"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[JZLizard]

What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?

I'd keep the status quo except I'd try to minimize the real connection that's forming -- you're already getting the best she has to offer, connecting emotionally won't make the sex cheaper and only increases risk to your marriage and family. I personally wouldn't let myself get connected (I had one a couple of months ago that was a real risk for that and I had to send her away), but if she's getting connected in a one sided way I would do whatever I can to put some distance in between.

[HollywoodGuy]

A little off-topic, but I thought I'd pose a question to the group.

Generally I tell SBs and even Pots that I'm married. It just makes it easier to explain my schedule and she will understand the level of discretion I require from the outset.

The exception is when I see girls who are very close in my local area. Why do I see girls in my local area? Because while it raises risks in certain ways, it reduces risks in other ways because I don't have to sneak off for long trips, I'm able to do meetups on shorter notice, and I save money overall. And I live in a big enough metro area that even my local area has close to half a million people in a 20 mile radius. Having said that, I'm still very careful with information I disclose to the local girls. With local girls I usually keep my relationship status vague and everything is pretty much "Don't ask, don't tell" with my personal life. A girl who lives over a hour away is very unlikely to cause trouble or go snooping on a whim. Most of them are too lazy and broke to go through the effort. But if a girl is a local, she could get to snooping pretty easily if she gets bored one night without too much trouble. That's why I'm vague with them and usually tell them I live a few cities away even if I'm only a few blocks away.

Now the problem I have is my CL Teacher SB. We're starting to have a real connection, but I've never come out and told her that I'm married and have kids. She's never asked and I never told her. But I'm finding it hard to have certain conversations with her because I can't tell her about my weekend or I'm having to redact huge portions of my day when we're having simple conversations. Meanwhile she has been extremely open with me about herself and the people in her life. Of course I'm not going to tell her any direct personal identifying details, but I do have the urge to at least disclose the typical info I give to non-local SBs. We're coming up on almost 6 months of seeing each other and things have really picked up lately. It's not easy to find a LT ATF and I think I may have found one, so I'd like to open up at least just a little bit.

What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?

If she doesn't ask, then don't tell. She doesn't want to know. Why spoil the fantasy?

[FredMoore]

A little off-topic, but I thought I'd pose a question to the group.

Generally I tell SBs and even Pots that I'm married. It just makes it easier to explain my schedule and she will understand the level of discretion I require from the outset.

What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?

Tell her. The only risk is if she sees you as an IRL potential BF. Otherwise I have found that these little vixens only care about your checkbook. Now I realize that we each can develop feelings for the other, but did you ever try taking the Sugar off the table? I have and POOOOOF! Gone with the wind. You will get even closer to each other undoing the secrecy veil. She can find you if she wants to anyway.

[SkinJr]

So I text 22 year old latina spinner from yesterday to confirm our time tomorrow. She replies back immediately yes. Several minutes go by and she says "so I'm going to need 1000 cash. Is that reasonable for you.".

After dying from laughter, I reply "no. Sorry. It is not". She comes back with "what were you thinking?

I decide what the hell, I give her a list of what I've been paying. How the freak massage therapist will drive an hour to see me and fuck my brains out for 2 hours for this dollar amount, how another got $ a pop but we did it almost every day which is about 2000 a month, how another got 1 k a month no matter how many times we fucked and she always called me looking the the. So I ended it with "I'm a good looking guy, I'm a good fuck, and I will never hurt you unless you want me to".

I haven't heard back yet. Haha. She must have forgot that the cost of living is cheaper here in NC than NJ.

[John G Smith]

A little off-topic, but I thought I'd pose a question to the group.

Generally I tell SBs and even Pots that I'm married. It just makes it easier to explain my schedule and she will understand the level of discretion I require from the outset.

The exception is when I see girls who are very close in my local area. Why do I see girls in my local area? Because while it raises risks in certain ways, it reduces risks in other ways because I don't have to sneak off for long trips, I'm able to do meetups on shorter notice, and I save money overall. And I live in a big enough metro area that even my local area has close to half a million people in a 20 mile radius. Having said that, I'm still very careful with information I disclose to the local girls. With local girls I usually keep my relationship status vague and everything is pretty much "Don't ask, don't tell" with my personal life. A girl who lives over a hour away is very unlikely to cause trouble or go snooping on a whim. Most of them are too lazy and broke to go through the effort. But if a girl is a local, she could get to snooping pretty easily if she gets bored one night without too much trouble. That's why I'm vague with them and usually tell them I live a few cities away even if I'm only a few blocks away.

