Rants and Stupid shit in Orange County

[Lift Her Up]

Yep, by today's definition that would be trafficking. What confuses people is that the word trafficking implies moving people around, but most forms of trafficking don't involve moving them at all. I already illustrated the quid pro quo. There also debt bondage which is very common.

Indeed.

And, see my post 1067, on 6/19, about various legal definitions.

IMO no matter what the definition, what is morally wrong is for the girl (OK, woman, but I'm an old guy) to find herself stuck in a situation she can't get out of, or to realize she's been deceived. I hope I've never entered the pussy of a girl in that situation.

Lift Her Up.

[Grimmy23]

Grimmy, I always appreciate your posts, reading your post, I got to thinking about another arrangement we had in this country so many years ago during reconstruction sharecropping. - are they slaves? No, there were many white sharecroppers, but many would argue that they were forced into a situation that was technically not slavery, but a different kind of servitude.

Not something new or unique to the south, or more broadly the USA, Serfdom was very common centuries before in Europe, similar deal. , but closer to slavery.

Just a thought.

Yep, by today's definition that would be trafficking. What confuses people is that the word trafficking implies moving people around, but most forms of trafficking don't involve moving them at all. I already illustrated the quid pro quo. There also debt bondage which is very common.

[BSouthgate]

All I'm saying is police, politicians, and activists will all call most SWs trafficked without considering the individual facts. They broadly equate kidnap victims and slaves with consenting independent sex workers who are offered jobs. They never make that distinction, nor do they even care. That is all I'm saying when I say the definition itself is meaningless.

Here, look at this article. It is 100% typical of EVERY article on the subject:

https://deliverfund.org/blog/facts-a...united-states/

The very first sentence reads: "Human trafficking, also known as modern-day slavery, is alive and well in the United States. Every year, millions of people in the world, including in the USA, are bought and sold for the purposes of forced labor or sexual exploitation. ".

It flat out claims that ALL trafficking is slavery. It flat out claims that ALL trafficking involves women BOUGHT AND SOLD. I hope you get that. They have no idea what they're talking about. They aren't even trying.

There is an industry consisting of Police Vice and Trafficking Departments, Politicians, NGOs and government agencies that grows and profits on how well they can convince the public that sex trafficking is a big problem. Yes there is a problem; but it is grossly exaggerated.

Regarding Grimmy's issue with Chinese masseuses sleeping in the store, can we not view this as an extension of the same problem, these same girls faced when they moved from the backwoods rural hills of western China to sleep in a Shanghai sauna? They have just made one more move from Shanghai to Santa Ana. They can and sometimes do go back home.

[HoDough]

Where can I find an Asian girl in LA that just came to USA or needs a green card or papers and is down for a mural situation. I know there has to be be a few I see tons of broke Asian people in LA all the time.

Fell free to dm me.

The Mexican border is a good place to start. Find out where they're getting processed and released at. Then, keep a look out for the hot ones. And swoop in like an eagle with a suitcase of $$ It probably doesn't even matter if they're already married. Enough $$$ and the husband will agree to the terms.

[OrangeGoku]

Where can I find an Asian girl in LA that just came to USA or needs a green card or papers and is down for a mural situation. I know there has to be be a few I see tons of broke Asian people in LA all the time.

Fell free to dm me.

[Taws6]

......She is free to come and go as she pleases, so she isn't trafficked per se. But in order to get that cheap room and board she had to keep working at that shop. She can quit at any time but the moment she quits she has to move out. Now where does she go? ............. So trafficking isn't always about sneaking people around in the dead of night. There's other forms of it.

Grimmy, I always appreciate your posts, reading your post, I got to thinking about another arrangement we had in this country so many years ago during reconstruction sharecropping. - are they slaves? No, there were many white sharecroppers, but many would argue that they were forced into a situation that was technically not slavery, but a different kind of servitude.

Not something new or unique to the south, or more broadly the USA, Serfdom was very common centuries before in Europe, similar deal. , but closer to slavery.

Just a thought.

[FreeWally]

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion of "sex trafficking" being stupid. It does go on.

