"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Mr Strict]

I don't think it's completely fair to say that everyone's time is wasted. It absolutely is a waste of your time, and would be of mine if I was yet in search mode on this one. However, a compensated non-sexual relationship is certainly a legitimate goal, and there is a guy out there who wants exactly that, however ludicrous most, if not all, the posters on this particular forum would find such a thing.

I fixed that for you. A legitimate goal? Sure. A realistic goal? Not so much. I would classify this with finding Bigfoot:"We are pretty sure he's real because we've read about him on the internet". These POTs are lazy and looking to be paid for hanging around and breathing, nothing more. And isn't "a compensated non-sexual relationship" called marriage?

I do suspect, though not of experience in the Sugar Bowl, that M&Gs are, at some stage, a necessary component of verifying a POT's intentions with any certainty. Others might feel differently, I believe John G Smith does, but since what most of us want is essentially illegal in most places in this country, setting forth conditions in email, text, or even over the phone seems like a somewhat less than prudent course of action. Hell, even after all this time, my SB and I don't mention sex or money in our texts, though we do sometimes do some sexy talk on the phone. In my case, this is a holdover from dealing with strippers, but I think it applies in any area where you're talking about borderline, if not outright, illegal stuff. You just don't talk except face to face, and often, after both are already naked. (:

Verifying a POT's intentions and looks! How often has someone reported on the forum that the potential sb shows up 20 lbs heavier or 10 years older that the pic's she sends? The small blond 19 yo country girl turns out to be the chunky. 27 yo black haired goth."I just haven't updated my pic's lately." IMO, one can only go so far with text, email and phone calls. M&G's have there place. I personally want a face-to-face confirmation before moving forward and if all it costs me is the price of a drink or coffee, small price to pay. And who wants to be front page news when LE decides that this is the next big crime wave they must stop. Especially during the election season.

The 43 yr old profile is especially funny, and I doubt she will get much response to such an ad. I don't know what she is thinking and maybe she could have gotten away with a profile like that 20 yrs ago, but I really doubt it now.

I was around 20 yrs ago. That ad won't work now, wouldn't have work then and would never work! Jesus would have thought she was a total cvnt!

Stay Safe.

Strict

[Zomby]

P. S. I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade.

I don't think it's possible to avoid this over the long haul. Human males seem to be hardwired to morph sexual attraction into a certain affection, at the very least, over time. It's not something over which you can exert much in the way of conscious control. The best you can do is be careful about paying attention to the signs that it's happening.

After three years, I'm not even going to pretend that there's not a fairly significant degree of affection on my part for my SB. Is it love? If anyone has ever successfully defined that emotion, let me know. I'm sure some would call it that. I'm certainly not going to leave my wife for her, but there's quite a bit else I would do.

As for the other direction, I'm sure there's some, but she doesn't let it get in her way. (: Women don't seem to suffer from this problem to the same degree as men. (:

Though I'd be interested in hearing what the resident sugar baby has to offer on that issue.

/z

[Zomby]

Bear in mind that these comments are from one who's experience in this is limited to one person, albeit over a longer period of time. So take that for what it's worth.

When they start the "I'm seeking something non-sexual" line, I've learned to tell them politely but directly that they don't grasp how this works, they're wasting my and every other SD's time and to find some other way to try to make money. They seldom seem to get the hint, but let's face it. There's a certain level of selfishness in everyone who does this on both sides of the sexual divide, so it's to be expected.

I don't think it's completely fair to say that everyone's time is wasted. It absolutely is a waste of your time, and would be of mine if I was yet in search mode on this one. However, a compensated non-sexual relationship is certainly a legitimate goal, and there are guys out there who want exactly that, however ludicrous most, if not all, the posters on this particular forum would find such a thing.

SubCmdr has some good guidelines in his response to this one; if the significant sugar doesn't flow until her sugar flows, it's less likely that these "platonic" types will take you for more than, as he suggests, coffee or drinks.

I do suspect, though not of experience in the Sugar Bowl, that M&Gs are, at some stage, a necessary component of verifying a POT's intentions with any certainty. Others might feel differently, I believe John G Smith does, but since what most of us want is essentially illegal in most places in this country, setting forth conditions in email, text, or even over the phone seems like a somewhat less than prudent course of action. Hell, even after all this time, my SB and I don't mention sex or money in our texts, though we do sometimes do some sexy talk on the phone. In my case, this is a holdover from dealing with strippers, but I think it applies in any area where you're talking about borderline, if not outright, illegal stuff. You just don't talk except face to face, and often, after both are already naked. (:

/z

[Dog Rice]

Woow. 40+ GPS.

