"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[HollywoodGuy]

Why is it so tough to get the ball rolling? I just crunched the numbers for girls in my demographic within 100 miles of me. Of all the girls on SD4M only 30% are in my demographic by age and race (18-28 black or mixed). Out of those, half aren't good looking enough (down to 15%) fully a third of those left are aren't serious. That leaves 10% of the girls left. Out of that 10% more than half of them don't even read my message (down to 5%) and of the ones that do, 50% laugh at my offer or don't respond. That leaves about 1% that are actually DTF NP's for $. And 1% that are UTR for $. Which is ok if they are new enough or low mileage. If they are UTR I usually wont see them unless they are 18-22.

Of that 2% (NP and UTR combined) maybe half of them have the right chemistry to get to, long term SB status (whether they started out as NP's or UTR's I don't care). Sounds discouraging, right? Well some days it is and some days it isn't. The only reason I have any success is that I hit up every single girl the day they sign up. I don't really worry about screening them much to get an intro letter out. Of all the girls that agree to my terms I only M&G maybe half of them. I mostly reject the ones that come back as possible pros, or too far away or both.

And when I find a keeper, I keep her for as long as possible, years. Also, I don't demand intercourse on the first date (but I do on the second). Once I am on the date a combination of game, need and true NP status takes over. I started out like everyone (most everyone) as a green newbie. I never really dated until my fifties. I threw caution to the wind and got burned as fast as possible by as many women as possible to speed up the learning curve, and paying $$$ a date no problem.

The only reason I am so strict with a new girl now ($) is that I like to go out a lot, so its the only way to stay on budget. Any girl that proves herself over time is going to be rewarded beyond that. Some girls are long term players and want all the other perks of having an SD beyond the cash. They are out there, you just can't give up looking.

Another way to look at it is this. In the beginning it took me 30 FC dates to find a keeper (that number would be lower but some girls didn't wanna keep me. LOL) . As I tightened up my selection process its gone to below 10. And this year its gone to 1 out of 5 that I have kept for at least 10 dates. But in the last 7 years I have only averaged 1 new GF level relationship per year. Looking at another number the site says I messaged 950 girls in the last 6 months. So I will guess about 1500 this year so far. This led to 20 M&G's that went nowhere, 24 FC dates of which 5 girls made it to or will get to 10 dates or more. And not one new GF level new girl. If it wasn't for holding on to my long term regulars (years) I would be toast. I did start out the year with a GF, but had to break up with her before being able to replace her (my usual MO). No problem, as I am enjoying the single life for now.

[SlowMo]

Wow guys I think I might have hit a home run on my first time up to bat. Met an incredibly cute 18 year old girl tonight at a local coffee shop. We had emailed each other 4-5 times and she asked me to go get coffee. I got there first but didn't see anyone matching her pics. I got my drink and sat down. As I turned my my drink I saw her. WOW- absolutely stunning. I sat down and she got her drink and came over. We introduced ourselves and just started talking. We talked about everything for over an hour. I finally broached the arrangement. She said she already felt comfortable with me and she was down with it. I offered her my decided upon fee and she took it right away. No haggling back and forth. She said I'm so happy we met!! We have a date set up for this coming weekend. I am stoked! I was incredibly nervous about the meet and greet but it went so well.

Congratulations on the upcoming date! Would you mind sharing what the dollar figure is? I know some guys will tell you that whatever you proposed is too high, but each market has different dynamics. Plus, I feel that if she scratches your itch, almost any amount is worth it compared to someone who doesn't.

And just remember this:

"You choke the chicken before any big date, don't you? Tell me you spank the monkey before any big date. Oh my God, he doesn't flog the dolphin before a big date. Are you crazy? That's like going out there with a loaded gun!

[HollywoodGuy]

If she does follow through it will be well worth it. If not, at least I got her off my list. My gut says its in my favor. Her body was a solid 9 if you like small girls. So my original guess wasnt too far off. She was a 7/9/8/8. If they truly want to compete (meaning earn some money), they have to get real about the game. This girl tonite knows she's hot but she also knows that putting her nose in the air is gonna get her nowhere.

She txted me today trying to upsell me for intercourse on the 2nd date. I passed. Next.

[JZLizard]

Here is one I messaged about 6 months ago. Her profile disappeared and she rejected my offer anyway. Suddenly I see she has a new profile. So I make the same offer again. Radio silence. So as a last ditch attempt I tell her how hot she is. She replied with her phone number. 30 MILF 5'0" 100? Gym fit body. Another 7/9.

That reminds me of a fun story.

Once, I had a civy find that was a recent college grad (just met her on match, no talk of support or anything, but being without any real job prospects or experience and so much younger than me, I felt she was looking for either a potential husband to ease her stressful life or someone who could help her advance her career, or preferably both). Things weren't progressing like I wanted them to, and I figured out why. She had met someone else her age a few weeks before me that she had been seeing and felt like she "loved" him.

