"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[HollywoodGuy]

This pretty much sums up my perspective, always pay after the fact. I also am increasingly moving toward a policy of never even discussing price ahead of time because I believe that locking in a price obligates me to pay that price regardless of performance, and once I do that then the SB is in control of how good the performance is and I am unwilling to give them that control. If she insists on discussing price ahead of time, I will do it, which I have done a few times, but I find those girls to be more escorts than real SBs.

I'm relatively new to the official SB scene, yet looking back I've "helped" various "girlfriends" out going back as far as a couple of decades ago. True story, mid 90's -- I was married back then, and a girl I was fucking on the side, I decided to turn into my own personal paid playmate. She was only 3-4 years younger than me -- not really the SB age gap we see these days, but smoking hot. I actually handed her an envelope with some help with the bills (it felt thick because I padded it with a few low denomination bills so she would feel sorry for me after opening it) she held onto it, sort of feeling it in her hands, long enough that I could see the decision making process taking place in her mind as she felt the girth of the envelope. I don't remember how much it was but I think maybe 150 (remember this was 20 yrs ago and she was a separated mom with kids). I was not rich or in a real position to truly support her but I was trying to help anyway. She handed me back the envelope without ever opening it or looking inside, and basically said she didn't want it to be about money. Later she went and bragged to her friends about what a great woman she was for not taking my money (in retrospect yes it was kind of admirable wasn't it), yet she embellished the story to say that I gave her $1000 (remember she never looked in the envelope) and she didn't want it because she's not a working girl (well she was but in a good way, hehe).

Ok fast forward to my 2014 SB expedition, and I can categorize my SBs as following into one of two categories:

1. The Approach: Didn't discuss money ahead of time, but did not balk or even blink at spending when they ordered a drink, dessert, extra appetizers at dinner etc.

The Result: Good sex, full-on GFE. One of them ended on bad terms but it was unrelated to money, and even she was talking about looking forward to the next date as she was getting dressed to go home. The others described their experience as "would love to repeat" with me, and thanked me for my generous gift ($200 is my standard gift for a stunner, and I don't date below that, but keep in mind sometimes my hotel cost me more than the poon).

2. The Approach: Got into money discussions before fucking them.

The Result: Did not work out well for me. Never even got to see them naked. Turns out the girls I go for think their time is worth $1 k-2 k or other ridiculous amounts but ONLY if you ask them ahead of time. Cram the cock in them and spray them with cum and pay them what you want and they're happy. In these cases of the pre-discussed pussy, I told them I don't want to be the customer to an expensive hooker. They say they are not hookers. I said "so you'd fuck me without payment just to try each other out once then, and if chemistry is there we can talk about allowance? Because if not that would mean you're a hooker" and of course then they usually become unresponsive. Hehe. So you can see how this approach isn't working for me. I have tried being a little smoother than that, even demonstrating how my rate per hour is much better than even the fantasy rates they've quoted me (to be fair those four digit figures they quote are sometimes for a full night or weekend, but the truth is I don't WANT them for that long so if they were anything less than retarded at math, they would know the per-hour rate I'm offering is a good deal for them).

So basically my conclusion is that I need to at least meet them face to face, let them know my pics are real, pour on my normal dating charm a little bit, etc. And I feel that puts me in the best negotiating position if in fact negotiating is to take place at all (it really hasn't yet, before the fact, with me). Talking money first doesn't always go my way, I wrote here about an experience where I met for dinner only to have the ***** go GPS on me. Under the impression her pussy was worth four digit figures. Her loss though, because the very next night I had an all-nighter with someone that blew her away, I paid peanuts and had to send her home because she wouldn't leave. And, the night after that I was sitting in bed alone holding my own dick dreaming about what happened the night before.

That's just how it goes for me. But I still hold firm to never pay in advance. If negotiating in advance is working for you, I say keep doing it (so okay maybe I don't hold firm in all cases). But, it has not yet worked once for me.

As far as someone you've banged previously -- even less reason to advance them money. They should already have trust for you by now, knowing you will pay when the time is right. Maybe they are tapping into our sense of "if you can't give me the money now, I'll have to fuck someone else for it". If that's the reason then just know they're playing you. It will not turn out in your favor to pay them in advance, no matter what, and it doesn't matter if it's SBs or someone mowing your yard. They already have their money and they will minimize their role from there. Pay later and only pay commensurate with their performance. Lousy work, shit pay. That's how life works.

Ruling out the truly rich, so price is not a problem, $$$$ for a stunner may be worth it. But I have daily needs that have to be met. On normal VP pay at the moment. I have budgeted about 2.5 k a month for the last couple years now out of necessity. But came to find out that the $ girls really are the best ones IMHO. As no one can support themselves on that amount they really have to like you to stick around. Unless they are seeing 3 guys a day. But I am talking about the true NP SB exclusive girls. Of which there are very few admittedly.

