"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Literal2]

I go away for a long weekend, and this is what I come back to? I feel transported back to third grade; mom and dad are fighting again, and I'm terrified. I don't want them to get divorced, mainly because I don't want to go visit dad two weekends a month at his scruffy apartment in the city, like a couple of my friends*

I decided this morning to call it off. Clean break. I explained that the arrangement we had was no longer working for me and said we couldn't see each other any more.

Joe: while it can be tedious to air disagreements, sometimes it's necessary. Not every piece of advice is equally worthwhile. Some are likely to lead to trouble, and sometimes that needs to be pointed out.

As to your question, my view is that your best course is not to communicate any more. Period. In a break-up it is so easy to say the wrong thing or to be misunderstood it's usually better to try total silence after an explanation like you have already given. If it becomes evident later that you will have to deal with her, because she makes a threat, for example, you can work out the best response at that time.

Others will have a different approach. This is just my view based on my experience.

[JoesParty]

I go away for a long weekend, and this is what I come back to? I feel transported back to third grade; mom and dad are fighting again, and I'm terrified. I don't want them to get divorced, mainly because I don't want to go visit dad two weekends a month at his scruffy apartment in the city, like a couple of my friends.

Lucky for me, my parents worked out their problems. I hope people here can too.

Case in point: I have a situation where I'd like input from both sides here. I'll even state the question up front: Am I being cruel here? Do I owe my baby more?

I decided a couple weeks ago that I needed to stop seeing my unemployed SB (USB). Apropos of recent posts, I felt she was getting too attached emotionally, and, her being unemployed, she was depending on me too much for cash flow. I didn't want to risk any type of "in too deep" situation. I've been there before and emerged ok but didn't want to temp fate twice in one year.

I decided this morning to call it off. Clean break. I explained that the arrangement we had was no longer working for me and said we couldn't see each other any more.

The thing is, I did this by email. I didn't want to risk an ugly confrontation. I didn't want to have to answer any questions.

She eventually replied that she understands but wished I had "been a better person" and done this face to face. She also laid on a guilt trip about her roommate moving out and "depending on me."

I feel her response is trying to bait me into a discussion when all I want is to disappear. Do I owe her any more at this point?

On another front, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, Nando. Can you tell us more about how it happened and any subsequent discussions with your SO? That might help all of us. Regardless, you are playing with fire by running off to see the SB again. But you already know that. Maybe you needed to lay low for a while. We all needed to from time to time.

Joe

[Magic Rat]

Begging to get caught indeed, plus I think we have discussed addiction to our SBs on here before as well. I know I have taken chances that I would not have even considered before this woman came into my life. I've even gotten a few "you did what!" responses from both online and real friends, although I have been more careful lately, or maybe not. I don't use a burner phone, my SB has my real number, knows my real first and last name (she even signed the room service bill last time) , knows where I live, where I work, where wife works. So she could royally fuck up my life. However, she is not a Nando 1 (she's a MILF who enjoys the sex) , lives a couple hours from me, and does not have the revenge gene in her body I don't think. Who mentioned addiction again?

It's a slippery slope we tread here as married guys and the emotional involvement increases the risk exponentially, but oh the high we get! It also leads to sleepless nights, chest pains, lack of productivity at work, reduction in emotional involvement with spouse and family (we only have so much to go around you know). And that's if things go well and we don't get caught! When this current relationship ends, as we all know they will sooner or later, I don't see myself back in one like this again.

So for some of the newer guys on here, if that's what you seek in this endeavor. I'll say it again. Be careful what you wish for.

Magicrat

[Hernando]

Becoming E-involved with my SB is what precipitated my mess. I HAD to see her and spent way too much time doing so, therefore increasing exposure. When you spend 28 % of your life with someone it's hard to hide that fact. After it all came out I hustled up the road to spend the afternoon with my SB. This falls under the category of "begging to get caught ".again, but I am seriously addicted to her. She even told me that although she loves me I am not her forever guy, that she couldn't see herself bringing Gramps home to Mama and friends. (my word, not hers) Even so I am willing to throw caution to the wind.

This sounds like an aquaintance who was a recovering Heroin addict. He said that the high is like nothing he has ever felt before and would do anything to experience it.over and over again to the exclusion of his health, wellbeing and financial security.

So my brothers and sister, tread carefully when you are falling for your SB. It is unbelievable but OH so dangerous.

[Literal2]

I'm sorry that Nando got caught, but I'm grateful he told us about it.

I had believed he was unmarried and so his growing attachment to his ATF SB could have had a happy outcome. One of the risks for married dudes of playing around with SBs is that you can get attached. Several of us have discussed this in the past but it bears reinforcing for new players.

