"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

**John G Smith** · 07-10-13 14:45

Originally Posted by Hernando [View Original Post]

All true but we are human and develop a comfort level when we get away with things so long. Then the dreaded slip happens. In marriages you can lose a wife, kids, respect, money. In black ops your life. There are certainly degrees of loss depending on the risk you are taking.

IT WILL HAPPEN.

After all, all of us know that to speed will possibly incur fines but we do it anyway. Sorry to be a downer but I've become a realist. Single guys have an enviable position. There is really not much to lose.

Woodslinger I had a very elaborate black ops routine. I did all (and more) of things you spoke of. But literally the one-time I didn't sanitize my pockets was the time I got caught. As Hernando said, we're human. You're going to slip up and some point. You just have to hope the time (s) you slip up, either go unnoticed or it's something you can recover from.

Hubris is a dangerous thing. Often times the no longer you don't have a minor slip-up, the more likely you're going to make a bigger mistake because you'll get sloppy, lazy, and over-confident. Honestly I'm somewhat happy I had this minor incident. It's reminded me to stay on my toes. The downside is that there is now officially circumstantial evidence against me. My margin of error has just gotten a lot smaller. This will come back to haunt me if I slip up again and the next time will likely be harder to wiggle out as the circumstantial evidence mounts.

**Hernando** · 07-10-13 14:14

Originally Posted by WoodSlinger [View Original Post]

You can never, ever let your guard down. No matter how comfortable it seems, the instant you do, the lion roars and lops off your head.

All true but we are human and develop a comfort level when we get away with things so long. Then the dreaded slip happens. In marriages you can lose a wife, kids, respect, money. In black ops your life. There are certainly degrees of loss depending on the risk you are taking.

IT WILL HAPPEN.

After all, all of us know that to speed will possibly incur fines but we do it anyway. Sorry to be a downer but I've become a realist. Single guys have an enviable position. There is really not much to lose.

**WoodSlinger** · 07-10-13 13:21

Originally Posted by Hernando [View Original Post]

This is exceptionally good advice. I'm sorry for your shit storm and that of Alias. I too have been fighting through the storm for a year now. I am working on rehabbing my marriage but am having trouble giving up the lifestyle. There is nothing better than banging a girl 40 yrs younger.

Alias, the other excuse that is reasonable is to act ashamed and admit that you wanted to masturbate in a condom for the sensation and cleanliness of it. A lubed hand job feels pretty good. Otherwise the thinking about an affair but haven't pulled the trigger yet might be enough of an honest revelation to make her rethink what she needs to do to make you happy.

Re: getting into this, don't do it unless you are ready to toss the marriage (and lifestyle) away. As the guys have said, you will be caught if you continue long enough.

One thing to remember when conducting covert operations that could have significant impact on your life. You HAVE to remember to sanitize yourself after your sessions. Toss anything like receipts, business cards, clothing, used condoms. LOL. That might indicate what your activities really are. Leaving a condom in your pocket is just plain dumb. So is having a card with a number on it.

There really needs to be a how to guide on how to achieve stealth mode. From phone and text messages to securing hotel rooms that leave no paper trail. These things are easily done, if you know what you are doing and operate under a set of rules 100% of the time you spend in the bowl. Take the time, figure out the techniques used by others. Then for fucks sake clean up after you see your MILF or HYM or HCB or whatever moniker you are using.

You can never, ever let your guard down. No matter how comfortable it seems, the instant you do, the lion roars and lops off your head.

I have a routine that works, Google Voice for phone calls and texts, hotels will rent you a room on a cash only basis, just call them first. They will still want a DL in case you blow the place up, never give your babies any personally identifiable information. I never use a CC around a girl. Always pay cash and lock my wallet in the glove box if she is going to be in the vehicle. When you are finished, scout your clothes and body for lipstick, empty your pockets, wallet, console, seats, under seats and trunk. Hell I often stop at a gas station or convenience store to perform my own self shakedown.

One time I came home from work. With my polo shirt on inside out. That got some strange looks. But it was easily brushed aside due to inclement weather and needing to dry off after I had stopped at the store and got wet returning to my vehicle. From then on I swore I would double and triple check everything.

I think my relationship could survive the indiscretions, I don't want to find out though, that is for sure.

