"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[PghGuy2005]

Its a $ a date for everything. I don't do hotel rooms anymore. I did have a MILF I was seeing and paying her the $ and then having to pay for the room on top of that because she was an amazing partner. But I ended that a few months ago as I can not justify the expense anymore. I also have a girl that I only see in a room but she costs me nothing so the date ends up being $ for the gas and room. This may seem low but I am single, so if I date 20 times a month it still adds up. Also I do give gifts throughout the year and cover some unexpected expenses that are hard to deny someone you are in a LTR with. I don't really go over the $ until a girl has proven herself over a few months period. Some girls are going to cost more and I balance it out with a few that cost less.

My current ATF is coming over tonite for her 25th date in 3 months and she is spot on at $ a date so far. The sex is awesome and she takes care of her own business with no crying about this and that. So I expect she will be around for a while. Its really the bigger picture I have to look at. Last year I did 260 dates and I did end up at $.6 average (for every expense) overall due to some very generous gift giving. But the result of that was cutting loose the 2 most expensive girls I had. Both of them (my MILF of 3 years and my ATF/GF of 18 months) as they were both averaging $$ a date.

This year I plan on dating less, having longer and better sex on the dates I do have, and seeing as many $ girls as possible. SD creep is real. Get into an LTR and the expenses normally start to creep up. And LTR's is all I mostly go for. It's almost an 80/20 rule. 80% go to my regulars and 20% goes into R&D. My goal for this year would be to lower my per date average to maybe $.3 and do maybe 240 dates. That would knock about 10k off my annual budget. From everything I have read and experienced the only way to lower that would be to see less attractive girls. I have encountered many on the SD site willing to date for .5 but they are below what I need to be happy.

I have learned over time you have to run this like a business if you want to stay in business. Also I did start out paying far more, and sometimes it was awesome and sometimes it wasnt. The quality I get now is all at the awesome level or I leave very very fast. 10 dates tops is my make it or break it level. I never civi date by choice as I need as much control over my time and finances as possible. Not to mention the the age and beauty of the girls. I think we can all agree that at 60 you are not just going to go out and casually hit on 20 year olds.

So just to clarify, when I am talking about cost, it covers every single cost except gas and any emotional wear and tear.

For your purposes if it starts and ends in a hotel room it should be $ plus the cost of the room. Unless you can afford more.

You have been very patient and generous with your time on this forum. This was post was very helpful as I was not considering the complete long term picture.

Just curious what made you switch to SA from SD4 ME?

[HollywoodGuy]

In your how-to you indicated that your offer is $100 per date. Is this in addition to dinner etc?

What would be the amount for a date that starts & ends in a hotel room?

Just making sure that I get your post right.

Its a $ a date for everything. I don't do hotel rooms anymore. I did have a MILF I was seeing and paying her the $ and then having to pay for the room on top of that because she was an amazing partner. But I ended that a few months ago as I can not justify the expense anymore. I also have a girl that I only see in a room but she costs me nothing so the date ends up being $ for the gas and room. This may seem low but I am single, so if I date 20 times a month it still adds up. Also I do give gifts throughout the year and cover some unexpected expenses that are hard to deny someone you are in a LTR with. I don't really go over the $ until a girl has proven herself over a few months period. Some girls are going to cost more and I balance it out with a few that cost less.

My current ATF is coming over tonite for her 25th date in 3 months and she is spot on at $ a date so far. The sex is awesome and she takes care of her own business with no crying about this and that. So I expect she will be around for a while. Its really the bigger picture I have to look at. Last year I did 260 dates and I did end up at $.6 average (for every expense) overall due to some very generous gift giving. But the result of that was cutting loose the 2 most expensive girls I had. Both of them (my MILF of 3 years and my ATF/GF of 18 months) as they were both averaging $$ a date.

This year I plan on dating less, having longer and better sex on the dates I do have, and seeing as many $ girls as possible. SD creep is real. Get into an LTR and the expenses normally start to creep up. And LTR's is all I mostly go for. It's almost an 80/20 rule. 80% go to my regulars and 20% goes into R&D. My goal for this year would be to lower my per date average to maybe $.3 and do maybe 240 dates. That would knock about 10k off my annual budget. From everything I have read and experienced the only way to lower that would be to see less attractive girls. I have encountered many on the SD site willing to date for .5 but they are below what I need to be happy.