All I'm saying is police, politicians, and activists will all call most SWs trafficked without considering the individual facts. They broadly equate kidnap victims and slaves with consenting independent sex workers who are offered jobs. They never make that distinction, nor do they even care. That is all I'm saying when I say the definition itself is meaningless.

Here, look at this article. It is 100% typical of EVERY article on the subject:

https://deliverfund.org/blog/facts-a...united-states/

The very first sentence reads: "Human trafficking, also known as modern-day slavery, is alive and well in the United States. Every year, millions of people in the world, including in the USA, are bought and sold for the purposes of forced labor or sexual exploitation. ".

It flat out claims that ALL trafficking is slavery. It flat out claims that ALL trafficking involves women BOUGHT AND SOLD. I hope you get that. They have no idea what they're talking about. They aren't even trying.

[Grimmy23]

The phrase "sex trafficking" is beyond stupid. Let us look at the definition of it:

"The action or practice of illegally transporting people from one country or area to another for the purpose of sexual exploitation. ".

Nothing about consent. If you transport a girl from A to B for prostitution, and it is legal for her to prostitute, it is not sex trafficking. If you do so and it is illegal at one point or the other, it is sex trafficking.

In fact, let's go further with ridiculous examples. Forcing someone to be a prostitute is not sex trafficking. Since there is no transportation. Actual slaves in India and the Middle East sold for sex have not been sex trafficked. Trafficked being the word of course.

A woman who bangs 1000 guys around the world with a pimp is not being sex trafficked, if it is legal in each those countries to have a pimp. If she steps in one where it isn't (the majority), she has just been sex trafficked.

It is a very stupid phrase. It is used by politicians and officials to say they are doing more than they actually are, regardless of their intentions or effectiveness. And used by groups who simply don't like even consensual prostitution. We know since they call women who on their very own travel countries for sex work - but who meet a local handler that tells them what locations will take them - sex trafficking victims.

I know women who work tour multiple countries. They can choose when and where they go in general terms, but they have to make a contact in other countries because otherwise they won't know where it is safe to work. They aren't going to be streetwalkers, they want a safe place to set up. And you know what, they keep the vast majority of their take. They make more than a police chief. So it is ironic.

Notice that with any other kind of work the same trafficking happens. I know friends who went to work in Japan because a headhunter said an IT firm there needed their talent (ChatGPT craze). The headhunter was paid a small bonus, and enticed my friend with the job offer. He was trafficked!

I am against exploitation. That's completely different than a woman making her life savings in a few years. And you know what, the public will still call that woman exploited and sex trafficked no matter how much she makes and how much choice or consent she gives. There are a few girls who bought a house and retired to other work.

No one will question this because this is America. SW is heavily stigmatized here and you can't touch it. In Thailand and Japan if there is full consent then nobody cares, it is just work.

You are correct. Mattresses and cooking food in a shop isn't necessarily an indicator of trafficking (sleeping in the shop is, however, illegal as hell in most jurisdictions). But signs of the girls sleeping in the shops is one indicator that trafficking might be going on.

I should also clarify that most trafficking going on in the US isn't sex trafficking. Restaurant staff, hotel staff, cleaning companies etc. Are all industries where workers are trafficked quite heavily.

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion of "sex trafficking" being stupid. It does go on. It isn't the case in every AMP by any means, and it isn't the case at a lot of the more prominent AMPs in OC that are discussed on this site, but it does happen and in bigger numbers than most of you realize. There's also the quid pro quos version that I mentioned earlier, and I'll mention again here. Without mentioning names of shops, say the girls from your favorite shop move at the MMS's house and pay her room and board. That's fairly common. Room and board is cheap. Say $500/ month. She shares a bedroom with 3 or 4 other girls. No big deal. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than an apartment. She is free to come and go as she pleases, so she isn't trafficked per se. But in order to get that cheap room and board she had to keep working at that shop. She can quit at any time but the moment she quits she has to move out. Now where does she go? She speaks little English and has no marketable skills to earn a living, and now doesn't have a roof over her head. She's kind of stuck. That's quid pro quo trafficking. Most people wouldn't recognize it as such because she's working there by choice, but the reality is she really has no other choice other than being homeless. And again, it happens not just in the sex trade but in other trades as well.