**Hernando** · 07-10-13 12:15

Originally Posted by John G Smith [View Original Post]

I want to start my post off by quoting the TV show The Wire:

'The thing is, you only got to fuck up once. Be a little slow, be a little late, just once. And how you ain't going to never be slow, never be late? You can't plan for no shit like this man, it's life. '

Well I finally was a little slow, a little late. Ironically just like AliasSM I left behind a potential damaging piece of evidence of my escapades.

There's so many moving parts that it's pretty much impossible to play this game for any length of time and not get scathed in some way or another.

Yes the sugar world has a bit of glitz and glamor of banging college hotties and young MILFs and having you're own personal stable. But before you jump in head first, you need to decide if you're married, are you willing to risk your marriage for this lifestyle? If you're in the sugar for more than 3-4 months, you have a 50% chance of exposure and / or suspicions by your SO. If you're in the game for more than a year, it goes up to damn near 90. Most of us are just happy if we can keep the suspicions low enough so the SO can look the other way. But one critical mistake can throw that out the window.

If you have a home life that you want to preserve unscathed, think very long and hard before you decide to be a sugar daddy.

This is exceptionally good advice. I'm sorry for your shit storm and that of Alias. I too have been fighting through the storm for a year now. I am working on rehabbing my marriage but am having trouble giving up the lifestyle. There is nothing better than banging a girl 40 yrs younger.

Alias, the other excuse that is reasonable is to act ashamed and admit that you wanted to masturbate in a condom for the sensation and cleanliness of it. A lubed hand job feels pretty good. Otherwise the thinking about an affair but haven't pulled the trigger yet might be enough of an honest revelation to make her rethink what she needs to do to make you happy.

Re: getting into this, don't do it unless you are ready to toss the marriage (and lifestyle) away. As the guys have said, you will be caught if you continue long enough.

**AllStar1980** · 07-10-13 11:27

Originally Posted by John G Smith [View Original Post]

I want to start my post off by quoting the TV show The Wire:

'The thing is, you only got to fuck up once. Be a little slow, be a little late, just once. And how you ain't going to never be slow, never be late? You can't plan for no shit like this man, it's life. '

Well I finally was a little slow, a little late. Ironically just like AliasSM I left behind a potential damaging piece of evidence of my escapades.

My SO was cleaning my shorts and she found a hotel card (not a key) with the address and that had a room number written on it. It was actually left over from when I saw my Euro Baby many weeks ago. Most likely in the after-glow of that heavenly experience, I didn't properly clean out all my pockets of papers. So my SO discovered the card yesterday morning and confronted me on it. I denied, denied, denied. The card just had the hotel address and a room number written on there, but it didn't contain my name or have any date. It was a dangerous piece of circumstantial evidence, but it fell short of a "Smoking Gun" because it still couldn't place me at a time and place. The hotel itself was 30-40 miles away, so it wasn't exactly a place I could go easily on a lunch break or something (to her knowledge at least).

I simply I said I didn't recognize the card. I might have picked it up or been given it as a scratch piece of paper since the backside was blank. I denied any knowledge of the hotel and said I had a faint recognition of even having the card. When you get caught with evidence against you, THE FIRST 10. 15 MINUTES ARE CRITICAL! I acted calm but not dismissive either. I said I simply didn't remember getting the card and I could have even got it when I was with her out somewhere. I then suggested she do a google maps of the hotel. After that, I'm guessing that suggestion and my overall demeanor put her at ease. Her mood changed again to more upbeat. And then throughout the rest of the day she was actually in a very good mood and I was obviously careful not to ruin it. It hasn't been 24 hours so I don't know if I'm completely out of the woods, but after the first 10. 15 minutes, she never brought it up at all throughout the entire day. And she's the type of person who can't hide their emotions, so when she's mad / angry / disappointed, you'll know. As others have said, most SOs want to believe you. Denial will get you very very far but if you panic in that first 10. 15 minutes, the issue may not be pushed aside so easily.