I don't know how many mongers on here have been through a divorce but I imagine quite a few. It is one of life's absolute worst and most expensive experiences and therefore to be avoided unless absolutely necessary. When you meet someone you fall in love with outside your marriage, it can become necessary and you accept the pain and suffering because you want to be with the one you love. However, often enough a divorce is initiated by a wife who has found her husband fooling around. The husband may not want a divorce, or may not want to go through the pain and expense.

One reason many on this thread have cautioned against emotional involvement with SBs is because if you aren't careful it can lead to pain. Pain when the SB leaves you for some guy who's not paying her to stick around. Pain when your wife finds out and hires a divorce lawyer. There are those who say everyone gets caught, but that's just not true. You can reduce your chances of getting caught.

These are the reasons the thread discusses the precautions needed to reduce discovery by the SB of your true identity. The risk of disclosure is that the SB will get ideas of blackmail or revenge by contacting your wife if you ultimately decide to leave. How to avoid such situations and how to deal with them if they do occur is another subject discussed in many posts on this thread.

Whether or not you are not a married guy and just want to play around with girls on a sugar for sex basis but reduce the chance that you will run afoul of prostitution laws, SBs have some advantages over pros, chief among them being many of them do not believe they are pros because they are looking for one sugardaddy. A girl who has multiple sugardaddies and also fucks around with other men for cash is a pro in most people's minds.

As it happens, I disagree with laws against the world's oldest profession, but nobody reading this thread should try to use any of the techniques taught to conceal illegal activity. They won't work for that purpose.

So for the above reasons many posts on the thread have advised married men not to get emotionally involved with sbs and how to avoid complications. This is not because emotional involvement with women is not good. To the contrary, it is one of life's great satisfactions. Unfortunately, giving sugar to a girl to be with you is not a good foundation on which to build emotional involvement.

Finally, there is nothing at all that says if you seek to avoid emotional involvement you have to be content with fucking sbs who are skanks. There's nothing that says if you avoid emotional involvement you treat sbs badly. I think the goal should be to fuck as attractive women as possible and treat anyone you fuck with consideration and gentleness. But you have to know where to draw the line in your relationships.

No matter how careful you are, there is a good chance of getting hurt one way or the other if you play this game. I believe emotional involvement with an sb increases the odds you will get hurt, but that doesn't mean I don't sympathize with Nando. I do.

[F Scott]

Under this theory we'd take art classes to learn about math.

Under this theory, we would be pleasantly surprised to also learn some math in art class.

Peace,

Scott

[Literal2]

It does.

In my opinion, there is plenty of room in the clubhouse for all to participate. My father always said to us,"The only time we stop learning is when we are dead." I would add to this that we never know from where knowledge will come.

Scott

Under this theory we'd take art classes to learn about math.

[Literal2]

For the record, my view is:

1. USASG is to facilitate an exchange of views among men.

2. The SB in question is a provider and this is a consumer's thread.

3. The requisite experience to contribute to the thread is missing.

Let's see how it goes.

[AliasSM]

I agree we should get on with the stories and off the debates about who should be on this board. I do however agree that Mandy is a good addition to the group and gives a food SB perspective that we can all learn from. I have to say though that I got a good chuckle from the rabbit and hound analogy. Lit, you are always a good read and I hope you remain a contributor as well.

I have 2 possibilities this week. The warden is gone for a couple of days and I have a sure thing set up with a SB young nurse that I've already tasted. I also have a M&G with a 30 something pot that looks very promising. I'm a little worried that she might be a pro, but will know that later today.

Great stories recently from the group. Chi is a great addition and Guy has really stepped up also with recent stories that we can all learn from. I never miss a day of reading, so keep up the good work.

[ChiGuy606]

This board is better for Mandy being here than not. There is more than one way to get laid in this game, and she has been helping some of us in the kinder more gentler and honest approach. The result of which can sometimes be a more rewarding experience.

She is also doing this without any benefit to herself I might add.

But overall I tire of this topic being brought up. Please just drop it and get back to the stories.

Surely someone else here had a memorable memorial day weekend. (And please God not memorable like Nandos).

[Golfcart]

We're missing the point. This is an internet message board. Guys seem to appreciate Mandy and as long as she feels welcome she'll be around. When she doesn't we'll hear about it. I have no problem with a female on the board or Mandy for that matter. She tends to see a sentence in a post as an entrée into giving us several paragraphs about herself, but women see themselves in most everything with peace and quiet being their natural enemy. We always have the option of paying no attention. Nobody pays any attention to me saying you can't fool Mother Nature. I see no problem. So put me down as a Mandy supporter.

[F Scott]

Dear Scott,

You've fucked a lot of girls. Does it seem to you they know what they are doing?

It does.

In my opinion, there is plenty of room in the clubhouse for all to participate. My father always said to us, "The only time we stop learning is when we are dead." I would add to this that we never know from where knowledge will come.
Scott

[Literal2]

Lit,

No one but you seems to have a problem with Mandy contributing. What does that say, I wonder?

