"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[FruitNinja]

Just some general thoughts:

Stats and success rates -- I almost feel guilty to say I have a 100% MG to FC conversion rate, minus one anomaly that happened 5 years ago, and one girl that I denied a trip to the FC (she wasn't as attractive as pics) about 2 years ago. I believe the reason has everything to do with my vetting process (which girls I choose, and which ones get filtered out early), and the general conversation and interaction invested with each one. All is far from perfect, though, the statistic I should probably be monitoring more closely are the ones that get generally flaky before the M&G is arranged. I've had no problems with no-shows to the M&G, but I do have the occasional problem with someone enthusiastically wanting to meet, then on the day that I ask for their availability, they want to reschedule because of car trouble or whatever. And in many cases the flake reason is real, for example they will say they can only meet if I come pick them up (due to the car trouble), but they might be like 45 minutes away from where they knew I was going to be, and simply failed to plan better. I'd really like to solve that problem, but the only solution so far is to line up a first and second string in each city I travel to, so that I have a chance of lining up a date with someone else if the one I really want falls through.

In terms of conversation templates, I think personalizing your intro letter is overall a good idea. In general, I'm not a fan of templates though. I keep my first contact very brief but unlock a private (real and recent) photo of myself. I used to paste in a default intro, but I don't even do that anymore, because I figure a simple hello plus a pic is enough that she will bite if interested. I also prefer that they do this with their intro or first message to me instead of sending me a highly personalized greeting. Part of the reason for this is because things that are said in a profile are open to interpretation, and sometimes they will indicate some interpretation of what I said that isn't exactly what I meant, and thus it does more harm than simple small talk. I saw this happen enough times (and got tired of things being incorrectly read into my profile) that I decided to reduce it to just a few sentences that avoid specificity about anything -- just filler material. It seems to work better for me. I've heard HR recruiters say that putting an objective on a resume works against you more than it helps, because it can have a categorizing effect that leads to many potentially false conclusions about you. I think the same principle applies here. I once got a VERY personalized intro letter, where the girl wrote a staggering amount of text, great depth all of the things she saw in me based on my profile. I'm not sure what she was trying to accomplish, but it did not impress me. She was attractive, but I was no more attracted to her after the detailed intro, in fact it actually raised some concerns, because I thought to myself : "my god if that much effort went into her intro letter, what kind of texts is she going to be smothering me with after I bang her?"

Back to stats, one statistic I'm starting to pay more attention to (or perhaps increase) is my success in getting an SB to agree to a photo shoot (well. Ok. Amateur porn) on the first date. I used to find that a lot of them are just too shy or nervous about this. However, for whatever reason I'm getting better at talking them into being keen on the idea; if they say they don't want to, I drop the idea and don't press it. I think the current generation of 18-25 yr olds has been raised with the idea that filming sex acts are just a part of life. Getting them to do this has always been easier on date #2 or later, but my recent success rate on first date videos is about 60%, and I'd like to bring that up to 80%. These are all non-utr types. I'm sure success rate would increase if I lowered my standard, but I'm not interested in utr or pros.

Good information here. I've never done the calcs but I do fairly well. My target is 18-21. The thing I've found is that you have to strike fast. If you give them to much time they are gone to the next guy.

[RVASpider]

Just some general thoughts:

Stats and success rates -- I almost feel guilty to say I have a 100% MG to FC conversion rate, minus one anomaly that happened 5 years ago, and one girl that I denied a trip to the FC (she wasn't as attractive as pics) about 2 years ago. I believe the reason has everything to do with my vetting process (which girls I choose, and which ones get filtered out early), and the general conversation and interaction invested with each one. All is far from perfect, though, the statistic I should probably be monitoring more closely are the ones that get generally flaky before the M&G is arranged. I've had no problems with no-shows to the M&G, but I do have the occasional problem with someone enthusiastically wanting to meet, then on the day that I ask for their availability, they want to reschedule because of car trouble or whatever. And in many cases the flake reason is real, for example they will say they can only meet if I come pick them up (due to the car trouble), but they might be like 45 minutes away from where they knew I was going to be, and simply failed to plan better. I'd really like to solve that problem, but the only solution so far is to line up a first and second string in each city I travel to, so that I have a chance of lining up a date with someone else if the one I really want falls through..

60% is fantastic. I haven't talked to any of them about filming but I may need to get some of the screen names from you of those that agreed to it!

[S2568]

I have these two girls turned out to be roommates wanting to get together asking for 8 $ for trio and one is OK with 3. Any of you had any input to share PM if you want.

https://www.seekingarrangement.com/m...2-acc45e198b37

Second on is germinthang, this one took out the profile unless she blocked me.

Let me know, please.

Thanks.