Just like AliasSM, I've been seeing escorts and AMP girls off and on for close to a decade. I was never ever in serious danger of getting caught by SO. LEO was probably the biggest threat for exposure. But I've been in the Sugar World for just under 2 years and I finally had a very close call. I'd like to welcome new guys like John Handcock, but you should be warned as soon as you step into the sugar bowl, you've activated a hidden time bomb. The detonation time may be unknown, but it will go off at some point. That is certain. You just have to hope when it does, you just get hit with shrapnel or a non-lethal wound and it doesn't take off a limb or blow your head off. Meaning at some point, you're going to be a little slow and little late and you're going to leave some crucial evidence behind. It might be in the form of a hotel receipt, a condom, sugar phone, chat text, designer finger nail, a psycho SB, a STD from barebacking, and etc. There's so many moving parts that it's pretty much impossible to play this game for any length of time and not get scathed in some way or another.

Yes the sugar world has a bit of glitz and glamor of banging college hotties and young MILFs and having you're own personal stable. But before you jump in head first, you need to decide if you're married, are you willing to risk your marriage for this lifestyle? If you're in the sugar for more than 3-4 months, you have a 50% chance of exposure and / or suspicions by your SO. If you're in the game for more than a year, it goes up to damn near 90. Most of us are just happy if we can keep the suspicions low enough so the SO can look the other way. But one critical mistake can throw that out the window.

My point is Mr Handcock or any others new to the bowl, if you have a happy marriage that you don't want to tarnish, stay away from the bowl. This is a seductive but a very high risk activity. I think sometimes some of us vet members here need to do a better job of cautioning our new arrivals. The challenges aren't just in the pursuit of the SB pussy but also not destabilizing your home life in the process. If you have a home life that you want to preserve unscathed, think very long and hard before you decide to be a sugar daddy.

Couple of recent posts about being caught with circumstantial evidence. I guess we all need to plan ahead and have a decent explanation ready. Like the hotel card cover maybe something like " A guy I was doing business with, was trying to spice things up with his wife and they had a "date night" at a hotel. He stayed at this place. I thought maybe I would set up something like that for us. It was going to be a surprise".

I left a messenger open after a sexy chat with a young lady. She saw the entire history. I just said: Oh you discovered my fantasy. Sorry you saw that. You know I would never that in real life. And this shouldn't surprise you, you know I'm kinda of a perv. She was still, pissed and made snide remarks for couple of weeks. But life goes on. Be safe and plan ahead.

I knew a monger who gave his wife chlamydia, his excuse was "he was confronted by a woman at a gas station who desperately needed a ride to the next town, he was compelled and couldn't say no. She rewarded him with a BJ at destination, he tried to refuse but couldn't control himself". He was really doing his HYCB bareback and she had a couple of other friends who she was sharing the same favors with. Life goes on.

**Revvo** · 07-10-13 09:03

You need to read the entire thread for your own good and for your wallets sake.

The most I ever paid for a SB was 250 and that was for a first class ATF that would do anything for you and looked stunning. This was someone who made you feel like a king.

Now I am not the expert on getting them for real cheap, I keep it around 200 and some for 150. But the least I ever paid was for free, but that was when I was flying her to meet me and I paid travel expenses so my CPO was pretty good since we fucked and sucked a lot.

And I never ever gave one money up front. This is a scam. Sugar for sugar plain and simple. Keep looking. Do not negotiate that just makes them feel cheap and will hurt the experience.

Tell them how much and if they do not like it. Be polite and move on. Some will come back to you.

Revvo

**Revvo** · 07-10-13 08:57

Very good advice man. I understand what you are going through. It can be unnerving. And I too agree the risk is very very high.

I have had some people tell me that you will get caught. It is just a matter of time. And you are arrogant if you think you cannot get caught. I am not so sure about that.

The facts as I have stated them before are staggering. They say 50% of marriages end in divorce. But the rate of infidelity is much higher around 80. This means that if you are in a room of 20 married people 16 of them have or with have an affair. Well guess what. They are the women also. So does your wife suspect you are having an affair probably. Has she had a misstep or two? Maybe. 80% gentlemen! Do you think 80% of married people are screwing around and the SO does not know anything?

Another fact when women catch husbands in affairs 90% take them back. She wants to believe the best. I have discussed this with a couple of women who were divorced and had been cheated on. And they agree that is how they felt at the time. Marriage is a very flawed institution and somewhat of a disappointing fantasy. Men and women cheat.

I agree the odds are high. And hell I may get caught today. But I would not be doing this if I was sure I would get caught.

One of the things I do as a final double check is always stop my car at a nearby gas station and go through my pockets and car and throw everything away before I get home. It is amazing the things I find at that little stop.