So one time we go to a restaurant for munchies, drinks and conversation kind of late (maybe 9 pm). She goes to the restroom and as she's walking back to the table, I get a good look at her head to toe and realize what an impressive looking woman she is, so right as she reaches the table, I said "damn, you are hot". She pushes her chair back in, comes and sits on my lap and starts deep French kissing me right there in the restaurant without saying a word. It wasn't quite as awkward as it sounds because it being late, the restaurant had dimmed the lights a little bit and turned up the music for a little bit of a lounge atmosphere, but still people were looking at our table wondering what had just taken place. It probably looked like I had either just proposed or slipped a horny pill in her drink.

Now the flip side of that -- I've seen some women say "I wish for once a guy would tell me I'm beautiful instead of telling me I'm hot". So, when dealing with women there's never a sure thing. But I'd say in general telling them they're hot probably never hurts.

And, oddly enough no I didn't get laid that night after the restaurant. She had to be at an interview the next morning (she said. Possibly meeting the other guy). But I did fuck her a couple of weeks later and it was worth waiting for (and free of charge).

[HollywoodGuy]

Here is one I messaged about 6 months ago. Her profile disappeared and she rejected my offer anyway. Suddenly I see she has a new profile. So I make the same offer again. Radio silence. So as a last ditch attempt I tell her how hot she is. She replied 10 days later with her phone number. 30 MILF 5'0" 100? Gym fit body. Another 7/9.

[FredMoore]

In general, how long does it take experienced SDs to get from first contact to a meet and greet, and from there to an FC?

Also, general ratio of flakes to serious girls others see. For every woman I've talked to that seems serious and not playing games, I've talked with 9 that: just stop talking; or make a date then cancel; or who insist on getting paid $$ or more just to show up and get treated to dinner at an initial M&G; or are shocked, shocked that an SD wants to have sex with them, they just wanted a platonic relationship.

.

There are several factors such as YMMV, the market you're in, and the type of SBs who you are attracted to.

If you "got game" then the girls are going to fall for you. This can be good looks, great personality, or that "power" feel about you. The biggest thing IMHO is confidence. You know what you want, are not tentative, and make it easy for them to say yes.

A market that is overly competitive is difficult and the girls can be choosy. If there are lots of flakes, and we all encounter them, you'll get a run of failures. If the Pro ratio is high you will have success. They are all about the money. And speaking of money. They all have a price. You might be too low. Hollywood brings up a good point. If you select the hotties (9 to 10) they are pickier since they get more attention.

I do much better with 7 to 8's. And if you can date in public you will have an easier time of it. When I lived in an apartment I could always take them out to dinner then ask them back for a drink. 2 of them said no sex and I did not pressure them, but as the night wore on they became comfortable and went for it.

[HollywoodGuy]

It could be the same day or a few weeks. Today a beautiful girl messaged me back from Sept. 7th. This one pictured would have been a same day but I was too busy. Now its been like 3 days. Seeing her tonite. 23 5,6" maybe 110+ 7/9/8/? So far. Just an FYI. I always choose a girl with a hot body over a beauty queen face. Reverse that and you are more likely to encounter a GPS girl. So a 7/9 is gonna get my attention way faster than a 9/7. Its looking at their body that keeps me going in bed.

Well I went to see the tatted girl in the pic and she turned out to be a chill UTR girl. Recently transplanted to my fair city as so many of them are. She looked just like her pic below. Super tight and tattooed from head to toe with at least a dozen piercings. We wasted about 5 minutes talking in the car in her driveway. She had me lower my pants and we had a decent make out and HJ session. She was trying to rush me up but when she realized that wasnt gonna work she backed down her speed a bit. I am sure she would be great in bed and she said she liked it rough. Which I believe as I pulled on her nips a lot harder than most girls could take (it was closing in on a punishment level pain scale). I was a little surprised she didn't go for the BJ, but oh well. I sucked on her perfect pierced nips which seem to give rise to some real passion. She said she would come over to the FC for a second date. But until it happens who knows. I told her it would still be the same $ for fucking in the FC as it was for the car date and she said she was cool with that.

If she does follow through it will be well worth it. If not, at least I got her off my list. My gut says its in my favor. Her body was a solid 9 if you like small girls. So my original guess wasnt too far off. She was a 7/9/8/8. One big advantage to living here is that all the prom queens, captains of the cheerleading team, and girls that would be 9,s or 10's in their little or not so little town, all move to L.A. thinking they are gonna be models, singers, dancers or actresses. When they get here they realize very quickly they are a solid 8 but far from star quality. And then the competition begins. If they truly want to compete (meaning earn some money), they have to get real about the game. This girl tonite knows she's hot but she also knows that putting her nose in the air is gonna get her nowhere.

