"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[LandonR]

Yesterday I said good bye to a 23 yr old Coed who spent two lunches and a night with me over the last couple weeks. I was beginning to grow weary of her constantly texting me with the latest financial problems she was having on what seemed like an hour by hour basis. She would never come out and ask for me to pay for a particular bill, Doctor's appt, or tattoo, but I assumed this was her ultimate goal by keeping me so informed. Yesterday she had another idea.

At lunch she told me that she needed to have a more structured allowance than what I had provided to that point. I had given her cash and a couple gift cards during our visits. She then proceeded to hand me a list of her monthly expenses along with a space at the end of the page with the statement: I _ promise to Pay R_A $1800.00 per month in return for companionship and time spent together".

While sort of new to the the Sugar Bowl, I have not read about nor heard anything like this sort of arrangement before. A monthly allowance yes, but not an actual agreement in writing. I assume this is rare? I knew the moment I read the statement that we were finished. Not wanting to cause a scene I told her I would need to think about it and get back to her later. A few hours later I sent a text thanking her for the opportunity to have an arrangement with her but I had to reluctantly pass. I expected some kind of response but, as of writing this note, I have not heard from her. Has anyone else had a SB request some kind of formal written agreement? For me her action threw up a Red Flag so big I could use it as a comforter on my Bed.

That's one I've never heard before! I would have a hard time trying to contain my laughter as I read that. I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that "contract" wouldn't hold an ounce of weight in court.

[Rouleur]

Yesterday I said good bye to a 23 yr old Coed who spent two lunches and a night with me over the last couple weeks. I was beginning to grow weary of her constantly texting me with the latest financial problems she was having on what seemed like an hour by hour basis. She would never come out and ask for me to pay for a particular bill, Doctor's appt, or tattoo, but I assumed this was her ultimate goal by keeping me so informed. Yesterday she had another idea.

At lunch she told me that she needed to have a more structured allowance than what I had provided to that point. I had given her cash and a couple gift cards during our visits. She then proceeded to hand me a list of her monthly expenses along with a space at the end of the page with the statement: I _ promise to Pay R_A $1800.00 per month in return for companionship and time spent together".

While sort of new to the the Sugar Bowl, I have not read about nor heard anything like this sort of arrangement before. A monthly allowance yes, but not an actual agreement in writing. I assume this is rare? I knew the moment I read the statement that we were finished. Not wanting to cause a scene I told her I would need to think about it and get back to her later. A few hours later I sent a text thanking her for the opportunity to have an arrangement with her but I had to reluctantly pass. I expected some kind of response but, as of writing this note, I have not heard from her. Has anyone else had a SB request some kind of formal written agreement? For me her action threw up a Red Flag so big I could use it as a comforter on my Bed.

[HappyHunter44]

I'm addicted to sugar brothers. It's got me by the balls. Is there any hope?

LOL!! Remember, commas go a long way.

You got me for about 2 seconds. I was like WTF? I saw the thing about "sugar brothers," before I read the post. Then say the balls comment. And I thought, what in the world happened to DD. He is now into sugar brothers? What are those? Wow, did the sugar babies mess him up or what.

After about two seconds, I realized you meant, "I'm addicted to sugar, brothers. ".

Thanks for the laugh of the day. It was good.

[DirtyDeeds38]

The newest addition to the A team is my jamaican princess. We just had our 6th date last nite and it was the best one yet. This is a slow moving train as she claims to have a BF. I can tell he is a bit of a dick as she is so enamored of my compliments and appreciation of a job well done. She has great skills (and follows directions perfectly) and a killer body. Sometimes being patient can pay off. Only time will tell if this can be a lasting arrangement or not.

This is an aspect I'm really noticing as well and one that pays huge dividends. We all discussed here how most of these girls likely have deep seeded issues. One of them being from having asshole boyfriends, one after another. It has amazed me how far showing them even just a wee bit of affection and giving a random compliment goes with SOME of these girls. Later, when they open up, they reveal how horribly they have been treated by their BF's Ex's and such. And many of them expect this treatment from all men and when you are genuine, it kind of blows them away.

Now we must avoid allowing them to step on us, of course. It's a balance, maintaining control, letting them know you're in charge, but not going to treat them like dirt at the same time.

