Rants, Raves and Opinions AKA "The Octagon"

[SilkyWet]

I completely think it is out of be character to pass such slander around I'm sure he has better things to do then trash just one person he has been a very good support to me since my incident and I'm very grateful to him for listening to me when I needed to vent.

[PhatDaty]

I heard from three different providers that there is a gentleman (and I use that word very loosely) that is on the hunt for bareback full service. I won't name the gent, since it is hearsay at the moment, but he is a senior member.

I don't usually lecture folks on what they do in the hobby. I have always thought personal preference is a personal preference and WALDT is a concept we should all follow, however, bareback is where I draw the line, because it impacts all of us in the hobby. Being a guy that loves DATY, I don't ever want a creampie surprise, but it goes beyond that.

This isn't just about preference, it is about safety. Hopefully I don't have to provide the medical facts about just how reckless such behavior is. The three ladies told me they all declined. Sadly one of them said this dude became rough and profane when she showed him the door.

Ladies, I appreciate how you have to be careful, discreet, and watch just who and what you accuse people of. If this guy visits you and pulls his manipulation tricks, or gets physical with you, please understand that there are men on this board that you can trust and if you would like, we can form a posse and show this gentleman the error of his ways and if he doesn't listen to the voice of reason, there is always a good old fashioned military soap party.

I hope the gent in question is reading this.

Dude, cover up. If you want to practice bareback, get married, stay monogamous, and don't endanger the lives of the hobby community.

[Thorbane]

Why is it that people discuss these things, personal arguments, disagreements, airing of personal laundry and such, in a public forum? What ever happened to, if ya have a problem with someone, face to face discussion, or picking up the fricken phone and discussing it? Is it just me, or has the art and ability to have a "real" conversation been replaced with the need to be "heard" by the world? Are we really that lonely? Have we forgotten what "real" communication is all about? Sorry, no offense to anyone intended, just my rant in hopes that we all think about it.

CFG

Well not sure what Ally was trying to prove with her post. But I thought it was uncalled for for her to flame B in the open. And for what he PM some fellow members about how she runs her business. There has to be more to it the that. But I agree ally should have kept in private as B did. You did not see B getting on the boards flamming ally. But I have taken this to pm as long as it stays there.

[Cincyfunguy]

Why is it that people discuss these things, personal arguments, disagreements, airing of personal laundry and such, in a public forum? What ever happened to, if ya have a problem with someone, face to face discussion, or picking up the fricken phone and discussing it? Is it just me, or has the art and ability to have a "real" conversation been replaced with the need to be "heard" by the world? Are we really that lonely? Have we forgotten what "real" communication is all about? Sorry, no offense to anyone intended, just my rant in hopes that we all think about it.

CFG

[Thorbane]

You have your opinion, I have mine. Lets just leave it at that. I had every right to post what I did, and if you aren't okay with it, sorry. But I still stand my position. I enjoy spending time with you, and talking to you, but I won't put up with others trying to ruin my business or attempting to. Whether he was not flaming me or not, it doesn't matter. He was sending emails to clients basically trying to get them to not see me. VERY unprofessional in my eyes.

Ally

If you want to leave it as is I have no problem with that. But as you said sorry and I will stand by my position also. I also enjoy spending time and talking to you. And hope to do so here soon. Only time will tell if that happens. But I think was unfair of you to post what you did also.

[Thorbane]

Well after this posted he sent me an email, and I can forward that to you, and you tell me then if you still believe he doesn't talk about me or trash me. He never used to, but he has been as of late.

Well the PM you sent me were one sided at best. Meaning you took selected pm and not presented the whole story. Ok I sure there may have been exchanged of name calling it happens. But yeah I think there more to the story on your side then your telling. Probaly something to do with that party and some problems refering to that.

But to say B just started flaming you or bad mouthing you for no reason. Sorry I don't belive that and that would not be in charatcter ok there are people on the board who either like or hate B but no one here can't say that B does not keep it real and if he had a problem he let you know. You want to foward the email that fine.

