"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[JZLizard]

I played the game over the weekend. The girl was here for 3 days and 2 nites. And nothing. LOL. Total civi date. Cost .5 for the weekend. But my time is worth a lot more. But theirs obviously is not. But we do have fun.

See while I might have whipped out the shopping tactic, I wouldn't have done the platonic sleep over thing like you did even if I lived by myself.

One time many years ago when I was in my 20's, I was driving down an oceanfront area that frequently had nice looking girls walking up and down the sidewalk. I saw a nice looking, slim girl walking by herself, odd at that time of night and definitely didn't look like a SW to me (and that particular area was not known for pros anyway). I pulled up beside her and said she looked like she could use a ride, she just kind of nervously looked at me and kept walking, so I gently talked to her for a moment, assured her I was not a bad guy (and I look clean cut, had a nice car, etc) so she eventually accepted the ride and got in. Except once inside she told me the story, boyfriend just threw her out of his apt literally, and she had no idea where to go except to go somewhere she could phone her family (this was before most young people had mobile phones). I rode around with her for awhile, played the gentleman and good listener. We had talked about the fact we were attracted to each other, so after a while I suggested that I could get a hotel so she could at least get a good nights rest, relax a little bit and get her thoughts together and so forth. She really liked this idea. Just to be sure we were on the same page, I made sure she knew there were sexual expectations along with my generosity and what would happen that night in the room, and I got answers to the effect that this was not what she had in mind. So, I just took her closer to her original destination, dropped her off, and wished her luck. I wasn't willing to give her a place to sleep out of the goodness of my heart, and I would do the same thing today.

One thing though, if she happened to be at your place on the day after her period was over or whenever her sex drive peaks, you never know what she might do. I take it you tried giving her a few drinks and throwing on some porn.

[HollywoodGuy]

I don't like games either, really, one of the reasons I stay with my current GF is the lack of games.

But, I like to have a few cards up my sleeve, comes in handy when you find one that is a little too well versed in the meaning of "take" but has not yet learned the meaning of "give". I consider a little psychological warfare fair-game, as long as I'm helping them further their education (in this case education on how interpersonal relationships work).

Like in the example I gave, I could have either cut bait and been out about $.5 in drinks and dinner date expenditures, or gamed a little, spent another 50 and had a killer all-nighter with no limits, so I opted for the all-nighter.

I played the game over the weekend. The girl was here for 3 days and 2 nites. And nothing. LOL. Total civi date. Cost .5 for the weekend. My time is worth a lot more. But theirs obviously is not. We do have fun around here either way. I really had a few good laughs watching the don jon movie. Even that guy was bitching about the quality of the sex he was getting. Admittedly the looks quality was high. But we are all spoiled brats on this thread.

[JZLizard]

I agree with you 100%... I guess I am just less of a game player. No offense. But I really try to stay on point. My pleasure, her reward. In the past I actually made that a topic of conversation right off the bat. Not anymore.

I don't like games either, really, one of the reasons I stay with my current GF is the lack of games.

But, I like to have a few cards up my sleeve, comes in handy when you find one that is a little too well versed in the meaning of "take" but has not yet learned the meaning of "give". I consider a little psychological warfare fair-game, as long as I'm helping them further their education (in this case education on how interpersonal relationships work).

Like in the example I gave, I could have either cut bait and been out about $.5 in drinks and dinner date expenditures, or gamed a little, spent another 50 and had a killer all-nighter with no limits, so I opted for the all-nighter.

[HollywoodGuy]

You ever been with a hot young thing in the changing room at a Victoria Secret? I can just say it is incredible mental foreplay for both of you.

They don't allow that in L.A... Lord knows I tried. But I was kicked out of a regular store after getting busted for playing around in the dressing room. Plus all major stores have hidden cameras in the changing rooms to help prevent theft.

[HollywoodGuy]

I could write a book on the subject of shopping and what it means to women (which of course translates into SD tactics). You're absolutely right that you never want to actually take them shopping, but just understanding that it taps into something at the core of femininity and leveraging that to your advantage can pay off big time.