Scott

Dear Scott,

You are mistaken.

However, I don't hold this against you. Please keep writing up your adventures, or near-adventures.

We can't let a female sugarbaby wannabe adviser just blab away on this thread. The mongers will be misled. She doesn't know anything about how to fuck women. She probably doesn't know much about how to fuck herself.

You've fucked a lot of girls. Does it seem to you they know what they are doing?

[F Scott]

Chapter Three: Jersey Shore of Lake Michigan, or where's Snookie?

I hit town around 9 in the evening, check in by phone with my parole officer, file a report, grab a quick shower and I'm out the door by 9:30, freshly shaven and smelling good. I am figuring that a woman with some life experience will appreciate the time and effort I took to find two matching socks and a sport coat that is not from my high school graduation.

She has indicated that she wants to meet at a restaurant in a trendy part of town for a nightcap. I am thinking that I will be two for two, since I am officially off the radar, just hit the ATM, have another vitamin at the ready, and it is a warm, balmy, soft night. Perfect for l'amore!

I finally find a place to park, walk to the restaurant, which is jumping, throbbing might be a better image, with people, and force my way past the bar. I immediately spot La Principessa holding court on a bar stool, encircled by about 10 guys, all talking at once to her, or alternately, rubbing their six pack abs."Fuck, fuck and more fuck" I say again, wedge a spot at the end of the bar, and text her that I'm there, have spotter her, but am a little bummed by the quantity of testosterone that is surrounding her. She assures me they are just friends, and to please come over and reveal myself, which I do. This entire M&G was booked so fast that I had not had time to send her my picture, so when I finally introduce myself, she does not, honestly, seem all that impressed. I thought I looked good, frankly, but oh well.

We smile, make small talk, and then she introduces me to her friends, who I swear to God are all named either, Paulie, Johnnie, or Dom, with one Michael thrown in for good measure, although everyone calls him Mickey. Now let me stop here and say that I love Italians, I went to high school in the Little Italy neighborhood of Chicago, and a lot of the guys on the soccer team were my best friends from the 'hood, but these guys were like the rejected extras from an episode of The Sopranos. Many of them were even doing that thing with their heads where they thrust them forward and back like they're keeping count with a disco beat, except there was no music! Add to this the fact that they were all bleary-eyed drunk and you can picture the faintest outlines of the true uncomfortableness of the scene for me. But I soldier on, since La P was, indeed, quite hot, and I was imagining what it would be like to administer my Super Secret Technique on her in an hour or so. Unfortunately, she was not making any effort whatsoever, and I frankly was beginning to see an evening of diminishing returns. Just then Paulie I asks me,"So, you Italian?", to which I reply,"no, Irish", to which he replies "Oh, that's cool." I'm not sure what that was supposed to mean, exactly, but he followed it by rubbing his abs underneath his t-shirt. Was that a good sign? I don't know.
I turn my attention back to the contessa just as a very attractive blonde with short hair squeezes through our group, and Paulie II shouts to her "hey officer", to which she replies "do I know you?" Apparently she and P II met at the very same bar / restaurant last week, where he tried to hit on her and she refused his advances. She continues on, and he confides to me that "The chic's a cop. They're all fuckin' dykes, you know that?" I laugh, thinking he's trying to make a joke about getting shot down, but he just gives me the dead face out of Goodfellas and my blood suddenly runs cold. I know he's thinking "If we was someplace private right now I'd fuckin' kill you," and it was then that I decide to pull the plug on this merry outing, thankful I am getting out of there without an icepick in the back of my head. I put my hand on La P's very soft, warm shoulder (fuck) and whisper in her ear that it's just not working for me, thank her for meeting up on such short notice, and wishing her all the best in her search. Her reply,"Ok, hun, sorry it didn't work out." No tears shed on either side, but there was that tell-tale word all pros use,"hun." Did I dodge a bullet, or in point of fact more than one? Who knows, but it goes to show that the sun is not obligated to shine on you two days in a row. If it does, count yourself lucky and move on.

I trust that there are some kernels of wisdom buried here in these posts. If I were to summarize, I would say this,"Never, never, never give up; make lemonade, and try not to get yourself killed."

Keep up the good work, and don't forget to write,

Scott

[F Scott]

About the Mandy controversy of the last few days:

"The purpose of this Forum is to facilitate the exchange of information between men who are looking for sex with women."

While some may prefer a different purpose, this is the one set by USASG. A female simply does not belong in the exchange.

In addition, Mandy is a provider and the members and potential members here are her customers. If she is going to post on USASG, it should be on a thread for escorts' advertisements.

She has plenty of alternative outlets.

Lit,

No one but you seems to have a problem with Mandy contributing. What does that say, I wonder?

Scott