"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[FredMoore]

Soliciting would be easy to set up. A hot agent provocateur could set up M&Gs with a bunch of Pots and get them to offer $ for sex. Bang! Soliciting. Scary thought. Always leave S-E-X out of the discussion. IDK if $ for "time together" or "private time " is enough to take to court. The mere fact of being arrested is all it would take to ruin someone's life or career since the SO and public opinion directs those things anyway. Methinks that LE has too many bigger targets such as Street soliciting, drug sales ands abuse, high volume escorting, pimp involvement, etc to spend their time trying to nab a couple of Pot SDs. In my area prostitution is in the top 10 in the nation and busts are regularly reported where 20 people are snared including Pimps and escorts along with the Johns. CL and BP are high risk indeed for Stings and violence. Could they ever go for the Sugar trade? Yeppp!

[HollywoodGuy]

Good Evening hwg, I appreciate all of your honesty, and that's something I've realized is very important for these type of arrangements to work out. I'm a naughty princess who is willing to become all yours, I've never had an arrangement with anyone off the site or have I've met any one in person yet. Just the other day, I was going to just give up with my search. I'm glad I've came across your email. I look foward to meeting you soon, I would perfer coffee first of course to see if there is chemistry. If you are still interested; just let me know the following days and times your available.


She is so ready. Sugar dating is cutting edge. New rules made everyday. and always a new girl just around the corner.

[John252]

Thanks for the discussion thus far.

My little friend has extensive knowledge of this SB, and she of him.

Threats are not physical.

Money vs exposure to job / family / neighbors.

Money amounts escalate.

[HollywoodGuy]

Depends on ones definition of "crossing paths" with regard to LE and SD sites. If you mean LE launching stings from SD sites, I would agree that has not happened much yet. It also did not happen much in the early days of Craigslist, and after LE started using CL regularly it took them a while to start using BP for stings. They will evolve their methods toward SD sites eventually if they appear too high on the radar.

Someone else will need to invest the time to fish out actual links for these, but I have heard of at least five cases in the last year that somehow intertwined LE and SD sites in ways that were not good for the SD (none of them were sting related).

One was the notorious Google exec case, one was the attempted robbery with knife case I mentioned earlier, one was a cop whose case was outlined in detail in the Ohio SB forum here on USASG (he was arrested when they found he was paying an SB he met on SA), and there have been two more cases described on the Dr Phil show since this time last year (I don't watch it but my GF does, so I take notice whenever they talk about sugarbabies).

Those are only the ones I aware of in the last 12 months where it would be disadvantageous for an SD to be caught texting or e-mailing an SB soliciting sex for money.

Yeah. A sting. Girls jacking you is a risk no matter how you meet them (especially at the alter). And CL is the bottom of the barrel. But most stings there are towards the girls. In L. A. They are always looking for girls too young to be there. But I always check ID when suspicious.

[JZLizard]

I may have posted this before. There is only one case where LE and the SD sites crossed paths. And it really had nothing to do with either one. It was just one individual that was being targeted and the SD site was used to entrap the person. His case was ultimately thrown out of court. That was over 7 years ago.

Depends on ones definition of "crossing paths" with regard to LE and SD sites. If you mean LE launching stings from SD sites, I would agree that has not happened much yet. It also did not happen much in the early days of Craigslist, and after LE started using CL regularly it took them a while to start using BP for stings. They will evolve their methods toward SD sites eventually if they appear too high on the radar.

Someone else will need to invest the time to fish out actual links for these, but I have heard of at least five cases in the last year that somehow intertwined LE and SD sites in ways that were not good for the SD (none of them were sting related).

One was the notorious Google exec case, one was the attempted robbery with knife case I mentioned earlier, one was a cop whose case was outlined in detail in the Ohio SB forum here on USASG (he was arrested when they found he was paying an SB he met on SA), and there have been two more cases described on the Dr Phil show since this time last year (I don't watch it but my GF does, so I take notice whenever they talk about sugarbabies).

Those are only the ones I aware of in the last 12 months where it would be disadvantageous for an SD to be caught texting or e-mailing an SB soliciting sex for money.

[JZLizard]

Looks like I confused a post from FredMoore and attributed it to you. Sorry about that (your name was referenced in the post, which may be why I attributed it to you).

NP. I was wondering about that.

[HollywoodGuy]

Looks like I confused a post from FredMoore and attributed it to you. Sorry about that (your name was referenced in the post, which may be why I attributed it to you).

Like FredMoore, I personally prefer discussing the arrangement before hand for a variety of reasons. I also prefer talking about it in person, face to face, for a variety of reasons, including not having a paper trail. Mostly I don't want, as FredMoore so aptly put it, a hot girl hunting me down because of differences in expectations.