[Thorbane]

So rumor has it, or rather it has been sent to me that you are sending emails to other hobbyists basically trying to ruin my business. What can't handle your own? I haven't bothered you, haven't said one word about you, because for one I am better than that, and two I don't stoop to highschool bullshit, but on this you went too far as to emailing other hobbyists whom might or might have not seen me. At any rate, your antics won't work, so keep trying. If you only knew so much more is going on, and you aren't "on top" like you claim to be. In fact I used to think highly of you, but A you call me out of my name, and B you now do this stupid shit.

I would like to know if you want to be so honest, how many other hobbyists received this very email.

Re: Plan be.

Can you imagine if leo gets ahold of her cel phone?

Credit card, Work place and personal information on anyone who calls her? WOW!

"I have a program that I put each client into, even if they are a ns / nc that lets me know next time."

Ally.

First of all, IF you would screen like I do, you would know that I use a SITE, not anything on my phone, to look up the info. And that is for MY safety, as tons of other providers use this same site. I am sure you have paid attention to the recent events, so we providers have to be very safe. And if a hobbyist has no references, I do verify his number with who he says he is, as well as work references. Also, I am very cautious about what I do, so I keep a database of said info. But doesn't mean it has YOUR info in it. It has a first name and that is it, and expenses incurred. Maybe before you go copying from forums I have wrote in, maybe you would've asked the question of what exactly I use it for.

I normally wouldn't even explain myself on this subject, but I just find it appalling that you would stoop to this level. But I guess your true colors are starting to shine through. This isn't the first email I have gotten. I can post the other one too, because it seems you have it out for me. I have done nothing to you. The transaction we had was a business transaction, but didn't completely work out the way it was supposed to. It happens. I am not God and I know you definitely aren't, so get off your high horse, and leave my name out of your mouth. This was the other email I got. I didn't post all of it but the last line to keep the one who sent it to me out of it.

Your old news here. Must kill you to see you are no longer the big man on the boards and folks won't take your shit anymore. Stick to ally and the druggie bitches.

Again, you must be showing your true colors, but mine are clearly shining on, and I am and always will be a true and honest person. Can you say the same?

I talked to B several times and he never once talked about you or any other provider on this board. Not sure who sent you the email or not taking side but I never had a problem with B and having a hard time seeing him doing what you claim.

[HelpMeRhonda]

Molly, I know exactly what you are talking about, have the same problem, if you ever need to don't hesitate to call or text me, I am always happy to give ref for my clients, keeps us all as safe as possible,

Rhonda

UGH! I am so sick and tired of all the drug addicts that do not check references nor return my requests for checks.

With a sexual predator on the loose, why do these girls not respond / act like they don't know what I'm talking about?

Are there any providers that keep track and provide references? I know that Silk, Chrissee, and Ally do, but is there anyone else? Please help me out girls.

Kisses,

MD

[MollyDaniels]

UGH! I am so sick and tired of all the drug addicts that do not check references nor return my requests for checks.

With a sexual predator on the loose, why do these girls not respond / act like they don't know what I'm talking about?

Are there any providers that keep track and provide references? I know that Silk, Chrissee, and Ally do, but is there anyone else? Please help me out girls.

Kisses,

MD

[Buster6914]

My 2 cents. A gift is just that, there should be no expectation or need for any reciprocation. It is just something the donor wants to do for the donee. A favor on the other hand is in response to a request. Favors should entitle one to expect that at some point in time there would be reciprocation should a need arise. The reality of it though is, at least in my experiences, that a favor done for a provider is generally not going to be reciprocated and should be considered a gift in the mind of the monger. Therefor, if nothing is expected in return there are no hard feelings or disappointments. If at some point a favor is returned consider it a bonus.

There is also a difference in being friends and in being friendly. One should always be friendly, unless you have been wronged in some manner. Friends are rare and valuable, cherish them if you are fortunate enough to have any.