[JZLizard]

I read through the FAQ's page on here and found some great info. It looks like Richmond is the top forum in reference to good information for SD's. Thanks to everyone here who contributes its been great info.

My Currently stats:

I have been using SA for 11 months now. I have indulged 19 women off this site. Mostly no pro college girls between 18 and 24. Average damage is $$ plus entertainment costs. Average time seeing the girls continuously is about 30 to 60 days before it fizzles out. I spend a lot of time on SA and would like to make it more efficient. Over time my response and M at G numbers have gone down probably about 30% respond and I am able to get a M at G with 1 out of 4 of those. Getting to the FC on the M at G is at like 80% now though as all expectations are laid out in front.

Process 1 with expectations laid out:

1. Initial message just saying, Hi I think we are on the same page and mentioning something that shows I read her profile and am interested. 30% response.

2. Small talk 1 to 2 messages. 50% response (the girls lose interest fast here if you don't get to the point).

3. Message with my expectations, allowance, and ground rules for the M at G and potential compensation. 20% response but this fluctuates time of year, Christmas and New Years was much higher with much for success. Depends on how money dependent the girl is.

After this point success is very high.

4. Meet and a nice place for drinks or coffee. Flakes less then 1 in 10.

5. FC 80% of those.

I have had some success in the past with not explaining the expectations and allowance until the meeting and we are having a good time. I have gotten two without providing any compensation doing this but takes time for a date that has a higher chance of a date not ending up at FC.

Process 2 without discussing arrangement terms before meetings.

1. Hello message 30% response.

2. Small Talk 50% response.

3. M at G 40% response.

4. FC 60% of those that show up at M at G.

Process one leads to less dates but higher closing ratio on dates spend. Process 2 can be fun but is more time consuming and you get the occasional GPS girl who gets upset about the terms that you have to deal with in person. I am feeling the girls out to see who is in need of money the most that's who tends to go for process 1. Process 2 is better on those who are new and don't know what they are looking for or what they are doing.

Anyone have a good general opening line template and expectations template? It looks like best practice to use a template but cut in something from the SB's profile to make it personal. Hollywoodguy has some templates but am looking for something shorter and less template looking. I would like to raise the initial response rate and the response to the expectations and allowance part. Also any general feedback would be great!

Just some general thoughts:

Stats and success rates -- I almost feel guilty to say I have a 100% MG to FC conversion rate, minus one anomaly that happened 5 years ago, and one girl that I denied a trip to the FC (she wasn't as attractive as pics) about 2 years ago. I believe the reason has everything to do with my vetting process (which girls I choose, and which ones get filtered out early), and the general conversation and interaction invested with each one. All is far from perfect, though, the statistic I should probably be monitoring more closely are the ones that get generally flaky before the M&G is arranged. I've had no problems with no-shows to the M&G, but I do have the occasional problem with someone enthusiastically wanting to meet, then on the day that I ask for their availability, they want to reschedule because of car trouble or whatever. And in many cases the flake reason is real, for example they will say they can only meet if I come pick them up (due to the car trouble), but they might be like 45 minutes away from where they knew I was going to be, and simply failed to plan better. I'd really like to solve that problem, but the only solution so far is to line up a first and second string in each city I travel to, so that I have a chance of lining up a date with someone else if the one I really want falls through.

In terms of conversation templates, I think personalizing your intro letter is overall a good idea. In general, I'm not a fan of templates though. I keep my first contact very brief but unlock a private (real and recent) photo of myself. I used to paste in a default intro, but I don't even do that anymore, because I figure a simple hello plus a pic is enough that she will bite if interested. I also prefer that they do this with their intro or first message to me instead of sending me a highly personalized greeting. Part of the reason for this is because things that are said in a profile are open to interpretation, and sometimes they will indicate some interpretation of what I said that isn't exactly what I meant, and thus it does more harm than simple small talk. I saw this happen enough times (and got tired of things being incorrectly read into my profile) that I decided to reduce it to just a few sentences that avoid specificity about anything -- just filler material. It seems to work better for me. I've heard HR recruiters say that putting an objective on a resume works against you more than it helps, because it can have a categorizing effect that leads to many potentially false conclusions about you. I think the same principle applies here. I once got a VERY personalized intro letter, where the girl wrote a staggering amount of text, great depth all of the things she saw in me based on my profile. I'm not sure what she was trying to accomplish, but it did not impress me. She was attractive, but I was no more attracted to her after the detailed intro, in fact it actually raised some concerns, because I thought to myself : "my god if that much effort went into her intro letter, what kind of texts is she going to be smothering me with after I bang her?"