I have learned over time you have to run this like a business if you want to stay in business. Also I did start out paying far more, and sometimes it was awesome and sometimes it wasnt. The quality I get now is all at the awesome level or I leave very very fast. 10 dates tops is my make it or break it level. I never civi date by choice as I need as much control over my time and finances as possible. Not to mention the the age and beauty of the girls. I think we can all agree that at 60 you are not just going to go out and casually hit on 20 year olds.

So just to clarify, when I am talking about cost, it covers every single cost except gas and any emotional wear and tear.

For your purposes if it starts and ends in a hotel room it should be $ plus the cost of the room. Unless you can afford more.

[JZLizard]

I can't possibly know you or these girls. But I do know something about sales. I hear a lot on this board about girls flaking on the M&G.

For the most part I'd say we should never expect an SB to be reliable. I've actually been surprised at the fact that none of my M&Gs have actually stood me up at the last minute, but being a seasonal SD, the quantity of SBs and scheduled M&Gs is certainly lower than those involved in it year-round. This is also not to say none have been flaky at all, I've had some that backed out when the expected date of M&G got closer for various reasons (family emergency supposedly but more likely a boyfriend issue or similar), I've just been fortunate in the sense that none of them flaked at the very last minute (which would really suck for a traveling SD like myself, because if you're in town for a limited time, and you've scheduled a date, if she doesn't show up it means you end up at a bar or strip club playing pot luck).

And as long as it's not at the very last minute, I wouldn't hold it against them. Hell I've flaked too, there's two sides to every story involving flaky behavior usually. I once met an POT who I was really looking forward to having some fun with, she sent lots of photos which were great, had all the indications of a great ongoing SB. Then after a while I found her on FB, and saw her recent photos and realized the pics she sent were at least 3-4 years old and she had put on a few pounds since then. So I went dark with no explanation. I felt justified in doing so -- she misled me with photos that made it look like she was in my league when in fact she was not.

So sometimes flake-outs happen randomly and without reason, but sometimes it may have been preventable. I would think most married SDs would want to reserve the right to flake out if something critical and family related came up (suspicious wife, etc). My SD seasons don't have that element of risk, but I still reserve the right to flake out if I feel the POT has misled me.

[PghGuy2005]

In your how-to you indicated that your offer is $100 per date. Is this in addition to dinner etc?

What would be the amount for a date that starts & ends in a hotel room?

Just making sure that I get your post right.

[HollywoodGuy]

So I had scheduled two meet and greets today one was 20 and the other 22. Both of them canceled. The 20 year old just never called back after we both had agreed to day, time and location. The 22 year old suddenly remembered that she had to work. Don't they know that they are only wasting their own time! Stupid young kids!

I can't possibly know you or these girls. But I do know something about sales. I hear a lot on this board about girls flaking on the M&G.

There are two ways to look at any sale (and that is what we are doing here). You can sell someone something or they can buy it from you. I get flaked on maybe 2% of the time or less.

I am selling SB's on the idea of getting paid to have a meaningful experience. Or selling UTR's on the idea of having a safe experience and maybe some repeats. Or pros on the idea of having a discount session.

But rather than looking at it as you talking them into something (which is why I never negotiate or pursue anyone that is too hesitant) think of it as, it being their idea. If they haven't totally sold you on the idea that they are totally excited to meet you, then your fallout rate is going to be high.

Its not hard to get a certain percentage of people to say yes to whatever you suggest because they don't know how to say no. Especially in a situation where you are the dominant personality to begin with. Also I hate to say, but I am a flaker as well. I make way too many dates or dates with "less than girls" when I am feeling desperate, that I never go through with when I come to my senses.

This could go on forever, but I think the point is made.