[Pictraders69]

I agree with your accessment of 'gifting' and how it affects prividers as well as those doing the gifting. I for one, don't expect anything different from a provider friend than I would from any other friend that I choose to share my time and talents with. I could see his view as the equivolent of helping his brother move into a new house, but when it's time for him to move, the brother is no where to be found. But your view seems to be, if you didn't ask him to help you move in the first place, don't look for your help when he needs it? The litmus test applied to any gifting and any friendship should be the sincere and unconditional appreciation for each other, and that should include, going out of your way to retun a favor when that friend needs it. I have friends that I have known and loved for 40 years and I also have friends that I've only known for 40 days. I expect no more or no less from either group, but, among other things, one consistant reason why some friendships last for 40 years, is the unconditional availablity and appreciation for each others time and talents. The thing missing from your post seems to be the appreciation of the gifts that cost you the friendships in the first place? I'm not sure if it was an oversight or not, because I really do think you are a caring person, but there was no mention of your appreciation of any of the gifts that were offered? I found it amusing that your perspective focused on your perceived expectations of having to return a favor? You made it sound as if the gifts received were a larger burden than your time or talent? With no mention of what or how the gifts were received or whether or not they were appreciated and used, it's difficult to determine who, if anyone, is at fault here? If they were given and you had no use for them, it would make more sense that there may have been an attempt to solicit 'special' favors. However, if there was an implied agreement, to help you out, that a reciprocal arrangement would be made for something that you either requested or was in need of at the time, I think the gifter might expect to see at least some sort of appreciation, whether it be in the form of your availability, your services, or maybe even a simple thank you would suffice in many cases. You are a good person and I'm sure that you would never intentionally do anything to distance yourself from your clients, but sometimes we do things that hurt other people without realizing it? Perhaps it's not too late to make amends and reconnect with the 4 old friends, if they really were important to you in the first place? Good luck to you, I know you mean well.

First thing that caught my attention is saying when a client gives us something we "providers" never take it at face value an always think they want something in return. Man oh man! It feels Invigorating to hear another soul say those things! I'm guilty of just that! But I will say this, I have YET to meet a single person, be it a client or man in general, EVER give something out the goodness of their heart. It's sounds terrible and judgmental I'm sure. I don't think it was givin with the thought of return favors already in mind, I do believe there are good hearted people out here. I just think once they give a person a gift, it seems very innocent. Then if for any reason no matter if the very next day, or 4 months later, if that girl declines the requested favor, although that gift was considered " just that! It suddenly is the first thing that gets thrown in our face. I think when giving a gift some people unknowing DO expect to either be treated better than the others or may expect you to get them in above anyone else, or they expect you to look the other way when they cross the lines on what the provider sets as bounderies. I have tried to learn to say no, no matter how great the gift! We shud try to say, no thank you. I made mistakes where I really did think the gifts are genuinely just a gift, but it never fails! I end up not being capable of living up to the expectations of the gifter, an before I kno it I'm knees deep in guilt, getting the gifts dangled over my head. It's just best to just say no, no thank you. I've lost 4 TRULEY wonderful friends in only 4 yrs. All due to " gifts". We all should remember also, my idea of a gift may not be yours. What makes a gift just a gift? So this is my idea of a gift. A gift is something offered without ever had asked for. A gift is something another person approaches you with an offers with nothing requested in return AT THE TIME IT'S GIVING and beyond! If I asked for it? Or showed interest in it. Thn you Sho up with it, that's a bit if a favor, but I strongly suggest that you make your intentions upon hand over. Some people give a gift that wasn't requested, then after givin that gift, it's been opened an being used, thn you get a text or call saying, hey I'm glad you like that gift, I knew you would I figured hey you scratch my back I scratch yours. Now your left in the position of not wanting to look like a mean or ungrateful person so you go along with it in hopes it all works out. It never does. I miss those people. I'd offered to give back the gifts if I cud just have my friends back, I'm very sentimental, I do get attached easily. Not in a lovers crush way, but in a way where I feel like we are real friends. Not just business, business is the scheduled time. Anything before an after that, if I bother to talk hours with you, text about anything more than a session, your my friend in my heart. But then I too learn the hard way, where we stand As providers, when we cancel or run late, after knowing us for years. We can even be going thru something. But let us not complete that massage or fantasy they are so looking forward to, we find out in a sharp, stab in the heart to bring ya back to reality, we mean nothing to these guys if not on time, looking, smelling great an long as we do the job expected. The worst of it though, we have to force our selves to not care. I don't care what these ladies tell you, it's impossible, we play the role of the perfect professional, we will argue that we never get attached. It's just not true, when you've known someone for months, heard about his life, problems, feelings. You can't help but wonder if they made the long drive home ok, but we are not allowed to call and ask. We wonder how those medical test came back you was so worried about, well we worry too but we don't get to kno until you come back. What if you don't come bac because you went to someone new or an old favorite. Then we REALLY worry! Because we don't kno? All we kno is you left for major medical an we never heard from you again. You kno how we end up finding out your just fine? When another provider calls to check your references. Yup. So please all remember, a good girl wud never tell, never hunt, never ask, but you just can't expect the good ones to not care, they wouldn't provide that caring, emotional or intense session if they can just block you out. Expecting good manners is the most I ever expect. I've learned.

