"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[FredMoore]

JL, it sounds like you have got the skills to mostly date and still attract the youngsters that we all crave (youth, fitness, charm, looks?) . If that works for you there is no need to go through the drama of allowances and arrangements. You do however have a monogamous relationship with your GF 50 weeks / year and seem to be good at that so far. So your long term relationship skills seem to be quite good.

[JZLizard]

Lizard in my book you are doing amazingly well. Especially for a so called newbie. So far I have only actually fucked and dated a stone cold 10 once she was Russian. And the sex was terrible, she would not kiss and she was always sad. She was nice to me. But after doing her three times I gave up on her.

Sugar was only 200 and I did get to try her out. But people are how you find them and she was seriously broken and I was not going to spend 200 per lesson on a most likely lost cause.

Whatever you are doing keep it up. If you are enjoying it then you are most certainly doing it right. And your reports are awesome. Lots of good info.

I would say though if your 10 was that great I don't know how I could ever stay away from her. LOL.

Revvo.

Revvo, I call myself a newbie because really I am in the sense of the true Sugarbowl. What I do currently is really just dating and is an extension of what I've been doing most of my life, with the added twist of the fact the girls are disproportionately young for me and that there is some help with bills to be had at the end of the fuck session.

My game got developed early -- even as a small child I was such a horny little fuck, I can remember sitting there in bed at age 7 or 8 with a little boner going, fantasizing about fucking my sisters friends, my moms friends, my teacher, etc. Literally that's all I thought about every night when I went to sleep, and I spent a lot of time plotting how I could satisfy my urges when I got old enough to act on them. Became sexually active at 13 with my girlfriend at the time, but also got a lesson in how manipulative / conniving / deceitful / vindictive / controlling a female (even a teenage one) can be if you allow them to feel like they've taken charge for even a moment. I took the pain from that experience and turned it into a learning experience and developed my craft as I got older. There are lots of areas of handling women that are still quite under-developed for me. My first marriage failed and I still find long-term relationships extremely challenging... It's so much easier for me to serial date than it is to actually live with someone. I have friends that have much better luck in long-term relationships than me and I sometimes wish my skills were more balanced in that regard. But, the portion of my game that is well-developed is the part that pays off big-time in terms of procuring sex during not only SB hunting but just online dating in general.

So the success that I've revealed here is really only part of the equation, I guess, as it only speaks to my ability to quickly take things from the M&G stage to the FC for an epic romp. Beyond that, there is only one SB (and this was a stripper I met in a strip club) that I've even had more than one date with. I think a truly successful SB would have a harem of ongoing, low-cost high quality-pussy, maybe juggling half a dozen or so at a time and making sure when one cycles out that the vacancy is filled with equal or better. Right now my relationship with my girlfriend doesn't allow me to even attempt that. I'm actually envious of HollywoodGuy sometimes, living in a place like L.A. Where there is a constant supply of girls nearby. Maybe if things don't work out with my GF I should move to L.A. .

[JZLizard]

" Anyway, the thing that troubled me the entire night is what troubles me now... There is no way a night like that cannot have an impact on my current relationship.".

Good material JL. I think this is a good point to make to the brotherhood.

There is no way that a covert relationship cannot impact your SO connection. Most of us are on the SB scene because our relationship with our SO is not great. When there is an emotional connection with someone, it's hard to work your way back from that. Hopefully you can. Don't dabble in Sugarville if you value your SO. There is only heartache ahead.

I too have an imperfect relationship with my SO. When it comes to sex, I crave variety and I've been like that as long as I remember. I'm mature enough that I can behave, but when she travels on these extended trips to spend time with family, it leaves me alone in the house by myself (which I hate) and that leaves me bored and unable to resist my cravings for sex with varied partners.

I usually go through some level of withdrawal whenever she comes back from her trips and I have to cease activities. This time, the withdrawal is felt a little worse than usual, because she came back earlier than expected, which means I had to cancel dates with 3 POTs I was really looking forward to. Add to that, the perfect 10 I spoke of in an earlier post showed me such an amazingly good time that it's hard to keep reminding myself that the reality is that if I left the GF and told the 10 to move in with me, in a couple of years I would be back to square one, dealing with the 10's bitchy spells during her period, and then I would be back to craving sex with different partners (and in all honesty probably missing many things about my ex).