IMHO, everything is situational. So hypothetically speaking, if a girl was extorting me for money by threatening me with physical assault charges, and seemed like she was crazy enough to go to the police, I would probably try to get a paper trail ASAP. Since I personally would rather deal with fighting a solicitation charge than a physical assault charge. Hypothetically if I was being held up after walking into a sbs house, I would probably call the cops since I'd rather be in jail than dead. If I got taken for my money (which has happened) I would do (and have done) what the OP did. Which is post info on this website to warn others.

While being arrested has the potential to damage ones life, a good lawyer should be able to keep you out of jail (depending on how careful one is). So while I tend to view things sitiationally, my general rule of thumb is that if physical harm to you or someone else is in imminent danger of physical harm, the police should probably be involved.

I may have posted this before. There is only one case where LE and the SD sites crossed paths. And it really had nothing to do with either one. It was just one individual that was being targeted and the SD site was used to entrap the person. His case was ultimately thrown out of court. That was over 7 years ago.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Looks like I confused a post from FredMoore and attributed it to you. Sorry about that (your name was referenced in the post, which may be why I attributed it to you).

Like FredMoore, I personally prefer discussing the arrangement before hand for a variety of reasons. I also prefer talking about it in person, face to face, for a variety of reasons, including not having a paper trail. Mostly I don't want, as FredMoore so aptly put it, a hot girl hunting me down because of differences in expectations.

IMHO, everything is situational. So hypothetically speaking, if a girl was extorting me for money by threatening me with physical assault charges, and seemed like she was crazy enough to go to the police, I would probably try to get a paper trail ASAP. Since I personally would rather deal with fighting a solicitation charge than a physical assault charge. Hypothetically if I was being held up after walking into a sbs house, I would probably call the cops since I'd rather be in jail than dead. If I got taken for my money (which has happened) I would do (and have done) what the OP did. Which is post info on this website to warn others.

While being arrested has the potential to damage ones life, a good lawyer should be able to keep you out of jail (depending on how careful one is). So while I tend to view things sitiationally, my general rule of thumb is that if physical harm to you or someone else is in imminent danger of physical harm, the police should probably be involved.

JL is unique and must be date worthy for these babies (picture brad Pitt) Unless you are an uber generous tipper, and I mean $300 up per visit, you run the risk of having a pissed off or disappointed Baby. My ATF 19 yr old is a case in point. We never discussed money. She came to my apartment and we ended up having the most energetic sex of my career. I dropped $200 in her purse and took her home. When I called her for a 2nd date she said her goal was $800 for her years books for school. I explained that 3 more times together and she had it banked, but she did not see it that way. Words were exchanged -tightwad and asshole featured prominently in the tirade. You do not want an angry girl hunting you down. So get it straight up front. The good news is I got to bang an incredibly hot girl who would never have come for $$ had she known in advance.

[JZLizard]

JL. I agree that your approach of not ever discussing allowance is probably a best practice. Of course, as you yourself noted in a prior post, not setting expectations can lead to having a pissed off SB who is upset at the gift you provided if she thinks it is too low.

Would you mind to cite the post you're referring to? If I conveyed it that way, I must have done a careless job of communicating my thoughts, or simply been thinking in another context. What I may have been trying to say is that *if* you enter into some sort of agreement with a girl, then the expectations on both ends should be well understood. By that I mean if you've been to the FC with someone a few times, but you want her to be exclusive arm candy, not see other SDs, move in or whatever and are offering a specific allowance for that, then yes I do believe it is important for both sides to know what they are getting into.

But I have never advocated agreement to pay for the first FC visit or a per-fuck amount. That aspect of my position has never changed. I also have never tried to tell someone else to change the methods that work for them in their particular geographic market, I only offer advice based on how I do it. I've mentioned sometimes I have to cut them loose before I ever meet them because they want to talk money, but it's not like women are in short supply, so it's worth it to focus on quality versus quantity and just move on to someone else who doesn't demand a money agreement before trying each other out in the FC.

I look at it like this: I want SBs who genuinely like sex. The last thing I want is to pay someone to ACT like they are enjoying fucking me when they really aren't. So, if they really do want to fuck me, I shouldn't have to wave a handful of cash, travelers checks, booksfull of S&H Greenstamps or whatever just to get them to drop their panties -- that's an act of desperation. Sure, there will be some girls that demand that, there's a name for them -- escorts (and there is a time and place for escorts I just don't think SD dating is either). There is an entire additional category of women who are attracted to successful men, would like the financial security of dating one, but also genuinely enjoy fucking them. The approach I recommend tends to attract that type and scare off all the rest.

As FredMoore noted, making sure a SB relationship ends well helps to avoid situations that involve Blackmail / Extortion.

