"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[IluvSmellyFish]

I was struck wondering about the security of IluvSmellyFish's wallet while he was in the shower.

When I said "I let them know I enjoyed my time with them. " I didn't mean to say that I would have that conversation after a trip to the FC. My general approach is to have that discussion at the M&G.

Also, IMHO, its a lot easier having the conversation about gifts and allowances in person rather than over text, e-mail, or through the site messaging. There's just too much that can be lost in translation. And you can't convey tone very well with the written word. I've found out the hard way, that writing something can often lead to confusion (this response to clarify my last post being case in point).

So yes, after receiving wisdom from the board, I like to be as direct as possible about expectations either at the end of the M&G but especially before we go to the FC. But I also like to be very flexible as well, and have found that some girls don't like to discuss allowances or gifts at all. Again, the wisdom of this forum has taught me that there are some girls that are very happy to be taken out on a very nice date, crave a certain type of experience, and then anything on top of that is just gravy for them. There are of course others that are essentially UTR types, but I'd hate to scare away a perfectly nice girl by texting her about expectations. Especially if she's timid. I've found that what works best for me is having the "expectations" discussion during M&G, since it lets me feel out a POT and tailor my game to her needs. It also, and as you mentioned, helps keep the SB I end up bringing back to the FC from doing something we'd both regret. Like compromising the security of my wallet while I'm asleep or in the shower.

Will post my adventures soon. Just need to find a good solid chunk of time.

Hope all are enjoying all the bowl has to offer!

[Golfcart]

Never lecture them. Let them figure it out themselves. Just express sadness that they are beyond your budget, because you would love to see them. Many (but not all) come back if you are a gentlemen. Helps if you look good and have a sense of humore as well.

I was struck wondering about the security of IluvSmellyFish's wallet while he was in the shower.

[Madaboutmax]

Never lecture them. Let them figure it out themselves. Just express sadness that they are beyond your budget, because you would love to see them. Many (but not all) come back if you are a gentlemen. Helps if you look good and have a sense of humore as well.

I've find myself using a technique that some of the more experienced bretheren have recommended on the forum. Basically, if the pot complains about the gift your willing to share with her, to simply let her know that you enjoyed your time with her, would very much like to see her, and that she should contact you if she has a change of mind / heart.

All markets are different, but if a sb is looking for a $1 k + a month allowance, there are very few men that can afford that kind of financial committment. This of course varies from market to market. Then if you take the number of women on these sites into account, you have to figure that even if there are a bunch of men with enough dispoable income to finance that kind of lifestyle, they will already have an sb.

Time, reality, and the number of true assholes in the world have a way of making a laid back, nice guy look very very attractive.

[HollywoodGuy]

POF looks to be a total waste of my time. Not recommended. As they only allow for catfishing. But they have lots and lots of trannies, pros and big girls to choose from.

[Copper Fool]

The guy does use all the sites and I am sure CL as well. I think the difference is the cash. He is paying industry rates anywhere from $1 k-$1. 5 k and the entire scene is "scripted". Now if he can get to sign the releases for less then THAT is game! LOL.

The industry rate you quoted is girls alreadyy in the Industry with experience. For a fresh face it would be between 300 and 500. Depending on what she does in the shoot. Until a girl gets some exposure and a good reputation, she is not pulling in a grand per. There is just too many girls trying to get into the business.

[Orbits]

I've find myself using a technique that some of the more experienced bretheren have recommended on the forum. Basically, if the pot complains about the gift your willing to share with her, to simply let her know that you enjoyed your time with her, would very much like to see her, and that she should contact you if she has a change of mind / heart.

All markets are different, but if a sb is looking for a $1 k + a month allowance, there are very few men that can afford that kind of financial committment. This of course varies from market to market. Then if you take the number of women on these sites into account, you have to figure that even if there are a bunch of men with enough dispoable income to finance that kind of lifestyle, they will already have an sb.

Time, reality, and the number of true assholes in the world have a way of making a laid back, nice guy look very very attractive.