One thing I learned a long time ago, is to shower a woman with niceness early on, this creates comfort for her. When she is comfortable with you, pull the niceness back and be a little standoffish for a while, Women instinctually are attracted to a challenge and will work to earn back your niceness you once showed them. It's in their nature. Use this to your advantage. And yes, I have read books on these subjects. LOL.

[JZLizard]

My MILF who I love and appreciate is on SD4 M everyday. I asked her about it and she says it's just for entertainment purposes only. LOL. But I see she is in the "hot locals" tab sometimes. The only way you can get there is to have a lot of guys clicking on your profile. Her pics would never get her to that status. So the only way would be if she was clicking on many guys profiles and then they clicked back to check her out. I don't really care as our sex is A #1 every time. I just think its funny that she feels the need to deny the fact that she is looking.

LOL. The key to avoiding a woman's lies is to simply never ask her anything.

I actually respect women more when they don't glorify their position on things.

Case A -- A stripper in an all nude strip club was giving me a spit-in-the-hand tuggy (the most I could talk her into) back in the couch room while one of my hands was knuckles deep in her. She was kind of paranoid throughout and I said "is a HJ really rare back here" and she said "well I've done it before but management gets stricter every day". Respect for admitting having done it before.

Case be -- A foreign college student and daughter of a prominent multi-millionaire (owner of a well known international company) I met on a civvy dating site always maintained that she met me there "by accident", that she was really "doing research" for school when she joined the site. Used to promise me if I married her we would be well set up for life. Never could get her to budge from her "school research" bullshit, she wouldn't let go of it.

I can't respect that, I respect the stripper more than the rich ***** for the honesty reason alone.

[HollywoodGuy]

Had a second overnight date with my SDT SB last night. She definitely put more effort into the areas that I had expressed disappointment with in our first date. At this point, she is my only SB and she said that she's not seeing any other guys, but sometimes it's hard to tell with these girls, no matter how genuine they seem. She's a very sweet girl, almost shy, and very easy to talk to. She definitely has "girl next door" written all over her. Not sure if this is a regular thing or what. I'm still looking around on SA until my membership lapses once again at the end of the month.

My MILF who I love and appreciate is on SD4 M everyday. I asked her about it and she says it's just for entertainment purposes only. LOL. But I see she is in the "hot locals" tab sometimes. The only way you can get there is to have a lot of guys clicking on your profile. Her pics would never get her to that status. So the only way would be if she was clicking on many guys profiles and then they clicked back to check her out. I don't really care as our sex is A #1 every time. I just think its funny that she feels the need to deny the fact that she is looking. I have been seeing her for almost 3 years now.

So here it is. After being with my ATF for 15 months I chipped in to get her a new (used) car. My share is $1500. I will prorate that out over at least 6 months into her allowance. In january I paid $1500 for dental work and did the same thing. The last payment is next month. As she was good about sticking to the repayment schedule I am doing it again. Is it a risk? Of course, but she is my GF so I really have no choice if I want to keep the ball rolling.

The newest addition to the A team is my jamaican princess. We just had our 6th date last nite and it was the best one yet. This is a slow moving train as she claims to have a BF. I can tell he is a bit of a dick as she is so enamored of my compliments and appreciation of a job well done. She has great skills (and follows directions perfectly) and a killer body. Sometimes being patient can pay off. Only time will tell if this can be a lasting arrangement or not.

[DirtyDeeds38]

So as I've let go most of my old SB's for various reasons,(or so I hope) I planned to take a break. About late morning, my little head got the better of me and I found myself on my sugar site sending out about 12 emails. I got 4 responses. A few making it very clear sex was not immediately on the table, tossed those. A new girl about 5 hours away caught my attention. She was 23, married, one daughter. We went to texting and she agreed to meet the same night and come to me. Wow!

Making a long story short, she arrived and was a 5'2" 110 pound spinner with a solid, toned, muscular fit type body. Face a solid 7. 5, body on the spinner scale, an easy 9. Nice round bubble butt to boot. I wanted her immediately, but the small talk had to ensue. We agreed on $ if there was no chemistry and $ $ $ if she was able to be intimate. Now for any of us mongers who've been around, we can usually sense the girls who are bi. I sensed that in this girl and some uneasiness overall with men. She was shy, would not look directly in my eyes for very long and just had an ever so slight presence of possibly being into girls about her. So I asked, kind of caught her off guard with the question and she said she was Bi. Could be interesting down the road, that's for sure.