So yes, I do value my GF and would prefer not to screw it up -- in fact that takes priority over everything else I do, and is one reason I do not date babys close to home or while the GF is in town. I know it can take a negative toll on the relationship, but being a seasonal activity I think that impact comes in cycles and tends to heal itself as the rest of the year plays out.

I must admit I'm curious about some of the rest of the guys here, especially those married with kids (since I'm not and don't have them). With so many things like alimony / child support up for grabs in this situation, I do sometimes want to understand how well everyone has thought through the risks, what the plan is if things should go terribly sideways, etc. But then I realize it's not really my business so I just wait for someone to volunteer whatever they want to share on the subject.

In the meantime I just have to accept the withdrawal symptoms I go through. The good news is that there is a possibility my GF might be partaking in some care taking of an elderly relative in the near future which might ultimately result in more playtime for me. I'll just have to wait and see.

[JZLizard]

JL.

" I have never discussed money with any of these girls. I treat it like its any other date, we fuck, then I give them a gift ".

JL, this is not the spirit of the Sugar bowl. But go for it if it works for you (which it did not this time) A true sugar arrangement is a business deal and it is important IMHO to set the tone with the POT SB. I make it clear up front what I am looking for (=sex) ,not a date. And I ask her what she expects out of the arrangement. Only if she doesn't offer an opinion will I gift her after the deed is done. But # 1 up front is the FC visit no matter what. No sex =no allowance.

I do understand some of my operational modes may not be in the spirit of the Sugar bowl, but of course my entire daddying hobby can only take place a within the span of few weeks out of the year, so the way I go about doing things will differ a bit from someone who has it down to an art form. The two times I have talked money before the fact, it turned out in a non-deal. In both cases I know what went wrong -- by asking them how much they wanted, I was pretty much asking them to take a mental trip into fantasy land where the value of their pussy was higher than a top ranked porn star. At that point, it becomes hard to bring the negotiation down to a reasonable range. One girl said she was getting a grand and a half for a weekend, and I said well if you break that down to an hourly rate over a couple of days and consider that I only want to spend a couple of hours with her then what I was offering her, then what I was offering was a much better deal ... Well it wasn't enough to convince her so I ended up never meeting that one. I'm sure that for those who live in an area with much bigger ponds of fish, and especially those of you who do this year round, I'm sure you find what works for you. So far, discussing money up front just hasn't worked for me yet. I always tell them, let's just meet and see if the chemistry is there. Luckily in all cases but one I've been able to charm them into bed without discussing money, and so far they seem happy with what they've received overall (except for the one who wanted a place to live, but she knew I couldn't offer that before we fucked). So I always tell them -- "fuck me only if you feel like fucking me, pretend we're just on a regular date and decide based on chemistry alone". That way, they can't possibly be disappointed with what I pay them at the end of the date. Then I adjust compensation based on how good of a date they were. Note it's not based on how much I want to see them again, I knew I was never going to see the perfect 10 again but I basically gave her 2.5 times my "baseline" per-date allowance for an all nighter which is $$ I did that because she deserved it and never asked for it, the exact opposite of the want to be SBs who are actually just hookers that say up front "theres a price if I sleep with you". I told the two GPS girls if I wanted a hooker I'd just go to backpage and have a lot less BS to deal with. To me a SB is someone who wants to fuck me, and I help her with her bills because I want to. It might not be the official Sugar bowl definition of an SB, and if things don't work out with my GF one day maybe I will become a more proper Sugar bowl participant, but for now I just have to get by as I can during those 2-3 weeks out of the year I get to play.

JL.
" we decided to go bar hopping and have some drinks. Problem was, she picked the bars and they were all extremely loud ".

The thing is, I am all about getting that little Baby into the FC ASAP. Going to bars is unnecessary and distracts her from you. Also excessive boozing results in a drunk baby and you don't need that in the bowl. That is a dating technique to loosen inhibitions. In the SB it is a foregone conclusion. Of course, if that is what you like YMMV

You're correct on all points. Excessive boozing can screw up a date and I almost had that happen. A little college girl who had said she doesn't drink in her profile started tossing them back like nobodies business. I told her be careful I don't want her passing out or puking. Ultimately the alcohol led to a big argument after the first fuck session, but that argument led to a kiss and makeup fuck session that was even more intense than the first. So, it can work both ways.

