Stupid Shit in NoVa

[NyHornet]

I realized I posted this in the massage parlor thread. This is what I said:

If the service is exactly what you expect and you didn't get anything that was above and beyond than why should I tip? I don't really care for the mentality that just because you received some sort of service than you should tip. To me tipping should be used as a way to reward good behavior or a way to communicate your satisfaction with a certain level of service. I don't necessary agree with always tipping no matter what. I think we should be free to use your discretion on if and when we tip. Just my two cents.

Just to clarify my position and describe a couple differently scenarios.

Legitimate massage place that don't offer HE. The base price is usually between $60-$80. I always tip the lady for her service assuming it is acceptable. Usually $15-$20. This is like tipping your barber or waiter, etc.

A massage parlor where you expect and receive a NOVA bit of happiness: the usual tip is $40-$50. Now, if the service rises above, I. E. Clothes come off and additional services, the tip is expected to go up.

Independent Provider who charges $120 for FBSM. This is where I fully agree with you. I go in expecting a massage with HE and if that is exactly what I get, than no additional tip. I look at it like the MP standard of $80 + $40. Now, if more services are provided than that warrants more tip.

Happy Mongering!

[MangoBalls78]

So you stiff a waiter or waitress, if you never plan to return! It's not fine. C'mon man!

I realized I posted this in the massage parlor thread. This is what I said:

If the service is exactly what you expect and you didn't get anything that was above and beyond than why should I tip? I don't really care for the mentality that just because you received some sort of service than you should tip. To me tipping should be used as a way to reward good behavior or a way to communicate your satisfaction with a certain level of service. I don't necessary agree with always tipping no matter what. I think we should be free to use your discretion on if and when we tip. Just my two cents.

[Taylor Taste]

Do you tip at Starbucks? Or other carryout type places?

I tip regardless of the service. I understand the 'me-me' mindset. Pay for what you get, I get it. At the same time I don't know what's really going with the other person, in this case provider. Is she having a bad day? Was the last customer a jerk? Is she worried about surviving? Maintaining family? My point is I don't know. What I do know is that there was a short connection between us, be it good, poor or so-so. Yes, I paid for a service but I also know that the provider only gets a cut or in the case of an independent, she has expenses to maintain her business. Tipping helps and also acknowledges the time spent together.

A little kindness goes a long way.

I find that whether or not you tip is an indicator of who you are as a human being and your value. I only tip when I think others are watching.

[DoctorDoctor]

While tips are optional in our society, tips are also a principal part of waiter, waitress and provider income. It is up to each of us to decide the right tip. I will tip less for bad service, but never nothing. For me the right response to truly poor service is to not return.

Do you tip at Starbucks? Or other carryout type places?

I tip regardless of the service. I understand the 'me-me' mindset. Pay for what you get, I get it. At the same time I don't know what's really going with the other person, in this case provider. Is she having a bad day? Was the last customer a jerk? Is she worried about surviving? Maintaining family? My point is I don't know. What I do know is that there was a short connection between us, be it good, poor or so-so. Yes, I paid for a service but I also know that the provider only gets a cut or in the case of an independent, she has expenses to maintain her business. Tipping helps and also acknowledges the time spent together.

A little kindness goes a long way.

[OldBoomer]

So you stiff a waiter or waitress, if you never plan to return! It's not fine. C'mon man!

While tips are optional in our society, tips are also a principal part of waiter, waitress and provider income. It is up to each of us to decide the right tip. I will tip less for bad service, but never nothing. For me the right response to truly poor service is to not return.

[NyHornet]

I think what you did was fine if you don't plan to return. But if you plan to frequent there then perhaps maybe you could have left a Jackson in order to build goodwill. Just my two cents.

So you stiff a waiter or waitress, if you never plan to return! It's not fine. C'mon man!

[NyHornet]

I visited a local MP where several ladies (all over the age of 40+) are employed as Massage Technicians.

I had visited before, enjoyed all aspects of the massage, and tipped accordingly.

When I arrived, the manager (who I had previously met and is well over the age of 40+) took my money and took me to the room.

The manager returned (evidently the other ladies were busy), and provided the massage -- then left the room and did not return.

The massage to my back and neck was good. Nothing else was massaged.

I had contracted for a massage. I received a massage..

Do you tip your barber? If the massage is good, 15-20% is reasonable.

[MrSunnyHills]

That's odd. If it was an hour, I would expect the full body (even with no NOVA) would be done competently. For 1/2 hour, not sure how much can be fit in.

