest complaints and issues on this and other boards is clients taking the chance of seeing ladies who are addicts. Freckle Freak has written of his own experiences with two ladies, one in KY and his late fiance, yes I said FIANCE. He is trying to help us. Boring, hell no. A vulture, no way. This forum is about the spread of information to help Mongers and Providers in finding sexual partners. Women do not I think want to be with clients who are fking addicts. Men I would think do not want to be with providers who are.

Freckle Freak was in my opinion merely trying to put out some concerns. I do not believe he in any way was trying to gain off the loss of Silk who was or appeared to be a fine and clean provider. Unless someone knows for sure then advice and guidance from one who has experienced being used by them should be welcomed. The same holds true for men who have formed special relationships with them then suffered a tragic loss in their life when they passed from addiction.

You might want to rethink you vulture statement. It was rude, crude and uncalled for if you did your homework. If you were just shooting from the hip it was also highly insensitive. He gives good intel. The least you can do whether you agree or not is curb your animus towards him. It seems he has ours and the ladies best interests at heart.

On that note Happy Easter everyone. Doc.

[RogerOver]

I wrote the below post for the Indy forum. Right after I posted it I saw BgDoc3's post about Silk. I felt this post was appropriate for this forum whether Silk passed away from drug related issues or not. There are several in Cincy who are active addicts and may have a short stay on this earth. So this is for those who prefer not to see addicts and I guess for those who do prefer to see addicts as well.

Sorry, but it's true. You are a like a vulture. No value, just showing up on the downside. Fuck off.

[Member #6963]

I wrote the below post for the Indy forum. Right after I posted it I saw BgDoc3's post about Silk. I felt this post was appropriate for this forum whether Silk passed away from drug related issues or not. There are several in Cincy who are active addicts and may have a short stay on this earth. So this is for those who prefer not to see addicts and I guess for those who do prefer to see addicts as well.

What's scary is how easily they cover. I saw Bob's "Stacy" (we call her M) for months and had no idea she was an H addict. She admits it to me, so I'm not guessing, FTR.

Cover is What They Do That's how they survive. Their life as an addict is a complete facade. They can't let their sober family members and sober friends know that they are an addict, heaven forbid. They lie, cheat, steal and most of all do anything and everything to deceive those around them that they are sober and normal. Addiction is a disease of the body, mind and spirit. Here is an excerpt from the NA Fifth Addition book chapter one about who is an addict.

"Our whole life and thinking was centered around drugs in one form or another - the getting and the using and finding ways and means to get more. We lived to use and used to live."

A provider who was an active user once told me that her "SEX" was the drug and the service she provided was the means to get the "Carrot", the $, to feed her sex. A monger on this board asked me to enlighten him on how to tell if someone is an addict. Sometimes it's very easy and sometimes you have to put the pieces of the puzzle of an addicts life together to truly be sure. Most addicts are extremely good at covering up their HIGH for a short period of time, like a provider doing a service. Most of the time they can act fairly normal during a HHR or HR session, just long enough to make the $ to see the pharmacist. The puzzle pieces of addiction are what goes on before and after the session. Here are some of the signs of addiction both the obvious and the puzzle pieces.

Obvious Signs:

Depending on the drug of choice they will be sweating, teeth clenching, rapid jaw movement, head bobbing, obvious paranoia, nodding out, coughing, sniffling or nose dripping. The pupils of the eye will vary depending on the drug of choice. After taking cocaine, marijuana, or amphetamines, for example, your pupils get noticeably larger, while opiates such as heroin constrict the pupils like pinheads. Track marks are another obvious sign but remember some will shoot up in between toes, under the nails of toes or fingers, behind the knee cap, under the tongue, in or around the genitals, etc. Leslie was always able to use the same vein and entry point for the needle, she told me so, most needle users blow their veins up and have to find new ones, Sam is one of these. If they say they got bit by a spider and have a large welt, I can pretty much bet they blew up that vein and a welt is the result. Even though heroin is a depressant a recent user can be very hyper, very active, in other words loves to fuck. But once they sit down and relax they start to nod off. This happened twice with Crissee. Thus an active heroin user who just partook before you walked in can't cuddle for long. This is true with any depressants.

Teeth are another obvious sign. Blackened rotting roots are a result of smoking some sort of drug. Meth and heroin are the worst at this. Skin condition is another. Everyone has heard of the sores on a meth addict. It's a result of the drug and the insistent picking at the body. Crack addicts are similar. Autumn Sky would have severe acne issues when using heavily. Sores and blemishes are not nearly as common with crack as when using meth.

Personal hygiene is another sign. They are messy, room is a mess, trash is piled up, condoms are laying around. That's if they have them. If a provider doesn't have condoms available and try to do it bare then more than likely they are using because they don't care. If she asks you to pick up condoms on the way then just beware of the possibility of her being an addict especially after you do and then she says "we don't have to use it if you don't want to, I'm clean. " Remember you are no special than the monger before you and the one that will follow you.