As a side note. I hate being alone. And rarely have been. I have been with girls I was tired of. But I never ditch them until I have a replacement. This takes the urgency off the M&G, or the need to start up a new LTR for the wrong reason. If you are starting from zero that should only be a one time situation. When I am in a relationship I am always looking. Never stop looking. Better to have a scheduling problem than a loneliness problem.

[Ltnric]

So I had scheduled two meet and greets today one was 20 and the other 22. Both of them canceled. The 20 year old just never called back after we both had agreed to day, time and location. The 22 year old suddenly remembered that she had to work. Don't they know that they are only wasting their own time! Stupid young kids!

[LandonR]

Gentleman, it's time to pack up shop and close the doors. Games over. HollywoodGuy has discovered SA. We're all done.

[PghGuy2005]

When I've provided sugar to the ladies I typically wait until we are both getting dressed or she's getting ready to leave and I find her purse and just put money in it and tell her "I left you some gas / spending / shopping / grocery / etc money in your pure".

Doesn't make it as awkward.

That was very helpful.

[PghGuy2005]

Message 1 - send me an email.

REPLY: emails me to say hi and sends her pics (never ask for them if you can avoid it).

Message 2 - three reasons to be an SB.

REPLY: I really am looking for all three. I have always liked older guys and just need help during school too. You seem like a nice guy! What ru up to?

Message 3 - prequalify the donation amount.

REPLY: I'm not greedy. I am looking for more than just money. I think that would be fine. You seem like a sweet guy who just needs a younger girl to be with _.

Message 4 - give the donation amount.

REPLY: Ya that makes sense well I think your handsome and would love to hang out sometime.

If they reply with an outsized donation amount. Go silent or just say "Sorry babe, but you are out of my league". The honesty will be appreciated as you did not waste their time. This one is white, 18 and from a pac-12 university. About a 7 all around.

I have messaged about 10 on SA who are less than half my age! Just one "not interested" reply others are silent. This is making me think if I should just give up on the young ones. Maybe they think a guy old enough to be their father / grandpa must be a pervert.

Also I am in the SouthEast and not white wonder what impact it has on SBs even considering me May be I will try some more until the SA membership expires.

[HollywoodGuy]

Message 1 - send me an email.

REPLY: emails me to say hi and sends her pics (never ask for them if you can avoid it).

Message 2 - three reasons to be an SB.

REPLY: I really am looking for all three. I have always liked older guys and just need help during school too. You seem like a nice guy! What ru up to?

Message 3 - prequalify the donation amount.

REPLY: I'm not greedy. I am looking for more than just money. I think that would be fine. You seem like a sweet guy who just needs a younger girl to be with _.

Message 4 - give the donation amount.

REPLY: Ya that makes sense well I think your handsome and would love to hang out sometime.

If they reply with an outsized donation amount. Go silent or just say "Sorry babe, but you are out of my league". The honesty will be appreciated as you did not waste their time. This one is white, 18 and from a pac-12 university. About a 7 all around.

[HollywoodGuy]

CHANGE THIS:

But if you want to take less to be with a more chill, better looking guy (for my age that is) then we might be able to make it work.

TO THIS:

But if you are willing to take less to be with a more chill, better looking guy (for my age that is) then we might be able to make it work.

[Bastardo]

Reading all the newbie questions on here got me to thinking about a copy and paste easy way to get past the donation discussion, while still getting it on the table. Because I hate endless messages going back and forth. Since I have been on SA I have taken a more casual and less direct approach. I figure if the girls on SD4 M want to swim with the UTR's and pros then they can handle a rougher approach. But the girls on SA seem a bit more refined. So far I am only messaging the 18 year olds until I have thoroughly exhausted the pool. So anyway, here it is. With some slight modifications this could work for anyone. New or experienced. I will include an actual response from a POT I messaged today. She is 18 and about an 8 all around.

Haha. So I check in here, see this post, and immediately use it on a 20 yr old blonde that just favorited me. Worked like a charm LOL.

I haven't posted here in a while, just lurking since I recently re-entered the game. I had a wild year and a half ride with the very first girl I met on SA, damn near left my SO for her. Anyway, someday I'll tell the story.