I am all for anything that prevents the blackmail or extortion, but to me, the first step in minimizing that sort of thing is to avoid contact with folks who are already involving themselves in illegal activity in the first place. Any SB (or female) for that matter is capable of turning on us, but an escort is more likely to have other issues (lack of stability, drug problems, perhaps even existing criminal record etc.) that makes them more likely candidates for trouble.

I agree that we should exercise good social skills and judgment at all times to minimize trouble, regardless of the situation. I just think that folks need to be very careful before involving the police at all. Try to get out of the situation before it gets to that point. There was a story on here a while back about a guy that had been seeing these two girls regularly for many months. One day almost out of no where they get pissed of at him while riding in his car, and pull a knife and threaten him with it. So he bolts, abandoning his car, and calls the cops. They tell the cops he has been giving them "allowance" to meet him and all three of them go to jail, his mug on the news. You would think he would know them well enough after a few months of regular fucking to either avoid or defuse a situation like that, but you can never be sure with women. They are all just one PMS episode away from doing something unimaginable. So, in order to prepare for that day, we should be sure we didn't leave a paper trail of any illegal behaviors.

I also want to say that in terms of pros, I'm no angel. One thing I like to do is hit up strippers for takeout. Those that will are pros by definition. I'm not looking down on those who do hire escorts in anyway, there is a time and place for them. I'm just saying that once an SD visits a girl regularly, there is an increased chance of something to go wrong and into the direction of blackmail/extortion. It's better to be prepared when the shit hits the fan with nothing like emails or texts proving you offered money for sex.

[FTP1999]

JeezLizard and others.

Please don't jump to conclusions with limited details here.

I saw her before, at that same apartment, with a friend of hers, nothing sexual. This was not the first meet.

No offense man but did you really think this was a sugar baby with a tagline like "if you want it come get it"? ... Just for the record, no legitimate SB would ever invite you to her place for the first meeting. If she does that, she is a hardened pro.

[IluvSmellyFish]

JL. I agree that your approach of not ever discussing allowance is probably a best practice. Of course, as you yourself noted in a prior post, not setting expectations can lead to having a pissed off SB who is upset at the gift you provided if she thinks it is too low. As FredMoore noted, making sure a SB relationship ends well helps to avoid situations that involve Blackmail / Extortion. Of course if you're good at reading people, and have a pretty good sense of whether a SB will think a gift is too low, or have the ability to avoid girls who will do something crazy if she doesn't like the gift you gave her, then as an SD one wouldn't ever have a need to ever discuss expectations. You are probably experienced enough in life and the bowl to able to cull pots before trips to the FC and wouldn't ever put yourself in such a situation, but there are others, who are newer to the bowl, who lack that ability. For them, a trip to the FC might not ever happen without discussion of expectations at some point.

I also agree that involving the cops in any situation can ruin family life, career, etc. Which is why I caveated my recommendation to the OP on the thread we're discussing by pointing out that someone with an SO might not want to deal with the repercussions of involving the law. That being said, my recommendation for involving the law was meant to be caveated generally for if and when physical violence was involved. Your response to my post appears to only have included half of my recommendation. The other relevant portion of my response to the OP is in quotes below.

"Depending on how everything happened, you could report her to the police. Of course, if you gave her your money voluntarily and then left because of the very awkward situation created when her friends came in yelling and screaming, the cops will probably tell you that you're wasting your time. If her friends came in with a weapon and threatened you for your money, that's a different situation entirely and probably should be reported to the cops (unless you have an SO and don't want to have to explain why you have to go to court to testify against some young girl who scammed you). ".

IMHO, if a guy who is new to the Sugar Scene is threatened with physical violence for their money by a SB scammer, that individual should be going to the police, unless it has the potential to destroy their life (e. G. Their relationship with their SO / destroy their career, etc.). If he doesn't go to the police, then scammers who are threatening people with physical violence remain in the bowl, have no incentive to take their act elsewhere, will continue to scam others, and might actually end up hurting someone (which will definitely draw attention to the sugar scene).

On the other hand, if the guy just got taken for a ride (I. E. No violence or threat of violence involved), then tough luck, lesson learned, and no need to go to the cops since they'll probably tell him that no crime was committed and that he shouldn't be going to the houses of strangers with money in hand and expectations of intimacy.

Just my two cents.

The problem is that once someone has exchanged an e-mail agreeing to an amount of money for the FC, in the eyes of most courts they are now a john. There have been some cases posted here to USASG in the past where the SD was arrested simply because the girl told the cops that money was exchanged for intimacy. The court may have problem getting an actual conviction depending on how much someone is willing to spend on a lawyer, but by that time the SD's mugshot is the first thing to come up in a Google search on his name, in perpetuity, affecting his career / family etc.

