Massage Parlor Reports

[iamioman]

...There has also been some research recently that states that countries that have legalized prostitution have lower rat
es of sex crimes against women. ...

I haven't seen international statistics about this but someone researched rates of violence against women in RI that appeared to show a lower rate of crime against women when prostitution wasn't illegal, but thje numbers don't work if you look at more than a couple of yeears pre and post decriminalization if you don't look at a very specific range of years the numbers don't show any correlation.

[Member #4942]

I think we're "beating a dead horse" and need to get back to reporting the good and bad at the spas. For example, is M still the best "other worldly" experience? But seriously, the spas are open and seem to be "safe", and we need to continue to help one another.

A number of PM's to me have been very favorable about Opulance. Techs are young, beautiful and have become accommodating. May be worth a visit. They sure look good on BP every day.

[Rebrobate218]

Casey wrote a good post, but it's good for us not the Providence Journal.

This was for a spa in Philly, but the same bullshit applies.

[Rebrobate218]

Casey wrote a good post, but it's good for us not the Providence Journal.

This is a cut and past of what I put on another site.

I lived in Rhode Island a few year ago when indoor prostitution was not a criminal offense. What happened was that a decade earlier the state legislature rewrote the prostitution laws and addressed street walking only. This made prostitution inside of a building not legal but not illegal. So the strip clubs were straight-up brothels and you had many massage spas in Providence. When legal issue became common knowledge it was an embarrassment to the state and they change the law very quickly. The argument was that it was to protect trafficked girls and women when in reality the state had egg on its face. After the law was changed and blowhard crusaders like Donna Hughes and the Polaris foundation made a lot of noise the cops raided all of the massage parlors in Providence. They arrested a lot of girls and spent huge amounts of resources on this and only got several misdemeanors convictions for prostitution. The city of Providence and the State police found no evidence of human trafficking or sexual slavery. Next the cops raided a few of the strip clubs and set up phony Craig's list pages, etc. They managed to arrest the mascot for the Patriots. For a while they left the Asian spas alone and targeted Latino's and where still not able to evidence human trafficking.

Donna Hughes and her group insisted that the spas were a hot bed of sexual slavery. I guess she is a better investigator than the state police. Somebody actually looked at her research and the number people trafficked into this industry and crunch her numbers. If they were true than every Asian in Providence would have had to have been trafficked. Dr. Hughes quickly change her focus to low level pimping. What I find amazing is that these activist seem not to have the well being of prostitutes in mind but are simply offended by the idea of prostitution. Also, it is always slavery, poverty and drug addition never come into play.

[Ambrose]

Sorry, but I've never liked that "lower rates of sex crimes against women" argument. That implies that instead of raping somebody a rapist will just go to a spa. Maybe true, but I don't want to hear it, and it's not a good point to argue IMO. A person who is against spa's isn't going to say, "oh, that's a good outlet for the rapists", "we'll let the spa's stay open".

Casey wrote a good post, but it's good for us not the Providence Journal.

[Member #5912]

You should send this to the Providence Journal. I think it's time that people who are clear thinking start to change the narrative. There has also been some research recently that states that countries that have legalized prostitution have lower rates of sex crimes against women. The government has never been able to stop drugs or alcohol. Nor have they ever stopped the sex industry. They do have a history of driving vices underground into the hands of criminals.

Sorry, but I've never liked that "lower rates of sex crimes against women" argument. That implies that instead of raping somebody a rapist will just go to a spa. Maybe true, but I don't want to hear it, and it's not a good point to argue IMO. A person who is against spa's isn't going to say, "oh, that's a good outlet for the rapists", "we'll let the spa's stay open".

[Sr Diablito]

Has anyone joined? Whats your take? Thumbs up or down. I'd be interested to know.

[Sr Diablito]

So sad and so misguided. Rhode Island had been close to the model of many countries like Holland where this service had legal / quasi-legal status and is easily managed.

