Stupid Shit in NoVa

[Shinshi]

Wow, maybe you should run for president. You really have it all figured out, don't you? Mortals and those stupid government people could not hope to comprehend your infinite otherworldly wisdom.

If that's all you took from that post--despite me even acknowledging to not have all the answers & recognizing that government isn't perfect--then frankly you are unworthy of conversing with. Some people just stubbornly hold onto their ideals for dear life while looking for conflict everywhere they go. And those people are not worth the headache. Enjoy arguing with yourself, little man.

[Shinshi]

Do both parties suck? Yes. However, at least the Democratic Party is ideologically diverse compared to the homogeneity of the Republican Party.

Not trying to selectively quote your post, it's just that what I'm about to write will be quite lengthy.

Your first two sentences laid out the unadulterated truth: both parties suck. Which is why I'll never understand why fellow Americans are so hell-bent on maintaining the two-party status quo. Seems most are masochists who enjoy this mess for both themselves & others. You're also 1,000% right that it starts at the local level, but again the majority won't even do that much. They'll blindly adhere to the whole "red vs blue" conflict which resembles bad reality TV.

Are Democrats technically more diverse, modern, and accepting in most of their ideological stances (compared to Republicans)? Sure, I won't refute that. But I've never been one to condone choosing between the "lesser of two evils. " It's a copout and--frankly--a coward's way of voting. All it does is keep the status quo in place. We have third party candidates for a reason. I don't get why we don't vote in the most qualified person who represents our values instead of making it a 50-50 coin flip.

As for Trump, I never said he wasn't responsible. That piece of shit certainly has a lot to atone for: not having a basic actionable pandemic plan formulated in the first place, bungling those crucial first few months by closing businesses and not offering much in the way of a plan B let alone financial assistance for months, undermining his own health officials publicly, continuing to sling mud at opponents in a petty teenager-like fit on social media, the list goes on.

But I also hold Democrats responsible for some bullshit. They didn't call for an emergency vote on an economic stimulus package when they could have. They hypocritically whine about pork-spending in the Republican drafts despite being guilty as sin in their own past legislation (especially during the Obama administration). They wasted everyone's time with not one--but TWO--impeachment proceedings which were unsuccessful. And it's not like they can claim the moral high ground after then-President Clinton's impeachment proceedings (after all, why would the GOP impeach their man when Democrats didn't do so decades prior?) . Also, some continue to virtue-signal, aim for "moral victories," and get in verbal spats with fellow colleagues instead of doing something of substance without any extra fanfare (*cough* AOC *cough), etc.

All this craziness reminds me of 2012 - 2013. During those years, I worked for the feds and a government shutdown was looming. It partially stemmed from then-President Obama's divisive healthcare reform, what was colloquially known as "Obamacare. " Republicans determined to draw a line in the sand, refusing to pass an increase to the debt ceiling or a national budget until the 11th hour. What will always be seared in my memory was how both parties were pictured that day shaking hands, clapping each other on the back, acting like they did a great thing--despite it being part of their job. But the real kicker? The legislation that passed guaranteed government funding for a little over a month. Yes, you read that right--these motherfuckers thought they had achieved something and were actually proud to have temporarily averted a financial crisis which they themselves brought about.

Furthermore, you realize that when shutdowns occur that politicians can still collect paychecks & have access to healthcare services? Meanwhile, government employees & military still had to show up to work business as usual while contractors went on indefinite furlough. None of those three groups get a single red cent until a budget passes. Take a wild guess what happened after the temporary bandaid wore off a month later? They passed yet another temporary measure. And then it all shut down for 16 long days in October 2013 before they finally passed a working budget (and eventually funding Obamacare anyway, making the whole line in the sand a meaningless farce).

Yes, Republicans justifiably took the brunt of negative publicity. But in my view, Democrats were just as much to blame. I mean seriously, why is our government so reactionary? Where's the proactive measures, the planning, doing shit ahead of time instead of procrastinating? Why be complacent and wait until the last-minute to get what needs to be done accomplished? To me, that was one of the most moronic, criminally stupid things I've ever witnessed. Since then, I determined that every politician who was in office between 2012-2013 will never get my vote ever again. Failing that miserably on so many levels doesn't warrant a second chance in my book.