This is one of the reasons I never talk money with girls. Bang-them, then gift them the way I see fit. No discussion of money ever takes place.

[JZLizard]

As a general rule, I don't provide the allowance until after the date has ended. Also, unlike Backpage scams, there are no laws that I'm aware of that criminalize being a SD. If you find yourself in an awkward situation like that again, you can always pull out your cellphone, dial 911, and hit the speaker phone. Remember, you're a SD, not a "john".

The problem is that once someone has exchanged an e-mail agreeing to an amount of money for the FC, in the eyes of most courts they are now a john. There have been some cases posted here to USASG in the past where the SD was arrested simply because the girl told the cops that money was exchanged for intimacy. The court may have problem getting an actual conviction depending on how much someone is willing to spend on a lawyer, but by that time the SD's mugshot is the first thing to come up in a Google search on his name, in perpetuity, affecting his career / family etc.

This is one of the reasons I never talk money with girls. Bang-them, then gift them the way I see fit. No discussion of money ever takes place.

[JZLizard]

Where's a good place to report scammer rom SeekingArrangement.com?
She runs a typical scam. It happened to me, avoid:
She lures you into her place with promises of sex, takes your money, as you are taking clothes of, her friends knock on the dor and come in, yelling and scremaing.
You get the point.
Sweet girl, sweet body, total scam.
Avoid.
See her pictures below.

No offense man but did you really think this was a sugar baby with a tagline like "if you want it come get it"?

I know there are escorts that use SB sites as alternative marketing, but if there was ever anything of value to be gained from this gigantic monolithic thread full of nothingness, it should be that it taught one or two people to understand the difference between an escort and an SB. And yes, if you patronize escorts, eventually you'll get scammed. Real SBs might be gold diggers, they might be GPS, they might be bitches, sometimes they are downright nuts, extortion and blackmail is even possible just as it is with dating any crazy girl -- but in general you don't have to worry about the lower echelon of hooker robberies like this type of scam.

However, if people continue to use the SD / SB scene as a front for escorting, it's only a matter of time before regulation finds a way to shut down the activity and put the websites out of business. It's no different than revoking the liquor license of bars and nightclubs because of evidence of recurring illegal activity -- serving beer isn't illegal, but if residents complain or if cops keep getting called, it won't matter in the end, it will be bye-bye fun times.

When I first saw this thread, I thought it was going to be a legitimate attempt to educate the masses on the difference between SBs and escorts.

Yet somehow I get the feeling that zero progress has been made.

Just for the record, no legitimate SB would ever invite you to her place for the first meeting. If she does that, she is a hardened pro.

[IluvSmellyFish]

You could probably report the individual to the site and ask that her profile be suspended. That being said, she could just as easily set up another profile. Depending on how everything happened, you could report her to the police. Of course, if you gave her your money voluntarily and then left because of the very awkward situation created when her friends came in yelling and screaming, the cops will probably tell you that you're wasting your time. If her friends came in with a weapon and threatened you for your money, that's a different situation entirely and probably should be reported to the cops (unless you have an SO and don't want to have to explain why you have to go to court to testify against some young girl who scammed you).

As a general rule, I don't provide the allowance until after the date has ended. Also, unlike Backpage scams, there are no laws that I'm aware of that criminalize being a SD. If you find yourself in an awkward situation like that again, you can always pull out your cellphone, dial 911, and hit the speaker phone. Remember, you're a SD, not a "john".

Posting her pics here on this forum is helpful since it will prevent any forum members / lurkers / readers from contacting her. A good lesson though.

Where's a good place to report scammer rom SeekingArrangement.com?

She runs a typical scam. It happened to me, avoid:

She lures you into her place with promises of sex, takes your money, as you are taking clothes of, her friends knock on the dor and come in, yelling and scremaing.

You get the point.

Sweet girl, sweet body, total scam.

Avoid.

See her pictures below.

[HollywoodGuy]

After meeting up with her after a long weekend and blowing my fun money I only had $$$ to get the conversation going. I slipped the cash to her while having drinks at a bar. We had the discussion after FC, which may have helped. Her expectation was up to $5 K. Settled on $1. 6 K min. A month and continuing great dates. Working towards the monthly has been in the form of gifts mostly. She wanted a spa treatment, a parking decal, etc. We never mentioned a certain number of days per month. She's introduced me to a couple of her girlfriends and we're starting to meet regularly. A couple times for coffee and conversation. FC is setup for this weekend.

I'm even pretty impressed with myself in this situation. I banged her so thoroughly, she should be paying me. She mentioned that all the gifts and the great sex was like hitting the lottery.

Hopefully the 1. 6 k a month covers at least 1 overnight visit a week.