A large number of them fantasize about a man taking them shopping. Partially because of the idea of an unlimited spending spree they have in their mind, but also because of the psychological aspect. They know that very few men have the patience to follow them from store to store as they try stuff on, giving feedback on what looks good on them, let alone pull out their wallet and buy for her what she picked out. Because of this, it makes any man who can do it (without constantly sighing / taking deep breaths / rubbing their eyes in frustration and to stay awake, or just fucking losing it altogether and yelling) a VERY rare find. Because of the rarity of the find, it makes that man an idol of sorts (perhaps an unachievable one in most of the reality these girls live in, but they can dream can't they? In the mind of many women and true SBs, this scenario is way more attractive than cash, because it not only satisfies their financial need, but gives them the feeling of control they crave (because it would mean we're such a wuss that we'd be willing to follow them around and buy them whatever they want) as well as making us someone they can see themselves spending a lot of time with; suddenly we've gone from being out of their preferred dating age range to being soul mate material to them!!

The trick is to always make sure any proposed shopping trip or idea of one is always far enough in the future so that you're not taking her shopping first and expecting payoff later; really you don't want to take her shopping at all and won't have to if you play your cards right, you just have to convince her later on that using the cash you gave her and going alone is better anyway because she can take her time without feeling pressure from you to hurry up or hearing about how your head or back or feet hurt or whatever from standing / sitting / walking etc.

An example was a civvy date find that just liked older men. She had another guy competing for her attention that was closer to her age and while I had gone out with her a couple of times, even gotten some DFK and groping on more than one occasion, she was gradually falling in love with him (something I wasn't even trying to offer since I was in love with someone else anyway) and it was starting to look unlikely that she would ever let me fuck her. So one day I said that I was going to take her on a shopping spree for her birthday (IMPORTANT POINT -- Her birthday was 2+ months away! Everything about how she saw me changed at that point and that was all it took to get the pendulum swinging in my direction. No, I never took her shopping. Her personality and mine were so incompatible that she should have known we wouldn't even be talking 2 months later. But I got what I wanted, and I no longer felt cheated about the times I had taken her out to dinner (2 or 3 times) and got nothing in return. And, she never held any resentment for me because for all she knew I really did have intentions of taking her shopping at some later date, things just panned out the way they were destined to anyway. We parted on good terms.

The best analogy I can think of is if you found a girl who is a hot looking virgin (remember what I said about rarity) , but gives you reason to believe you're going to be the one to get it. Imagine the negotiating position that puts her in to let you fantasize that its really going to happen as long as you don't screw it up. Same kind of thing, that's how they see a daddy that's willing to take them shopping. But of course if the shopping fantasy is fulfilled first, there's little motivation for them to perform in return, so it must be used as incentive.

I will say that not every woman cares about shopping. I've met a couple of SBs who didn't really care about shopping or even money, they wanted someone they can travel to exotics places with. So, did the Mister Lizard dangle the carrot a little bit in favor of some happy fun time at the expense of a few personal integrity points? Hmmm... I'll never tell. LOL

I agree with you 100%... I guess I am just less of a game player. No offense. But I really try to stay on point. My pleasure, her reward. In the past I actually made that a topic of conversation right off the bat. Not anymore.

[Beachesnole02]

You ever been with a hot young thing in the changing room at a Victoria Secret? I can just say it is incredible mental foreplay for both of you.

[JZLizard]

Sounds expensive. LOL. If they say shopping in their profile I usually move on.

I could write a book on the subject of shopping and what it means to women (which of course translates into SD tactics). You're absolutely right that you never want to actually take them shopping, but just understanding that it taps into something at the core of femininity and leveraging that to your advantage can pay off big time.

