"Sugar Babies" and "Arrangements"

[FarFarAway]

So here's a tip on how to handle those astronomical GPS requests they throw out. Simply tell them to be realistic, many 40 hr a week jobs don't make $500. You're not looking for 40 hrs and it's the most pleasurable job ever. Then wait for them to actually think about it and get ghosted by the next 10-20 guys that didn't push back or were rude to them.

Not bad, but. If you are negotiating sugar w / a POT via text, you are really more in the realm of an UTR escort than a SB. I only ever talk $ w / someone face to face. It is widely known how electronic communication (e-messaging, as well as posting online) makes people more critical and demanding. If you text to negotiate a per meet gift, you will get her highest, escort-like price. As if you are the worst troll and ogre. Face to face, people are much different. Concerned about rejection, and will therefore be more reasonable. And who knows, perhaps they like something about you (I hope you're going for that), and they could feel good about dating you at a more reasonable price point. This is more trouble than getting your pussy via Door Dash, but it's like anything in life.

[FarFarAway]

But hot girls in their 20's have guys trying to get in there constantly, and we are competing with quite a few whales with deep pockets. Women who have hit the Wall is a whole different category and different discussion.

Please explain "hit the Wall".

[Peter Johnson]

Yeah, I do the wine and dine and get to know them, so I put in time. I've almost never been questioned about payment even though I was down in the mid 300's. When I distanced myself from the last steady one she basically said she couldn't find any nice guys and would travel or whatever if I found time for her. But Reddit has rotted my brain even though I know it normally applies to the top 5% in large and expensive cities. I didn't think it would work out long term with me with the latest POT, and I shot my mouth off and said I thought she could command $500 per meet. 46 year age gap but she wanted it to work from the jump. Meet 2 was 400 but just heavy foreplay. will share when I am done if she's looking.

I figure the two main factors is how much is the pussy worth to you, and also how much is the going market rate. As GfG has pointed out, even if it is worth 500 (to you), if the market rate is 300, then you are still unnecessarily overpaying. So I always take those two factors into account and adjust accordingly.

But hot girls in their 20's have guys trying to get in there constantly, and we are competing with quite a few whales with deep pockets. Women who have hit the Wall is a whole different category and different discussion.

I think I will try to take more of them to lunch first. I didn't like that before, because seemed like a waste of time and $, but $20 lunch is nothing and the girl can get more comfortable with you and you can also look for red flags.

[Airmantroy]

Of course, you get it, and that is what was being discussed....how much these girls want, ppm or allowance. And how our age and our approach towards them generally affects that, if at all, in many cases.

So here's a tip on how to handle those astronomical GPS requests they throw out. Simply tell them to be realistic, many 40 hr a week jobs don't make $500. You're not looking for 40 hrs and it's the most pleasurable job ever. Then wait for them to actually think about it and get ghosted by the next 10-20 guys that didn't push back or were rude to them.

[JMAbacus]

Yeah, this is a major reason pricing is all over the place. Some guys treat SBs like low volume escorts that do bare, and treat them as such. That is to say, minimum amount of effort to get their number, get their rate, and get them in the sack. And my observation is the guys that do this end up paying more.

If you treat SBs like you would any girl you're talking to on a dating site / app, then it's normally pretty simple to get them to a reasonable rate, since it's likely 1) they just like you more than the 10 other guys that all just asked her "how much to fuck?" since you're having an actual conversation with them and 2) you're more likely to filter out the actual pros who charge pro / high end escort rates.

If all you want is a low volume escort who does bare, by all means enjoy yourself. But you're almost certainly going to pay a higher PPM (400+) than someone who takes the time to get know the girl, flirts with them, and makes them feel like a potential GF instead of a hooker (sub 300 and they'll host if you build up some trust).

This isn't a right or wrong, it's just depends on what you're looking for, and accepting that wanting some things will require you to pay more than putting in the extra work to get something slightly different.

Yeah, I do the wine and dine and get to know them, so I put in time. I've almost never been questioned about payment even though I was down in the mid 300's. When I distanced myself from the last steady one she basically said she couldn't find any nice guys and would travel or whatever if I found time for her. But Reddit has rotted my brain even though I know it normally applies to the top 5% in large and expensive cities. I didn't think it would work out long term with me with the latest POT, and I shot my mouth off and said I thought she could command $500 per meet. 46 year age gap but she wanted it to work from the jump. Meet 2 was 400 but just heavy foreplay. We had planned to take our time. If I wanted to be more aggressive we could have done it but maybe would have been a little guilty being she's 20. So the last time I backed up my mouth and gave her $500 for 5 hours. So I have overpaid a bit. I have it, but it's the principle. The upside is she hasn't been with many men. Downside is the same. The oral is not that great. Half shaft with an average sized man. She just hasn't given a lot of oral. NEVER recieved oral from any partner or BF so that was wild. Everything on point with hygiene. Said never again below 30. Selfish and no head. Too late to turn back on the rate. I'll just pay and eventually my age and the long drive will likely kill things off even though she said she can drive to me some as well. Thanks for the good analysis. I will share when I am done if she's looking.