[Member #4335]

I think it is difficult to have "friends" in the hobby. Most of these girls are distrustful (at times for good reason) and have a hard time accepting a gesture at face value. More often than not it is given with expectations.

I have not gone through the experience you have described but have expressed an interest outside the hobby with someone. I have met some of her friends and thought we had some common interests. In reality what we are forgetting is most are here for one reason and that is the cash. Although many are good at making you feel special there is no genuine sincerity in the exchange they just want you to return for business purposes. I think we at times forget this is their business and most people (including me) do not wish to spend their free time working off the clock.

I will say it is easy for me to get confused at times. I have lived my life with the belief: 1 You have nothing to lose by being appreciative. 2 Your future will be determined in a big way by the people you come to know. This would explain why some people keep looking for help. They have never formed proper relationships. It is not all bad though. The truth is I do not want anything but a business relationship with most of the people I meet here. That is the reason we see these girls. I am not interested in a girlfriend. Every night I go home to someone who really cares about me. This is just a hobby, and yes sometimes we want to much.

First thing that caught my attention is saying when a client gives us something we "providers" never take it at face value an always think they want something in return. Man oh man! It feels Invigorating to hear another soul say those things! I'm guilty of just that! But I will say this, I have YET to meet a single person, be it a client or man in general, EVER give something out the goodness of their heart. It's sounds terrible and judgmental I'm sure. I don't think it was givin with the thought of return favors already in mind, I do believe there are good hearted people out here. I just think once they give a person a gift, it seems very innocent. Then if for any reason no matter if the very next day, or 4 months later, if that girl declines the requested favor, although that gift was considered " just that! It suddenly is the first thing that gets thrown in our face. I think when giving a gift some people unknowing DO expect to either be treated better than the others or may expect you to get them in above anyone else, or they expect you to look the other way when they cross the lines on what the provider sets as bounderies. I have tried to learn to say no, no matter how great the gift! We shud try to say, no thank you. I made mistakes where I really did think the gifts are genuinely just a gift, but it never fails! I end up not being capable of living up to the expectations of the gifter, an before I kno it I'm knees deep in guilt, getting the gifts dangled over my head. It's just best to just say no, no thank you. I've lost 4 TRULEY wonderful friends in only 4 yrs. All due to " gifts". We all should remember also, my idea of a gift may not be yours. What makes a gift just a gift? So this is my idea of a gift. A gift is something offered without ever had asked for. A gift is something another person approaches you with an offers with nothing requested in return AT THE TIME IT'S GIVING and beyond! If I asked for it? Or showed interest in it. Thn you Sho up with it, that's a bit if a favor, but I strongly suggest that you make your intentions upon hand over. Some people give a gift that wasn't requested, then after givin that gift, it's been opened an being used, thn you get a text or call saying, hey I'm glad you like that gift, I knew you would I figured hey you scratch my back I scratch yours. Now your left in the position of not wanting to look like a mean or ungrateful person so you go along with it in hopes it all works out. It never does. I miss those people. I'd offered to give back the gifts if I cud just have my friends back, I'm very sentimental, I do get attached easily. Not in a lovers crush way, but in a way where I feel like we are real friends. Not just business, business is the scheduled time. Anything before an after that, if I bother to talk hours with you, text about anything more than a session, your my friend in my heart. But then I too learn the hard way, where we stand As providers, when we cancel or run late, after knowing us for years. We can even be going thru something. But let us not complete that massage or fantasy they are so looking forward to, we find out in a sharp, stab in the heart to bring ya back to reality, we mean nothing to these guys if not on time, looking, smelling great an long as we do the job expected. The worst of it though, we have to force our selves to not care. I don't care what these ladies tell you, it's impossible, we play the role of the perfect professional, we will argue that we never get attached. It's just not true, when you've known someone for months, heard about his life, problems, feelings. You can't help but wonder if they made the long drive home ok, but we are not allowed to call and ask. We wonder how those medical test came back you was so worried about, well we worry too but we don't get to kno until you come back. What if you don't come bac because you went to someone new or an old favorite. Then we REALLY worry! Because we don't kno? All we kno is you left for major medical an we never heard from you again. You kno how we end up finding out your just fine? When another provider calls to check your references. Yup. So please all remember, a good girl wud never tell, never hunt, never ask, but you just can't expect the good ones to not care, they wouldn't provide that caring, emotional or intense session if they can just block you out. Expecting good manners is the most I ever expect. I've learned.