I experienced 3 40+ GPS. Not sure what they are thinking. One of them requested me to provide my work information before M&G because she does not feel safe.

[ILikeHotWomen]

Did these "babies" have the same profiles before you met up with them? All the "friendship" first, but I still want cash sounds like they are trying to tease and get paid, which I have to admit is smart on their part in getting more $$ out of people. It does seem like a lot of them give the impression that you are going to have to pay awhile first before you get anything. The 43 yr old profile is especially funny, and I doubt she will get much response to such an ad. I don't know what she is thinking and maybe she could have gotten away with a profile like that 20 yrs ago, but I really doubt it now. As for the sb profile I have for entertainment / educational purposes, I have now had about 40 emails, mostly from married types, and nothing out of the expected except for the one I posted earlier.

Having been burned by several of these "no sex" types, I've learned to read the signs a bit.

Lately, any girl under 25 or so seems to be a candidate; the word seems to have gotten out on the areas where young women congregate that they can find men willing to pay them just to be arm candy. Any girl that talks about "just having fun" is somewhat suspect. A lot of these youngsters define "fun" as clubbing / dancing / out-on-the-town, and don't grasp that (at least here) there's generally more stigma than benefit in a 50-something guy being seen by his peers in public with a girl half his age. But the #1 tell with this type seems to be when they say something to the affect of,"I'm brand new at this and don't really know what to expect." One girl admitted to me that she had read on a SB board that such a line was a safe way to lead into a non-sexual connection, and their attitude seems to be that at a minimum they get a free meal out of it so it's no skin off their nose. A couple have said things like,"any relationship takes time to get to intimacy!" (to which I remind them that this is *not* a relationship, it's an arrangement. We're seeking one thing, and sugar is a shortcut past the time, work and drama of getting to that one thing; if they're not fully on board with that, they have no business in the sugar bowl.) And while almost all are young, not all are; I had one mid-40's lady give me that dance.

When they start the "I'm seeking something non-sexual" line, I've learned to tell them politely but directly that they don't grasp how this works, they're wasting my and every other SD's time and to find some other way to try to make money. They seldom seem to get the hint, but let's face it. There's a certain level of selfishness in everyone who does this on both sides of the sexual divide, so it's to be expected.

Here's a few SA member #'s that I've personally confirmed of that type:

1213926.

1209679.

1198801.

1187973.

1132844

[CantWinLosin]

And then there is this:

1187973.

LOL! I talked to this one. Typical redneck princess, thinks her sh! T is rainbow colored and her puss made of gold. She's been on the site for at least 6 months, and admits in her profile she's met only one "loser". My guess is that she's too stupid to figure out why she's getting no interest.

[F Scott]

P. S. I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade.

Sub,

As I see it, you have two choices at this point - pull back and hope to avoid heartache down the line, but possibly at the expense of some really fantastic times, or damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! As one who knows, the pain is intense when the end finally comes, but it does diminish with time. An old heart breaks into more pieces than a younger one, apparently, but it can still be mended.

As has been said, may the god of the Sugar Bowl have mercy.

Scott

[Mr Strict]

All questions about what is expected is met with the response "We are both adults here. And I am looking for adult companionship." Straight up! You don't have to say it. The implication that the arrangement involves intimacy and without intimacy there is no sugar. If they need time to develop intimacy tell them to get on a regular dating site. If you don't give them anything useful up front (like a nice dinner out) then the M & G becomes what is should be: A job interview. Or you can look at it another way: It is the pot SB's job to convince you their pussy is the pussy for you. As a SD you have limited time and sugar. I do not allow fake SB's to waste my time or my sugar.

I'm the bank. They want a loan. All loans require collateral. Their pussy is just a invitation for me to return to make another loan. If they don't keep the banker happy then their line of credit is cut off.

This. I cannot agree more with the Commander. They are interviewing for a position, period. And they should be made aware of that and proceed accordingly. I do not and will not pay someone to interview them. If they are looking for payment at the first M&G, beyond a drink or coffee, what does that say for how any arrangement would be handled? And all of our time is valuable and in short supply, so, don't give me that excuse. Would she say that to the bank if she were getting a car loan? Highly doubt it. Now, this doesn't mean one should not conduct themselves like a gentleman. Not at all. But when the talk turns to "payment by the minute", I immediately give the "Good luck" and she is kicked into the heap. If she changes her mind later, we can talk. But I move on immediately.

