"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Zomby]

Zomby's post is a good description of an issue we all face: the extent to which emotions get involved in our sexual activity.

For what it's worth, I think for most normal guys, as in non-sociopaths, it's a matter of when, and not if, emotion becomes a factor. As I said, I have to at least like a girl if I'm going to consider having sex with her more than a few times.

I think emotions are to sex like flowers to spring. They pop up in all kinds of unexpected places.

And like flowers in spring, in my never any where near even the neighborhood of a humble opinion, make it even more enjoyable, even if I don't consider emotion to be a necessity.

/z

[Zomby]

I got the vasectomy after a close call. I love kids and would feel obligated. But certainly would want it planned and not by accident. So many girls want that monthly check and they don't give a shit who the dad is. And having it does lead to a lot more BB sex.

I got mine after my wife had our third child. Amazing how much more relaxed things are.

What started my SB and I on the bareback train was the rubber breaking one time, and her almost panicking because she wasn't on the pill. I told her not to worry, that I'd been shooting blanks since before she was in middle school, she basically said "why the fuck didn't you tell me that sooner? I *hate* these damn things." And the rest is history.

/z

[Revvo]

Let me just say she was talking about BB and birth control. But when we were in the FC she was the one asking for the cover. Of all the women I have fucked only two have asked for the cover my ATF and one other. So I consider her pretty careful about getting pregnant.

She has three kids and is 39 and been divorced before. She is not looking for another relationship just NSA which makes her ideal for me. She even did not want her youngest it was an accident.

But I agree need to be careful. And on the vasectomy thing. I would love to do that but you are right it may arrouse suspicion with the wife. Especially after the last stalker crazy be* incident. Wife is telling be she need her BC to regulate her period. Still a little doubt there. Have to be really careful.

Thanks for the advice guys. It is invaluable. Even thought about getting vascetomy under the radar.

Anyway new ATF is loving the fucking and so am I.

Be careful out there gents,

Revvo

[Graham111]

All of my SB's (12) have been ok with BB once I told them I was on birth control. Vasectomy. The one I worried about had an IUD so she was doing all others BB as well. Others were going condom route till I told them. A risk....sure. But to me so much more satisfying. On month 3 of new ATF, a 19 YO with a long hours job who needs a little help. So I provide it.

[HollywoodGuy]

I got the vasectomy after a close call. I love kids and would feel obligated. But certainly would want it planned and not by accident. So many girls want that monthly check and they don't give a shit who the dad is. And having it does lead to a lot more BB sex.

[West Central]

Be very careful about that, especially if SHE is the one who first brought it up. It's possible she's planning to get you on the hook for 18 years of support. Think about the problems that would cause. If you proceed along this path, then pick up some Plan B at the pharmacy and insist she take it in front of you after you do the deed.

A vasectomy is cheaper than most monthly allowances and financially is probably the best investment anyone planning on going BB could ever make. Of course, some can't do that (would probably raise the wife's suspicions, no?) but those who can, probably should.

I agree it's risky. Looking back it is amazing how many of my escorts, strippers and sbs were actively looking for a ring, or at least a support check, even from someone much older like me. I forgot there was 4th stripper. Mexican-American, oversize natural tatas, small hard ass, very narrow waist. 30 years old, an 8. She took me home with her a few times and we met in hotels. She didn't allow penetration."Not with a condom," she said. Naked, she would extend her legs and spread them wide apart in a shallow V and let me play with her as much as I liked. Then she jerked me off on her breasts. But no penetration with condom allowed. I assumed perhaps she was allergic to latex.

Ah, the old latex allergy. It's amazing how many strippers, babies, and just loose women in general are allergic to latex. I actually am allergic to latex, but I'll take an itchy rash that lasts a few hours over a lifetime of grief.

