News and Media Reports

[Bulky77]

If a new member pops up with an UTR indy recommendation that, when contacted, is responsive, looks amazing, etc, is this incredible luck or something to be wary of?

[Tom McAn]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/robert-kr...d-patriots.amp

Need to see more details but it doesn't seem like this is a slam-dunk ruling against LEO. If future warrants successfully address the issues raised by the judge then maybe they'll be allowed, at least in Florida. On the bright side (pun intended) there's an interesting part in the article discussing the effect of turning off the room lights.

Thanks for the update. I've been busy recently and haven't been able to follow the case that closely.

I don't see how this or any of the other cases can go forward if the video evidence remains suppressed. Let's also hope the judge rebukes and sanctions prosecutors and the police for their conduct and handling of the cases.

[JmSuttr]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/robert-kr...d-patriots.amp

Need to see more details but it doesn't seem like this is a slam-dunk ruling against LEO. If future warrants successfully address the issues raised by the judge then maybe they'll be allowed, at least in Florida. On the bright side (pun intended) there's an interesting part in the article discussing the effect of turning off the room lights.

[Tom McAn]

Certainly gives a bad view of the history your favorite therapist might have endured and an aspect of the industry we don't talk about.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/02/u...afficking.html

Some of those stories are sad if indeed true. However, much of the mainstream media have swallowed the stories that the anti-trafficking do-gooders have fed them. Too often they've become the propaganda arm for Uncle LEO and groups like the Polaris Project. I'd like to see the media practice real investigative journalism for a change and find out what's really going on with these women.

Let me state that I have no interest in seeing any provider who's in the business against her will, and I hope I haven't in the years I've been mongering.

[JmSuttr]

It's an amusing article. Makes some interesting points, and while I agree, some of these therapists endure hell. But let me play devils advocate here. What I find funny, is the person they interviewed said that she was glad to get out of the massage parlor business but they don't explain what she does after. Maybe she's in a good spot. Many of these therapist "get out" of the business because they are lucky enough to find some rich monger who puts a ring on it and they get to find a life that mirrors the tale of Pretty Woman. Or they accrue enough money over their longevity that they can afford to get out (most though become mama-sans themselves and open their own businesses). The truth is most of them aren't victims, but let's pretend they are, and police come in and raid-"rescue" them. What then? Let's assume they don't get tossed back into their home country where life wasn't too kind to them there otherwise let's face it they wouldn't be in this predicament to begin with. But assuming they stay. What job / life is there for them here? They can't just go find a real job with limited English and vocational skills. Even if you argue a job as a legit CMT. It's not sustainable nor lucrative. Hell I'm sure most of us struggle to keep our own homes and credit score in tact; the point is the "American dream" is exactly that. A dream. The real world is ruthless and I'm willing to bet for these ladies there's a fate far worse than yankin some old guys junk. We rush in to tear down a system without stopping to think what hell may wait to replace it.

Is to find a worst-case scenario and try to generalize it to support the idea that it's happening the majority of the time.

Does trafficking happen? Absolutely it does! And LE should expend every resource to obliterate true and actual instances of trafficking. If a woman is tricked into working in an AMP, and kept working by threats and intimidation against herself or her family, then that's despicable and those responsible need to be thrown in prison and the key tossed away.

But, IME, the vast majority of AMP women are working voluntarily and, as you pointed out, making more $ than they otherwise could. With that $ they take care of their families, send their kids to better schools and then on to college, and further boost their local economies. And what's the downside of that proposition? Some horny mongers getting their stick-shift polished with what would otherwise be their beer and spending money? How does that negatively impact society?

But there are no splashy headlines in the real story. So we're stuck with both LE and the media looking for "trafficking" in every corner and under every rock.

[TheOuroboros]

Certainly gives a bad view of the history your favorite therapist might have endured and an aspect of the industry we don't talk about.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/02/u...afficking.html

It's an amusing article. Makes some interesting points, and while I agree, some of these therapists endure hell. But let me play devils advocate here. What I find funny, is the person they interviewed said that she was glad to get out of the massage parlor business but they don't explain what she does after. Maybe she's in a good spot. Many of these therapist "get out" of the business because they are lucky enough to find some rich monger who puts a ring on it and they get to find a life that mirrors the tale of Pretty Woman. Or they accrue enough money over their longevity that they can afford to get out (most though become mama-sans themselves and open their own businesses). The truth is most of them aren't victims, but let's pretend they are, and police come in and raid—-"rescue" them. What then? Let's assume they don't get tossed back into their home country where life wasn't too kind to them there otherwise let's face it they wouldn't be in this predicament to begin with. But assuming they stay. What job / life is there for them here? They can't just go find a real job with limited English and vocational skills. Even if you argue a job as a legit CMT. It's not sustainable nor lucrative. Hell I'm sure most of us struggle to keep our own homes and credit score in tact; the point is the "American dream" is exactly that. A dream. The real world is ruthless and I'm willing to bet for these ladies there's a fate far worse than yankin some old guys junk. We rush in to tear down a system without stopping to think what hell may wait to replace it.