Having said all of that, YMMV most definitely. I'd be a little wary of ignoring a pot SB completely because someone here posts their profile I'd. Sometimes a girl may be "no-sex" with one SD but will be willing to go to the FC with another. Your game, your physical appearance / hygiene, and your allowance offer can all play a part if a SB is willing to be intimate with you. Remember we're also being evaluated, and some SBs may make the determination they may only be willing to be your arm candy because you didn't present yourself well. In other cases, if they click well with you, they'll be willing to be intimate and accept a more realistic allowance. I know this is the case because I've had several SBs tell me they do this and I've experienced it first hand.

I agree with this but suggest taking it a step further. Just because something didn't work out is one thing. Let the next guy give it a shot. It's the scams, flakes, no-shows and total train wrecks that we should post, in my somewhat humble opinion. And then there is this:

1187973.

Wow. Honestly, would any in the brotherhood want to get wrapped up in this? Lives in BF Virginia, is at least 50 (listed 43, so, add at least 8) , you ain't getting laid because she's not a "WH@RE"", a total nando-1 with stretch marks and comes across as a total cvnt in her post! It would be like paying by the minute to be with my ex-wife. *shudder*

SubCmdr out.

P. S. I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade.

You poor bastard. May the god of Sugar have mercy on your soul.

Stay safe.

Strict

[Rainjam]

Dude you are funny as hell. Good job in detailing the rules. We need someone like you in the west coast as the rules you describe may not work in the SB capital of the world that is Los Angeles. I will have to read your posts to get better at the game as I am not in the SB yet but I am a 1-year graduate of the CL non-pro game. My observation is that the rules and best practices that you describe are similar to those in the nonpro game but with SBs, the stakes are higher the players are a lot more savvy.

I have run SB's on both coasts and down south. I have never lost more than drive & meet time along with the cost of a coffee or a drink with a pot SB. I tell all my pot SB's first meeting is over coffee or drinks. I loose a lot right there. That screens out the wannabes and the ones with GPS. In addition, I make them come to me. They must be willing to invest at least some time and energy into the arrangement. If they need me to pick them up then we are going straight to the FC. I've only had one pot SB come to the FC and then not want to put out. I sent her on her way with no sugar. I have been in the FC with a SB. We were both naked and she starts giving me restrictions and I'm not feeling it and have got up and left. No sugar. (Yes, she called me back and asked me to give her another chance)

P. S. I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade.

[John G Smith]

I have very similar screening to Subcmdr's. In fact I take it a step further, because my schedule and time is so limited, I don't even bother with a M&G with a pot SB unless she's already indicated she knows the real deal of a "mutual" beneficial arrangement. I don't believe in giving these girls free meals unless there's some actual potential. So over email / txt, I usually somewhere work it into the conversation that I need to mostly meet "behind closed doors". This tells the girl that we won't be clubbing around town or be activity buddies."No-sex" SBs usually ask,"what exactly would we be doing?" If they have to ask this, then usually it's a bad sign. However if the girl is okay with the idea of "Behind Closed Doors" and being "discreet", then usually she's down for the FC. Then the next step is determining whether if she has GPS or not. I generally ask if she's working, does she live at home, and etc. Then I might ask what bills she's looking for help with. I sometimes may make an offer at that point. She either accepts or rejects the offer, but it's over txt / email so I'm not out any money or time with a pointless M&G.

I recommend more of my brothers do more of your screening over txt / email. Let's stop giving free meals to girls who have a warped sense of what a "mutual beneficial arrangement" is. These girls need to understand that "arm candy" is someone who is very attractive and maybe just 7-12 years younger than us. Walking around with a girl who is 20-30 years younger than us, isn't "arm candy" that's basically walking around with our daughters. We're not going to pay 2-3k per month to do that. So let's just do M&G with pot SBs that already know what an "arrangement" means and leave the other girls at home alone broke and hungry. Maybe once when no SD will meet them for a M&G, they'll finally understand what the site is for. They'll either start playing by the rules of the Sugar Bowl or go back to Match. Com.