[JZLizard]

I think it's known that fake profiles exist on certain sites like Ashley Mad, and I'm sure they exist on others too.

I remember noticing that on SD4 M, there'd be profiles newly created and although I sent out my message right away, none of the messages were read and those profiles never logged in again.

I've been getting an insane amount of spam on my SD e-mail addy, which I often offer in my first message to them. I think spammers put fake profiles to collect e-mail addresses so they can send "Hey remember me?? Sending you some nasty photos" type e-mails hoping we will click the links within indiscriminately. It's gotten so bad that the next time I renew on the SD sites (whenever my GF goes out of town probably), I'm just going to start with another bogus email addy. I'm talking currently about 40 spam mails per day -- it was nothing like that last year so something is going on lately.

Ultimately what I'd be worried about on a pay-per-contact site is the folks getting paid generating the fake profiles. The owner of WYP, Brandon Wade is Singaporean living in Vegas, also owns SeekingMillionaire and MissTravel.com which I guess is a little better than a site based overseas but you still have to feel like sending an e-mail to a girl is a little like playing a slot machine.

[Dolato]

The issue I see comes into play when you think about the fact that someone who stands to profit behind the web site operation could benefit by hiring models (even girl-next door realistic looking ones) to sell photos for phony profiles, and you end up with a situation that deserves scrutiny. I wouldn't necessarily rule it out.

I think it's known that fake profiles exist on certain sites like Ashley Mad, and I'm sure they exist on others too.

I remember noticing that on SD4 M, there'd be profiles newly created and although I sent out my message right away, none of the messages were read and those profiles never logged in again.

[JZLizard]

This site is a bit sketchy to me you have to pay $10 plus per pot got to add up fast vs. monthly fee.

Yeah I was wondering about that when I saw it (how much per contact). At the same time though you have the advantage of knowing that the per-contact fee limits the number of contacts they get, meaning you'll have less competition. One thing about SBs is they start off assuming we are ATM machines with no limits (it's up to us to break out the level and make sure expectations are plumb and true). So, in their mind it should be nothing for a "REAL" SD to spend ten bucks to get their attention (would you buy them a drink in the bar if it were 1975? etc}.

The issue I see comes into play when you think about the fact that someone who stands to profit behind the web site operation could benefit by hiring models (even girl-next door realistic looking ones) to sell photos for phony profiles, and you end up with a situation that deserves scrutiny. I wouldn't necessarily rule it out. But damn... $10 per email huh? On one hand it does sort of filter out all but real millionaires and foolish spenders (mister generous types), but at the same time the sugar business isn't exactly regulated. I'd say make sure the WYP girl doesn't already have a profile elsewhere, because if it's on one of the SD sites it's "cheaper to reach her" as they say, and if she's on CL you can rest assured she's getting 300 mails a day by guys who haven't had a job in years.

[Zman429]

Anyone notice that this area has dried up with SA and SDFM? There are no new SDFM candidates in my search zone for weeks and SA only has a few new SBs every few days. Any other websites yielding new talent? Is the economy that good? What is the dynamic guys?

Unfortunately each dating site requires you to sign up to get to see the goods. They should let guys search to our hearts' content and we would be motivated to pay if there was any good Pots in our area on their sites.

Wait till the girls are out of school in a few weeks should pick up fast.

[Zman429]

Take a look at WYP. You can find some gems on this site. Free to sign up, but will cost to access contact information per POT.

This site is a bit sketchy to me you have to pay $10 plus per pot got to add up fast vs monthly fee.

[JZLizard]

Fred, you have more experience in the SB world than I do, but I have hired a lot of private contractors in my day. You just can't let them get too far ahead of you. If you pay them in advance, its like leaving money on the table. After that they are faced with a choice of doing your job for free (because they won't get any money for it since they have already been paid) or doing a job for someone else and making their beer money.

This pretty much sums up my perspective, always pay after the fact. I also am increasingly moving toward a policy of never even discussing price ahead of time because I believe that locking in a price obligates me to pay that price regardless of performance, and once I do that then the SB is in control of how good the performance is and I am unwilling to give them that control. If she insists on discussing price ahead of time, I will do it, which I have done a few times, but I find those girls to be more escorts than real SBs.