Back to stats, one statistic I'm starting to pay more attention to (or perhaps increase) is my success in getting an SB to agree to a photo shoot (well. Ok. Amateur porn) on the first date. I used to find that a lot of them are just too shy or nervous about this. However, for whatever reason I'm getting better at talking them into being keen on the idea; if they say they don't want to, I drop the idea and don't press it. I think the current generation of 18-25 yr olds has been raised with the idea that filming sex acts are just a part of life. Getting them to do this has always been easier on date #2 or later, but my recent success rate on first date videos is about 60%, and I'd like to bring that up to 80%. These are all non-utr types. I'm sure success rate would increase if I lowered my standard, but I'm not interested in utr or pros.

[MaxxLapper]

I've had one that said it was platonic only, went out for drinks, and ended up having fun in my car that night. It was fantastic and I've seen her twice since then.

RVA very interesting you had that experience. I usually avoid the ones that have platonic in their profiles because they seem to be the most likely to scam us. And yet, you had success, good game, good job. Thanks for sharing.

[FunGuy570]

I read through the FAQ's page on here and found some great info. It looks like Richmond is the top forum in reference to good information for SD's. Thanks to everyone here who contributes its been great info.

My Currently stats:

I have been using SA for 11 months now. I have indulged 19 women off this site. Mostly no pro college girls between 18 and 24. Average damage is $$ plus entertainment costs. Average time seeing the girls continuously is about 30 to 60 days before it fizzles out. I spend a lot of time on SA and would like to make it more efficient. Over time my response and M at G numbers have gone down probably about 30% respond and I am able to get a M at G with 1 out of 4 of those. Getting to the FC on the M at G is at like 80% now though as all expectations are laid out in front.

Process 1 with expectations laid out:

1. Initial message just saying, Hi I think we are on the same page and mentioning something that shows I read her profile and am interested. 30% response.

2. Small talk 1 to 2 messages. 50% response (the girls lose interest fast here if you don't get to the point).

3. Message with my expectations, allowance, and ground rules for the M at G and potential compensation. 20% response but this fluctuates time of year, Christmas and New Years was much higher with much for success. Depends on how money dependent the girl is.

After this point success is very high.

4. Meet and a nice place for drinks or coffee. Flakes less then 1 in 10.

5. FC 80% of those.

I have had some success in the past with not explaining the expectations and allowance until the meeting and we are having a good time. I have gotten two without providing any compensation doing this but takes time for a date that has a higher chance of a date not ending up at FC.

Process 2 without discussing arrangement terms before meetings.

1. Hello message 30% response.

2. Small Talk 50% response.

3. M at G 40% response.

4. FC 60% of those that show up at M at G.

Process one leads to less dates but higher closing ratio on dates spend. Process 2 can be fun but is more time consuming and you get the occasional GPS girl who gets upset about the terms that you have to deal with in person. I am feeling the girls out to see who is in need of money the most that's who tends to go for process 1. Process 2 is better on those who are new and don't know what they are looking for or what they are doing.

Anyone have a good general opening line template and expectations template? It looks like best practice to use a template but cut in something from the SB's profile to make it personal. Hollywoodguy has some templates but am looking for something shorter and less template looking. I would like to raise the initial response rate and the response to the expectations and allowance part. Also any general feedback would be great!

[Ernest Ll]

I've had success with "platonic" girls by being patient and respectful as well. The temptation is to call them out on it, but what's the point of that?

I let them know that I'm not looking for a platonic relationship and that no relationship would hold my attention long if intimacy wasn't ultimately a part of it. I tell them I'm willing to go slow and get to know each other before starting an arrangement. If that is not what they are looking for, I let them know I respect their view, wish them luck and to let me know if they reconsider.

Thanks to how many guys act on the site, it doesn't take them long to see reality. If they disappear, I saved myself some wasted time. If they contact me again, I know they understand my expectations.

I find the whole "platonic / go slow" thing curious. When I was dating and the age of most SBs, everyone new the 3 date rule for civvy dating (and girls are a lot more open to random hook ups now than ever before). So if any kind of $$$ is involved, why would anyone invest more than 3 dates getting a girl naked? Yeah, sure they are half your age and don't want a relationship, but that's why $$ are involved to bridge that gap.

If anyone is at all hesitant about the age difference or feeling like an escort, I usually tell them the key to a successful arrangement is being comfortable. If you look at me and can't imagine enjoying having my head between your legs or looking back over your shoulder while making your back arch, then there is no real point in meeting again. But if you find that prospect appealing, keep this in mind. By the time most women are 30, they have had way too many dead-end relationships, jerk boyfriends who cheat on them or don't treat them well, dutch dates with the soulful barista with the man bun who just wants to get you on his futon, and more than a few regrettable drunken hook ups and / or selfish sex partners who are all jackhammer and no finesse. And all you have to show for it are some bad stories to share with your girlfriends and- heaven forbid- a pregnancy scare thanks to some dopey loser. On the other hand, we could go to dinner have some laughs and you can go home with me and have a night with someone who understands a woman's pleasure comes first- and often- since mine is assured with a hottie like you- maybe get some help or advice on navigating adulthood that your peers are clueless about (finding renter's insurance, weight job options) and not have to worry about rent this month. Doesn't sound like a very hard decision to me.