[Madness322]

Apparently some butter cup didn't like the fondling he received, LOL! Creepin.

Over 50% of the Yelp reviews of this legit spa are female. I suspect it was a she who complained. A while back a similar complaint and associated lawsuit was lodged against Massage Envy.

Irregardless attention on the industry is not welcome as it may raise community concerns about other locations.

[Creeping]

Falls Church police busted a massage place two blocks down the street from the Asian crapshoot location I visited over the weekend.

https://fcnp.com/2019/04/23/2-arrest...sage-business/

Apparently some butter cup didn't like the fondling he received, LOL!

Creepin.

[TheOuroboros]

What's completely bogus, is whether there was any trafficking involved. And that's a critical point because that's the rationale LE used to convince the judge to authorize the warrant for the covert cameras. As I understand it, the arguments being made by Kraft's lawyers are hammering LE on exactly this point. If they inflated or mischaracterized things in their affidavit, it's possible the video, and anything else the warrant produced, could be thrown out. That's what I'm hoping for, as a reasonably positive outcome. Prostitution and AMP stings will never stop but what LE can't be allowed to do is to label everything as "trafficking" and thereby justify their use of the most egregious, excessive and intrusive investigative techniques.

The true battle in this case is labeling this crime as trafficking or standard Prostitution. Or in other words, a felony vs a misdemeanor. Trafficking is a serious crime, prostitution is not, and therefore getting the ability to use video surveillance to try and prove said trafficking but only finding evidence that reveals run of the mill prostitution is what makes this evidence illegally obtained by police and therefore thrown out of this court legal battle.

[Tom McAn]

Falls Church police busted a massage place two blocks down the street from the Asian crapshoot location I visited over the weekend.

https://fcnp.com/2019/04/23/2-arrest...sage-business/

[JmSuttr]

Legality of the surveillance aside, I'm kind of interested in how the police would have made their case.

They already admitted they only recorded video, not audio. So the seemingly easy defense would be to say the money paid was for a legal massage. The sex was just a free act between consenting adults. If they had audio and recorded the negotiations, things might be different, but as it stands, it seems difficult for the police even if they prove the surveillance was legal.

They'd show the video, and other evidence, to a jury of 12 average citizens and ask them to decide if the $ paid was only for massage and the sex act was given for free. Sounds good, in theory, but I wouldn't buy that explanation as a jury member and I doubt most people would. Even if you believe, as I do, that prostitution should be legalized, the evidence is clear and convincing that masseuses and clients were engaged in illicit activity.

What's not clear and, IMHO, is completely bogus, is whether there was any trafficking involved. And that's a critical point because that's the rationale LE used to convince the judge to authorize the warrant for the covert cameras. As I understand it, the arguments being made by Kraft's lawyers are hammering LE on exactly this point. If they inflated or mischaracterized things in their affidavit, it's possible the video, and anything else the warrant produced, could be thrown out. That's what I'm hoping for, as a reasonably positive outcome. Prostitution and AMP stings will never stop but what LE can't be allowed to do is to label everything as "trafficking" and thereby justify their use of the most egregious, excessive and intrusive investigative techniques.

[ShoRyuKen]

From the story:

"Nearly three dozen men and women have filed a federal class-action lawsuit accusing Florida authorities of unlawfully videotaping them as they received legal massages at a parlor where New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft and others allegedly paid for sex ".

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/04...e-authorities/

So the tables have turned. Let's hope the plaintiffs prevail.

I hope those people get paid big time. A lot of people, men and women, went there to get legitimate massages. Now their videos are a part of public record and could be released based on the Florida open records law.

[Mustang946]

Legality of the surveillance aside, I'm kind of interested in how the police would have made their case.

They already admitted they only recorded video, not audio. So the seemingly easy defense would be to say the money paid was for a legal massage. The sex was just a free act between consenting adults. If they had audio and recorded the negotiations, things might be different, but as it stands, it seems difficult for the police even if they prove the surveillance was legal.

Overzealous amateur hour. If I were a local in Jupiter, I would be complaining to city hall about the waste of dollars in this venture plus the payouts for the lawsuits. Sure, the city's liability insurance would like cover it, but it would affect future premiums and bond ratings.

[Wp212]

From the story:

"Nearly three dozen men and women have filed a federal class-action lawsuit accusing Florida authorities of unlawfully videotaping them as they received legal massages at a parlor where New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft and others allegedly paid for sex ".

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/04...e-authorities/

So the tables have turned. Let's hope the plaintiffs prevail.

Legality of the surveillance aside, I'm kind of interested in how the police would have made their case.

They already admitted they only recorded video, not audio. So the seemingly easy defense would be to say the money paid was for a legal massage. The sex was just a free act between consenting adults. If they had audio and recorded the negotiations, things might be different, but as it stands, it seems difficult for the police even if they prove the surveillance was legal.

[Tom McAn]

From the story:

"Nearly three dozen men and women have filed a federal class-action lawsuit accusing Florida authorities of unlawfully videotaping them as they received legal massages at a parlor where New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft and others allegedly paid for sex ".

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/04...e-authorities/

So the tables have turned. Let's hope the plaintiffs prevail.