The RI facilities were consistently clean and carefully screened clientele to avoid problems keeping out drunks and abusers. The staffers were trained to carefully examine potential customers for health issues via the table shower component. Non-covered service was strictly forbidden and enforced.

If you were friendly with the staffers you could learn about their townhouses in Flushing and that property taxes were rising. That they may be learning tennis or golf. Many had family both in the States & Korea and would fly back often and add financial support to their extended family. NONE were spring chickens, few under 30 years of age. They have the same interests we do and like to take vacations, travel and relax when not working.

They know many of the managers and staffers from family and friend connections, they are NOT coerced. They like working with people they know, talking with colleagues of common heritage and sharing a group home-cooked meal. They work hard but have some control over their work setting similar to a therapist or other self-employed.

Many have American GIs in their extended family as they met, then married aunts / sisters / mothers while serving in Korea.

Just like the Dutch / other civilized systems the Rhode Island arrangement offered a service option to some with patrons with physical disabilities, seniors or others with social limitations in a SAFE, healthy environment.

Now the politicians can have their day. They can make all kinds of absurd claims with catchy media labels like "human trafficking" which may not have an iota of factual truth and take long media bows for solving a problem that doesn't exist and harms no one. A great resume item when you run for re-election to take the focus off a candidate's actual record which may / may not show any concrete public service.

Nowhere do I recall in the recent years media coverage of this issue ANY attempt to provide a balanced approach. Never comparisons to the many civilized countries (Canada, Germany, Australia) who regulate this industry in the same manner that Rhode Island had done so successfully for so long and the reasons this approach is preferred.

Those who know history or are Vets having served in the Pacific during WWII or Nam know the USA Government established service areas for our troops - "Hotel Street" at Pearl and the many such entertainment zones in Nam, Korea, PI and the like. They did so to manage the activity for the health of the service men & providers.

Sad we appear in the process of undoing a successful social practice proven successful in many countries, including our own, and condoned by many governments including our own.

Alas, we are all a victim of our own local politics.

You should send this to the Providence Journal. I think it's time that people who are clear thinking start to change the narrative. There has also been some research recently that states that countries that have legalized prostitution have lower rates of sex crimes against women. The government has never been able to stop drugs or alcohol. Nor have they ever stopped the sex industry. They do have a history of driving vices underground into the hands of criminals.

[Flatspd]

It was an awesome run while it was semi legal in providence but now the pressure seems to be on everywhere. I've got to much to risk to take chances. It would be a career ender Time for this guy to lay low and see how this all plays out.

I agree, can't have LEO knocking on my door. Unfortunately this will all go to the nasty underground where thing happen much worse than the alleged trafficking. Trafficking is horrible, but not the case here.

[Choir Boy]

You guys got the story wrong.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/293...assage-parlors

Watch the video. I almost choked on my dinner when they interviewed the russian lady. "Lotta traffic, lotta traffic, all men". LOL


Boy I'd like some FS from Joy lin Nakrin BTW.

"As a result of the investigation, 10 people. Six women and three men. Faced charges of sex trafficking, maintaining a house of prostitution, sexual conduct for a fee and possession of child pornography. ".

Who was the 10th? A Klingon?

[Alover]

It is so tragic and so important to stop human trafficking and I agree. But why does it take over a year to do something and as they pointed out in the video, it was 4 male ring leaders and 6 females arrested. So basically they arrested the victims and set bail for them from 5,000 to 15,000. Where would human trafficked women get that kind of money? Also who is trafficking 40+ yr. Asians? Again I agree that human trafficking is wrong but I like to believe this isn't a human trafficking case.

Come on guys. This happened in Plymouth, MA not in RI. So far LE has given fair warning before moving in. Main, for example, closed under pressure and still may return after figuring out how to stay "within the law" (and I really miss Yoko). I really don't feel the need to worry as long as we know where our particular spa is in relationship to the "so called law". Going to the spas is still OK in MHO as long as we are aware of the LE presence, if one exists. Enso, for example, is about two blocks from the police station yet we can have a "good time" and not worry, and the same applies for SS and O. If there is pressure from LE we will know and act accordingly. Continue to be safe but don't be paranoid. YET!