I'm relatively new to the official SB scene, yet looking back I've "helped" various "girlfriends" out going back as far as a couple of decades ago. True story, mid 90's -- I was married back then, and a girl I was fucking on the side, I decided to turn into my own personal paid playmate. She was only 3-4 years younger than me -- not really the SB age gap we see these days, but smoking hot. I actually handed her an envelope with some help with the bills (it felt thick because I padded it with a few low denomination bills so she would feel sorry for me after opening it) she held onto it, sort of feeling it in her hands, long enough that I could see the decision making process taking place in her mind as she felt the girth of the envelope. I don't remember how much it was but I think maybe 150 (remember this was 20 yrs ago and she was a separated mom with kids). I was not rich or in a real position to truly support her but I was trying to help anyway. She handed me back the envelope without ever opening it or looking inside, and basically said she didn't want it to be about money. Later she went and bragged to her friends about what a great woman she was for not taking my money (in retrospect yes it was kind of admirable wasn't it), yet she embellished the story to say that I gave her $1000 (remember she never looked in the envelope) and she didn't want it because she's not a working girl (well she was but in a good way, hehe).

Ok fast forward to my 2014 SB expedition, and I can categorize my SBs as following into one of two categories:

1. The Approach: Didn't discuss money ahead of time, but did not balk or even blink at spending when they ordered a drink, dessert, extra appetizers at dinner etc.

The Result: Good sex, full-on GFE. One of them ended on bad terms but it was unrelated to money, and even she was talking about looking forward to the next date as she was getting dressed to go home. The others described their experience as "would love to repeat" with me, and thanked me for my generous gift ($200 is my standard gift for a stunner, and I don't date below that, but keep in mind sometimes my hotel cost me more than the poon).

2. The Approach: Got into money discussions before fucking them.

The Result: Did not work out well for me. Never even got to see them naked. Turns out the girls I go for think their time is worth $1 k-2 k or other ridiculous amounts but ONLY if you ask them ahead of time. Cram the cock in them and spray them with cum and pay them what you want and they're happy. In these cases of the pre-discussed pussy, I told them I don't want to be the customer to an expensive hooker. They say they are not hookers. I said "so you'd fuck me without payment just to try each other out once then, and if chemistry is there we can talk about allowance? Because if not that would mean you're a hooker" and of course then they usually become unresponsive. Hehe. So you can see how this approach isn't working for me. I have tried being a little smoother than that, even demonstrating how my rate per hour is much better than even the fantasy rates they've quoted me (to be fair those four digit figures they quote are sometimes for a full night or weekend, but the truth is I don't WANT them for that long so if they were anything less than retarded at math, they would know the per-hour rate I'm offering is a good deal for them).

So basically my conclusion is that I need to at least meet them face to face, let them know my pics are real, pour on my normal dating charm a little bit, etc. And I feel that puts me in the best negotiating position if in fact negotiating is to take place at all (it really hasn't yet, before the fact, with me). Talking money first doesn't always go my way, I wrote here about an experience where I met for dinner only to have the ***** go GPS on me. Under the impression her pussy was worth four digit figures. Her loss though, because the very next night I had an all-nighter with someone that blew her away, I paid peanuts and had to send her home because she wouldn't leave. And, the night after that I was sitting in bed alone holding my own dick dreaming about what happened the night before.

That's just how it goes for me. But I still hold firm to never pay in advance. If negotiating in advance is working for you, I say keep doing it (so okay maybe I don't hold firm in all cases). But, it has not yet worked once for me.

As far as someone you've banged previously -- even less reason to advance them money. They should already have trust for you by now, knowing you will pay when the time is right. Maybe they are tapping into our sense of "if you can't give me the money now, I'll have to fuck someone else for it". If that's the reason then just know they're playing you. It will not turn out in your favor to pay them in advance, no matter what, and it doesn't matter if it's SBs or someone mowing your yard. They already have their money and they will minimize their role from there. Pay later and only pay commensurate with their performance. Lousy work, shit pay. That's how life works.

[LoudThunder]

Fred, you have more experience in the SB world than I do, but I have hired a lot of private contractors in my day. You just can't let them get too far ahead of you. If you pay them in advance, its like leaving money on the table. After that they are faced with a choice of doing your job for free (because they won't get any money for it since they have already been paid) or doing a job for someone else and making their beer money.

I don't disagree with you for advancing some sum of money, but maybe you gave her too much.

It seems that you are better with her for now until you find a replacement. I would suggest you text her and tell her you won some money at the track or something other white lie, and you want to celebrate it with her. In other words, give her an incentive to come back to you, because it is evident she doesn't want to come back for free.

My FB has gone dark. Not even responding to texts anymore. I lost the gamble yet again. I can't believe that she would give up a SD who is a regular for few $$ . But I am constantly disappointed by these skitzo creatures. I might have to see some UTRs but I hate to go there again even though I think my FB is / was an UTR. One possibility is that she was arrested for soliciting or got a BF / bigger SD. It would be nice to get a "Dear John " text so I can let it go.

Hollywood, it sounds like you are THE man now. 7 girls in 3 days and I can't get my rocks off once. Keep it up! (so to speak).