Exactly. You said it better while I was typing up my reply.

[Orbits]

I'm about to meet a couple of POTs in the next week or two. I'm learning the pricing is different for my city (I'll only PM about it) since it's everywhere 24/7 if you get my drift. Which is cool, because I'd only want to meet 1 x a week at most until trusted and then the FC is an option. That said, a lot of the gals in my city have been updating their posts complaining about the 'arrangements' - saying $2 to $5 is too cheap. I've been having fun lecturing them on the market, taxes, and how most net worths are grounded in LT invesvtments and the additional knowledge (like going out with someone that has $2 to spend.) One was even so bold as to say 'If $200 is your disposable income, I doubt you're a sugar-daddy and stop wasting my time. ' I actually messaged that gal and told her the difference between taking out $200 from the ATM vs $400 with marrieds or with those with S / Os. Of course, no response. Do you guys even waste your time with this? I'm figuring getting to the point pre-meet is a good way to go. Different cities, different folks. Just glad to see guys on my end holding up their end of the bargain. Do any of you lecture these women about taxes and the trust factor like I do? LOL.

Sometimes it's best to be patient and just give it time. I don't try to actively change their mind /"educate" about rates. I started talking with one of my SBs in August on SA. Good conversation, we were getting along great, but her expectation was 700/ date. I told her that's more than I can do, but never mentioned anything about the market, average local rates or anything like that. I think mentioning that stuff provokes an instant "so you don't think I'm worth it"-type reaction. So around September, we start talking again, and she tells me she'd love to meet me. I tell her I'd love to, but can't do 700. She says she'll do 500. No thanks. "I'm sorry, I just can't do that, 200 is the most I can do". Again, nothing directed at her, a total "it's not you, it's me". After another couple of weeks, guess what -- another message from her saying she'd love to meet, and 200 is fine.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying it works like that every time. But in my experience, if I try to explain the market / average rates, there's a 0% chance of meeting them. If I let them figure it out for themselves, there's maybe a 20-30% chance of meeting.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Do any of you lecture these women about taxes and the trust factor like I do? LOL.

I've find myself using a technique that some of the more experienced bretheren have recommended on the forum. Basically, if the pot complains about the gift your willing to share with her, to simply let her know that you enjoyed your time with her, would very much like to see her, and that she should contact you if she has a change of mind / heart.

All markets are different, but if a sb is looking for a $1 k + a month allowance, there are very few men that can afford that kind of financial committment. This of course varies from market to market. Then if you take the number of women on these sites into account, you have to figure that even if there are a bunch of men with enough dispoable income to finance that kind of lifestyle, they will already have an sb.

Time, reality, and the number of true assholes in the world have a way of making a laid back, nice guy look very very attractive.

[Almighty]

Anyone have any opinions / experience with arrangementfinders or the ashmadison (site won't let me type out the full name) sites?

[TacoLover23]

I'm about to meet a couple of POTs in the next week or two. I'm learning the pricing is different for my city (I'll only PM about it) since it's everywhere 24/7 if you get my drift. Which is cool, because I'd only want to meet 1 x a week at most until trusted and then the FC is an option. That said, a lot of the gals in my city have been updating their posts complaining about the 'arrangements' - saying $2 to $5 is too cheap. I've been having fun lecturing them on the market, taxes, and how most net worths are grounded in LT invesvtments and the additional knowledge (like going out with someone that has $2 to spend.) One was even so bold as to say 'If $200 is your disposable income, I doubt you're a sugar-daddy and stop wasting my time. ' I actually messaged that gal and told her the difference between taking out $200 from the ATM vs $400 with marrieds or with those with S / Os. Of course, no response. Do you guys even waste your time with this? I'm figuring getting to the point pre-meet is a good way to go. Different cities, different folks. Just glad to see guys on my end holding up their end of the bargain. Do any of you lecture these women about taxes and the trust factor like I do? LOL.

[TacoLover23]

Promised an update form my two weeks of naughtiness which is now (thankfully? Coming to a close.