Now the problem I have is my CL Teacher SB. We're starting to have a real connection, but I've never come out and told her that I'm married and have kids. She's never asked and I never told her. But I'm finding it hard to have certain conversations with her because I can't tell her about my weekend or I'm having to redact huge portions of my day when we're having simple conversations. Meanwhile she has been extremely open with me about herself and the people in her life. Of course I'm not going to tell her any direct personal identifying details, but I do have the urge to at least disclose the typical info I give to non-local SBs. We're coming up on almost 6 months of seeing each other and things have really picked up lately. It's not easy to find a LT ATF and I think I may have found one, so I'd like to open up at least just a little bit.

What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?

[Oprime888]

On day 3, I had another date lined up, another 22 yo AA, was new to the site and wanted $ $ .50 for a date. During the exchanges, she came off kinda business like so she was low on my list of possible repeats. When we finally met though, she was a really funny girl and was just very cautious which I guess could come off as cold. She only had one previous encounter prior to meeting me and it was a rich dude who paid her 2.5 k for 2 nights! Wow, I got a deal here.

She had a very nice body, 5'7, Toned, be cups, very cute bubble butt (not those outrageous ones in rap videos). After a drink at the bar, we adjourned to my room and hung out talking about pretty much everything. The sex was ok, but I think it was my fault rather than hers, because I was quite drained from the previous night. She did put in a hella effort though so I guess I'd rate it a 7. Nothing amazing to be honest, but at that time, worth a repeat.

On day 4, yy other 2 POTs blew me off and I went back on the site and hunted down a 32 yo latina with a really beautiful face who had just registered on the site a day ago. All her photos were pretty much different angles of her very pretty face. She responded to my msg and we managed to set up a dinner date the next night. Prior to meeting she asked for more photos so I sent her one, and asked if she would send me some too. She agreed, and the one she sent me was not promising. It was one of those top down photos where you're not able to see her body...but even from that angle, I could see that she was chunky. Her face was so pretty though, that I made a mental note that if she wasn't a whale, I'd go ahead anyway.

Well, she showed up and she was 5'8 and at least 160 lbs. I'd never been with a girl over 110 lbs and it was always like a personal rule...But that face..oh my god. I figured, let's just see how many drinks it would get for me to ignore that body. She was a regular girl, sweet and friendly, liked to talk about herself mostly. So...a regular girl you'd meet in the civvy world. Bear in mind, up to till this stage no sugar has been mentioned. So we had a few drinks, proceeded for dinner and by this time I was quite into her. She showed a sensitive side and was really flirty in a nice subtle way, and slowly, all those extra lbs began to fade from my vision. Midway through our conversation, I even got hard when she made made some sexual innuendos involving putting things in her mouth! The previous 3 dates, at no point was I turned on until the clothes were shed, but this girl...she had my number..

So we go up to my room and once in there, wasted no time in getting our hands over each other. She'd make this little moans as we kissed and the oral was real nice slow and sensual, with those sexy little moans as well. Admittedly, I had to concentrate on looking at her face rather than her body, but I was hard as a rock throughout. I guess the difference here for me was that it felt that she was into me for real rather than the sugar. We ended going at it 3 times in the night and I was always rock hard as soon as she smiled at me. I hate to say it but we even did it BB the last 2 times. Not wise at all, but it was really in the heat of the moment, though I would never, ever recommend doing that to anybody other than your SO. In the morning, as she was getting ready to leave, I slipped a $ into her wallet (many wise men had mentioned, you're better off paying sooner rather than later) which she noticed later on (she texted me to say thanks) and this date had to be the highlight of my trip to vegas.

So...here's my report card. In Vegas for 5 days, met 4 girls and blew 6 loads. Total $ spent, $50. CPO = $.25.

Thanks for reading and I hope you gain something from having read it all.