How do you know you're not being watched and recorded now? Can you afford for LEO to come knocking at your door?

[Member #4942]

It was an awesome run while it was semi legal in providence but now the pressure seems to be on everywhere. I've got to much to risk to take chances. It would be a career ender Time for this guy to lay low and see how this all plays out.

Come on guys. This happened in Plymouth, MA not in RI. So far LE has given fair warning before moving in. Main, for example, closed under pressure and still may return after figuring out how to stay "within the law" (and I really miss Yoko). I really don't feel the need to worry as long as we know where our particular spa is in relationship to the "so called law". Going to the spas is still OK in MHO as long as we are aware of the LE presence, if one exists. Enso, for example, is about two blocks from the police station yet we can have a "good time" and not worry, and the same applies for SS and O. If there is pressure from LE we will know and act accordingly. Continue to be safe but don't be paranoid. YET!

[Kool Zero]

You guys got the story wrong.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/293...assage-parlors

Watch the video. I almost choked on my dinner when they interviewed the russian lady. "Lotta traffic, lotta traffic, all men". LOL


Boy I'd like some FS from Joy lin Nakrin BTW.

It is so tragic and so important to stop human trafficking and I agree. But why does it take over a year to do something and as they pointed out in the video, it was 4 male ring leaders and 6 females arrested. So basically they arrested the victims and set bail for them from 5,000 to 15,000. Where would human trafficked women get that kind of money? Also who is trafficking 40+ yr. Asians? Again I agree that human trafficking is wrong but I like to believe this isn't a human trafficking case.

[Alover]

It was an awesome run while it was semi legal in providence but now the pressure seems to be on everywhere. I've got to much to risk to take chances. It would be a career ender Time for this guy to lay low and see how this all plays out.

[SMS 54]

I don't know anyone who would weant to be caught up in a sting, but it sounds fishy. I wonder if the radio station had the details right.

Looking at it logically, LE isn't going to have EVIDENCE that clients did anything illegal - (if they had evidence of illegal activity they wouldn't need testimony from clients in the first place.).

So all they know that a client went to a legal business. LE can infer and suspect and assume the client was going to the business for illegal purposes, but that isn't enough to convict someone on and no the. A. Is going to charge someone on a case they have no evidence for.

So if LE has no evidence 10 clients did anything illegal then what carrot did LE offer to get them to testify?

If LE offered to trade testimony for immunity and not having to go to court I could see some guys (forgetting LE has no evidence on them) panicking and agreeing.

But if they are giving testimony against the spa they have to go to court, and their names will be in the public record and they'll be seen in court so that undercuts the appeal of that kind of offer.

So the remaining question is. Why would 10 guys agree to testify against the spa when the police have no evidence they did anything wrong?

I am not going to speculate on what transpired here, and I know it is very easy to say, no one is required to testify against themselves. But here is a scenario that happened in 2010 or 2011 in Warren Ohio, which was once one of the best mongering in spa areas in the country. This will be an abbreviated version of the events that took place there, but you can review the forums for that location starting before when everything was good, and follow it through if you have an inclination, and too much time on your hands.

The do-gooders brought it to the attention of the state AG, who devised this plan in order to make some big headlines. So surveillance was done with some cameras around parking areas near the spas, and some license plate data was gleaned, along with some MV stops and some questions, like what happened in there, etc. Then the LE either shows up at the mongers door, you know, just to ask a few more questions, and / or some repeated phone calls to the mongers home, again, just to check on a few more things. And of course the mongers spouse wants to know what was that all about, and the next thing you know, the LE had 20 or so affidavits signed that basically told them everything they needed to close the places down, which in several cases was done on live TV. If I remember correctly, the mongers were granted immunity in return for their affidavits. There was no testimony in open court, but the places were shut down administratively, thousands in cash was forfeited, and the huge supply of condoms found was displayed to the media.