[Peter Johnson]

I've not had any issue getting willing participants, the issue is finding the ones I'm willing to afford. Apparently, gray hair and a decent body are pretty desirable. I do treat them as a potential girlfriend, not an hourly date, however I have had a ton of luck in the 35-45 range without many rules.

Of course, you get it, and that is what was being discussed....how much these girls want, ppm or allowance. And how our age and our approach towards them generally affects that, if at all, in many cases.

[FarFarAway]

Tell me you don't understand women in their 20's without telling me you don't understand women in their 20's LOL.

In all seriousness, I really do think you're doing yourself a huge disservice with this line of thinking. A very significant percentage of the 20-something girls on SB sites harbor a fantasy of being squired about by a wealthy older man. For a successful guy in the 50-60 range, it can be like shooting fish in a barrel. Ask me how I know.

Hear, hear. See my post in the LA sugar thread about what I did w / my current SB. It isn't all just about the $. And there are definitely girls who strongly prefer much older guys. In particular, the subs. My current SB definitely has that leaning. Adores my hands wrapped around her neck. Not that I am totally into that. But because she is, catering to her gets me in her pants at my price point.

[Airmantroy]

Tell me you don't understand women in their 20's without telling me you don't understand women in their 20's LOL.

In all seriousness, I really do think you're doing yourself a huge disservice with this line of thinking. A very significant percentage of the 20-something girls on SB sites harbor a fantasy of being squired about by a wealthy older man. For a successful guy in the 50-60 range, it can be like shooting fish in a barrel. Ask me how I know.

I've not had any issue getting willing participants, the issue is finding the ones I'm willing to afford. Apparently, gray hair and a decent body are pretty desirable. I do treat them as a potential girlfriend, not an hourly date, however I have had a ton of luck in the 35-45 range without many rules.

[JoyDrop]

remember that many girls in their 20's and 30's are not open to be seen as a potential sb type GF to a guy in their 50's or 60's. They don't see some old guy as a potential BF, even in spirit.

There just isn't any value to them chatting with an old guy, when they have numerous others blowing up their phone constantly, trying to do the same thing.

Tell me you don't understand women in their 20's without telling me you don't understand women in their 20's LOL.

In all seriousness, I really do think you're doing yourself a huge disservice with this line of thinking. A very significant percentage of the 20-something girls on SB sites harbor a fantasy of being squired about by a wealthy older man. For a successful guy in the 50-60 range, it can be like shooting fish in a barrel. Ask me how I know.

[Airmantroy]

Any experience with Tru? Wildly open minded, very down to Earth. Asking 500 but very eager so I'm sure I can get her down. Definitely have a thing for petite wild MILF types.

https://members.seeking.com/member/a...e-6e29013d35f4

Avoid her, she is petite, looks just like her pics, but she wamts the money before she'll remove a stitch, and she'll suddenly get amnesia about bbj, BBFS, cim or cip. And she will accept 300. She's been texting me today offering her friend. I sent her ass packing with $0 after she started playing bullshit games. She's got demons is my best guess.

[Peter Johnson]

Yeah, this is a major reason pricing is all over the place. Some guys treat SBs like low volume escorts that do bare, and treat them as such. That is to say, minimum amount of effort to get their number, get their rate, and get them in the sack. And my observation is the guys that do this end up paying more.

If you treat SBs like you would any girl you're talking to on a dating site / app, then it's normally pretty simple to get them to a reasonable rate, since it's likely 1) they just like you more than the 10 other guys that all just asked her "how much to fuck?" since you're having an actual conversation with them and 2) you're more likely to filter out the actual pros who charge pro / high end escort rates.

If all you want is a low volume escort who does bare, by all means enjoy yourself. But you're almost certainly going to pay a higher PPM (400+) than someone who takes the time to get know the girl, flirts with them, and makes them feel like a potential GF instead of a hooker (sub 300 and they'll host if you build up some trust).

This isn't a right or wrong, it's just depends on what you're looking for, and accepting that wanting some things will require you to pay more than putting in the extra work to get something slightly different.