Pieces of the Puzzle

This is the part I use to confirm whether someone is an active addict or a recovering addict. Many of the obvious signs can be a result of other health issues. Past needle users will have old track marks, past smokers will have bad teeth or just haven't had the money to deal with years of not seeing a dentist. Many of the obvious signs can have several other reasons, but someone with three or more of the obvious signs is an active addict. The most obvious puzzle piece is Follow the Money. They never have any and always need your help. All the stories, I call them lies, they tell you. I was robbed, stolen from, gave it to mom because I owed her, need it for utility bills that are about to be turned off, phone bill is due, child support is due, I have to pay back a friend, dog died, I wrecked my car, I'm sleeping in my car (when it's below zero outside) well I can go on and on. Remember an active will lie about anything to get their next fix, so follow the lies. They will eventually trip up and say one lie that is completely inconsistent with previous lie.

The economics of following the money is also important. A decent sober provider that gives good service at a very nominal $100 per visit will see 4 - 5 hobbyists a day. So let's say it's 4, that's $400 per day, five days a week is $2,000 week or $8,000 a month before any expenses. Yet they never have any money. Heroin sells for around $200 a gram depending on the grade and how it is cut. A moderate user is going through anywhere from 1-3 grams a day. That's a $200 - $600 a day habit. Thus the $400 service fees diminish very quickly. So now go back to the lies as why they don't have the money and desperately need your help. The text, the call, the desperation of needing only $40 or $60 or $80 dollars, can you please help them out? A monger told me that Jasmine contacted him recently and offered $40 for greek service. She doesn't like greek, but the need for a fix was greater than the pain she was going to have in her ass for a couple of minutes.

Gathering the evidence is also an important piece of the puzzle. Arriving early and not leaving right after the session helps to add to the pieces. I arrived early to see Kat, right after another monger saw her. She told me she had to wait on her mother to pick up money so "Could I hold off before coming over. " Sure I said, little did she know that I was parked down the street. She had two visitors before she told me to come on. A black guy in a Mercedes and a young white woman in a White SUV. Both times transactions were made through the window and then she texted me "I'm ready". Sam had her supplier come pick up money right after I left. One time I almost ran into him leaving her room right after she had a session with the guy before me. He is both a supplier and a pimp and deals with both Sam and Kat and others that work out of the 21st and Shadeland drug hotels. Locations is another key. Bad hotels and bad areas of town are another sign.

Whenever I evaluate if a provider is an active addict or a recovering addict I use both types of evidence Obvious and Pieces of the Puzzle. Now most of you don't need to do all of this. To you it's simple, they are provider / escorts so they must be using otherwise they wouldn't be doing this. I don't see it that way. There are several that do it because that's the way they earn a living or the way they get the sex they need and get paid for it. I also like to believe someone until they prove me wrong so I do believe some stories, hell we all get bad luck every so often. But not for 4,5,6,7,8 etc. Months! That is Sam, Kat, Jasmine, Christine and now probably Star. They always have an excuse for needing help, living in a dive and always out of money. So this is how I do it, I have learned much over the years and I won't see a provider if I determine through the above means that she is active. I will not enable them like I did Star Baby. I have set my boundaries. Crissee in Cincy is one of the best providers I have known, she begged for my help to stay clean, yet once the pieces of the puzzle were put together I stopped. Her deception was better than her service. She never wanted my help, only my carrot at the end of the session. The problem is I really don't like carrots that much, I prefer Lima beans!

P.S. I just saw BgDoc3's post when I hit post on this one. Silk was a fine lady, I met her years ago. I am sorry for the circumstances. BgDoc3 thank you for the post because many of us knew her. Let the Cincy mongers know that Crissee is headed down the same path as are others. Once again thank you.

[RogerOver]

So much for NOT arguing it with me.

First of all, don't worry about if other guys thinks I am being ridiculous or not. Second, don't worry about what other girls would or would not do. Please try not to talk about things that you don't know. I am talking about my own experience with you. You do the same.

As for verification, I understand that's something important for you. However, the way you do it, the way you insist on it, is fricking annoying. At least, it is annoying to me. That's the bottom line.

I told this before, I will just repeat. I refused to share my username until I get some information about the rates and services first (as I always do). I don't believe that this is being a dick. But then again, if it's the case, then I am a proud dick anyway.

Clearly she has enough business that she doesn't need yours. Or mine. #sheisnotthathot LOL.

[DeepBlue798]

I liked the picture idea very much. I should start doing that myself. LOL.

Don't see a reason a chick needs my username or picture prior to seeing me. When they ask for a pic or username, I send a picture of $200. LOL.

I can offer vouches. If that's not good enough, tough shit.

[DeepBlue798]

So much for NOT arguing it with me.