So trafficking isn't always about sneaking people around in the dead of night. There's other forms of it.

[FreeWally]

I in no way want to support trafficking. Being forced to do this job, is beyond cruel.

The phrase "sex trafficking" is beyond stupid. Let us look at the definition of it:

"The action or practice of illegally transporting people from one country or area to another for the purpose of sexual exploitation. ".

Nothing about consent. If you transport a girl from A to B for prostitution, and it is legal for her to prostitute, it is not sex trafficking. If you do so and it is illegal at one point or the other, it is sex trafficking.

In fact, let's go further with ridiculous examples. Forcing someone to be a prostitute is not sex trafficking. Since there is no transportation. Actual slaves in India and the Middle East sold for sex have not been sex trafficked. Trafficked being the word of course.

A woman who bangs 1000 guys around the world with a pimp is not being sex trafficked, if it is legal in each those countries to have a pimp. If she steps in one where it isn't (the majority), she has just been sex trafficked.

It is a very stupid phrase. It is used by politicians and officials to say they are doing more than they actually are, regardless of their intentions or effectiveness. And used by groups who simply don't like even consensual prostitution. We know since they call women who on their very own travel countries for sex work - but who meet a local handler that tells them what locations will take them - sex trafficking victims.

I know women who work tour multiple countries. They can choose when and where they go in general terms, but they have to make a contact in other countries because otherwise they won't know where it is safe to work. They aren't going to be streetwalkers, they want a safe place to set up. And you know what, they keep the vast majority of their take. They make more than a police chief. So it is ironic.

Notice that with any other kind of work the same trafficking happens. I know friends who went to work in Japan because a headhunter said an IT firm there needed their talent (ChatGPT craze). The headhunter was paid a small bonus, and enticed my friend with the job offer. He was trafficked!

I am against exploitation. That's completely different than a woman making her life savings in a few years. And you know what, the public will still call that woman exploited and sex trafficked no matter how much she makes and how much choice or consent she gives. There are a few girls who bought a house and retired to other work.

No one will question this because this is America. SW is heavily stigmatized here and you can't touch it. In Thailand and Japan if there is full consent then nobody cares, it is just work.

[Oc Amper]

Rotating girls can mean one of two things: Either the AMP owner is moving the girls around to keep things "fresh" for the clients, or they're part of a trafficking network and they're shuffling girls around to keep them a couple steps ahead of immigration authorities. Unfortunately the latter does happen. There are discussions touching on that not too many posts down. I generally won't go to shops that constantly shuffle girls for that reason. Whether they're trafficking or not, I don't want to be complicitly supporting a trafficking operation, or even taking a remote risk of doing so. But that's just me.

......I saw a room with air mattresses in it on my way out. Very bad sign when the girls are sleeping in the shops.

I in no way want to support trafficking. Being forced to do this job, is beyond cruel.

Having said that, I've read in the past, many times about girls living in the shops, and always equated to trafficking. Compare that with say, a KAAMP, when the ladies come go, they bring suitcases to support their stay at the spot. That is the Koreans, and probably any other ethnicity that is using apartments these days.

Here in these pages, we read about once or more StoreFront parlors. Won't mention by name, but they open early enough, and stay late enough. Girls are very enthusiastic, so much so, I think most of us would be surprised if there was anything forced. They also provide 2 or more girls for our pleasure, if so desired and timing is correct.

Pretty sure, they stay in that StoreFront. I know they stayed in the previous locations StoreFront.

So, mattresses or staying in the location, eating or preparing food, that in my opinion isn't the standard to determine if they are trafficked. Given these things seem to happen in the Chinese shops and those shops provide very enthusiastic services, I'm not sure what criteria to use.

I will add, I've asked some of the girls why they do this. Money is a top answer, usually answered in such a way, that to me, it feels like that is their genuine answer. It does seem, they have free time, once they complete their duty tour at any particular shop.