We talked for over 4 hours and she would not indicate either way, no signals she was open for sex. So again, I just asked. She responded with, "I feel quite comfortable with you. " but no yes, or no answer. I'm growing frustrated, so I sit next to her and start kissing, she finally responds. But she is skittish, and the type who allowed me to works towards her, no return touching etc.

I lay her back on the bed, pulling clothes off and her body was even better then I thought. Seriously fit, curves just right for a petite girl and a stunning shaved pussy with huge lips just screaming at me. I went straight in for DATY and she lit of like the last firecracker on the 4th of July. I stayed down there a good 45 minutes producing 3-4 big O's for her. During the last, I slid in one finger and her pussy gripped my finger like she was ready to fall off a cliff and it was the last thing saving her. She was tight, very slowly while still working her now huge swollen clit, worked in a second and let her provide the rhythm while I licked madly at her clit. And that's when she came out of her little shy box. She start cumming and screaming, thrashing, arching her back and had one last massive O. This one she pushed me back off her and it continued for several minutes. She was glazed over as if in trance and moving her body as her orgasmic waves ran through her. I mounted myself above her and rubbed on her until she asked me to fuck her. I did not last long brothers, three minute man with this one. Wet as wet could be, yet as tight as I've had.

I'm addicted to sugar brothers. It's got me by the balls. Is there any hope?

[FredMoore]

I have a Duo off SA who contacted me yesterday. She is based in Norfolk, Va but travels from NJ to see her girlfriend. For guys who can travel somewhere near there (they will travel a little ways) contact me for her info. They want $300 each plus a room to play in. It is too rich for my blood. Their private photos look good. The lead girl is Asian spinner 22 yr old and her GF is a super hot young White girl. I would do either one of them separately or in combo.

[FredMoore]

JG, very nice thoughts and I think your approach is a sensible one to build a "real" SB. On the other hand it takes a LOT of effort, much more than showing up with cash and fucking your brains out. I have a Nando 1 right now who is the poster child of the scenario that you just described. At best she is a BC and is milking me with one disaster after the other. It is Tat and no Tit for me. I will pull the plug if she doesn't show up for her banging today.

So making the effort is very time consuming and requires forethought ,lots of cash flow ,even small amts , to put on a card or order things off the web . This is easier if you are single or real independent from your SO . It is fun and pays off with the right person, but money trumps all . Unless you are young enough to be attractive to the SB in your own right most babies are going to want their envelope . Monthly allowances only work at a higher level of Sugaring with educated girls . I do not have the time or energy to do all that shopping and thinking about what she wants and needs . I can't even get massage oil and candles on a regular basis .

[John G Smith]

I'm in a writing mood tonight.

But I started thinking did us guys shoot ourselves in the foot when we started offering allowances per date? Because often times a date equals sex, so we've started to condition new Non-Pros and SBs to get payment for every sexual encounter.

Now this came as an evolution from an allowance per month. The problem with allowance per month is that new inexperienced SDs were being taken advantage of by young tight teasing SBs. SBs might say they needed to "get to know you better" before engaging in sex or the meetups would be inconsistent even though you already paid in advance for the month. So basically for the whole month the SD was trying to catch his money's worth, often failing.

In comparison, allowance per visit is much lower risk. You're outlaying a smaller amount and the chances of getting sugar for sugar is much higher. And if the girl is a dud it's easier to drop her or phase her out. A lot of girls like it too because it's easier to find a Pay per Visit SD compared to a monthly allowance one. And they can see multiple SDs in a month, instead of being at the beck and call of one SD for an entire month.

The downside is that we're breeding a bunch of booty call and UTR girls. They obviously have their place, but I think everyone can agree it's getting harder to find real SBs who understand they need to be a pleaser and spoil their SD in order for them to get sugar. Too many of them have GPS and want to get paid just for showing up at M&G with vapid / non-existent conversation. They've gotten the "Pay me First" mentality. Perhaps those type of girls would have never made good SBs, but I think they're have been entry level Non-Pros who could have been real SBs, but the Pay per Date steered them toward UTR / GPS.