Having said all of that, YMMV most definitely. I'd be a little wary of ignoring a pot SB completely because someone here posts their profile I'd. Sometimes a girl may be "no-sex" with one SD but will be willing to go to the FC with another. Your game, your physical appearance / hygiene, and your allowance offer can all play a part if a SB is willing to be intimate with you. Remember we're also being evaluated, and some SBs may make the determination they may only be willing to be your arm candy because you didn't present yourself well. In other cases, if they click well with you, they'll be willing to be intimate and accept a more realistic allowance. I know this is the case because I've had several SBs tell me they do this and I've experienced it first hand.

So keep that in mind. If you've done your pre-screening through txt / email and she's given indications that she might be down for "behind closed doors" activities, then it's really up to you to seal the deal. And even in the pre-screening / initial txt / email conversations, remember to be a gentleman. How you communicate initially can significantly can affect the mileage you can get.

[Hernando]

Thank you guys for the no go list. I sorted through them and the verbiage is amusing to say the least. It makes us realize how much time is wasted with girls who will never be a viable candidate for the FC. Most of those girls are pretty attractive and its tough to be disappointed thinking that they are pots.

" I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade." Commander, you could be keel hauled for this ill advised move! Be prepared for heart break. Just ask Scotty and me about that. If you think girls are the only ones who get all emotional about an affair just look within these walls.

Tonight I'm going for a sure thing. My ATF escort is popping over for a little polishing of the underused apple. Yayy me! I'm thinking it might be worth the freight.

[SubCmdr]

I have run SB's on both coasts and down south. I have never lost more than drive & meet time along with the cost of a coffee or a drink with a pot SB. I tell all my pot SB's first meeting is over coffee or drinks. I loose a lot right there. That screens out the wannabes and the ones with GPS. In addition, I make them come to me. They must be willing to invest at least some time and energy into the arrangement. If they need me to pick them up then we are going straight to the FC. I've only had one pot SB come to the FC and then not want to put out. I sent her on her way with no sugar. I have been in the FC with a SB. We were both naked and she starts giving me restrictions and I'm not feeling it and have got up and left. No sugar. (Yes, she called me back and asked me to give her another chance)

Most SB's are looking for money.

Some are looking for the adventure.

Some are looking for sex.

A very small percentage are looking for a relationship.

All questions about what is expected is met with the response "We are both adults here. And I am looking for adult companionship." Straight up! You don't have to say it. The implication that the arrangement involves intimacy and without intimacy there is no sugar. If they need time to develop intimacy tell them to get on a regular dating site. If you don't give them anything useful up front (like a nice dinner out) then the M & G becomes what is should be: A job interview. Or you can look at it another way: It is the pot SB's job to convince you their pussy is the pussy for you. As a SD you have limited time and sugar. I do not allow fake SB's to waste my time or my sugar.

I'm the bank. They want a loan. All loans require collateral. Their pussy is just a invitation for me to return to make another loan. If they don't keep the banker happy then their line of credit is cut off.

As always, these methods work for me. They may not work for everyone. But I stepped in to the sugar bowl Jan 2012 knowing nothing. Everything I have learned about the Sugar Bowl has come from what I have read and what fellow forum members have taught me. I then crafted the methods I now use from my actual experiences and modified them to get what I am seeking.

SubCmdr out.

P. S. I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade.

[Dog Rice]

Hsrams,

Thanks! I am in San Diego, CA. Definitely a lot of Pros, but I was able to filter them out via several emails (Thanks for SubCmdr's mentorship!) Definitely a large variety expectations from SB.

Got a 37 Fat (her tummy sticks out more than her boobs). Asked for 3-5k / mth. WTF. Tons of hot pros are better than such pot.

Agreed about sharing some of the SA. Here are SA# I would avoid (either scam for a meal or no-sex or no-show) :

1209905.

1158310.

1189420.

1073424.

1190716.

1201777.

As always YMMV.

Dog, I don't remember reading where you are from, but this SD hobby can be especially trying some time here in Richmond. I don't know if some of the other locations around the country are better or worse, but around here it seems like a high percentage of SBs on the site are pro, and at the other end, a high percentage want a relationship without sex. I think most SD expectations are pretty straight forward, but the SB expectations of an arrangement are all over the board. I find myself wasting a lot of time with M&Gs, only to find that the POT is on the site just to collect some spending money with no intent of ever going to the FC.