[Literal2]

I agree it's risky. Looking back it is amazing how many of my escorts, strippers and sbs were actively looking for a ring, or at least a support check, even from someone much older like me. I forgot there was 4th stripper. Mexican-American, oversize natural tatas, small hard ass, very narrow waist. 30 years old, an 8. She took me home with her a few times and we met in hotels. She didn't allow penetration."Not with a condom," she said. Naked, she would extend her legs and spread them wide apart in a shallow V and let me play with her as much as I liked. Then she jerked me off on her breasts. But no penetration with condom allowed. I assumed perhaps she was allergic to latex. I thought she might just be indecisive and need leadership. With my dick poised a quarter inch outside her open vagina I asked,"Does no mean no?" She said it did and I backed off."Guys always think I'm going to get worked up and let them come inside me, but I don't. Not with a condom." A year later I saw her again and she was all happy and frisky. She'd had a baby with a customer she met at her club.

[Spitfire]

She is talking about getting on birth control so we can fuck bareback. She really wants to spend time with me.

Be very careful about that, especially if SHE is the one who first brought it up. It's possible she's planning to get you on the hook for 18 years of support. Think about the problems that would cause. If you proceed along this path, then pick up some Plan B at the pharmacy and insist she take it in front of you after you do the deed.

[Literal2]

For me, there's a qualitative difference between spending time with her, exploring, cuddling, drowsing, playing and fucking and buying an hour of stripper / escort time in a hotel room. I've found that I like it ****if I can have the "special" time, I'm definitely going for it.

Zomby's post is a good description of an issue we all face: the extent to which emotions get involved in our sexual activity.

I only started mongering about 10 years ago, others have much more experience, but I find it's hard to predict quality of sex or emotional commitment based on labels.

Escorts. I've had the usual hard boiled, coked out skanks show up at my door when I've made the calls. Quite a few of them ripped me off one way or the other. And yet. My last infatuation was with a 27 year old Swedish illegal alien in LA, a 9. 5. She had silky skin, cascades of blond hair to her shoulder blades, a body like the young Monroe (see Playboy Magazine Issue No. 1). She had some idea she could escort without penetration. She always cried during the deed but then orgasmed like a nuclear bomb. I fell for her. I promised her 12K for the year if she could keep herself together. She couldn't. There was also a short 23 year old 8/9 brunette in Toronto who had never had an orgasm. I couldn't give her one although I tried hard. (She had some kind of tiny extra tendrils descending from her clitoral hood. Not sure what that means.) I foolishly told her I was single and she proposed marriage. She tracked me down through her agency and called up my wife in a fury. That's the last time I gave an agency my I. D. There was a 22 year old actress / model / dancer in NYC at $2K per hour. College grad. She'd be a trophy wife at any suburban gold club in the USA. Not your typical escorts. Emotions with escorts? You bet.

Strippers. I've known quite a lot of strippers. Most are doing it because they don't want to think of themselves as or be hookers. Many are quite inhibited about actual sex. I've had three relationships. A 23 year old newbie in GA who started stripping to put food on the table for her babies, products of an unwise marriage to the world's dumbest burglar (he videoed himself breaking and entering then lost the video and the police found it). Very pretty blond with a peasant woman's strong, compact frame and an unusually thick clitoral hood. She turned me down a dozen times but one day showed up and fucked my brains out, finishing with the best bbjcim ever. She too wanted marriage. Another was a 19 year old Hungarian dark haired beauty in New Jersey, tall and shapely. I asked her to be my mistress. She evaded for a while then agreed. Wild and crazy in her habits. Drink, drugs, all that stuff, she was a cutter (sliced her upper arms with razor blades). It didn't last. Finally was the best lap dancer ever. Another blond. 30 years old, probably only a 7, but she did magic in the VIP. Weaving, softly touching and insinuating, her pussy always an inch out of reach, she smelled like a million dollars. She gave me an erection hard enough to pound nails just by blowing in my ear. I pursued her. Come to my room. No, she said on three occasions. I stopped going to her club out of frustration. When I finally went back, she led me by the hand to a dark corner, took off my belt, pulled my waistband out and managed to lick the tip of my dick. I said, Elizabeth, are you going to take off your panties for me? She said yes. We met at a hotel a half dozen times that summer. She was engaged to marry a banker. A week before the wedding she called to ask for one last session because it meant so much to her, she said. Probably wanted a little spending money too. Anyway I declined. Was I emotionally involved with these girls? Sure.