Again, I write this Bible of a post to emphasize that no political party is innocent. To me, they're both equally deplorable in the manner in which they failed us. I just wish everyone else would be just as outraged as I and vote accordingly. But I doubt I'll ever see the responsible ones ever held accountable. This country is broken, and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if we get surpassed as a global superpower and undergo a further recession into obscurity. Frankly, we Americans made out bed and must lie in it. This is what the majority wanted after all. Hopefully, I'll have already moved out of the US before some of the worse shit takes place.

[Deranged]

Perfectly put, 1000% agreed with everything you said! It's borderline depressing to see both conservatives and liberals in this country slinging mud, claiming how their ideology / cause is right and how their party's leaders know how to govern / lead while the other side of the aisle are the "enemy" and whatnot. When in fact the average politician couldn't give two shits about you or me. They care about furthering their agenda, staying in power longer, getting incentives from various interest groups or companies whom they go to bat for, etc. If any of you genuinely believes that your representative, senator, or President is somehow different than all the rest, then you must still believe Santa Clause is real and that hookers actually love you.

Personally, I'm on the fence about whether or not this pandemic is as serious as they make it out to be. Nevertheless I still wear a mask everywhere, got vaccinated twice (had to for work), and see certain family and friends sparingly. And while I'm incredibly fortunate to still be working, I know plenty who are unemployed and at their wit's end as to what they're going to do next. The government shut everything down, but then failed to come up with a viable plan B in the meantime, dragging its feet on a relief package until whatever came our way barely put a dent in groceries (never mind the rent or utilities bill).

I find it inexcusable that the government was this woefully unprepared for this type of scenario. On a slightly smaller scale, it reminds me of when the Bush administration delayed with its Hurricane Katrina relief preparations and engaging in rescues. If you know some type of problem is inevitable, how can the right answer be sit back & do nothing? Or to be so criminally unprepared or inactive? Did they truly believe a pandemic of this scale wasn't possible this day & age? Did they learn nothing from avian flu, SARS, influenza, etc.? And as a side note, why is it that some people can't abide by simple instructions or humor others with a mask, social distancing, and whatnot? I'll never understand those people who essentially give everyone the finger and potentially prolong this never-ending shitshow? This applies exponentially if you fall under the high-risk category. It's one thing to endanger yourself, and quite another to endanger others.

Bottom line: I don't expect the government to be perfect in everything. No one can rightly claim to have all the answers. But this pandemic has been a major shitshow for the history books. Decades--hell, centuries--from now, people will look back and rightfully laugh at our expense. While it won't solve all our issues, voting in leaders who will take decisive action and not be held back / beholden to the top 1% will go some way in helping us move forward as a country. Because what we've experienced these last 10 years? It's no longer a liberal or conservative problem. It's something which affects the 99%.

Wow, maybe you should run for president. You really have it all figured out, don't you? Mortals and those stupid government people could not hope to comprehend your infinite otherworldly wisdom.

[Mandoo2]

Do both parties suck? Yes. However, at least the Democratic Party is ideologically diverse compared to the homogeneity of the Republican Party. How can you say that both parties are equally bad when one failed to provide stimulus to the American people (did any Republicans vote in favor of the newest bill?) and when one actively seeks to attack democracy (support of the Jan 6th insurrection and voter suppression bills). One party has openly stated that "they can't win elections if more people are given the opportunity to vote". Rather than make their party platform more inclusive, they decided to double down on abandoning representative government. One party also colluded with a foreign adversary to secure a win (why were only the DNC emails leaked when Russia hacked both parties?) and even visited said adversary for the 4th of July. So much for country over party.

Are you forgetting that the Senate Majority Leader didn't allow over 400 House bills to be brought to a vote over the past two years? But "both sides are bad".

As for assigning some responsibility for the poor response to the virus to Trump, how could he not be held responsible? He was the executive of this country and didn't present a unified strategy to addressing the pandemic. Instead, he challenged the advice of medical professionals and mocked health measures while enjoying cutting-edge medical treatments when infected with the virus and privately received the vaccine before leaving the White House.

Are democrats perfect? No. That's why we're voting in progressives at the local level, but, it's very telling that such ideological discussions aren't happening within the Republican Party.