Just recently, I had a M&G with a 20 YO AA POT that was very beautiful VCU student with a great head on her shoulders. Very smart and very good conversationalist. When it got down to a discussion about physical contact, she said she was OK with some nudity and dry massage, but could never no FS or oral because she was saving herself for marriage. I respect that decision, but WTF is she doing on the SA site? I think we should start sharing some of these profile numbers on this forum just to allow forum members to save some screening time (not to mention money). This is a beautiful young lady and I have nothing against her, just that I wasted time and money on another dead end. For those that want to save the time, she is profile # 1215794 on the site. If you want a beautiful date with good conversation, give her a try. Of course as always. YMMV.

HS.

[CantWinLosin]

Having been burned by several of these "no sex" types, I've learned to read the signs a bit.

Lately, any girl under 25 or so seems to be a candidate; the word seems to have gotten out on the areas where young women congregate that they can find men willing to pay them just to be arm candy. Any girl that talks about "just having fun" is somewhat suspect - a lot of these youngsters define "fun" as clubbing / dancing / out-on-the-town, and don't grasp that (at least here) there's generally more stigma than benefit in a 50-something guy being seen by his peers in public with a girl half his age. But the #1 tell with this type seems to be when they say something to the affect of,"I'm brand new at this and don't really know what to expect." One girl admitted to me that she had read on a SB board that such a line was a safe way to lead into a non-sexual connection, and their attitude seems to be that at a minimum they get a free meal out of it so it's no skin off their nose. A couple have said things like,"any relationship takes time to get to intimacy!" (to which I remind them that this is *not* a relationship, it's an arrangement. We're seeking one thing, and sugar is a shortcut past the time, work and drama of getting to that one thing; if they're not fully on board with that, they have no business in the sugar bowl.) And while almost all are young, not all are; I had one mid-40's lady give me that dance.

When they start the "I'm seeking something non-sexual" line, I've learned to tell them politely but directly that they don't grasp how this works, they're wasting my and every other SD's time and to find some other way to try to make money. They seldom seem to get the hint, but let's face it. There's a certain level of selfishness in everyone who does this on both sides of the sexual divide, so it's to be expected.

Here's a few SA member #'s that I've personally confirmed of that type:

1213926
1209679
1198801
1187973
1132844

[Hsrams]

Dog, I don't remember reading where you are from, but this SD hobby can be especially trying some time here in Richmond. I don't know if some of the other locations around the country are better or worse, but around here it seems like a high percentage of SBs on the site are pro, and at the other end, a high percentage want a relationship without sex. I think most SD expectations are pretty straight forward, but the SB expectations of an arrangement are all over the board. I find myself wasting a lot of time with M&Gs, only to find that the POT is on the site just to collect some spending money with no intent of ever going to the FC.

Just recently, I had a M&G with a 20 YO AA POT that was very beautiful VCU student with a great head on her shoulders. Very smart and very good conversationalist. When it got down to a discussion about physical contact, she said she was OK with some nudity and dry massage, but could never no FS or oral because she was saving herself for marriage. I respect that decision, but WTF is she doing on the SA site? I think we should start sharing some of these profile numbers on this forum just to allow forum members to save some screening time (not to mention money). This is a beautiful young lady and I have nothing against her, just that I wasted time and money on another dead end. For those that want to save the time, she is profile # 1215794 on the site. If you want a beautiful date with good conversation, give her a try. Of course as always. YMMV.

HS.

Bros,

After on SA for 3 weeks or so, I got 7 M&Gs, and scored 2 SBs. One SB was in adult film industry for a while (27 hot blonde) , and another was an 18 black.

For 27 yrs old hot blonde, the experience was pretty good. Until. While she was BBBJ, I was saying "Want to come in your mouth". She responded w/"Not with $$.5". I completely lost my mood, and quickly done w / it, and get the hell out of there. She contacted me back, and I told her I am not interested. She is not that cheap, and I don't need such attitude while I can get a better service (and hot blonde) going w / Pro.

For 18 yrs old black, the experience was pretty good (again) until. After done w / the 1st round (deadfish experience) , she was dressing up in a lighting speed. And started playing with her phone. Although she is pretty cheap, is not fun. I expressed my frustration with her. She texted me back saying that she will make it up next time. I told her that I expect that she has passion and MSOG is expected. She responded back w/$$$$. I ignored her afterwards.

So far, all of the pots I M&G with are all about $, and not into real SB / SD experience. One pot was telling me,"I don't expect to have sex with you, and I expect each date to have $$$".

Still trying, but slow down quite a bit as Sugar Bowl is time consuming and the return is not great. (part of the fun). Pro is much easier