[HollywoodGuy]

Reading all the newbie questions on here got me to thinking about a copy and paste easy way to get past the donation discussion, while still getting it on the table. Because I hate endless messages going back and forth. Since I have been on SA I have taken a more casual and less direct approach. I figure if the girls on SD4 M want to swim with the UTR's and pros then they can handle a rougher approach. But the girls on SA seem a bit more refined. So far I am only messaging the 18 year olds until I have thoroughly exhausted the pool. So anyway, here it is. With some slight modifications this could work for anyone. New or experienced. I will include an actual response from a POT I messaged today. She is 18 and about an 8 all around.

Message 1 - me initiating contact. But even if they initiate, you could respond with this.
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After reading my profile if you want to know more, then email me at XXX.

Just lmk its you by your profile name.

I do prefer a per meeting arrangement to start. If you could let me know what your expectation$ are that would be great.

HER REPLY: Hey it's XXX, my username is XXX, .
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Message 2 - you've seen it before, but its slightly more refined.

Hi. Every girl on here is looking for 3 things to varying degrees.

1 - financial support.

2 - physical support.

3 - emotional support.

The greater the need for one reason the less attention is paid to the others.

I try to provide a balance between all three reasons as a basis to meet someone. I spend enough money to say I am not trying to get something for nothing. I need real chemistry (as I am a very bad faker). And I have an understanding and giving nature combined with years of experience in taking care of girls and anticipating their needs.

I don't judge what anyone wants and I don't pretend to be able to meet everyones expectations. I use SA as more of a regular dating site but to meet younger girls that want some help with their bills, have sexual needs and fantasies that can be spontaneously explored in a safe and nurturing environment, and with someone that could be a real friend even if its mostly for the financial and physical benefits. But a friend nonetheless.

Whats your motivation?

Number 1, 2 or 3?

HER REPLY: I understand everything you were talking about and couldn't agree more, I think we would have tons of fun.
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Message 3.

I mean is it number 1, 2 or 3. Or all 3?

Are you looking for the highest bidder? Because If you're going for top dollar, that won't be me. That would be some less attractive, needy guy. And you will get offers of 200 to 300 a date (lots of them). And you'll probably need that just to tolerate them.

But if you want to take less to be with a more chill, better looking guy (for my age that is) then we might be able to make it work.

HER REPLY: Oh, well in my opinion I think I'm looking for all 3 .
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Message 4.

Thats normally the type of girl I date. I pay $100 a date. Which won't cover any ones lifestyle. But it does add up. I need to have a real connection with the person I am with. Like real chemistry. Otherwise what's the point?

I understand some girls will just date anyone if they pay enough. And I don't judge. I just know that for $100 the girl has to like me. At $300 I would never know if it was me or the cash. Does that make sense?
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In this case it led to her wanting a M&G. But if there was no reply, then no problem, on to the next one. If this gets one guy laid one time for a $ it was worth posting. But adjust the numbers to your strategy. I am looking for regulars. Some guys are happy to pay more to get better looking girls or get a higher closing rate. A lot of guys dont want regulars or only date randomly so qualifying on price may not be that important. I will still be sending a sexually explicit message to her to fully clarify what is expected to start an arrangement. I am not giving up that bit of txt as it is specific to me. Just create your own and happy hunting.

[LandonR]

I read that you guys pay the SBs by slipping the cash in their purse etc When you do that for the first time after FC do you tell them or give any hint? Otherwise they will be walking out thinking that all they got was a good time.

When I've provided sugar to the ladies I typically wait until we are both getting dressed or she's getting ready to leave and I find her purse and just put money in it and tell her "I left you some gas / spending / shopping / grocery / etc money in your pure".

Doesn't make it as awkward.

[Walruscl]

Depending on their age they may prefer the car. Backseat, front seat on the hood, leaning against the side. Lots of options. Girls love that kinda stuff. Spontaneous. Adventurous. Dangerous. In the UK they call dogging. Very popular.

This. While I think my SB probably doesn't prefer a car, at least partly because it's been clear from day one that I'm more comfortable with more private accommodations, we've had some really wild times when a car date was the only option. One of the more magical things on this adventure-rewinding the clock to relive the youth I never had.