Remember, the Republicans suddenly remembered they are the party of fiscal responsibility. Before the pandemic, it needs to be remembered that the economy was doing pretty well (continuing off from the Obama years, but it's the narrative). Trump was actually on a trajectory to win re-election without any foreign assistance. He didn't have a strategy for the coronavirus other than to prevent states from shutting down, which would take down the economy and his re-election chances with it. He had no other platform for why he deserved re-election, didn't care to broaden his base. And he almost won re-election and that's the crazy thing. The Republican problem is that they spent years saying government is the problem and then get stuck running the government and being responsible for it. It's no coincidence that red states are primarily governed by Rs and generally are worse off than blue states. You see are policies in action and the state is generally worse for it. Weakened unions under the guise of right-to-work, low wages, underfunded education, etc.

[Grafenberg]

Do both parties suck? Yes. However, at least the Democratic Party is ideologically diverse compared to the homogeneity of the Republican Party. How can you say that both parties are equally bad when one failed to provide stimulus to the American people (did any Republicans vote in favor of the newest bill?) and when one actively seeks to attack democracy (support of the Jan 6th insurrection and voter suppression bills). One party has openly stated that "they can't win elections if more people are given the opportunity to vote". Rather than make their party platform more inclusive, they decided to double down on abandoning representative government. One party also colluded with a foreign adversary to secure a win (why were only the DNC emails leaked when Russia hacked both parties?) and even visited said adversary for the 4th of July. So much for country over party.

Are you forgetting that the Senate Majority Leader didn't allow over 400 House bills to be brought to a vote over the past two years? But "both sides are bad".

As for assigning some responsibility for the poor response to the virus to Trump, how could he not be held responsible? He was the executive of this country and didn't present a unified strategy to addressing the pandemic. Instead, he challenged the advice of medical professionals and mocked health measures while enjoying cutting-edge medical treatments when infected with the virus and privately received the vaccine before leaving the White House.

Are democrats perfect? No. That's why we're voting in progressives at the local level, but, it's very telling that such ideological discussions aren't happening within the Republican Party.

You're literally repeating every piece of propaganda put out by MSM. Progressives are the useful idiots that will meet the same fate as those in the French Revolution. If you have enough money to spend on hookers in NOVA, you're rich and will be eaten by the poor.

[FloorHump422]

So again, stop blaming one person / group. Hold all our leaders accountable for this clusterfuck. I don't know how much more simply I can state this.

Do both parties suck? Yes. However, at least the Democratic Party is ideologically diverse compared to the homogeneity of the Republican Party. How can you say that both parties are equally bad when one failed to provide stimulus to the American people (did any Republicans vote in favor of the newest bill?) and when one actively seeks to attack democracy (support of the Jan 6th insurrection and voter suppression bills). One party has openly stated that "they can't win elections if more people are given the opportunity to vote". Rather than make their party platform more inclusive, they decided to double down on abandoning representative government. One party also colluded with a foreign adversary to secure a win (why were only the DNC emails leaked when Russia hacked both parties?) and even visited said adversary for the 4th of July. So much for country over party.

Are you forgetting that the Senate Majority Leader didn't allow over 400 House bills to be brought to a vote over the past two years? But "both sides are bad".

As for assigning some responsibility for the poor response to the virus to Trump, how could he not be held responsible? He was the executive of this country and didn't present a unified strategy to addressing the pandemic. Instead, he challenged the advice of medical professionals and mocked health measures while enjoying cutting-edge medical treatments when infected with the virus and privately received the vaccine before leaving the White House.

Are democrats perfect? No. That's why we're voting in progressives at the local level, but, it's very telling that such ideological discussions aren't happening within the Republican Party.

[Shinshi]

We are literally one year behind everyone else. Trump has failed us conservative ideas has failed us. The fact that America did not demonstrate any leadership towards the pandemic. No guidelines for America no guidelines for the world to follow. We were told that we were on our own state. Oh my Trump left there was no guidelines left to buy them on what they were doing. There were no plans. We are so far behind that we're basically starting all over. It was a complete disaster. Weaponiizing even the whole idea about wearing mask is appalling. Getting the vaccine is out started in a slow snail speeds. Some vaccines disappeared or not being given out. The short time Biden is President businesses is coming back. Gas prices are up because more cars are on the highways. We have traffic in a business economy. Oil Pipe lines burst in Texas, also help rise gas prices. Conservatism is made to scare people into how bad things will be in Democrats rule. The hypocrisy is real. Trump gets accused by 26 women for sexual assaults and pays off a hooker for hush money and harassment. Governor Cumo gets three people angry because he was asking for a kiss and the Republicans want Governor Cumo to resign.