Keep quiet. Don't brag to friends. Don't play anywhere near your neighborhood. Have a story ready if you run into someone you know with your baby. And do not change your habits. John G keep the same habits with your SO. Do not get too lovey or too distant. If you were only fucking her once a month. Keep doing it. But I will say for the long term you need to do her about once a week to keep the suspicion level down.

Be careful out there.

Revvo

**John G Smith** · 07-10-13 06:43

I want to start my post off by quoting the TV show The Wire:

'The thing is, you only got to fuck up once. Be a little slow, be a little late, just once. And how you ain't going to never be slow, never be late? You can't plan for no shit like this man, it's life. '

Well I finally was a little slow, a little late. Ironically just like AliasSM I left behind a potential damaging piece of evidence of my escapades.

My SO was cleaning my shorts and she found a hotel card (not a key) with the address and that had a room number written on it. It was actually left over from when I saw my Euro Baby many weeks ago. Most likely in the after-glow of that heavenly experience, I didn't properly clean out all my pockets of papers. So my SO discovered the card yesterday morning and confronted me on it. I denied, denied, denied. The card just had the hotel address and a room number written on there, but it didn't contain my name or have any date. It was a dangerous piece of circumstantial evidence, but it fell short of a "Smoking Gun" because it still couldn't place me at a time and place. The hotel itself was 30-40 miles away, so it wasn't exactly a place I could go easily on a lunch break or something (to her knowledge at least).

I simply I said I didn't recognize the card. I might have picked it up or been given it as a scratch piece of paper since the backside was blank. I denied any knowledge of the hotel and said I had a faint recognition of even having the card. When you get caught with evidence against you, THE FIRST 10. 15 MINUTES ARE CRITICAL! I acted calm but not dismissive either. I said I simply didn't remember getting the card and I could have even got it when I was with her out somewhere. I then suggested she do a google maps of the hotel. After that, I'm guessing that suggestion and my overall demeanor put her at ease. Her mood changed again to more upbeat. And then throughout the rest of the day she was actually in a very good mood and I was obviously careful not to ruin it. It hasn't been 24 hours so I don't know if I'm completely out of the woods, but after the first 10. 15 minutes, she never brought it up at all throughout the entire day. And she's the type of person who can't hide their emotions, so when she's mad / angry / disappointed, you'll know. As others have said, most SOs want to believe you. Denial will get you very very far but if you panic in that first 10. 15 minutes, the issue may not be pushed aside so easily.

Just like AliasSM, I've been seeing escorts and AMP girls off and on for close to a decade. I was never ever in serious danger of getting caught by SO. LEO was probably the biggest threat for exposure. But I've been in the Sugar World for just under 2 years and I finally had a very close call. I'd like to welcome new guys like John Handcock, but you should be warned as soon as you step into the sugar bowl, you've activated a hidden time bomb. The detonation time may be unknown, but it will go off at some point. That is certain. You just have to hope when it does, you just get hit with shrapnel or a non-lethal wound and it doesn't take off a limb or blow your head off. Meaning at some point, you're going to be a little slow and little late and you're going to leave some crucial evidence behind. It might be in the form of a hotel receipt, a condom, sugar phone, chat text, designer finger nail, a psycho SB, a STD from barebacking, and etc. There's so many moving parts that it's pretty much impossible to play this game for any length of time and not get scathed in some way or another.

Yes the sugar world has a bit of glitz and glamor of banging college hotties and young MILFs and having you're own personal stable. But before you jump in head first, you need to decide if you're married, are you willing to risk your marriage for this lifestyle? If you're in the sugar for more than 3-4 months, you have a 50% chance of exposure and / or suspicions by your SO. If you're in the game for more than a year, it goes up to damn near 90. Most of us are just happy if we can keep the suspicions low enough so the SO can look the other way. But one critical mistake can throw that out the window.

My point is Mr Handcock or any others new to the bowl, if you have a happy marriage that you don't want to tarnish, stay away from the bowl. This is a seductive but a very high risk activity. I think sometimes some of us vet members here need to do a better job of cautioning our new arrivals. The challenges aren't just in the pursuit of the SB pussy but also not destabilizing your home life in the process. If you have a home life that you want to preserve unscathed, think very long and hard before you decide to be a sugar daddy.