Sure there is some truth to all of that, but also remember that many girls in their 20's and 30's are not open to be seen as a potential sb type GF to a guy in their 50's or 60's. They don't see some old guy as a potential BF, even in spirit. Maybe for some guys in their 30's or 40's, but there are multiple factors at play.

Many of these girls are essentially treating themselves like high priced escorts and are all about the $$$ (which is fine). They aren't really on there for SD companionship or attention. They are on there to get paid. But they can still provide some faux companionship if allowance or ppm is high enough...or at least some genuine friendship in many cases, if you naturally get along well.

Sure, you could put in more work with them, but it would often backfire, because they don't want to be bothered by texts or conversation. They view that as a waste of their time that they should be compensated for. Or they sure aren't going to do much of that for $300, no way, in the overwhelming majority of cases.

So of course there is a spectrum, and a 35 y/o good looking guy is going to have somewhat different options and experience, than an average 63 y/o. I think I am pretty good at chatting them up (and mostly enjoy it), but that largely gives me the opportunity to give them 400, not to negotiate to anything lower. There just isn't any value to them chatting with an old guy, when they have numerous others blowing up their phone constantly, trying to do the same thing.

[GoneForGood97]

If I want a 5 hour date experience then shouldn't I expect to pay more than the floor? Seems like most on the forum prefer a pump and dump for 90 minutes in a motel. Trying to equate pricing for the 2 different scenarios and how you view it. Thanks.

Yeah, this is a major reason pricing is all over the place. Some guys treat SBs like low volume escorts that do bare, and treat them as such. That is to say, minimum amount of effort to get their number, get their rate, and get them in the sack. And my observation is the guys that do this end up paying more.

If you treat SBs like you would any girl you're talking to on a dating site / app, then it's normally pretty simple to get them to a reasonable rate, since it's likely 1) they just like you more than the 10 other guys that all just asked her "how much to fuck?" since you're having an actual conversation with them and 2) you're more likely to filter out the actual pros who charge pro / high end escort rates.

If all you want is a low volume escort who does bare, by all means enjoy yourself. But you're almost certainly going to pay a higher PPM (400+) than someone who takes the time to get know the girl, flirts with them, and makes them feel like a potential GF instead of a hooker (sub 300 and they'll host if you build up some trust).

This isn't a right or wrong, it's just depends on what you're looking for, and accepting that wanting some things will require you to pay more than putting in the extra work to get something slightly different.

[AtlPrince]

Used to see Beth for $150 with she hosting at her Roswell apartment last year with BBFS and cip. Got bored with her and moved on. As far as I know she never did more than $200 as she is curvy and has low self-esteem issues.

Not a nightmare date, but very disappointing. Was not worth 400 pm, would not have been worth 200. I won't go into details here, because the simps that lurk among us will quickly send a link to her, with every word, but you have been warned (or at least cautioned).

[Ngasub20]

Any experience with Tru? Wildly open minded, very down to Earth. Asking 500 but very eager so I'm sure I can get her down. Definitely have a thing for petite wild MILF types.

https://members.seeking.com/member/a...e-6e29013d35f4

[Peter Johnson]

I know you are very tuned in on pricing. I just paid a POT SB $500 for our third date. But, she's my type, pleasant, timely, well dressed, and 46 years younger than me. I do have to travel 2 hours to get to the city. Anyway, about 2 hous in the hotel room, a nice dinner out, and back to the room for almost two more hours. So, five hours in total which is what I need if I'm paying for a repeat SB that could go longer term. If it matters she's an 8 and black. I say that because it seems like the white ladies sometimes want a premium based on their low numbers. Anyway, I have done $350 on 3-4 hour dates with other ladies that were in the 6-7 area. To my question. If I want a 5 hour date experience then shouldn't I expect to pay more than the floor? Seems like most on the forum prefer a pump and dump for 90 minutes in a motel. Trying to equate pricing for the 2 different scenarios and how you view it. Thanks.

Thanks for all the info and data. I actually have a new SB who is in her early 40's and I am trying allowance, for the first time. I always did ppm in the past.

I'm giving her 500 per week, but she's basically like a non mongamous gf. I could see her every day if I wanted to, and also she is great with staying in touch with texting. It's only been one week, and so far, it is worth it, but also not sure of how long it will work for me (and who knows, even for her). There's nothing like new p*ssy, but she is providing companionship more than sex. So I don't know but it's turning into a very interesting experiment.

And I can still get some new poon as well, but of course that is more expense and my sugaring budget is limited.