[FruitNinja]

Do some guys have non-physical relationships with SBs? I've come across a few girls that say they get paid to hang out with men without having to do anything sexual. These girls want $400+ to go out to dinner and say that talking about paying for sex is off limits. I'm sure for some there is a crazy amount they would accept to have sex but I am curious to find out if anyone pays for a truly platonic relationship.

Had a few that want big money just to have coffee. Scratch that one. I've also had one mediocre guy offering 6 k a month. She was a dead fish. I wouldn't give her 100.

[MaxxLapper]

I

Only if you want to give money to chicks so they treat you like shit and don't fuck you. You could always just get married if you want to do that.

A2

Haha LOL! Yeah, apparently there are some guys who gladly feed into this. Or the SA chicks hear about it on some SA blog, and they think they can get money for nothing. Some apparently do, good luck with that.

[MaxxLapper]

I see a few two girls come to you. Anyone try this? Experiences?

Are you talking about having them come to your place? Even if single, I wouldn't do it. If they get obsessed or mad at you for some reason, then they know too much about you. My .02.

[Statecho]

Start with the Index and FAQ. However, I highly recommend looking at it as an overall glimpse into the perspective of various SDs, and not so much a how-to guide to be followed to the letter. Read it and try to develop your own style. I've written a lot about what works for me, but my game hinges on exercise as a mandatory component of it, and I would have diminished results due to lower T levels and sexual performance if I stopped exercising and let myself go, I'm sure.

HWG's "stepped game plan", to the best of my knowledge, hinged on sending out pre-typed marketing blasts to lots of girls offering specific amounts of money. I don't know if people still do this, but I do know SA now detects this "form letter" approach to mails and some members have reported account suspension over these marketing blasts. Further more, this technique only works with pros, a real SB will get creeped out by offers for money in the first message -- you have to be much smoother than this if you want to land a real SB. What's more, increasingly, it's a very bad idea to make any sort of monetary offer for sex over digital communications, and it not only puts the hobby in jeopardy, and you at legal risk, but it draws more pros to SA and makes it harder to find a real SB. So much so, that if you read some of the SB boards in other cities, you'll find a lot of sugaring noobs don't even know the difference between an SB and a utr/pro.

Very good insight! I will follow your advice.

Also thanks others pm'ed me and offered help. I will report back to you with my encounters.

[RVASpider]

Killer photo gallery and seems eager to share but could not get much details out of her.

Photos are awesome but the $$ she wants is insane.

[RVASpider]

Dipping my toe in the bowl and lined up a M&G.

Thanks to the great info on this site, I was able to find out who she really is and quite a bit of info about her.

Pretty sure she has a boyfriend. Should I be worried about them scamming?

Anyone have experience with girls who have boyfriends / SO where it went bad because they were both trying to scam you?

Am I being overly paranoid?

I'm talking to one that has a boyfriend, which I've confirmed from her social media. She says he doesn't know but I'm definitely extra cautious on this one. She wants money for the initial meeting, which I will not agree to so we will see if anything comes of it. Maybe it's the same girl.

[Ernest Ll]

Liv_N_Love aka Rvalover. Thanks.

Killer photo gallery and seems eager to share but could not get much details out of her.

[Ripvan12]

Dipping my toe in the bowl and lined up a M&G.

Thanks to the great info on this site, I was able to find out who she really is and quite a bit of info about her.

Pretty sure she has a boyfriend. Should I be worried about them scamming?

Anyone have experience with girls who have boyfriends / SO where it went bad because they were both trying to scam you?

Am I being overly paranoid?

My opinion. The presence of a boyfriend alone shouldn't scare you completely off. My current SB has a live-in boyfriend. Heck, come to think of it I believe they are engaged. I don't believe he is in a position to provide for her (I. E. Pay bills, small shopping items, etc.) or isn't giving her the attention she desires. Either way, it has been perfect for me because of my own marital status. She doesn't require dinner dates on the town nor does she catch an attitude if she doesn't hear from me in a day or two. Easy Pee Zee, just the way I like it.

My advice to you is to take it slow and have some patience. Scammers, LEO and weirdos want things to happen quickly and on their terms. They want you to come to their location at a specified time and any deviation, no matter how small it is (like meeting one mile away from the spot or 30 minutes earlier, etc.) turns into mountain for them to overcome. It has been mentioned plenty of times on this forum, the scammers or hardened pros are working a quick hustle. Developing a true SB requires patience and allows you to weed the crazies out.

But a potential SB having a boyfriend isn't an automatic disqualifier for me. Ripper.