To attempt to answer my own question, I think Allowance per Visit has made SD / SB arrangements more accessible to more guys, especially those coming from the mongering world of escorts and AMPs (which is just about all of us, LOL). We can try out more girls at a reduced risk. And if things don't work out with a particular girl, at least we got a one night stand out of it. I think it's created an excellent Booty Call market. SDFM should probably change its name to Booty Call For Me. But I also think the side-effect is that establishing real SD / SB relationships is becoming harder in the current climate where everyone wants instant compensation / gratification. And with many girls nowadays even if you try to switch to a monthly allowance, their performance will deteriorate after the 1st of the month because they already got their money. Or worse they'll treat it as one mega-booty call pay day and use the rest of the month to see other SDs on pay per visit basis. That's the type of SBs we're breeding.

The key is still to get them fresh and hopefully mold them into a proper SB before they get polluted. But of course, those are hard to find.

[John G Smith]

Congrats on getting the sugar aspect all set up. Seems like work to work in the gifts, but kudos for getting it to work.

I wanted to ask, do you keep track of how much you're spending on cash and gifts and try to keep it to a certain amount?

Early on when I was mostly doing cash and gift cards, I tried to keep it roughly to a certain amount. But as we talked more and I knew more of interests and needs, I was able to pick out gifts that she liked that didn't necessarily cost me a lot of money. For example, in our conversations she mentioned she wanted a case for her tablet that was pretty hard to find. I found and bought the case for only $40, but it might as well have been worth $200 because she wasn't expecting it and was extremely happy that I found it. I added a $50 gift card on top if it and still came way under my budget for the week. So gifts require a little more leg-work but you either get more savings or the SB just may be way more appreciative in the end.

Another thing I like about physical gifts is that I'm implanting constant reminders of me in her daily life. Every time she admires her tablet case, she will think of me. When she's able to get free coffee with the gift card I gave her, she will think of me. When she uses her year-long Netflix / Hulu subscriptions, she will think of me. When she puts on the sexy under-garments I bought her, even if she's with her boyfriend, she'll be thinking of me, haha. And etc. With the physical gifts, there's a lot of steady residual reminders of the positive elements she gets of our SD / SB relationship. If I just gave her cold hard cash everytime, she would just blow it in a couple of days and probably give zero thought to me, except to get more cash. Also I would be more vulnerable to getting outbid by another SD who simply offers up more cash. The gifts (which again are often based off our conversations) provide intangibles that aren't easily replicated. And it allows her to feel more comfortable sleeping with me "for free" on certain occasions because she knows the relationship overall gives her on-going value and she wants to keep me happy.

So for real SBs (not booty calls), I recommend trying to go this route. Start with a cash and gift card combo. Do this the first time you successfully hit the FC and never mention giving her a fixed amount per visit. Just give it to her and hopefully she's happy with it. And if she's happy with it then adjust the amounts of both (cash & gift cards) but keep the overall value roughly the same. You're training her to never expect the exact same cash amount, but that you're still being generous with some surprises. If things are still going well, then give her a Green Dot card or equivalent. At this point, stop handing her cash. Only give her money through the green dot either before or after the FC visit. Also mix it up, occasionally send her $40-50 for random things. Initially you might spend a little more than you normally do but gradually detaching cold cash from the FC and muddling the allowance / FC scorecard will benefit you in the long run if you do it right. It might be that you sent her $50-75 twice over a week or two, so you're not obligated to give her money the day of your FC date but you could still slip her a gift card or small gift to make her happy. Other times, you could splurge more on gifts or give her extra for a particular expense or event. The key thing is to keep things organic, fluid, and surprise her. If she starts to flake for a bit, then just subtly turn down the facet until things return to normal. Personally I think it makes for a better SD / SB relationship and it gives you flexibility with your budget. It may not always be cheaper, but you have flexibility and you can space your costs out. And it may not happen often but Nirvana is when she willingly sleeps with you without direct compensation on a particular date. It means you've successfully extracted all the escort / GPS viruses out of her and converted her into a real sugar baby.