In any case, if I go to an AMP which I don't know (particularly when traveling and havn't done adequate research) and am not sure there is any extras, I'm usually still prepared to tip 15%, unless there was bad service. 20% for a very good massage. If the back and neck was it, and it was under time paid for, no tip might be warranted. I see why you might not want to leave a Jackson. Otherwise, I have asked in the past for change at the front. Tough call.

I visited a local MP where several ladies (all over the age of 40+) are employed as Massage Technicians.

I had visited before, enjoyed all aspects of the massage, and tipped accordingly.

When I arrived, the manager (who I had previously met and is well over the age of 40+) took my money and took me to the room.

The manager returned (evidently the other ladies were busy), and provided the massage -- then left the room and did not return.

The massage to my back and neck was good. Nothing else was massaged.

I had contracted for a massage. I received a massage.

I dressed. I had a few Jacksons in my pocket (but nothing else). I departed.

Opinions?

PA.

[MangoBalls78]

I visited a local MP where several ladies (all over the age of 40+) are employed as Massage Technicians.

I had visited before, enjoyed all aspects of the massage, and tipped accordingly.

When I arrived, the manager (who I had previously met and is well over the age of 40+) took my money and took me to the room.

The manager returned (evidently the other ladies were busy), and provided the massage -- then left the room and did not return.

The massage to my back and neck was good. Nothing else was massaged.

I had contracted for a massage. I received a massage.

I dressed. I had a few Jacksons in my pocket (but nothing else). I departed.

Opinions?

PA.

I think what you did was fine if you don't plan to return. But if you plan to frequent there then perhaps maybe you could have left a Jackson in order to build goodwill. Just my two cents.

[OldManInVa]

I tip even at legit spas. 20% is pretty customary. If you got a good legit massage, it is reasonable for you to tip the customary amount. If she denied your request for services that you had received there in the past and you considered to be part of the package then you should have complained and withholding a tip would be reasonable. Just my two cents since you asked.

Old Man.

I visited a local MP where several ladies (all over the age of 40+) are employed as Massage Technicians.

I had visited before, enjoyed all aspects of the massage, and tipped accordingly.

When I arrived, the manager (who I had previously met and is well over the age of 40+) took my money and took me to the room.

The manager returned (evidently the other ladies were busy), and provided the massage -- then left the room and did not return.

The massage to my back and neck was good. Nothing else was massaged.

I had contracted for a massage. I received a massage.

I dressed. I had a few Jacksons in my pocket (but nothing else). I departed.

Opinions?

PA.

[Tom McAn]

You're right that it's not illegal, in and of itself, for your info to be found on a server (or other device) belonging to an escort agency. If legal jeopardy is the only consideration then that's one level of risk analysis. Of course, if the agency gets caught up in any kind of "trafficking" (real or alleged) investigation, then things could get complicated.

But for many the non-LE risks might be just as significant. As the Ashley Madison incident demonstrated, info exposure can lead to adverse marital and job consequences, public embarrassment, loss of reputation, and even suicide. It doesn't really matter whether the info is hacked, leaked, or otherwise misused, once it's exposed the genie is out of the bottle and can't be put back in.

Using encrypted transmission methods is of course better than not. But, at the end of the day, there's an image of your DL, over which you have no control, in an escort agency's records. I'm sure you'll probably be fine but you've had to put your trust in people you don't really know. If they're responsible, they'll have permanently and thoroughly deleted that image once they verified you. Let's hope that's the case.

Obviously everyone's risk tolerance is different. For people with a lot to lose, it's a bit like running across a freeway because you want to get to the other side. If traffic is light, you probably don't have much to worry about. The only problem is that the consequences if something bad were to happen would be catastrophic.

Maybe I'm just more risk-averse than most but my tendency is to think of all the things that could go wrong and how badly that could mess up my life. So for me the answer is to use this forum to do good homework and find great providers who don't ask for PII.

Excellent points. As I read this I was reminded of two well-known politicians, one from each major party, who were found to be clients of escort agencies and allegedly saw providers in DC. Neither faced criminal charges, but their respective political careers went down in flames thanks to the embarrassment. There were also several well-known religious figures caught up in the Ashley Madison mess and each paid a significant professional price as I recall.

I suspect most of us aren't in those categories, but we could still suffer personal and family embarrassment, as well as possibly professional disaster, if Uncle LEO got hold of our PII in a raid on one of these agencies. That's one reason among many why I won't share my PII with a provider or agency.