[Oprime888]

So after my first night's adventures, I was scheduled to meet another 2 SBs on my second day in Vegas. One in the late afternoon and one for dinner. One was the missed date from last night (22 yo AA spinner, 5'3, 100 lbs, works as a stripper) and the second was a real POT. 19 yo latina (college student) who had only been on the site for a couple of days before I ensnared her. Needless to say, the AA spinner was a booty call and I was really looking forward to the my meet with the 19 yo latina.

The AA spinner did not flake this time and looked as good as her photos. Met at the bar, and she wanted to hang in the room immediately. Turns out she had been 86'ed from the property before, so it only confirmed my early suspicions that she was a WG or at best UTR. She's cute and funny, but very businessslike. We get down to business and she wants all the lights off! I manage to keep one light on but then she had all these rules...no kissing, no touching / eating of her pussy and capped right from the start! Sex was very mediocre and I even went soft for a while from the lack of chemistry. But like a horny old bastard, I soldiered on and busted one out in 10 minutes anyways. She was $ $ and needless to say, I did not repeat.

We finished up at about 730 pm and my next date was at 830 pm! The 19 yo latina was punctual and she even had to wait for 10 minutes. She was real sweet about it though and the difference between her and my date a few hours ago was night and day (in all senses of the word). This was a real SB in the making..young, sweet and very friendly. She had only been on the site for about 2 weeks and only closed one deal and I was her second. We had dinner and had a nice time talking and building chemistry. Being so young, she was quite taken by my experiences in life. I know that that's just the age difference and I certainly don't think I'm any wiser than I was when I was in my 20's, but I guess to a 19 yo, it's still more maturity than what she's used to. We make our way back to the room and she jumped on the bed and motioned me over...nothing was off limits for her (except anal)...and we were kissing up a storm. I went to town on her pussy and was also pleasantly surprised at her oral skills! When it was time for the action, she was tight as...I don't even...well, it was tight and we went at it for about 20 minutes before I unloaded my soldiers into their rubbery cage.

After more small talk, she got dressed and at no point raised the issue of sugar, but I'm clear what this is, so when we hugged to say goodbye, I slipped the agreed $ $ into her hand. All in all, 2 experiences hours apart, but were in fact worlds apart.

(There's a part 3! Stay tuned...).

[Oprime888]

Firstly, a huge thank you to all the greats of this forum for passing on such solid advice in the bowl. As a first timer, many of your stories and exploits helped me to avoid plenty of unnecessary blunders.

To get right into it, I was visiting Vegas for a week for work and decided to use SD4 ME to get some dates. My plan was to meet as many as possible in the first couple of days and hopefully, repeat the top 2 for the remainder of the trip.

So after sending out 500 over emails in a month and chatting to about 30, I narrowed my selection down to 6. With these 6, I laid out clear expectations as advised on this blog and was able to get all to agree to between $.5 to $ $.50 per date. (The $ depended on how attracted I was to each SB).

I scheduled 2 to meet on the day I landed and as expected, both flaked. I decided to use that money on the tables instead, and halfway through losing, one of the 2 texted and was suddenly able to meet in 20 minutes. I said sure, cut my losses and headed over to the bar to wait for her. While at the bar, these 2 young and very hot blondes (not older than 22) sidled up next to me and ordered tequila shots. They sounded a looked high (not sure from alcohol or...) I was waiting for my date, so made no move whatsoever, but the blonde next to me, would shoot me looks every now and then. I'm no hunk, so I know these girls are working me and I had a date coming so I just played it cool. 10 minutes later and my date still hasn't arrived and the blonde next to me starts chatting me up.

So I buy them shots and she starts with the small talk (from 'Frisco, works at the Spearmint Rhino, heading back home tomorrow etc), and now I'm thinking how much would these 2 cost me...about 10 minutes more, my date shows up (I know because she described what she was wearing). Now, the SB is not bad looking (single mum, early 20's, 5'5, about 120 lbs, brown hair, latin with a small belly). Cute, but next to these 2 blondes, she's a wallflower.

Decision time...do I honor the date with the SB or go into the unknown with these 2 super hot blonde strippers which are surely going to cost me more than $ $. In the end, the smaller head took control and I blew off my SB and invited these 2 strippers up to my room. No surprise ending here, it did not go well for me! In the lift, they started mauling me and taking off their tops (so this is what happens in Vegas!) By the time we got into my room, they were half naked and literally ripping my clothes off. They started going at each other while intermittently stuffing their titties in my face, stripper style.