I'm happy to share these secrets because I think this approach can help reverse the tide of the GPSs if it catches on and gets SBs behaving more like old-school mistresses and not escorts. With an escort, you're explicitly paying for sex. With a sugar baby, you give her money / gifts or treat her to nice things when she makes you happy. (Of course, sex makes most of us happy.).

A couple of caveats though. I've done this with 3 SBs so far, it worked great with 2 of them. However if you have a Nando1 SB. A SB who is constantly hitting you up for money or is always in major financial trouble or involved in drama, then this probably won't work. The Green Dot card will backfire and she'll be asking you for money all the time without her feeling the need to have sex with you. So this only really works for relatively stable SBs who have a job or maybe live at home. Girls who work or go to school, but just don't have enough time to spoil themselves (or have a boyfriend is incapable of it) or just need some extra spending money. With those type of girls, the organic approach can work.

[Dolato]

I'm ecstatic because I got this relationship exactly where I want it and we're clicking very well.

Congrats on getting the sugar aspect all set up. Seems like work to work in the gifts, but kudos for getting it to work.

I wanted to ask, do you keep track of how much you're spending on cash and gifts and try to keep it to a certain amount?

[John G Smith]

Well I'm feeling on cloud 9 right now.

A couple of days ago, my CL Teacher SB and I were figuring out our schedules and what days to meet. She said she had Wednesday and Thursday free. I told her I had Wednesday completely free, but her gift that I got her wouldn't arrive until Thursday, which I had a tight schedule that day. So she suggested we meet both days! So the first day we relaxed and had a great sex romp, and I didn't pay a single penny and she was completely fine with it since she knew she was getting something the next day. The second day we metup briefly and I give her the gifts which she absolutely loved, then we proceeded to have another great sex romp. It was great having her offer to have sex without anything tied to it and then more sex after she got the gift the next day.

I'm ecstatic because I got this relationship exactly where I want it and we're clicking very well. She never asks me for money, but she's very appreciative when I do give her money and gifts. The money / gifts don't even have to be tied to specific visits. We can have sex without a money / gift exchange on a given night. But in return I sometimes send her money without direct sex involved. She has a boyfriend, so I don't have to worry about things getting too intense emotionally. At least for now, things are in great balance. She can be a little flaky sometimes, but she has gotten much better with communicating with me on schedule changes. And the few times she does flake, it helps my budget a bit. So we're in a good spot right now and it's pretty much the near perfect SB relationship I'm looking for.

My little blonde Personal Assistant is on vacation so it was great timing to have sex back-to-back with my CL Teacher SB.

[John G Smith]

Everyone here has been spot on with their advice.

Unless you've reached the escape velocity where your relationship has become capable of being more than a typical SD / SB arrangement, then she will most certainly feel devalued or disrespected with lowering the allowance. Every time I've lowered the allowance noticeably, usually things ended shortly after or the sexual performance degraded significantly. In fact, that's how I usually end things by having her "break-up" with me by lowering the allowance or claim financial troubles.

As already been pointed out, if you're trying to keep a SB, you're better off just reducing the frequency instead of lowering the allowance. You can either do it silently by having a "schedule conflict" when you normally meet. Or you can do it directly and tell her you're having a little bit of a financial bump in the road. Sometimes she may offer to see you for less allowance, but you should let her bring it up, not you.

One thing that hasn't been discussed yet, if you can, try to avoid set allowance amounts in the first place. If it's not set in stone that you give her $200 every visit, then it's easier to give differing amounts (within reason) without her feeling something is wrong. What I do is try to have a mix of cash and gifts. With my CL Teacher SB I gave her a GreenDot card, so I can randomly send her money. Sometimes out of the blue I'll just send her $50 for dinner or whatever. I also get her gifts that look valuable but I got good deals on. All of this muddles the exact allowance I give her and everything isn't tied to $ per visit. It's more organic, where I do nice things for her and she does nice things for me over the course of the month. Obviously it takes the right kind of girl, but this can work with Long-Term SBs and you can quietly make budget adjustments without her even feeling it.

[Dandy Don]

[deleted by admin]
editor's note: this report was edited to remove references to **** persons.

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted, and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. thanks!