SB#12 drove 2 hours to visit me yesterday. This was a bit of a risk as I had never met her in person and she arrived around 4 pm in the afternoon and with plans to go to a swanky New Years Eve party. She is a college graduate, good job, mother, and separated / divorced. She arrives and its a bit bigger than her profile pictures but still bangable. She was certainly nervous. We hit the bar for drinks and appetizers which set me back $50. Not sure what I was thinking, but I offered to pay for a manicure / pedicure for her $50 and she needed shoes because she forgot her heels $30 (thanks Target! Throughout the afternoon and into the evening I could tell this was going to be work because she talked about how she "was not a prostitute" and "not looking for a cash for sex exchange" etc. Etc.

We hit the party and that set me back some more. Dinner was $75. And I probably dropped another $75 on drinks throughout the evening. Hanging out with her was a bit of a chore as she was tough to engage in conversation, should not affection or emotion throughout the evening. It was almost as she was going through the motions and it was evident based on a number of things she was saying that I was not getting any that night.

We head back from the party and get to the hotel about 1:30 am. The whole ride back she keeps telling me how tired she is and how she is just going to goto bed. She changes out of her dress and into sweat pants and a sweatshirt and crawls into bed as far as way as possible to me as she can. Once in bed I flat out told her that I didn't think she was feeling it, that I was going to respect her and not try and sleep with her. We go back and forth and she basically says that this is "too complicated" for her and she climbs out of beds, packs her bags and leaves the hotel around 2:30 am for a two hour drive back home!

This one defintley doesn't understand the role of being a sugar baby, but I was going to try and convince her to do anything she didn't want to do.

However it wasn't a total bust. When I woke up this morning on New Years Day, I had a text message from SB#5 telling me her plans got cancelled for the day and she could come see me if I wanted. She came to the hotel and we hit the hotel restaurant for a $25 breakfast and then back to the room to finish off some of the Champagne I had left over for the night before and a quick round of fun. I gave her a $50 New Years present and sent her on her way.

So a recap of my 2 weeks of craziness consists of.

Met 13 Sugar Babies in person (couple I didn't post about on here).

Brought 10 SB's back to the FC.

Closed the deal in one way or the other with 9 of them.

Had a total of 10 O's.

Sugar Cost of $335.

Incidental costs (drinks, apps, M&G costs) of $307 (Excluding the New Years Eve costs as I'm counting this as more of a traditional date as opposed to a sugar date).

Total cost per O = $64.20.

Play on players!

Sounds like you had a blast. Thanks for sharing all of this.

[LandonR]

Promised an update form my two weeks of naughtiness which is now (thankfully? Coming to a close.

SB#12 drove 2 hours to visit me yesterday. This was a bit of a risk as I had never met her in person and she arrived around 4 pm in the afternoon and with plans to go to a swanky New Years Eve party. She is a college graduate, good job, mother, and separated / divorced. She arrives and its a bit bigger than her profile pictures but still bangable. She was certainly nervous. We hit the bar for drinks and appetizers which set me back $50. Not sure what I was thinking, but I offered to pay for a manicure / pedicure for her $50 and she needed shoes because she forgot her heels $30 (thanks Target! Throughout the afternoon and into the evening I could tell this was going to be work because she talked about how she "was not a prostitute" and "not looking for a cash for sex exchange" etc. Etc.

We hit the party and that set me back some more. Dinner was $75. And I probably dropped another $75 on drinks throughout the evening. Hanging out with her was a bit of a chore as she was tough to engage in conversation, should not affection or emotion throughout the evening. It was almost as she was going through the motions and it was evident based on a number of things she was saying that I was not getting any that night.

We head back from the party and get to the hotel about 1:30 am. The whole ride back she keeps telling me how tired she is and how she is just going to goto bed. She changes out of her dress and into sweat pants and a sweatshirt and crawls into bed as far as way as possible to me as she can. Once in bed I flat out told her that I didn't think she was feeling it, that I was going to respect her and not try and sleep with her. We go back and forth and she basically says that this is "too complicated" for her and she climbs out of beds, packs her bags and leaves the hotel around 2:30 am for a two hour drive back home!