One girl, did answer, she had some kind of breast cancer and she was doing this to get the funds to get the necessary medical attention. That did not leave a good feeling with me, at all. Felt a bit disgusted with what had happened.

Guess, nearly all girls that are trafficked, tend to live at the shops, but one can't not say just because they stay in the shop and eat in the shop, that means they are trafficked, especially when taking into consideration the kgirl situation.

[FreeWally]

Hooray, there's someone out there who understands joint probability. Too bad the text software deleted the circumflex or maybe the double asterisk between the 8 and the 1, LOL. I would just add that the chance of getting infected from an infected girl is less than 1. For catching HIV through the vagina I've read anywhere from 1/1000 to 1/400 for one fuck. I imagine it's a lot higher for syph or clap but I don't know what it is. Is there a public health expert in our group who can add to this?

Lift Her Up.

Hi, I can speak to some of this. There have been very many studies so you will see different odds, that's to be expected. I will just cite one meta-study (combining results of many studies) to keep it simple:

https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medic...-exposure.html

To keep it simple, it's 04% for penis in vagina as the man (1 in 2500), .08% for vagina taking a penis as the woman (1 in 1250), .06% to .62% penis in anus as the fucker (na due to range), 1.4% penis in anus as the fucked (1 in 70). Huge difference. Not to mention the most important point. The chance of getting HIV from having sex with someone who is not infected is exactly 0. Do not forget this obvious fact in your calculations! Most people don't have HIV. So having PIV sex with a random SW is going to be much lower than .04%. Very hard to estimate that especially with kgirls but even if it was 1% then that is going to be 1 in 250,000. Now HIV is much rarer in South Korea, especially among ethnic South Koreans (HIV in SK is disproportionately visiting foreigners), but then these are SWs so it depends on how long and who they fucked and how (and if they used PrEP). The real calculation is simply not possible but it i probably much rarer and scales with how many years they have worked abroad.

Lastly, there has never been a single documented case of HIV transmission through oral sex (BBBJ). Not one. It is possible, and no study can capture something that rare. So it is listed as a "non-zero" chance, meaning it is greater than 0 chance but not statistically significant or measurable. It has to do with HIV being blood transmitted - it cannot be transmitted by saliva. So no bloody bbbjs when you have a wounded dick.

Some girls I know take PrEP. It is really important if they are offering anal, especially if it gets bloody. In any case PrEP can cause nausea so not everyone is going to use it.

Lastly, I will say something a bit controverial, and that is that washing and hygene matters with bacterial stds especially. So I will start by simply pointing out contradictory facts long supported by medical studies. First, medical studies show that women are far more susceptible to bacterial UTI infections than men (both STD and non-STD). The official medical explanation is their urethra is very short, while a man's urethra is very long. That is, it is hard for bacterial to travel the further distance in men and find a better location to colonize. They have to fight gravity and urination, which tends to push the bacteria out (these are the studies' claims, not mine). This is a scientific fact and an official medical explanation. Another scientific fact, circumcized men have less chance of bacterial infections (both STD and non-STD). The official scientific explanation is less bacterial is trapped under foreskin, giving less time and bacterial load to later travel down the urethra and colonize. Notice both of these are hygene facts that are proven in many medical studies. But they will never say that washing is effective, because it would encourage people to believe that washing was an effective way to prevent STDs. Yes we know of course it isn't effective at preventing them entirely, but the point is they help and studies prove hygene is a big factor. I have even seen some sources erroneously claim that it has no effect (note they cannot cite a single study backing this up), as a result of this policy of "don't promote washing". Contrary to all these decades of medical research. Same way they say pulling out isn't effective (it isn't, but it helps). Same way they said N95 masks weren't necessary before they were - they were actually flat out lying when they said that. To sum it up they aren't allowed to say that. But it helps.

Do not believe medical claims not supported by medical studies. I have only used proven facts to make my last statements. That is all.

[Vulva Nut]

STDs are transmitted via connect with infected persons. More sex means higher odds of meeting infected persons. If you have sex with a higher risk person your risk is higher. Rinsing the pussy and the mouth in between sex doesn't prevent transmission.