First of all, don't worry about if other guys thinks I am being ridiculous or not. Second, don't worry about what other girls would or would not do. Please try not to talk about things that you don't know. I am talking about my own experience with you. You do the same.

As for verification, I understand that's something important for you. However, the way you do it, the way you insist on it, is fricking annoying. At least, it is annoying to me. That's the bottom line.

I told this before, I will just repeat. I refused to share my username until I get some information about the rates and services first (as I always do). I don't believe that this is being a dick. But then again, if it's the case, then I am a proud dick anyway.

No that's the normal thing to ask bc if I can't verify you then I'm not going to see you. And in the 7 years I've done this nobody has ever been a dick about giving their USA name to verify them, except you. And I recall other guys on the board also said that you were being ridiculous for not wanting to give it out either. I'm not going to argue with you but I've never once agreed to or set up a session before verifying anyone ever. And no other girls I know would do it either. You blew it way out of proportion. It kills me how some of you act towards us. We can't ever defend ourselves and nobody hears our side of things. You guys get on here and tear us apart over the most trivial things. Its ridiculous.

[Member #5522]

I contacted you some time ago and have since crossed you off my list of who not to see. I gave my user name and you were just off during the whole process.

I'm not defending anyone else here, just voicing my experience. You however are not helping your case with the other gents on here seeking out someone to be your white Knight and ride in to your rescue.

I understand that you ladies on here have a few back channels to communicate and discuss the guys on this and other boards. Go plead your case there.

No that's the normal thing to ask bc if I can't verify you then I'm not going to see you. And in the 7 years I've done this nobody has ever been a dick about giving their USA name to verify them, except you. And I recall other guys on the board also said that you were being ridiculous for not wanting to give it out either. I'm not going to argue with you but I've never once agreed to or set up a session before verifying anyone ever. And no other girls I know would do it either. You blew it way out of proportion. It kills me how some of you act towards us. We can't ever defend ourselves and nobody hears our side of things. You guys get on here and tear us apart over the most trivial things. Its ridiculous.

[RogerOver]

No that's the normal thing to ask bc if I can't verify you then I'm not going to see you. And in the 7 years I've done this nobody has ever been a dick about giving their USA name to verify them, except you. And I recall other guys on the board also said that you were being ridiculous for not wanting to give it out either. I'm not going to argue with you but I've never once agreed to or set up a session before verifying anyone ever. And no other girls I know would do it either. You blew it way out of proportion. It kills me how some of you act towards us. We can't ever defend ourselves and nobody hears our side of things. You guys get on here and tear us apart over the most trivial things. Its ridiculous.

Don't see a reason a chick needs my username or picture prior to seeing me. When they ask for a pic or username, I send a picture of $200. LOL.

I can offer vouches. If that's not good enough, tough shit.

[Glockman]

Yeah, you answer fast but then you are annoying on the phone (at least for me). The first thing comes out of your mouth is; "what's your username" followed by "what's your username". I believe you have to improve your communication skills.

Man, my username is my passport to pussy. When I contact a lady for the first time or the twentieth time, the first sentence is "this is Glockman!"

[Admin2]

I know you didn't love I just meant I don't understand why the girls don't answer either. Do they hate money? LOL I look at this as its my job and I take it seriously. And you're right I hate late night calls and texts and for you guys it can be damaging if you're married. Its crazy I'd never contact anyone late. All in all I guess the hobby has just changed since I left, not for the better either it seems for us or you guys.

Why do people say "I'm not going to argue with you" literally while they are arguing.

It's like guys who say "No offense intended" when CLEARLY offense was intended and it's just as clear they lack the intelligence and imagination to be sarcastic.

I don't understand this.

A2.

[JosiJames]

I didn't contact you dear. I contacted those close to where I work. But get this at 1:38 AM. This morning I get a text from Zalie24 one of which I reached out to. Saying. " What's up? " I mean WTF?

I know you didn't love I just meant I don't understand why the girls don't answer either. Do they hate money? LOL I look at this as its my job and I take it seriously. And you're right I hate late night calls and texts and for you guys it can be damaging if you're married. Its crazy I'd never contact anyone late. All in all I guess the hobby has just changed since I left, not for the better either it seems for us or you guys.

[JosiJames]

Yeah, you answer fast but then you are annoying on the phone (at least for me). The first thing comes out of your mouth is; "what's your username" followed by "what's your username". I believe you have to improve your communication skills.

No that's the normal thing to ask bc if I can't verify you then I'm not going to see you. And in the 7 years I've done this nobody has ever been a dick about giving their USA name to verify them, except you. And I recall other guys on the board also said that you were being ridiculous for not wanting to give it out either. I'm not going to argue with you but I've never once agreed to or set up a session before verifying anyone ever. And no other girls I know would do it either. You blew it way out of proportion. It kills me how some of you act towards us. We can't ever defend ourselves and nobody hears our side of things. You guys get on here and tear us apart over the most trivial things. Its ridiculous.