Sugarbabies. Lots of different types, hard to make generalizations. A couple of office worker types were excessively detached emotionally which detracted from the sex. One was an alcoholic housewife with GPS who demanded exorbitant amounts in advance (she didn't get them). Of my two ATFs, one (27) was a lovely girl with native american blood who would be a 9 except for too much ink and exaggerated bolt ons. She was great company though. A true courtesan, she was a serial mistress to older men and kept each relationship going as long as she could. She didn't strike me as promiscuous and was unskilled in sex, quite passive, but I liked her a lot. The other had just graduated from college. Blond and slim, a 7 but for her youth which made her an 8, she was obedient in all ways in sex and quite pleasant to hang out with. I asked her why she was wasting her time with me. She said she didn't want to get attached at the moment and besides, a lot of young men she knew were gay. I had a handicapped girl, maybe a 5 but very grateful and passionate. I enjoyed it. Then there was my little truck driver, mid 30's, she worked at her job round the clock. She was a 6. In bed after we both came she held me close and we talked quietly for a while. She had lost her only child in an accident. She said she just needed to be with a man. I felt privileged.

I think emotions are to sex like flowers to spring. They pop up in all kinds of unexpected places.

[Literal2]

Revvo, your story is a good lesson for all of us who play this game. Yep, a significant number of the girls are wacko.

Thanks for the M&G tip. I never thought of it, for some reason. Probably because I focus on getting them to the FC. It has its drawbacks.

[Revvo]

Well gentlemen I am officially back in the bowl after a lot of hard work and very mixed results on SA. I was struck by the craziest most persistent and destructive bat-shit crazy freak assed *****. She stole my credit card and had my full name and used this to terrorize me and my family and tried to extort money from me. It did not work.

Anyway I seriously considered not returning to this risky endeavor. But my evolutionary imperative pushed me past my fear and I dove in again. This time on SD4M. And I must say I like it better. Sure I get propositioned by dudes from Ghana and Nigeria every day but there are real women out there and some are pretty fun. And my eyes are much wider open than before.

For example on a M&G I position myself in a place where when the POT comes up to the venue I can see her long before she sees me. If anything looks out of the ordinary. I bolt right there. No hello or goodbye. No trying to act like she is just fine weighing 80 lbs more than her photos. I'm gone.

And to my surprise with a lot more hard work and time out of my limited schedule. I have found what I think is a real winner. She is real ATF material 9 head 8 body, and easily a 10 personality. I am lovin it. And the feeling is mutual. She is very attracted to me and never fails to tell me so. She is so much fun to be with. She is talking about getting on birth control so we can fuck bareback. She really wants to spend time with me. Has a real job. Busy social life. Smoking hot 39 yo white MILF. By the way I have several others working. One is a model, and another is just as cute. And a MILF that is into total submission. But I don't have the time or the money for all of this maybe just one backup.

Life is good. Persistence is definetley key in this game.

Be careful out there. Crazy women are the most dangerous element of this game. Screen carefully and trust your instincts if you smell something off.

Revvo

[Hernando]

So easy when you know how! Thanks Jb

[Member #4290]

Anyone willing to refer me to instructions how to create the "quote box" when citing a segment of someone else's post? Either PM me or post for the few of us who don't know how to do this

Many thanks

Hey There,

Just hit the reply with quotes option under the original post and when the reply box pops up it will have the whole post you want to quote inside it at the top. Take out what you don't want in there by just highlighting and deleting, but be careful not to delete the commands inside the brackets at the beginning and end of the quoted text.

So endeth the lesson,

Hope it helps.

[Hernando]

Anyone willing to refer me to instructions how to create the "quote box" when citing a segment of someone else's post? Either PM me or post for the few of us who don't know how to do this

Many thanks

[John G Smith]

I generally look for long-term SB arrangements, but often settle for the short-term stuff. Finding a good long-term SB isn't easy.

Ok. For those that prefer a longer term situation a few questions.

1) How much a month do you provide as a stipend not including any extras.