[RegularJoe1985]

Two words - "Cooperating witness".

Well one place that people have placed a lot of trust is p411. I know of people who have provided their PII for this service. Don't know how that would play out now.

[Jacobs Patrick]

Glad you had a nice session with Giselle but I'm assuming, from the wording of your post, that you had to give them personal info to get verified.

My issue is that, even if the server is in Spain the agency booker or manager or someone still has to access that information in order to view it and approve you as a client. If that person is in the US, your info also resides on their laptop, desktop, tablet or phone. And that's exactly where LEO will find it If that agency gets taken down.

The problem is that once you hand over personal info you completely lose control of how it's used, how it's transmitted, where it's stored, etc. That keeps the risk level unacceptably high, IMHO. That's not to say there's no value in using foreign servers and domains. But the main benefit would seem to be making it more difficult for LEO to get server logs containing IP addresses and such that could then be used to track and identify a particular computer or access point. That's the strategy USASG uses, and it makes sense.

But handing over PII bypasses the need for IP info. If LEO has your DL or work info, that's all they need to link you to the agency. To my mind that completely changes the calculus and the odds, and not in a good way.

At the end of the day, everyone has to make their own risk analysis and decide for themselves. My uncrossable line is PII and keeping it under my control at all times. Foreign server storage sound good, in theory, but could be a false sense of security.

Two words - "Cooperating witness".

[JmSuttr]

Yes, it's a risk, but being screened is not illegal by itself. It only gives you access to their web site. That doesn't mean that I do a booking. That only means that you registered. As for my I'd, they were really only focussed on the photo and DoB.

All my communication from there on out happened encrypted via Proton / VPN. Is it a risk, yes. But for me it was a calculated risk.

You're right that it's not illegal, in and of itself, for your info to be found on a server (or other device) belonging to an escort agency. If legal jeopardy is the only consideration then that's one level of risk analysis. Of course, if the agency gets caught up in any kind of "trafficking" (real or alleged) investigation, then things could get complicated.

But for many the non-LE risks might be just as significant. As the Ashley Madison incident demonstrated, info exposure can lead to adverse marital and job consequences, public embarrassment, loss of reputation, and even suicide. It doesn't really matter whether the info is hacked, leaked, or otherwise misused, once it's exposed the genie is out of the bottle and can't be put back in.

Using encrypted transmission methods is of course better than not. But, at the end of the day, there's an image of your DL, over which you have no control, in an escort agency's records. I'm sure you'll probably be fine but you've had to put your trust in people you don't really know. If they're responsible, they'll have permanently and thoroughly deleted that image once they verified you. Let's hope that's the case.

Obviously everyone's risk tolerance is different. For people with a lot to lose, it's a bit like running across a freeway because you want to get to the other side. If traffic is light, you probably don't have much to worry about. The only problem is that the consequences if something bad were to happen would be catastrophic.

Maybe I'm just more risk-averse than most but my tendency is to think of all the things that could go wrong and how badly that could mess up my life. So for me the answer is to use this forum to do good homework and find great providers who don't ask for PII.

[HerbB]

Glad you had a nice session with Giselle but I'm assuming, from the wording of your post, that you had to give them personal info to get verified.

My issue is that, even if the server is in Spain the agency booker or manager or someone still has to access that information in order to view it and approve you as a client. If that person is in the US, your info also resides on their laptop, desktop, tablet or phone. And that's exactly where LEO will find it If that agency gets taken down.

The problem is that once you hand over personal info you completely lose control of how it's used, how it's transmitted, where it's stored, etc. That keeps the risk level unacceptably high, IMHO. That's not to say there's no value in using foreign servers and domains. But the main benefit would seem to be making it more difficult for LEO to get server logs containing IP addresses and such that could then be used to track and identify a particular computer or access point. That's the strategy USASG uses, and it makes sense.

But handing over PII bypasses the need for IP info. If LEO has your DL or work info, that's all they need to link you to the agency. To my mind that completely changes the calculus and the odds, and not in a good way.

At the end of the day, everyone has to make their own risk analysis and decide for themselves. My uncrossable line is PII and keeping it under my control at all times. Foreign server storage sound good, in theory, but could be a false sense of security.

Yes, it's a risk, but being screened is not illegal by itself. It only gives you access to their web site. That doesn't mean that I do a booking. That only means that you registered. As for my I'd, they were really only focussed on the photo and DoB.

All my communication from there on out happened encrypted via Proton / VPN. Is it a risk, yes. But for me it was a calculated risk.