I don't mean to be insulting, but good lord your grammar is giving me a headache trying to discern what's being said. I will say this much in reply though: you're still blaming this shitshow on one party when you ought to be blaming the whole political apparatus, both houses of Congress, both parties, etc. This is not any one person's fault. And you're delusional if you truly think it is.

The majority of elected officials have fucked us raw by enacting economically-crippling regulations, lack of a plan B in place for months (despite such a scenario being deemed very probable decades earlier), a slow roll-out of a solution / vaccine (who's effectiveness is questionable as new strains of the virus continue to pop up), and still no clear timetable of when shit will return to normal. To be fair on that last point though, the majority of our countrymen make that one a bit tricky to determine. Most Americans are selfish and care more about their right to do something (I. E. - wearing a mask, blowing off curfew, etc) then they do about other's safety, much less their own.

There's a reason why Japan, South Korea, Italy, and other developed countries are doing so much better now than we are. But will the average American take note & do what's necessary in order to get back to normalcy? Fuck no, because "their freedoms!" It would all be laughable if it wasn't so sad at the same time. We bring a lot of shit on ourselves, especially by being complacent with the current status quo that has been present in DC for years. Until we make some changes (and no, voting in the other party doesn't qualify if both have failed us equally), then we will continue to lose some people, lose more money, and ultimately prolong the recovery for many more months--possibly years. And frankly, it will have been all our fault.

So again, stop blaming one person / group. Hold all our leaders accountable for this clusterfuck. I don't know how much more simply I can state this.

[Irwin69]

Brothers, my take on this is simple: if the government wants us to shut everything down to keep us safe, then the government should keep us whole in the meantime. Not just rich people who have lobbied for favors, but all of us.

The failing of government today is that while they state what is safe or not, they offer no systematic method of allowing people to live decently if those people previously had a livelihood based on social gatherings. It is shut down, stay home, and if you cannot work from home, then starve. This is the modern failing of government.

Calling ourselves conservative or liberal does not negate this fundamental fact: we are undeserving our most vulnerable populations, including our disabled veterans, the elderly who are poor and working families, in the richest country in the history of the world and we have no true universal health care, no properly set living wage, and a broken system of winners and losers created by lobbyists called the stock market. That the market is still trading and picking winners despite the pandemic is just wrong.

So, I have mixed feelings. Based on all of the waste in the government, paying the people who are forced to stay home should be a drop in the bucket. If everyone stayed home for 1 to 2 months, but lost nothing due to a subsidy that can be paid for by removing tax loop hole from some billionaires plus access to a vaccine, this would work and get us back to work fast. Stop trading on wall street until we get back to work. Then recover together.

Back to the regularly scheduled program.

We are literally one year behind everyone else. Trump has failed us conservative ideas has failed us. The fact that America did not demonstrate any leadership towards the pandemic. No guidelines for America no guidelines for the world to follow. We were told that we were on our own state. Oh my Trump left there was no guidelines left to buy them on what they were doing. There were no plans. We are so far behind that we're basically starting all over. It was a complete disaster. Weaponiizing even the whole idea about wearing mask is appalling. Getting the vaccine is out started in a slow snail speeds. Some vaccines disappeared or not being given out. The short time Biden is President businesses is coming back. Gas prices are up because more cars are on the highways. We have traffic in a business economy. Oil Pipe lines burst in Texas, also help rise gas prices. Conservatism is made to scare people into how bad things will be in Democrats rule. The hypocrisy is real. Trump gets accused by 26 women for sexual assaults and pays off a hooker for hush money and harassment. Governor Cumo gets three people angry because he was asking for a kiss and the Republicans want Governor Cumo to resign.