With my ex-ATF it would vary. Sometimes I gave her 200 when we met in person, sometimes I gave her $0 in cash and just paid for dinner, movie, and hotel. But I would also send her money via Green Dot inbetween meets. It was pretty organic. For the whole month, it might be anywhere from 800. 1600. Though I'm working on a new SB that will be at the fraction of that amount.

In general, I like to get an idea of the SB's expenses and then calculate her monthly core needs. Sometimes the core needs are pretty modest compared to the fantasy allowance amounts they want.

With the short-term or new SBs, I try not to exceed 200 per meet. I'll occasionally do 300 if we can meet at her place. But 150 per meet is usually the sweet spot that I'm comfortable with.

2) If you do extras / gifts. What do you usually do?

I just pay attention to little things in conversation and then try to buy something relevant to that. It doesn't have to be expensive, but the thoughtful gesture increases the comfort level for the SB exponentially. And for holidays I will buy gifts. For my ex-ATF for Christmas, I got her an iPhone. It was 200, so it was basically the same as the normal amount I gave her, but she loved it more than the usual cash.

3) How do you handle the cash part. Direct deposit. Cash in hand. With what frequency. Weekly. Monthly?

I did a combo of cash in hand and green dot. But after recent experiences, I'm going to pull away from the green dot and introduce that later in the relationship if at all. For some girls it can work well so they don't feel like an escort. You basically reload the card before or after the meet, so you don't actually have to have an awkward exchange of cash in person. Even though SBs ultimately want the $$, some of them (especially the new ones) feel really weird about receiving cash right after you gave them a sperm deposit. The green dot method really helps with these girls. But for other girls it just becomes a way for them to keep asking for money without having to meetup (and goto the FC). So it ends up contributing to the eventual doom of your arrangement (basically what happened with my ex-ATF).

4) Do you require sexual exclusivity from your SB (or at least like being lied to about it. LOL)

[/quote]I'm a hypocrite, so yes. Or at the very least I like to have full disclosure with my long-term SB with who else she's banging. I like to go bare with my long-term SBs, so I like for their sexual activity to be reduced to known entities. Primarily though I ask to be her "exclusive sugar-daddy". I know most other sugar-daddies are sport-fucking multiple babies, escorts, and etc so I want my long-term SB to stay away from "high traffic" individuals. But if she's banging a boyfriend or long-term fuck buddy, then I don't care too much.

Plus for me, part of the appeal of sugar babies is that you're banging a young lady who isn't sexing up a multitude of guys who browse BP ads. At a given time, a real sugar baby is probably having sex with just 1-3 people. Her sugar daddy, her real-life love interest, and possibly a fuck-buddy (And if you're good enough in the sack, you can take over this roll as the sugar daddy). The mileage on a real SB is so far below an escort or UTR girl. So when I have a long-term SB, I like to make sure she stays low-mileage while we're together and I insist that I be her only sugar daddy. In return, I try to make sure I always cover her core needs. So as long as she makes me happy, she knows certain needs will be consistently taken care of.

After all, SBs also figure out pretty soon that finding a long-term reliable SD is very hard for them as well. It's not too hard for them to find one or two night hookups, but it's not easy for them to get something reliable especially between weeding out all the weirdos and creepers. That's why many SBs who are are on their "second try" are open to having a exclusive sugar daddy if certain monthly needs are met consistently. In my experience if you can provide at least 800-1000 per month cumulative, then that will get most girls (who are 6 to 8 in looks and live at home / shared housing) to be exclusive to you. That's enough to cover all their car, phone, and maybe even rent (w / roommates).

That's why it's good to pay in terms of "expenses" with these girls and even pay bills directly when possible. For example if you give a girl 200 in cash for her car payment, but instead she uses the cash to go on shopping spree, then she's still going to struggle with the car payment and she'll still act cash-strapped possibly hitting up another SD. But if you pay the car payment directly with a green dot, then the bill is definitely taken care of for the month and she'll actually feel her financial burden lifted because of you. You then become more valuable to her. Her bills are completely covered and she's getting more mileage out of her own money. Doing a little money-management for her can pay off big time.