Also correct that it is a dating technique, but it's also something I enjoy doing. I like going to bars / clubs and drinking, it's not just to loosen her up but it's more simply because I enjoy all of it. When they ask me what I'm looking for in a sugar baby, one of the things I say is that I like the companionship leading up to the events in bed. I like getting to know them over dinner, dancing with them at the club. For me it brings back a lot of great memories of where I used to pick up most of my free pussy. I also like the atmosphere, the music, etc. I'm a musician myself so when I go to a live music place I'm often sizing up the band's gear and looking at how they do things, etc. The sex of course is the capstone event of the night, but I find this dating ritual actually enhances the sex -- women like to be wined and dined by good company, so I try to be that and it usually pays off by the panties dropping with no discussion of money. I guess it's just me but I want to reward them in my way, I would feel subordinate to them if I allowed them to dictate to me how much I was paying. I want it to be more like "okay, I showed you a good date and a good time, and I'm giving you the help for bills because I want to not because I have to". Just a different mode of operation I guess?

And I do realize that some of you guys are daddying in your hometown, thus need the discretion of going straight to the FC without being seen with her in public. I will do the same thing if I ever do this close to home, but for right now I think it's too small of a world so most of my SBs are in other cities.

[Revvo]

Apologies Revvo -- I just realized I failed to answer your final question about pushback. So far in all but one case I've sent after the fact texts asked these girls for how they think the date went overall. So far the response has been along the lines of thanking me for the "generous" gift, so I assume there has been no problems thus far with amount I've been giving. I will also say though that none of these girls has really been catering to my sexual needs the way a service provider might (an escort or a masseuse at an AMP might ask or care about what I want, but the SBs I've seen often go so far as to tell me what they want me to do to them in order for them to cum!) I'm the type that likes to please them too, so if they tell me that keeping intense tongue action on their clit will help them cum then I take one for the team and forget about my own pleasure long enough to get the job done (even in a 69 position, most girls don't do a great job of sucking cock when they are focusing on their own orgasm, its kind of a give and take dance in my experience). I'm saying this because maybe they take this into overall consideration when evaluating whether the amount paid was satisfactory?

Only twice have I ever made the mistake of talking about money before we fucked. One time it precluded me from meeting the girl at all due to her ridiculous idea of how much renting her c*nt was worth, and the other time was the failed M&G I posted about a couple of posts back, where we met and then started money talk afterword. I don't mean talking about money before hand is a mistake for everyone, but it does appear to be for me. What I've found works best is to tell them let's meet for dinner and see if there is an attraction there we can work with. After a couple of cocktails they are ready for marathon fucking in all cases so far except that one that I documented. I think I am fairly good at capturing their interest and making the date fun enough that they are willing to shed panties and play "what's behind curtain number 3" (the curtain being the proverbial money envelope), not knowing if the price is right or not or how much they will get after all is said and done. Hehe. The strategy doesn't work if the girl just isn't into me like the blonde I recently wrote about. I found out later from viewing her facebook that she is apparently lovers (bisexual? She likes dudes too based on pics) with another girl that I was talking to about a potential M&G! That's the scary thing, it's like they were both playing me but without letting me know they knew each other. Yet neither one of them were smart enough to remove their real names from their email so I was basically able to see everything about both of their lives and their relationship over the last 3 years or so. LOL.

Interestingly though on the topic of payment, I had one M&G turn into an awesome fuck session with a stunner, only to have her get mad at me and leave in a huff without even taking her gift. She was actually pissed that I tried to pay her. I talked to her later and found out she was looking for sort of a long-term thing and a place to live at the end of the month (something she never told me). She knew over dinner it wasn't possible with me because I told her about my living situation. She still opted to follow me up to the FC and show me a time that was something on the order of a porn movie, yet got pissed at me afterward anyway. Got to love female logic.

Lizard in my book you are doing amazingly well. Especially for a so called newbie. So far I have only actually fucked and dated a stone cold 10 once she was Russian. And the sex was terrible, she would not kiss and she was always sad. She was nice to me. But after doing her three times I gave up on her.

Sugar was only 200 and I did get to try her out. But people are how you find them and she was seriously broken and I was not going to spend 200 per lesson on a most likely lost cause.

Whatever you are doing keep it up. If you are enjoying it then you are most certainly doing it right. And your reports are awesome. Lots of good info.