This one defintley doesn't understand the role of being a sugar baby, but I was going to try and convince her to do anything she didn't want to do.

However it wasn't a total bust. When I woke up this morning on New Years Day, I had a text message from SB#5 telling me her plans got cancelled for the day and she could come see me if I wanted. She came to the hotel and we hit the hotel restaurant for a $25 breakfast and then back to the room to finish off some of the Champagne I had left over for the night before and a quick round of fun. I gave her a $50 New Years present and sent her on her way.

So a recap of my 2 weeks of craziness consists of.

Met 13 Sugar Babies in person (couple I didn't post about on here).

Brought 10 SB's back to the FC.

Closed the deal in one way or the other with 9 of them.

Had a total of 10 O's.

Sugar Cost of $335.

Incidental costs (drinks, apps, M&G costs) of $307 (Excluding the New Years Eve costs as I'm counting this as more of a traditional date as opposed to a sugar date).

Total cost per O = $64.20.

Play on players!

[IluvSmellyFish]

It appears my approach is different than most of the others here. I don't cut them loose, but rather group flaky girls into a certain bucket. Then if there is an opening in my schedule that isn't filled, I double / triple / quaduple book them.

If all two / three / four end up flaking, well, no loss anyway since the time I scheduled to meet with them would have been idle time watching sportscenter anyway. On the other hand, if one of them does come through, great. And then I cancel on the others. I've found that some of these flakes are all about playing games (as identified by at least one other member of the board), and oddly enough, if you suddenly cancel on them because you have plans with another "friend," they all of a sudden become much more interested. As for those flakes that are so offended by the cancellation (even though they bailed on me last minute the last time we set plans) that they decide to "cut you loose". Well, all the same to me, there will be others to take her place.

One of the other more experienced brothers put it nicely (it was probably HWG), at the end of the day, its a game of numbers.

Just my two cents and my approach.

I need a little advice from the guys on this one. I've got one who's really young and hot (20 yo, latina) who has now cancelled on me for the M&G just prior to it the past 3 times. I really want to meet this one but suspect she's shy and nervous about it. She sends me plenty of pics to keep me going but every time I'm about to head out the door to meet her, something comes up and she cancels. How long do you allow one to miss appointments before deciding they're a lost cause?

[JZLizard]

I live in PHX, where that guy is located (he works the ASU girls pretty hard). A while back I was out of town for a while and happened to check out one of his videos. As I was watching I had a funny feeling that the girl in the video, a 20 something MILF named Madison, looked awfully familiar. After a while it hit me that she was the hot new bartender at my local sports bar that I had been chatting up one evening before I went out of town. She seemed like a sweet, not too bright, hot chick who had let a past relationship leave her in a tight spot. She was talking about how tough it is to make ends meet with kids and I was trying to get the conversation steered towards the SB path without clueing in every other horn-dog sitting at the bar. Ultimately I didn't get it done and left. Fast forward a few weeks to me catching her on film and her taking it three ways like a champ. In the video she came across exactly the way she did in the bar, a little ditzy and surprised to find herself with a cock in her mouth; I couldn't believe that she is bright enough to act that well.

Needless to say a couple of weeks later when I got back home I made a beeline for the bar, but alas, she had already quit (or maybe been fired, who knows). I felt good that my instincts were right about her, bummed that I didn't work it harder.

Great story!

I also try to avoid gaming women (for SB action or otherwise) at bars within listening range of other dudes as you said. It just seems like it undermines chances of success (possibly even resulting in someone trying to cock block).

[Mike7794]

Needless to say a couple of weeks later when I got back home I made a beeline for the bar, but alas, she had already quit (or maybe been fired, who knows). I felt good that my instincts were right about her, bummed that I didn't work it harder.

Or maybe she has a new career.