And then of course, they told me how much it'd cost me.

A grand each.

I laughed and said I could never afford it and long story short, they told me to f* off and broke 2 pairs of my glasses on their way out (I had 5). I contemplated if I would have made a different decision knowing how it would end, but you know what...I'd still probably end up with 2 pairs of broken glasses. Hey, it's Vegas!

So if you're still reading at this point...I apologize if you found that first story irrelevant to this board, but I thought I should record my entire experience to share anyways. Take what you will from the story, but the moral is always the same. Man never makes good decisions with penis.

(Part 2 to follow shortly)..

[JZLizard]

Last long term thing was about six years ago-dated lots of "age appropriate" women from match or from friends set-ups for a while with zero interest in any of them as a new SO. After a couple of years of celibacy, went down the escort road, not satisfying, then happened on SB's. There are ups and downs (like in RL dating), but overall the last year has been great. I recently met an age appropriate woman who was clearly interested, and attractive for her (our) age, but she can't compare with the heat from even a short term thing with the dancer I am trying to close. And there are so many others-100% SB for me.

Not only this, but even if you decide that "age appropriate" means ten or fifteen years less than you previously thought, the fact that you've been banging SBs will give you the edge in lowering the age range of your civies, if you decided to go that route. Women can detect confidence like a dog can detect an unwanted visitor. The more you give the impression (without saying it or trying to convey it) that you're doing them a favor by being with them, the more they will want you!

But your post made me realize I should probably clarify one point -- when I refer to civy dating on match, POF etc., I do not necessarily mean going after "age appropriate" (by societies definition) women. I have met and banged girls on these sites that are open to SDs, some of them even opening the upper age range on their "desired age range" to 70 or whatever. In other words they are still SBs, they are just operating in a different environment.

There are some girls out there that want to be an SB in a latent sort of way, that are TRUE SBs (as opposed to hookers that see SD sites as yet another venue to market themselves). But many of them won't join an SB site or put their pictures there in any way because of the stigma and the fact they have real lives (but they would on a normal dating site because there's no shame). I know everyone here is after the 18-22 crowd but I promise you there are some 26-28 year olds out there who are actually hotter and have the experience and enthusiasm to put the high school grads with stars in their eyes to shame. The problem is that it takes more work to find them, and unfortunately I don't have that kind of time anymore. If I were without a stable relationship, even if I were 75 years old I would be exploring the less traveled paths without question. Some real finds there.

That brings me to another point -- don't hesitate to invest the time to read the profile criteria for those who didn't upload a photo. They are the ones most likely to be newbies and/or non-pros. You can find some real treats. Hot photos uploaded to an SD site shows she's at a whole new level and she's already WAY more involved in this than she will ever admit.

[Dsprdo]

What percentage do you guys civi date vs sugar date. For me its 100% sugar. I mean really, at 60 where am I going to hook-up with any kinky 18 to 22 year olds (or any age for that matter). And yes I have read some very interesting approaches to doing that. But they don't work for a old school desk jockey, new school internet geek like me.

Last long term thing was about six years ago-dated lots of "age appropriate" women from match or from friends set-ups for a while with zero interest in any of them as a new SO. After a couple of years of celibacy, went down the escort road, not satisfying, then happened on SB's. There are ups and downs (like in RL dating), but overall the last year has been great. I recently met an age appropriate woman who was clearly interested, and attractive for her (our) age, but she can't compare with the heat from even a short term thing with the dancer I am trying to close. And there are so many others-100% SB for me.

[JZLizard]

I agree that it is very close to flushing money, but I have to say that I have gone out on a limb twice and not been burned. A while back I advanced 300 for rent to a SB who I had agreed to $ per meet, and she saw me 3 more times before breaking it off because I wasn't "reliable" enough (huh? Second time was at the M&G with my current, longest running, and now married SB, who said she felt 500/ mo for twice a week was good; I immediately took her home to the FC and gave her the 5. That has been a golden investment. I have said no to other women on several other occasions when I felt like it wasn't going to end well. I like to think it is my superior perception of character, but I'm probably just another sucker who's going to get burned sooner or later!