[Pictraders69]

Your points are well taken. I've had friends outside the hobby that have fallen out of favor for much the same reason. No one likes to feel they are taken advantage of and I always try to give to any relationship more than I expect in return. Unfortunately many couples, families, business partners, and friends begin to drift apart when either partner forgets that they also have some responsibility to see that relationship stays healthy. It seems that it happens more frequently, with those that could benefit the most (like many providers) from long, recurring friendships. She may not know I'm gone yet, but hopefully someday she'll realized her mistake and mend her ways before she disappoints another 'friend', LOL.

I think it is difficult to have "friends" in the hobby. Most of these girls are distrustful (at times for good reason) and have a hard time accepting a gesture at face value. More often than not it is given with expectations.

I have not gone through the experience you have described but have expressed an interest outside the hobby with someone. I have met some of her friends and thought we had some common interests. In reality what we are forgetting is most are here for one reason and that is the cash. Although many are good at making you feel special there is no genuine sincerity in the exchange they just want you to return for business purposes. I think we at times forget this is their business and most people (including me) do not wish to spend their free time working off the clock.

I will say it is easy for me to get confused at times. I have lived my life with the belief: 1 You have nothing to lose by being appreciative. 2 Your future will be determined in a big way by the people you come to know. This would explain why some people keep looking for help. They have never formed proper relationships. It is not all bad though. The truth is I do not want anything but a business relationship with most of the people I meet here. That is the reason we see these girls. I am not interested in a girlfriend. Every night I go home to someone who really cares about me. This is just a hobby, and yes sometimes we want to much.

[Fdx17]

I think I lost a dear friend today. Once again a result of excessive expectations. I won't mention any names because I truly like and respect this provider and want to continue to wish her well, despite our apparent grievence and different viewpoints. It is really unfortunate that when we do things for friends, the dynamics sometimes change. I'll not badmouth her, but it is unlikely that I will spend much more time waiting for her to return the favor. I will miss her, but I'm not sure that she will even know I'm gone? Just one more reminder to myself and others that extend themselves to friends of the hobby, that it's not easy to retain a friend, if you expect anything but disappointment in return.

I think it is difficult to have "friends" in the hobby. Most of these girls are distrustful (at times for good reason) and have a hard time accepting a gesture at face value. More often than not it is given with expectations.

I have not gone through the experience you have described but have expressed an interest outside the hobby with someone. I have met some of her friends and thought we had some common interests. In reality what we are forgetting is most are here for one reason and that is the cash. Although many are good at making you feel special there is no genuine sincerity in the exchange they just want you to return for business purposes. I think we at times forget this is their business and most people (including me) do not wish to spend their free time working off the clock.