**AliasSM** · 07-10-13 05:15

Thanks for the variety of responses. I think the best one for me, had I been quick enough to respond with it when originally accused, would have been the "found it near my desk at work and picked it up quickly because I didn't know where it came from". Unfortunately, I am now too far into the deny, deny, deny routine to back up and try something different at this point.

But I do appreciate the responses. I'll just have to see how this thing plays out. If she starts telling her friends and family about it today and asking their advice, I'm likely going down the divorce road in the long term. If she tries to keep it to herself and eventually stops bringing it up, I may still have an outside chance of survival.

Funny though, other than the initial embarrassment about getting caught and the obvious financial impact, I don't know which option I would be better off with. Losing her would not be the end if the world, but losing my current lifestyle would certainly take some adjustment. Wish me luck as I struggle to get through all of this.

Originally Posted by Igor Mongorsky [View Original Post]

You could say honey, I am really frustrated with the once a month sex. I considered having an affair, but just could never go through with it.

**HollywoodGuy** · 07-10-13 03:16

Originally Posted by John HandCock [View Original Post]

Thanks guys for the responses, I see the picture a little more clearer now. Some info on me, I'm 60 years old, divorced for last 3years, and in fairly good health. I'm on no type of medication whatsoever and don't need the little blu pill. I'm located in WV and have a sugar allowance up to $1500 a month.

Now to pick your brains, what is the best way to go? Allowance or per visit. What is the minimum and maximum if per visit is decided on?

Since joining SD here are some of the request I have had. Had 2 22&24 from Columbus Ohio request allowance. Both had been SB before. One wanted $300 up front as a show of good faith and would send some dirty pics till we was able to meet. Had another from KEntucky ask for $150 before meeting to pay some bills. One from Pa who was an older lady wanted $300 at the meeting with guarantee straight to FC. She was also bring a GF to play. Pretty sure she was a pro, did Alot of research on her but couldn't find anything, could be utr. Also have seen several backpage girls with listings on there. One from pa-wv border who had previous SD that gave her $500 per visit. One from Va that got $1000 per visit zoning with $400-$600 shopping and all expense's paid for rental car, gas and hotel room.

All of these ladies are 150-300 miles away. Just had as writing this my first local girl contact me. 22 year old college student who has won several beauty pagents that wants an allowance.

So how does one determine their worth?

Start with $$ per visit till you get your game on. Then work your way down to $ a visit. Your good for 8 to 15 visits a month my man. Stay within 60 minutes drive time as much as possible unless you have some kind of driving fetish

**John HandCock** · 07-10-13 00:54

Thanks guys for the responses, I see the picture a little more clearer now. Some info on me, I'm 60 years old, divorced for last 3years, and in fairly good health. I'm on no type of medication whatsoever and don't need the little blu pill. I'm located in WV and have a sugar allowance up to $1500 a month.

Now to pick your brains, what is the best way to go? Allowance or per visit. What is the minimum and maximum if per visit is decided on?

Since joining SD here are some of the request I have had. Had 2 22&24 from Columbus Ohio request allowance. Both had been SB before. One wanted $300 up front as a show of good faith and would send some dirty pics till we was able to meet. Had another from KEntucky ask for $150 before meeting to pay some bills. One from Pa who was an older lady wanted $300 at the meeting with guarantee straight to FC. She was also bring a GF to play. Pretty sure she was a pro, did Alot of research on her but couldn't find anything, could be utr. Also have seen several backpage girls with listings on there. One from pa-wv border who had previous SD that gave her $500 per visit. One from Va that got $1000 per visit zoning with $400-$600 shopping and all expense's paid for rental car, gas and hotel room.

All of these ladies are 150-300 miles away. Just had as writing this my first local girl contact me. 22 year old college student who has won several beauty pagents that wants an allowance.

So how does one determine their worth?

**Igor Mongorsky** · 07-09-13 23:54

Originally Posted by AliasSM [View Original Post]

Well you all warned me and it finally happened. I've been playing in the sugar world for about 18 months now and prior to that for decades have been messing around with escorts and the massage parlor scene. If been a faithful reader of this forum for a long time and truly value the experience of the pros on this board.