A large number of them fantasize about a man taking them shopping. Partially because of the idea of an unlimited spending spree they have in their mind, but also because of the psychological aspect. They know that very few men have the patience to follow them from store to store as they try stuff on, giving feedback on what looks good on them, let alone pull out their wallet and buy for her what she picked out. Because of this, it makes any man who can do it (without constantly sighing / taking deep breaths / rubbing their eyes in frustration and to stay awake, or just fucking losing it altogether and yelling) a VERY rare find. Because of the rarity of the find, it makes that man an idol of sorts (perhaps an unachievable one in most of the reality these girls live in, but they can dream can't they? In the mind of many women and true SBs, this scenario is way more attractive than cash, because it not only satisfies their financial need, but gives them the feeling of control they crave (because it would mean we're such a wuss that we'd be willing to follow them around and buy them whatever they want) as well as making us someone they can see themselves spending a lot of time with; suddenly we've gone from being out of their preferred dating age range to being soul mate material to them!!

The trick is to always make sure any proposed shopping trip or idea of one is always far enough in the future so that you're not taking her shopping first and expecting payoff later; really you don't want to take her shopping at all and won't have to if you play your cards right, you just have to convince her later on that using the cash you gave her and going alone is better anyway because she can take her time without feeling pressure from you to hurry up or hearing about how your head or back or feet hurt or whatever from standing / sitting / walking etc.

An example was a civvy date find that just liked older men. She had another guy competing for her attention that was closer to her age and while I had gone out with her a couple of times, even gotten some DFK and groping on more than one occasion, she was gradually falling in love with him (something I wasn't even trying to offer since I was in love with someone else anyway) and it was starting to look unlikely that she would ever let me fuck her. So one day I said that I was going to take her on a shopping spree for her birthday (IMPORTANT POINT -- Her birthday was 2+ months away! Everything about how she saw me changed at that point and that was all it took to get the pendulum swinging in my direction. No, I never took her shopping. Her personality and mine were so incompatible that she should have known we wouldn't even be talking 2 months later. But I got what I wanted, and I no longer felt cheated about the times I had taken her out to dinner (2 or 3 times) and got nothing in return. And, she never held any resentment for me because for all she knew I really did have intentions of taking her shopping at some later date, things just panned out the way they were destined to anyway. We parted on good terms.

The best analogy I can think of is if you found a girl who is a hot looking virgin (remember what I said about rarity) , but gives you reason to believe you're going to be the one to get it. Imagine the negotiating position that puts her in to let you fantasize that its really going to happen as long as you don't screw it up. Same kind of thing, that's how they see a daddy that's willing to take them shopping. But of course if the shopping fantasy is fulfilled first, there's little motivation for them to perform in return, so it must be used as incentive.

I will say that not every woman cares about shopping. I've met a couple of SBs who didn't really care about shopping or even money, they wanted someone they can travel to exotics places with. So, did the Mister Lizard dangle the carrot a little bit in favor of some happy fun time at the expense of a few personal integrity points? Hmmm... I'll never tell. LOL

[Dsprdo]

Sounds expensive. LOL. If they say shopping in their profile I usually move on.

I usually am all about the 23 year olds...this woman is my "type" (petite blond spinner), but older. Some guys have discussed the advantages of 30 somethings, so after she messaged me I wanted to give it a try. I will be trying to get the goods without going to deep into the sugar budget.

[HollywoodGuy]

Summer is here and things are getting busier. My dancer pot went radio silent after what I thought was a nice meeting. Texted her a couple of times, nothing, so I'm moving on. My newlywed baby is coming over for a nooner, and I just got a call from a 36 year old recently divorced blond who I've been emailing. She is brand new and in her profile she just talks about wanting nails / shoe shopping etc. I'm not sure what to expect from her, I think she wants to be a bad girl and explore her new found freedom. She invited me over to a local resort where she is hanging by the pool with a couple of her girlfriends this afternoon. That ought to be an interesting M&G! I decided, what the heck, after I get done with my regular baby and send her on her way, I might go over and buy them drinks at the pool. We'll see what comes of it.

Sounds expensive. LOL. If they say shopping in their profile I usually move on.