[PilotAviator]

During one of the early Democratic debates in 2015, the candidates were asked who their enemies were. Hillary and others named the Republican Party, the NRA, and other conservative institutions, but when the question came to Jim Webb, he said "I don't consider any American to be my enemy. The only enemy I ever had was on the battlefield in Vietnam".

Conservatism and liberalism share some common ground, and dismissing one or the other as having "nothing to offer" is dismissing 1/3 or more of the population as irrelevant.

Occupy Wall Street, MAGA, and QAnon some common threads running through them, and people who align with "outsider" movements are motivated by an explanation or answer to something they see happening in the country. Government corruption, corporate cronyism, and various kinds of abuse of power are real, even if they don't fit the complete narratives of these movements. The solution isn't to dismiss everyone who follows one or more of these movements, but to ask why they feel the need to go outside of mainstream politics.

The atmosphere on the internet tends towards attacks and insults, but if we make the effort, we can talk to each other and get to the heart of what people care about. Seeing each other as having legitimate concerns, even if mistaken, as opposed to being "ignorant" or "evil" is a good start.

Wow. Reasonable discorse between adults with no one using swear words or personal insults. Maybe more people or all political parties need to be well-informed (or at least) civil mongers like BB and GnS.

Always be nice to the ladies (and to the brother and sister mongers, even if you do not agree with them, for after all, this is the "stupid shit in NoVa board".

PA.

[Bunker Buster]

Is the mentality that causes this kind of divide to begin with. I know little to nothing about politics, admittedly. But what I'm good at is human psychology. And here is where I'll dissect your post, because frankly you make some strong points. You call me out and tell me companies refused to accept payers tax dollars, which may be true. They're getting paid from somewhere I just don't know the details. And that's ok. I don't claim to be an expert, my studies are focused elsewhere. But telling me that conservatism doesn't offer any good points and implying that by not being an extreme liberal I'm somehow racist, undemocratic, and a Qanon supporter is just wrong. You're falling into the exact trap that I talked about in my post, you're hating on an entire group of people that share a different opinion than you. Rather than fostering an environment of acceptance and trying to include people and bring them together despite having different outlooks on the world. You're making them an enemy. (How's that for status quo). Even if the other side is 90% wrong and 10% right. Even if conservatism for the most part is outdated. We owe it to ourselves to hear people out because at the end of the day a person has undergone some struggle to get to that point. The point where trump even becomes an appealing candidate is done by some struggle that has been simply ignored by the other party, and I'm not going to pretend I know what it is because I don't. But let's put it into something I can understand. When we closed down the economy and forced people into quarantine. We undoubtedly destroyed people's livelihoods. We killed small businesses and forced many family owned restaurants out of business. We kept people safe, but at what cost?

And that doesn't mean I think what we did was the wrong thing. Maybe it was the right call. We had to mitigate this pandemic that did also kill hundreds of thousands of lives, and maybe even more if we didn't do what we did. But even still that doesn't mean we can deny the consequences of doing so. Every action has an equal but opposite reaction. I'm not an expert but by fostering an environment of inclusion and mutual respect all I'm saying is that I double my chances of finding experts from BOTH sides in order to yield an ideal solution.

During one of the early Democratic debates in 2015, the candidates were asked who their enemies were. Hillary and others named the Republican Party, the NRA, and other conservative institutions, but when the question came to Jim Webb, he said "I don't consider any American to be my enemy. The only enemy I ever had was on the battlefield in Vietnam".

Conservatism and liberalism share some common ground, and dismissing one or the other as having "nothing to offer" is dismissing 1/3 or more of the population as irrelevant.

Occupy Wall Street, MAGA, and QAnon some common threads running through them, and people who align with "outsider" movements are motivated by an explanation or answer to something they see happening in the country. Government corruption, corporate cronyism, and various kinds of abuse of power are real, even if they don't fit the complete narratives of these movements. The solution isn't to dismiss everyone who follows one or more of these movements, but to ask why they feel the need to go outside of mainstream politics.

The atmosphere on the internet tends towards attacks and insults, but if we make the effort, we can talk to each other and get to the heart of what people care about. Seeing each other as having legitimate concerns, even if mistaken, as opposed to being "ignorant" or "evil" is a good start.