[BeardedMan67]

Wow guys I think I might have hit a home run on my first time up to bat. Met an incredibly cute 18 year old girl tonight at a local coffee shop. We had emailed each other 4-5 times and she asked me to go get coffee. I got there first but didn't see anyone matching her pics. I got my drink and sat down. As I turned my my drink I saw her. WOW- absolutely stunning. I sat down and she got her drink and came over. We introduced ourselves and just started talking. We talked about everything for over an hour. I finally broached the arrangement. She said she already felt comfortable with me and she was down with it. I offered her my decided upon fee and she took it right away. No haggling back and forth. She said I'm so happy we met!! We have a date set up for this coming weekend. I am stoked! I was incredibly nervous about the meet and greet but it went so well.

[VaSD1]

I often go to the Dominican Republic and have noticed they have roadside hotels with garages attached to them. You take your date and drive into a garage and close the door. There is an attached room with a bed and small dining area with a couch and a bathroom. After a few minutes there is a knock on the door and an employee comes and takes your cash and then you can go at it. Often they are rented in hour blocks instead of overnight. Affairs are very common place in the Dominican and this just works for their culture. Would love to have something like this in the states. Private and affordable.

The roadside hotels also exist in Costa Rica. And if you don't want to rent a car cabs will do the driving for you.

[VaSD1]

Most of the Pots on SA are not good at communicating. Many of them, especially if they are under 30, do not reply immediately or even go on every day. Remember, they can reply to you without being a premium member once you have contacted them. What I have done is set up a separate e-mail address that I use for SA. After the second or third message on SA I tell them to respond to that going forward. If you are talking to them on a regular e-mail address they seem to respond quicker.

I NEVER give them any sugar for a m&g. I will pay for whatever we are doing, but not for their time. I make it clear that I will not be making any donations to them until we get to the FC. If they balk, I say NEXT! Don't be too concerned about how smart they are. You're looking to fuck them, not discuss and fix the problems of the world. Sometimes the dumber they are the better off we are.

I'm with FyrGiy33 on the separate email and agree that many are not good at communicating. Where my approach differs is I don't mind giving them some token sugar for a M&G, especially for single moms that may have baby sitter expenses. And perhaps I'm not just looking to bang them (admittedly most of it) but also hoping for a connection of some sort. YMMV.

[FyrGuy33]

In general, how long does it take experienced SDs to get from first contact to a meet and greet, and from there to an FC?

I've been actively working the SA site for 5-6 weeks now. Most of the women I'm dealing with take forever to respond to messages. Work colleagues, friends, family, hell, even escorts tend to respond back to me in an hour or two usually, almost never more than 24 hours later.

On SA, I write somebody, don't hear back, write them off, then a week or two later they pop up and respond. Even once a "conversation" starts it's often a 2-4 day lag between messages. Is this normal, or I am doing something wrong or otherwise off-putting?

Also, general ratio of flakes to serious girls others see. For every woman I've talked to that seems serious and not playing games, I've talked with 9 that: just stop talking; or make a date then cancel; or who insist on getting paid $$ or more just to show up and get treated to dinner at an initial M&G; or are shocked, shocked that an SD wants to have sex with them, they just wanted a platonic relationship.

I don't expect to be Hollywoodguy right out of the gate, but I read the reports and feel like I am just spinning my wheels. I'm almost ready to go back to the escort game, except that the number of escorts who are local, hot, under 30, and not dumber than a box of rocks is pretty thin where I live. Even thinner if you are not a member of a particular web site that I don't desire to be a part of.

Most of the Pots on SA are not good at communicating. Many of them, especially if they are under 30, do not reply immediately or even go on every day. Remember, they can reply to you without being a premium member once you have contacted them. What I have done is set up a separate e-mail address that I use for SA. After the second or third message on SA I tell them to respond to that going forward. If you are talking to them on a regular e-mail address they seem to respond quicker.

I NEVER give them any sugar for a m&g. I will pay for whatever we are doing, but not for their time. I make it clear that I will not be making any donations to them until we get to the FC. If they balk, I say NEXT! Don't be too concerned about how smart they are. You're looking to fuck them, not discuss and fix the problems of the world. Sometimes the dumber they are the better off we are.

[HollywoodGuy]

In general, how long does it take experienced SDs to get from first contact to a meet and greet, and from there to an FC?

It could be the same day or a few weeks. Today a beautiful girl messaged me back from Sept. 7th. This one pictured would have been a same day but I was too busy. Now its been like 3 days. Seeing her tonite. 23 5,6" maybe 110+ 7/9/8/? So far. Just an FYI. I always choose a girl with a hot body over a beauty queen face. Reverse that and you are more likely to encounter a GPS girl. So a 7/9 is gonna get my attention way faster than a 9/7. Its looking at their body that keeps me going in bed.