Correct. Yes, we are always taking a chance, esp w professionals. There are slight co-factors involved however. If a provider has an odor, something is off in the flora balance, which may lead to other vulnerabilities for both of you. Also, although good thorough hygiene may not prevent STDs de facto, a girl who practices that shows conscientiousness, for one, and also may reduce somewhat the accessible bacterial or viral population, even if temporarily, which may very slightly affect infectiousness (ie principle of minimum effective dose).

But yes, your point is correct, it does not prevent transmission. We are taking a risk. Personally I try to avoid unprotected activity w known BBFS providers, but other brothers have higher risk tolerance. Peace.

[Grimmy23]

Yapping alert / disclaimer.

Man, what the hell is up with the rotation of girls in AMPs.

Like, I finally have time to catch up on some recommendations from some mongers on here, then by the time I get to them, the ladies that I want to try out are not there anymore. And a lot of recommendations are from fresh reviews as well from places that haven't been shut down.

This some limited-time only bs loll.

The only thing I could think of is that they're following the cinema / theater model where new releases brings peeps to the theater to buy tickets, in this case, we're buying "tickets" to "see" 304's. Idk, I just think this whole rotation thing is dumb.

Rotating girls can mean one of two things: Either the AMP owner is moving the girls around to keep things "fresh" for the clients, or they're part of a trafficking network and they're shuffling girls around to keep them a couple steps ahead of immigration authorities. Unfortunately the latter does happen. There are discussions touching on that not too many posts down. I generally won't go to shops that constantly shuffle girls for that reason. Whether they're trafficking or not, I don't want to be complicitly supporting a trafficking operation, or even taking a remote risk of doing so. But that's just me.

Back when I used to travel constantly for business, I visited a shop back east somewhere. I think it was in the Pittsburgh area, I don't recall exactly. I was chatting with the girl and she asked if I was a local. I said no, I'm visiting from California. Before she'd give me any extras she said "prove that you're from California. " Apparently there were a lot of stings in the area at that time and she wanted to make sure I wasn't a cop. I showed her my drivers license. At the time I lived in Downey. She gasped and said "Downey?? Did you go to Downey Massage? Most of the girls here used to work there!" They were being shuttled around from town to town, state to state, most likely as part of some underground trafficking network. I saw a room with air mattresses in it on my way out. Very bad sign when the girls are sleeping in the shops.

[Lift Her Up]

Yes. Good post. Actually you can quantify it a bit. If 20% of our lady friends have some extra lifeforms who have colonized their love canals, then every time you go for a BB romp, there is an 80% chance you come home clean. But if you go once a week for three months with some BB fun, your odds of not getting anything are 0. 812 = about 7%. So that means you have a 93% of getting something nasty in that 3 month period. Over a single year, its essentially 100% chance. Some things can be cured with antibiotics, but some things are for life. Maybe better to meet a girl on the beach or in the market for the BB. As Dirty Harry might say "Do you feel lucky today? Well do you punk?

Hooray, there's someone out there who understands joint probability. Too bad the text software deleted the circumflex or maybe the double asterisk between the 8 and the 1, LOL. I would just add that the chance of getting infected from an infected girl is less than 1. For catching HIV through the vagina I've read anywhere from 1/1000 to 1/400 for one fuck. I imagine it's a lot higher for syph or clap but I don't know what it is. Is there a public health expert in our group who can add to this?

Lift Her Up.

[Encino Chad]

Yapping alert / disclaimer.

Man, what the hell is up with the rotation of girls in AMPs.

Like, I finally have time to catch up on some recommendations from some mongers on here, then by the time I get to them, the ladies that I want to try out are not there anymore. And a lot of recommendations are from fresh reviews as well from places that haven't been shut down.

This some limited-time only bs loll.

The only thing I could think of is that they're following the cinema / theater model where new releases brings peeps to the theater to buy tickets, in this case, we're buying "tickets" to "see" 304's. Idk, I just think this whole rotation thing is dumb.