I would say though if your 10 was that great I don't know how I could ever stay away from her. LOL.

Revvo.

[HollywoodGuy]

In my opinion, the worst part about searching for a new SB is wading through the GPS girls. One girl who responded to my initial message on SA told me she will take no less than $$$$$ per meeting, for no more than 2-3 hours per meeting. When I told her that it's going to be tough to find someone in this area who will gift that much to her, she told me her last local arrangement was giving her 1 k per date! I told her she should have kept him and wished her the best of luck in finding someone who meets her expectations.

On the other hand, I have a M&G with a HCB in just a couple hours, let's hope it goes well.

Be proactive. Make the initial contact with your reasonable donation amount. 80% of the girls that reply are already on the same page. The other 20% will either laugh, try to upsell or be indignant. So what?

[FotoGuy1970]

In my opinion, the worst part about searching for a new SB is wading through the GPS girls. One girl who responded to my initial message on SA told me she will take no less than $$$$$ per meeting, for no more than 2-3 hours per meeting. When I told her that it's going to be tough to find someone in this area who will gift that much to her, she told me her last local arrangement was giving her 1 k per date! I told her she should have kept him and wished her the best of luck in finding someone who meets her expectations.

On the other hand, I have a M&G with a HCB in just a couple hours, let's hope it goes well.

[HollywoodGuy]

The thing is, I am all about getting that little Baby into the FC ASAP. Going to bars is unnecessary and distracts her from you. Also excessive boozing results in a drunk baby and you don't need that in the bowl. That is a dating technique to loosen inhibitions. In the SB it is a foregone conclusion. Of course, if that is what you like YMMV.

All true. Any girl willing to date someone 30+ years older than her has already dropped or is ready to drop most if not all of her inhibitions. Thats why SB's that say no in the FC don't last too long. There are just too many willing to say yes.

[FredMoore]

" Anyway, the thing that troubled me the entire night is what troubles me now... There is no way a night like that cannot have an impact on my current relationship.".

Good material JL. I think this is a good point to make to the brotherhood.

There is no way that a covert relationship cannot impact your SO connection. Most of us are on the SB scene because our relationship with our SO is not great. When there is an emotional connection with someone, it's hard to work your way back from that. Hopefully you can. Don't dabble in Sugarville if you value your SO. There is only heartache ahead.

[FredMoore]

JL.

" I have never discussed money with any of these girls. I treat it like its any other date, we fuck, then I give them a gift ".

JL, this is not the spirit of the Sugar bowl. But go for it if it works for you (which it did not this time) A true sugar arrangement is a business deal and it is important IMHO to set the tone with the POT SB. I make it clear up front what I am looking for (=sex) ,not a date. And I ask her what she expects out of the arrangement. Only if she doesn't offer an opinion will I gift her after the deed is done. But # 1 up front is the FC visit no matter what. No sex =no allowance.

" we decided to go bar hopping and have some drinks. Problem was, she picked the bars and they were all extremely loud ".

The thing is, I am all about getting that little Baby into the FC ASAP. Going to bars is unnecessary and distracts her from you. Also excessive boozing results in a drunk baby and you don't need that in the bowl. That is a dating technique to loosen inhibitions. In the SB it is a foregone conclusion. Of course, if that is what you like YMMV.

[JZLizard]

I always give her gifts when we see each other. I won't do allowances unless we're local and we're seeing each other frequently during the week (which has yet to happen during my sugar career). I can't cut back much more than I already am, because I only see her once or twice a month. The next inevitable step will be to cut her out for good.

If you want to keep her around as a transitional piece of ass until you find something better, you can cut back in payment amount rather than frequency of visit. Just tell her if she's not going to adhere to the original agreement you're going to have to dock the per visit gift by 30% to see what she says. I wouldn't count on a positive reaction, but it sounds like you're already considering cutting ties anyway so why not shoot for discount pussy and make your point at the same time?

[FotoGuy1970]

Have you been paying per visit or other allowance terms? If already per visit I'd say just cut back on visits with her, start spending dollars on others as opportunities arise. If she was on a regular allowance then just let her know what you know and that the prior agreement is null and void, but that you'd be interested in per-visit (assuming you are).