[Dsprdo]

Summer is here and things are getting busier. My dancer pot went radio silent after what I thought was a nice meeting. Texted her a couple of times, nothing, so I'm moving on. My newlywed baby is coming over for a nooner, and I just got a call from a 36 year old recently divorced blond who I've been emailing. She is brand new and in her profile she just talks about wanting nails / shoe shopping etc. I'm not sure what to expect from her, I think she wants to be a bad girl and explore her new found freedom. She invited me over to a local resort where she is hanging by the pool with a couple of her girlfriends this afternoon. That ought to be an interesting M&G! I decided, what the heck, after I get done with my regular baby and send her on her way, I might go over and buy them drinks at the pool. We'll see what comes of it.

[HollywoodGuy]

I can see hanging around a hottie like her, but with no apparent hope of a sleep in (the vagina) why would you waste any more time? I bet it was the challenge of the unobtainable. You thought you could break her down with your steely resolve. At least a feel up or a massage would have been nice. She owes you big time. Maybe she could refer her friends.

On sat we did cuddle for an hour or so. I felt her nice ass, legs and loved her tiny waist. But it was predicated on her going for the gold. Which she declined. I was a little bored with not much to do and she was a real first timer. Very clean and intelligent. It was an experiment to see what she was all about, get some psychological intel on the mindset of these types of girls. Usually I just go straight to the FC. I don't really negotiate. So I thought I would give it a try. And try something different. But there are too many willing girls out there. This was more like civi dating. She made it pretty clear that if she wanted to fuck me it would be because she was hot for me, and not the money. Guess I wasnt her type.

Now I remember why I don't civi date anymore. And hope to get lucky. I'd rather make my own luck.

[FredMoore]

I am such a nice guy. I did a failed M & G with this 19 year old girl a week ago. I had already moved on from even thinking about her and she called about noon and said she got kicked out of her moms. So I felt sorry for her and let her stay over. Just fed her some fast food, candy and ice cream.

We hung out all day then watched a couple movies and went to bed. No kissing or anything else.
Too bad because she is more than cute enough to bang. 5'7" and 117.

Suburban not urban. Educated and smells good. Not sure what's going to happen today. Nothing sexual that's for sure.

I offered to pay for her time, but she is not interested. Platonic sleepovers are not my thing,
I don't need company that bad, even for free.

I can see hanging around a hottie like her, but with no apparent hope of a sleep in (the vagina) why would you waste any more time? I bet it was the challenge of the unobtainable. You thought you could break her down with your steely resolve. At least a feel up or a massage would have been nice. She owes you big time. Maybe she could refer her friends.

[HollywoodGuy]

In response to my $ offer. 23.5"0' petite cutie nearby.

Very detailed and nice!!

I love passionate (you fill in the blanks).

I'm interested and want to know, where do I sign up!?

Will I see her. After some due diligence maybe. Monday and the replies are coming in.

[HollywoodGuy]

Everyone has their own version of what a 10 is.

This is only for my version. Mixed or AA petite spinners. 18 to 22 year old NP's. Minimum 1 hour for a first date.

10's - 98%.

09's - 97%.

08's - 90%.

07's - 87%.

06's - 80%.

05's - 75%.

If I did the percentage for UTR girls only, the turn down rate would be about 75% overall. Maybe less. With a very low turn down rate even for 7's. Maybe 50%. And I have had many 9's for that $.

For pros (meaning they advertise on escort sites) there really is no turn down rate as the average donation per half hour for covered FS is $. No matter how hot they are. But I rarely if ever go down that road.

The girl pictured below finally left. After spending a total of 3 days (which included 2 overnites), plus a 6 hour date and a 2 hour date with her which cost me $.75 total (basically just feeding her), I couldn't get her to agree to my plans for her. And neither did any other guy. I doubt I will go to that extreme to convert any other girl anytime soon.

[FredMoore]

So the little suburban girl is a bit lost in the big city. I blew off an unexpected trip to the FC (showing her all the txt's) with a confident 22 year old and let her stay another day. She did warm up to me a little after that, but in the end I went down in flames.

So I have been trying Hollywood's allowance schedule and am striking out across the board. I just can't pay what I used to. I have a few possibilities so I will see. If I could date in the open and expose these Babies to more than a FC visit I'm sure I would have more luck. This is truly a rich man's game. I would like to be rich again.