I think for purposes of this thread you're the exception rather than the rule. I have never advanced anyone money, but I imagine there's a difference between advancing someone money you've seen many times before versus someone you haven't banged yet, and I wasn't sure where your situation fits on that scale.

I will say this -- during my relatively sporadic SB career, I've learned one thing. SBs, unless they are just pros posing as SBs, can be so wildly different as individuals in terms of their expectations that it can be extremely challenging for someone like me to keep up with only one month a year to go twat-diving. I've met some that were clearly escorts using SD sites as a (as they perceive it) safer venue. I've met some that were clearly experimenting with the idea. I've met some that love the idea of travel and shopping sprees but if handing them cash will only anger them. I've met some that are victims of their own attractiveness -- they need to find a guy that's already married or taken, because anyone single will follow them around like a puppy dog and get on their nerves, but they have very little "need for financial help". Gauging which type they are is part of the challenge and part of what I find addictive.

So, while your experience varies from the norm here, I can understand how your experiences are so different from others. I find the same thing just jumping from city to city -- completely different attitudes sometimes in one geographic area, so much so that I have to adjust my own strategy in that particular area just to operate effectively.

But, I guess the bottom line is, if what you're doing is working for you then keep doing it. As a general guideline though, I'd say never advance money to someone you haven't already banged and don't know where she lives. If you're close enough with her to the point both of those are a yes, you've got an extra couple of feathers in your cap that move the odds of payback closer to your favor.

With my annual SB season I'm not looking to get that close to any of them. I should just change my name to 5-oclock Charlie (if you've ever seen MASH). I just cruise by and drop my payload then I'm gone until the next predictable time frame.

[Dsprdo]

My FB has rinsed me of $ I am 100 % on all advances over $ . After 1 month I am giving it up on her. I am cured of the delusion that these babies are honorable. If they are Nando 1 s and want advances then dollars to donuts they are looking to scam you. If you give them enough to walk, even short time, then they will. They can't help it. Then they are too ashamed to come back even if the door is open. Why they give up the future prospect of $s to score a short time $ I will never understand, but we don't think the same.tt

I agree that it is very close to flushing money, but I have to say that I have gone out on a limb twice and not been burned. A while back I advanced 300 for rent to a SB who I had agreed to $ per meet, and she saw me 3 more times before breaking it off because I wasn't "reliable" enough (huh? Second time was at the M&G with my current, longest running, and now married SB, who said she felt 500/ mo for twice a week was good; I immediately took her home to the FC and gave her the 5. That has been a golden investment. I have said no to other women on several other occasions when I felt like it wasn't going to end well. I like to think it is my superior perception of character, but I'm probably just another sucker who's going to get burned sooner or later!

[GeorgeRichmond]

On a side note. Two sugar babies off of SA have been arrested in NC for prostitution and robbery. I won't give out names so that I won't violate any of the rules on here, but their profile is "Peaches and Cream".

Finally someone gave me a good news. Looks like they deserved it ...more and more SBs who are doing this! Lessons for them for robbery.

[Dolato]

On a side note. Two sugar babies off of SA have been arrested in NC for prostitution and robbery. I won't give out names so that I won't violate any of the rules on here, but their profile is "Peaches and Cream".

Goes to show you have to be careful regardless of how you hobby. I'm just as cautious meeting off of SD4 M as I am with HX. Be careful everyone.

[JZLizard]

At SD4 m they could care less. But I did get a foreign scammer thrown off of their once that had been on that site for about 4 years.

Yeah, there's nothing to say any given site will act on the report, but who knows if more than one SD calls her out then maybe she will get booted. Remember these girls don't pay the site's bills, the guys do and if the person who reads the report has any financial interest in the sites profitability, then it should be a good move in the favor of the SD, even if he never sees direct results or gets the girl booted, there's always a chance she will think twice next time. Since they don't have to link their credit card, there's probably not much stopping them from re-joining the site under new e-mail anyway, but anything that sends the message to the girl may help her realize she won't get away with it unnoticed. If nothing else reporting her will make the victim feel like less of a chump about the situation and that's better than nothing too IMO.