[CaneBay]

Anyone notice that this area has dried up with SA and SDFM? There are no new SDFM candidates in my search zone for weeks and SA only has a few new SBs every few days. Any other websites yielding new talent? Is the economy that good? What is the dynamic guys?

Unfortunately each dating site requires you to sign up to get to see the goods. They should let guys search to our hearts' content and we would be motivated to pay if there was any good Pots in our area on their sites.

Take a look at WYP. You can find some gems on this site. Free to sign up, but will cost to access contact information per POT.

[JZLizard]

Anyone notice that this area has dried up with SA and SDFM? There are no new SDFM candidates in my search zone for weeks and SA only has a few new SBs every few days. Any other websites yielding new talent? Is the economy that good? What is the dynamic guys?

Unfortunately each dating site requires you to sign up to get to see the goods. They should let guys search to our hearts' content and we would be motivated to pay if there was any good Pots in our area on their sites.

I'm not able to play the SB game year round, so it's hard for me to gauge, but is it noticeably different from same time last year (assuming you were involved with it then)?

I just wonder how much nicer weather has to do with it (I.e. They could be traveling more, enjoying lower energy bills, etc). Early May is usually final exam time in most colleges so many could be packing up to go home for the summer, etc.

I used to always notice seasonal fluctuations in online civy dating. Weird shit would start to happen around March-April -- I would get e-mails out of the blue from girls I had only barely swapped a couple of e-mails with asking if I was interested in meeting. I couldn't tell if it was because they get hornier as the weather gets warmer, or maybe the winters were hard on relationships and they were going on a 60 day window from breakup from their last boyfriend, etc. Then during the summer it seemed harder to start up something new so I would bang whatever I had going at the time until the fall when things got better.

I never could figure out the cause of the patterns but the patterns themselves were real.

[Member #4727]

Yep, I noticed that my area of VA and nearby NC is pretty dead, SD4 M, SA, and SDT. My searches come up with the same hits and a load of others who have not logged in for weeks. I notice this particularly the over-30 ranges that I search in (personal preference). Waiting for the next shipment from Sugar-Land I guess, LOL.

Colleges are letting out, so you're seeing that demographic head back home for the summer. I know out my way Longwood you is a ghost town.

I expect a talk show / reality show / what have you airing an episode on SB's might cause a spike as well, I'd imagine. It's just not ingrained in the mentality here like it is out Hollywood's way.

[KrustyDawg7]

Anyone notice that this area has dried up with SA and SDFM? There are no new SDFM candidates in my search zone for weeks and SA only has a few new SBs every few days. Any other websites yielding new talent? Is the economy that good? What is the dynamic guys?

Unfortunately each dating site requires you to sign up to get to see the goods. They should let guys search to our hearts' content and we would be motivated to pay if there was any good Pots in our area on their sites.

Yep, I noticed that my area of VA and nearby NC is pretty dead, SD4 M, SA, and SDT. My searches come up with the same hits and a load of others who have not logged in for weeks. I notice this particularly the over-30 ranges that I search in (personal preference). Waiting for the next shipment from Sugar-Land I guess, LOL.

[HollywoodGuy]

My FB has gone dark. Not even responding to texts anymore. I lost the gamble yet again. I can't believe that she would give up a SD who is a regular for few $$ . But I am constantly disappointed by these skitzo creatures. I might have to see some UTRs but I hate to go there again even though I think my FB is / was an UTR. One possibility is that she was arrested for soliciting or got a BF / bigger SD. It would be nice to get a "Dear John " text so I can let it go.

Hollywood, it sounds like you are THE man now. 7 girls in 3 days and I can't get my rocks off once. Keep it up! (so to speak).

I canceled my date with the 18 year old after seeing my MILF last night, as she completely drained me. Going to see the jamaican princess at 4 today for sure though. Sometimes I get a little manic. Like on that last post.

[FredMoore]

My FB has gone dark. Not even responding to texts anymore. I lost the gamble yet again. I can't believe that she would give up a SD who is a regular for few $$ . But I am constantly disappointed by these skitzo creatures. I might have to see some UTRs but I hate to go there again even though I think my FB is / was an UTR. One possibility is that she was arrested for soliciting or got a BF / bigger SD. It would be nice to get a "Dear John " text so I can let it go.

Hollywood, it sounds like you are THE man now. 7 girls in 3 days and I can't get my rocks off once. Keep it up! (so to speak).

[FredMoore]

Anyone notice that this area has dried up with SA and SDFM? There are no new SDFM candidates in my search zone for weeks and SA only has a few new SBs every few days. Any other websites yielding new talent? Is the economy that good? What is the dynamic guys?

Unfortunately each dating site requires you to sign up to get to see the goods. They should let guys search to our hearts' content and we would be motivated to pay if there was any good Pots in our area on their sites.