I' been married for longer than many of you have been born, and all of this finally caught up with me this week. My SO found a condom in the washing machine after doing a batch of my laundry. Yes, it was a stupid mistake and I was totally negligent in leaving the evidence behind (it was at least a new one still in original wrapper) , but it is just me and her in the house and its hard to come up with a logical excuse as to how it got there.

Any assistance here would be appreciated. She is still talking to me, but just barely and is looking for a plausible explanation. She has no other reason to be suspicious, other than the usual tell-tale signs like late nights at work and an occasional business trip.

HELP!

You could say honey, I am really frustrated with the once a month sex. I considered having an affair, but just could never go through with it.

**Revvo** · 07-09-13 22:32

Love the name.

First I would say read the entire thread. It will take some time but is very entertaining and educational. I honestly consider myself still a novice at this. I started in February.

I can tell you that for me. This is not like regular dating I am married anyway. And it is not like hiring a pro. Which I have never done. But I have heard and read many of the stories and know that is not for me. Just sayin to each his own.

But this adventure can be the ride of a lifetime. Women are out there to fuck. And many of them don't mind having a little financial help with it. This has been going on for centuries all around the world. There has to be something to it right?

I can tell you from personal experience that I have gotten more pussy in the last 5 months than my entire life. I am in my early 50's also. I am not sure I would date a woman without the money because it maintains a certain separation that keeps it from getting too serious. And that is the main attraction for me is the emotional involvement. Kind of a delicate balance there.

I spent half the day today fucking and holding and cuddling and getting a awesome massage from a 26 YO very cute sexy northern European MILF that has had only 5 men her entire life. She is so sweet she will do anything for me. The first time we had sex she cried. Not because she was sad but she said she always cries with her first time with a man. Try getting that from a pro.

When it was time to leave to go back to the real world neither one of us wanted to go.

This can be a wonderful experience.

By the way if you just want to "date" women and just fuck them. You can actually do that on match. Com. I have several divorced friends who get so much pussy just "dating" them a few times and going on to the next one. So that can be done. But I am older and married. So this suits me for now.

And try having to juggle half a dozen women at $200 a pop and they each want to see you at least once a week. And you will see how complicated it can get.

That is the downside. Not as easy as it seems. I will most likely cull two more this week.

A few thoughts from deep deep in the sugar bowl. Hell the fucking sugar is about the bury me. LOL.

Revvo

**HollywoodGuy** · 07-09-13 22:05

Originally Posted by AliasSM [View Original Post]

Well you all warned me and it finally happened. I've been playing in the sugar world for about 18 months now and prior to that for decades have been messing around with escorts and the massage parlor scene. If been a faithful reader of this forum for a long time and truly value the experience of the pros on this board.

I' been married for longer than many of you have been born, and all of this finally caught up with me this week. My SO found a condom in the washing machine after doing a batch of my laundry. Yes, it was a stupid mistake and I was totally negligent in leaving the evidence behind (it was at least a new one still in original wrapper) , but it is just me and her in the house and its hard to come up with a logical excuse as to how it got there.

Any assistance here would be appreciated. She is still talking to me, but just barely and is looking for a plausible explanation. She has no other reason to be suspicious, other than the usual tell-tale signs like late nights at work and an occasional business trip.

HELP!

Do you guys still have sex? If not, it might be time for a heart to heart.

Or like lenny bruce used to say 'Never tell. Not if you love your wife. In fact, if your old lady walks in on you, deny it. Yeah. Just flat out and she'll believe it: "I'm tellin' ya. This chick came downstairs with a sign around her neck 'Lay on Top of Me Or I'll Die. ' I didn't know what I was going to do."

I got caught many times when I was married. My excuse was always the same. If you aren't going to take care of me I, ll find someone who will. Sorry if this advice sucks.

**Revvo** · 07-09-13 21:47

First thing you have to understand is your SO wants to believe you did nothing wrong. It is your job to help her through this.

Second is deny deny deny.

Tell her you saw it on your desk at work and stuck it in your pocket. Tell her you don't know where it came from. But whatever you do don't admit the truth.

And by all means do not tell her you were paying for pussy. That will duck you up.

Do not change your habits. And never give in until she catches you on top of the other chick. Most wives suspect something when their husband is cheating. But they let it slide or turn the other cheek. They do not want to lose their lifestyle.

Good luck.

Revvo