[VaSD1]

In general, how long does it take experienced SDs to get from first contact to a meet and greet, and from there to an FC?

I've been actively working the SA site for 5-6 weeks now. Most of the women I'm dealing with take forever to respond to messages. Work colleagues, friends, family, hell, even escorts tend to respond back to me in an hour or two usually, almost never more than 24 hours later.

On SA, I write somebody, don't hear back, write them off, then a week or two later they pop up and respond. Even once a "conversation" starts it's often a 2-4 day lag between messages. Is this normal, or I am doing something wrong or otherwise off-putting?

Also, general ratio of flakes to serious girls others see. For every woman I've talked to that seems serious and not playing games, I've talked with 9 that: just stop talking; or make a date then cancel; or who insist on getting paid $$ or more just to show up and get treated to dinner at an initial M&G; or are shocked, shocked that an SD wants to have sex with them, they just wanted a platonic relationship.

I don't expect to be Hollywoodguy right out of the gate, but I read the reports and feel like I am just spinning my wheels. I'm almost ready to go back to the escort game, except that the number of escorts who are local, hot, under 30, and not dumber than a box of rocks is pretty thin where I live. Even thinner if you are not a member of a particular web site that I don't desire to be a part of.

I started sugaring on SA just three months ago. My first meet & greet resulted in the next meeting being in the FC. The second one was a M&G, then a lunch, then the FC (several more sessions followed with one). My third was a M&G over a coffee followed by a nice dinner and the FC. I'm based in the Hampton Roads area and that's where I met these three. I travel to Richmond and northern VA for my business and I have had two Richmond SA contacts that went right to the FC after meeting me for drinks at the hotel and another from Fairfax that did the same. Perhaps knowing you are from out of town and not knowing when you will be back accelerated the schedule. Also had one 19 yo coed in Richmond that didn't go to the FC yet but will next week for our second meeting.

Back in HR I had my first teen (I'm 60 BTW) go straight from email and text to meeting me in a room. I've also met a few over M&Gs that didn't pan out at all (but I'm only out a coffee, if slightly pricey ones at that). Tomorrow night I will be spending with a 23 yo MILF nurse at a hotel in Chesapeake after a M&G last week over drinks.

I too have experienced the lag in communications. Quick responses for a while, then radio silence or sporadic. Some of them are obviously flaky but I think some of them just get bombarded by contacts and become sort of overwhelmed or my own profile starts to diminish in value compared the younger, richer, and / or more handsome SDs. For me, I've accepted it to be somewhat of a numbers games and I know that many I'm am interested in won't pan out but if I work enough of them there is more than enough sugar to go around. And thanks to the sage advice on this board I quit concentrating on the 30-40 yo's and starting going for the younger talent with more than surprising success.

[Minnanon]

In general, how long does it take experienced SDs to get from first contact to a meet and greet, and from there to an FC?

I've been actively working the SA site for 5-6 weeks now. Most of the women I'm dealing with take forever to respond to messages. Work colleagues, friends, family, hell, even escorts tend to respond back to me in an hour or two usually, almost never more than 24 hours later.

On SA, I write somebody, don't hear back, write them off, then a week or two later they pop up and respond. Even once a "conversation" starts it's often a 2-4 day lag between messages. Is this normal, or I am doing something wrong or otherwise off-putting?

Also, general ratio of flakes to serious girls others see. For every woman I've talked to that seems serious and not playing games, I've talked with 9 that: just stop talking; or make a date then cancel; or who insist on getting paid $$ or more just to show up and get treated to dinner at an initial M&G; or are shocked, shocked that an SD wants to have sex with them, they just wanted a platonic relationship.

I don't expect to be Hollywoodguy right out of the gate, but I read the reports and feel like I am just spinning my wheels. I'm almost ready to go back to the escort game, except that the number of escorts who are local, hot, under 30, and not dumber than a box of rocks is pretty thin where I live. Even thinner if you are not a member of a particular web site that I don't desire to be a part of.

[HollywoodGuy]

I saw a profile on SA who is dancer at one of the club. She is asking to come and see her there. Is this the way to get more client to club or just to see her, spend money. And she makes money by giving lap dances to pot SDs.

Anyone in Richmond have seen this SB?

It can be hit or miss, but I would check her out. Tell her you don't really do the strip club thing. But if she refuses to see you outside the club then go. Don't check out the other girls. Just see her, get a couple dances and leave. (if she pushes for a VIP dance then you know she was just playin you). But if she doesn't, then before you leave ask if you can pick her up from work sometime (and wait in the parking lot). I personally have never entered a strip club of a girl I was dating. But I know lots of them hope to convert guys they meet there into SD's.

Or just say you will meet her in the parking lot when she gets off. (which is best, especially if she doesn't drive)