I will say it is easy for me to get confused at times. I have lived my life with the belief: 1 You have nothing to lose by being appreciative. 2 Your future will be determined in a big way by the people you come to know. This would explain why some people keep looking for help. They have never formed proper relationships. It is not all bad though. The truth is I do not want anything but a business relationship with most of the people I meet here. That is the reason we see these girls. I am not interested in a girlfriend. Every night I go home to someone who really cares about me. This is just a hobby, and yes sometimes we want to much.

[Pictraders69]

I think I lost a dear friend today. Once again a result of excessive expectations. I won't mention any names because I truly like and respect this provider and want to continue to wish her well, despite our apparent grievence and different viewpoints. It is really unfortunate that when we do things for friends, the dynamics sometimes change. I'll not badmouth her, but it is unlikely that I will spend much more time waiting for her to return the favor. I will miss her, but I'm not sure that she will even know I'm gone? Just one more reminder to myself and others that extend themselves to friends of the hobby, that it's not easy to retain a friend, if you expect anything but disappointment in return.

Your disappointing experience with fronting the donation is not uncommon. In fact, I've grown to expect it. Over the years of practicing the hobby, I have become 'familiar' with many fine providers which I have shared adventures with. I have become friends with many, and shared an elevated level of trust with a few. There have been numerous occasions where a provider that I have seen, contacted me in a time of need. I'm sure every senior practicing the hobby has experienced the exact same thing. I have been asked for everything from a ride to work, money to keep the electric from being shut off, adding minutes to their cell phone, birthday gifts for their kids, diapers rent money, groceries, cigarettes, McDonalds, doughnuts and about anything else one could imagine. I have ran errands, painted rooms, installed appliances and provided many other services in areas that I am skilled at, to help a friend, in exchange for future considerations. I avoid getting cozy with those that appear to be 'users' so they are not included in the group of ladies I'm referring to. I wouldn't knowingly give a cash advance if I thought it was going to used to support a habit, although I'm sure that happens many times without my knowledge. These girls often have genuine legitimate needs, and I offered my assistance, as I would for any friend or neighbor that could use a hand. With the friends in question, I volunteered to help them out and they volunteered to provide future service, in a friendly nonbinding verbal arrangement. Unfortunately, they often (as in 99% of the time, fail to follow through in a timely manner and the gift I provided is soon forgotten about, and they eventually fall off the radar screen. I and I'm sure many others, have been guilty of being too compassionate when it comes to advancing a gratuity. I try to help them when I'm able, but after forwarding the gift or service, in consideration of future 'adventures', I have been disappointed 99% of the time. Of the 8-10 ladies over years of practicing the hobby, I have helped with a 'significant' advance (not to mention the countless small 'favors') , every single one was either unable or unwilling to be available when I tried to arrange my next visit and the next one and the next one. A few eventually made themselves available, but asked for additional 'compensation' for gas or to say that their rates have gone up since. I was disappointed mainly because I went well out of my way, often dropping what I was doing to help them when they needed it, not just when it was convenient for me. I was disappointed because they so often fail to show the same consideration of my time and generousity. In order to maintain my composure, I have come to the conclusion that anytime a lady asks for an advance of money, or anything else of value, including my time, to help her out, I expect nothing in return. That would include buying a 'package' deal that asks for the money up front for future visits. It has tarnished my view on the trustworthiness of the word of many of these ladies. In most cases, it has cost them, not only a reliable, helpful client, but a friend as well. So if you choose to offer an advance, expect nothing in return and you'll not be bitter or disappointed when they fail to reciprocate.

Coincidently. I have had three different providers (two in the past 18 months) contact me after having taken advantage of my generousity (and failing to follow up as was expected) , both in need of cash and wanting to see me, only to find out they were well into their pregnancy. I stayed in touch, but not being a preggers fan, I didn't partake. After the baby (s) were born, they asked for money for baby supplies. I no longer give cash or expect anything in return, but, for the sake of the baby, will be happy to drop off formula, diapers and wipes if that's what they need. These aren't necessarily bad people, they just don't do themselves any favors by asking for help, and not following through with their end of the deal.