I have never really talked or thought much about exclusivity because of my existing relationship. I just assume they all have boyfriends or ex-bfs that still fuck them or that they will be out fucking guys their age for sport (or were recently). I would care of course if they agreed to one thing for a certain amount of money and then betrayed my trust, but I can't imagine putting that trust in any of these girls, especially when I already have a regular girlfriend. I go into most talks with girls with the idea that they have their life, I have mine, and the only thing I ask is that they are reliable / dependable and respect my time because at my point in my life and career my time truly is more valuable than theirs (monetarily I mean).

I always give her gifts when we see each other. I won't do allowances unless we're local and we're seeing each other frequently during the week (which has yet to happen during my sugar career). I can't cut back much more than I already am, because I only see her once or twice a month. The next inevitable step will be to cut her out for good.

[JZLizard]

I think the end of the line has been reached with the sub SB I've been seeing since the end of November. Part of our arrangement has been that we'd be exclusive to each other. But over the past few weeks, her social media has indicated that she's still seeing the boyfriend that she assured me was an ex. Then last weekend I see she's been logging on to OKCupid. And then today I see that she created a profile on SA. I hate to lose her because I like her a lot and if she had just stuck with everything that we agreed on, it would have been a long-term arrangement. But I'm dipping my toes back in the bowl to see what other young ladies I can find to replace her. I have CL ads up and I reupped with SA. Crossing my fingers that I'll get a keeper.

Have you been paying per visit or other allowance terms? If already per visit I'd say just cut back on visits with her, start spending dollars on others as opportunities arise. If she was on a regular allowance then just let her know what you know and that the prior agreement is null and void, but that you'd be interested in per-visit (assuming you are).

I have never really talked or thought much about exclusivity because of my existing relationship. I just assume they all have boyfriends or ex-bfs that still fuck them or that they will be out fucking guys their age for sport (or were recently). I would care of course if they agreed to one thing for a certain amount of money and then betrayed my trust, but I can't imagine putting that trust in any of these girls, especially when I already have a regular girlfriend. I go into most talks with girls with the idea that they have their life, I have mine, and the only thing I ask is that they are reliable / dependable and respect my time because at my point in my life and career my time truly is more valuable than theirs (monetarily I mean).

[FotoGuy1970]

I think the end of the line has been reached with the sub SB I've been seeing since the end of November. Part of our arrangement has been that we'd be exclusive to each other. But over the past few weeks, her social media has indicated that she's still seeing the boyfriend that she assured me was an ex. Then last weekend I see she's been logging on to OKCupid. And then today I see that she created a profile on SA. I hate to lose her because I like her a lot and if she had just stuck with everything that we agreed on, it would have been a long-term arrangement. But I'm dipping my toes back in the bowl to see what other young ladies I can find to replace her. I have CL ads up and I reupped with SA. Crossing my fingers that I'll get a keeper.

[HollywoodGuy]

The ideal SB experience for me is to be the first guy to pay for it. I love breaking the non pro cherry. And at this point I am sticking to my demographic like glue 90% of the time. 18 to 22 AA or mixed spinners.

The key is hitting them up the very first day they put their profile on the site. They are going to be overwhelmed with messages. It could be anywhere from 20 to literally hundreds. Yours has to stand out.

Tell them exactly what you want and what you are willing to donate. Give them a hint or two about what turns you on and why you find them attractive in a very specific way that can't sound like bs. Not oh baby you're so cute or anything like that.

Today this girl I had been txting since she got on the site the day before seemed very eager to meet but she kept pushing the time back and back and back. But she finally did meet me at 11 pm at a restaurant near my house. I had a quick bite to eat (she ordered nothing) and asked her if she wanted to see my place. We went in my car and left hers in the lot.

We walked through the door and wasted no time going at it. And she liked being told what to do and liked it rough. Nothing sexier than a tiny girl that likes to be man handled. Tiny as in 5'1' and 101 lbs. On the way back I stopped at the ATM and gave her the $ we had agreed on. She was absolutely beaming and said it felt thrilling.

She is a HCB at a top tier university on a full scholarship. Speaks four languages fluently. I had never spoken to her prior to the meet. Only txting. Her British accent caught me by surprise. I love a totally submissive girl that does whatever daddy tells her to do. Definitely going to see her again. 7/9/10/8. And that 8 will easily be going up to a 9 by the second date. She was a happy girl tonite.