[FloorHump422]

I see a lot of escort agencies (e. G. BG) described in the massage parlor forum. Could I ask that you post messages in the appropriate forum? Thanks.

BG is a PV agency. Few of their girls offer FS, therefore it is appropriate to classify them as a massage parlor.

[DogBert25]

I see a lot of escort agencies (e. G. BG) described in the massage parlor forum. Could I ask that you post messages in the appropriate forum? Thanks.

[Shinshi]

Brothers, my take on this is simple: if the government wants us to shut everything down to keep us safe, then the government should keep us whole in the meantime. Not just rich people who have lobbied for favors, but all of us.

The failing of government today is that while they state what is safe or not, they offer no systematic method of allowing people to live decently if those people previously had a livelihood based on social gatherings. It is shut down, stay home, and if you cannot work from home, then starve. This is the modern failing of government.

Perfectly put, 1000% agreed with everything you said! It's borderline depressing to see both conservatives and liberals in this country slinging mud, claiming how their ideology / cause is right and how their party's leaders know how to govern / lead while the other side of the aisle are the "enemy" and whatnot. When in fact the average politician couldn't give two shits about you or me. They care about furthering their agenda, staying in power longer, getting incentives from various interest groups or companies whom they go to bat for, etc. If any of you genuinely believes that your representative, senator, or President is somehow different than all the rest, then you must still believe Santa Clause is real and that hookers actually love you.

Personally, I'm on the fence about whether or not this pandemic is as serious as they make it out to be. Nevertheless I still wear a mask everywhere, got vaccinated twice (had to for work), and see certain family and friends sparingly. And while I'm incredibly fortunate to still be working, I know plenty who are unemployed and at their wit's end as to what they're going to do next. The government shut everything down, but then failed to come up with a viable plan B in the meantime, dragging its feet on a relief package until whatever came our way barely put a dent in groceries (never mind the rent or utilities bill).

I find it inexcusable that the government was this woefully unprepared for this type of scenario. On a slightly smaller scale, it reminds me of when the Bush administration delayed with its Hurricane Katrina relief preparations and engaging in rescues. If you know some type of problem is inevitable, how can the right answer be sit back & do nothing? Or to be so criminally unprepared or inactive? Did they truly believe a pandemic of this scale wasn't possible this day & age? Did they learn nothing from avian flu, SARS, influenza, etc.? And as a side note, why is it that some people can't abide by simple instructions or humor others with a mask, social distancing, and whatnot? I'll never understand those people who essentially give everyone the finger and potentially prolong this never-ending shitshow? This applies exponentially if you fall under the high-risk category. It's one thing to endanger yourself, and quite another to endanger others.

Bottom line: I don't expect the government to be perfect in everything. No one can rightly claim to have all the answers. But this pandemic has been a major shitshow for the history books. Decades--hell, centuries--from now, people will look back and rightfully laugh at our expense. While it won't solve all our issues, voting in leaders who will take decisive action and not be held back / beholden to the top 1% will go some way in helping us move forward as a country. Because what we've experienced these last 10 years? It's no longer a liberal or conservative problem. It's something which affects the 99%. So stop being pissed at only one side and start holding them ALL accountable for letting us down.

[SonChi]

Is the mentality that causes this kind of divide to begin with. I know little to nothing about politics, admittedly. But what I'm good at is human psychology. And here is where I'll dissect your post, because frankly you make some strong points. You call me out and tell me companies refused to accept payers tax dollars, which may be true. They're getting paid from somewhere I just don't know the details. And that's ok. I don't claim to be an expert, my studies are focused elsewhere. But telling me that conservatism doesn't offer any good points and implying that by not being an extreme liberal I'm somehow racist, undemocratic, and a Qanon supporter is just wrong. You're falling into the exact trap that I talked about in my post, you're hating on an entire group of people that share a different opinion than you. Rather than fostering an environment of acceptance and trying to include people and bring them together despite having different outlooks on the world. You're making them an enemy. (How's that for status quo). Even if the other side is 90% wrong and 10% right. Even if conservatism for the most part is outdated. We owe it to ourselves to hear people out because at the end of the day a person has undergone some struggle to get to that point. The point where trump even becomes an appealing candidate is done by some struggle that has been simply ignored by the other party, and I'm not going to pretend I know what it is because I don't. But let's put it into something I can understand. When we closed down the economy and forced people into quarantine. We undoubtedly destroyed people's livelihoods. We killed small businesses and forced many family owned restaurants out of business. We kept people safe, but at what cost?

And that doesn't mean I think what we did was the wrong thing. Maybe it was the right call. We had to mitigate this pandemic that did also kill hundreds of thousands of lives, and maybe even more if we didn't do what we did. But even still that doesn't mean we can deny the consequences of doing so. Every action has an equal but opposite reaction. I'm not an expert but by fostering an environment of inclusion and mutual respect all I'm saying is that I double my chances of finding experts from BOTH sides in order to yield an ideal solution.

Brothers, my take on this is simple: if the government wants us to shut everything down to keep us safe, then the government should keep us whole in the meantime. Not just rich people who have lobbied for favors, but all of us.

The failing of government today is that while they state what is safe or not, they offer no systematic method of allowing people to live decently if those people previously had a livelihood based on social gatherings. It is shut down, stay home, and if you cannot work from home, then starve. This is the modern failing of government.

Calling ourselves conservative or liberal does not negate this fundamental fact: we are undeserving our most vulnerable populations, including our disabled veterans, the elderly who are poor and working families, in the richest country in the history of the world and we have no true universal health care, no properly set living wage, and a broken system of winners and losers created by lobbyists called the stock market. That the market is still trading and picking winners despite the pandemic is just wrong.

So, I have mixed feelings. Based on all of the waste in the government, paying the people who are forced to stay home should be a drop in the bucket. If everyone stayed home for 1 to 2 months, but lost nothing due to a subsidy that can be paid for by removing tax loop hole from some billionaires plus access to a vaccine, this would work and get us back to work fast. Stop trading on wall street until we get back to work. Then recover together.

Back to the regularly scheduled program.

[TheOuroboros]

What legitimate points does conservatism have? We haven't seen true conservatism in this country since the '50's. What could possibly be attractive about maintaining the status quo of gross inequality we currently live in? As to your point about the vaccine, the health care companies made a point of not accepting tax-payer funding during its development. If anything, Trump contributed negatively to its development by challenging the advice of medical professionals and completely ignoring any sort of national response to the virus.

Being a moderate these days is a tacit acceptance of the undemocratic and oligarchical practices of the GOP aka the Qanon Party. If our "left" is center everywhere else in the world, where does being in the "center" here put you?

Is the mentality that causes this kind of divide to begin with. I know little to nothing about politics, admittedly. But what I'm good at is human psychology. And here is where I'll dissect your post, because frankly you make some strong points. You call me out and tell me companies refused to accept payers tax dollars, which may be true. They're getting paid from somewhere I just don't know the details. And that's ok. I don't claim to be an expert, my studies are focused elsewhere. But telling me that conservatism doesn't offer any good points and implying that by not being an extreme liberal I'm somehow racist, undemocratic, and a Qanon supporter is just wrong. You're falling into the exact trap that I talked about in my post, you're hating on an entire group of people that share a different opinion than you. Rather than fostering an environment of acceptance and trying to include people and bring them together despite having different outlooks on the world. You're making them an enemy. (How's that for status quo). Even if the other side is 90% wrong and 10% right. Even if conservatism for the most part is outdated. We owe it to ourselves to hear people out because at the end of the day a person has undergone some struggle to get to that point. The point where trump even becomes an appealing candidate is done by some struggle that has been simply ignored by the other party, and I'm not going to pretend I know what it is because I don't. But let's put it into something I can understand. When we closed down the economy and forced people into quarantine. We undoubtedly destroyed people's livelihoods. We killed small businesses and forced many family owned restaurants out of business. We kept people safe, but at what cost?

And that doesn't mean I think what we did was the wrong thing. Maybe it was the right call. We had to mitigate this pandemic that did also kill hundreds of thousands of lives, and maybe even more if we didn't do what we did. But even still that doesn't mean we can deny the consequences of doing so. Every action has an equal but opposite reaction. I'm not an expert but by fostering an environment of inclusion and mutual respect all I'm saying is that I double my chances of finding experts from BOTH sides in order to yield an ideal solution.