"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

**FredMoore** · 11-20-13 09:53

Originally Posted by NUG33 [View Original Post]

Bad. So I dropped $200 night before, bought alcohol for hotel room, and gave her $100 cash afterwards. She wasn't happy. She also spent night when not having sex, asking if I can buy this or that for her the next week. Well after my cash gift, she got pissed and wanted more. I told her no, you'll get more during next visit, I spent enough total on this one. She was NOT happy, I dropped her off and haven't talked with her since.

So I guess my question to you veterans and what I need to work on, is how I can find and attract quality baby material that's happy with what I think is a decent donation. So many girls want me to support them, and I try to explain I'm there to supplement their income.

Sorry if my first post is so long. Lots more fun stories to come. Enjoyed everyone else's stories so much, I have to give back. Thanks!

Welcome to the bowl Nug. We have talked extensively about the wisdom of discussing Sugar before or giving the SB a gift afterwards and hoping for the best. I believe nailing down the expectations before the fact is always the best. I think it is best to do at the M&G after you see each other. Many women will give it up cheaper if they are attracted to you rather than throw some high number out there for some stranger. Some girls won't talk about it though. Obviously she had higher expectations for the FC and assumed the $200 was for the privilege of having dinner with you and a little playing around. Unrealistic expectation all around. Hookers are clear about their expectations and that is where you have to transition to the private world. These Babies are still hookers of a sort but don't want to think of themselves that way, so it's a delicate dance.

A 19 yr old 9/9/9/8 I saw recently would not say what she expected even though I asked several times. She was awesome and I gave her $$ for 2 hours of her time which is a little less than my usual but I was getting out of the biz for a while. When I asked for a repeat performance she wanted me to pay her entire tuition bill at $1000 which I declined to do. She was not happy but I blame it on her since she was not forthcoming with her wants. You don't ask, you don't get.

Take special note of Hollywood and Big Tigg's entries here. They seem to have the most success at keeping the CPO down to an incredibly low level compared to most of us. All you have to do is put your budgeted offer out there. Depending on the area you are in and your attractiveness you will get less takers but the ones you get will be down with your number.

**J Martinez** · 11-20-13 01:56

Originally Posted by NUG33 [View Original Post]

...
So I guess my question to you veterans and what I need to work on, is how I can find and attract quality baby material that's happy with what I think is a decent donation. So many girls want me to support them, and I try to explain I'm there to supplement their income.

Sorry if my first post is so long. Lots more fun stories to come. Enjoyed everyone else's stories so much, I have to give back. Thanks!

I'm by no means the veteran here. But it's obvious to me the 'sugar' or 'allowance' was not clear before the FC began. And secondly, it's sugar for FC. Period! These SBs will bleed you dry if you're wishy washy about the terms.

**HollywoodGuy** · 11-19-13 19:11

Originally Posted by Revvo [View Original Post]

This has been a long term project and is going well.Revvo.

Hope your investment pays off.. I may or may not start down that road. I invest a lot of time into txting and a lot of these girls aren't old enough to drink (which I love) and couldn't decipher a menu without pictures. But from reading many posts I know there is a value in the wining and dining. I just haven't really tried it. Just very minimally.

**NUG33** · 11-19-13 16:34

First off, I want to say thanks to all the senior members and veterans that created this great thread for us guys later to follow and learn from. The bowl is a frustrating, yet wonderful adventure. Its awesome learning and taking my game to next level. Which is why I'm posting, I left and stopped using the pros a while ago, and switched to utr and non-pros, largely due to this thread.

So my first experience in the bowl was an ex-stripper who was still beautiful. She was actually a couple years older than me (I'm in late 30's). She would do any nasty thing I wanted, and sometimes shit I didn't want, she is still around, but I transitioned to the younger girls. And here is where I need help. Getting these girls to accept lower funds and stop acting like GPS. Like this weekend.

So I meet this cute little native american on craigslist last week. She responded to SD ad. Definite non-pro 7.5/9/9/8 nice cute spinner body, just my type. So we do MG Thursday, and I get tricked into dropping $200 at her favorite shopping place. Was thinking with little head. Thought I was going to get something in return, got a little play and head, but promised the world at FC next day. So Friday comes along, I grab nice hotel on beach for cheap, using hh points, pick up baby, and fun begins. Guys, I was 19 again I hit that at least 5-6 times, she was sore bad by morning. Thats the great part.

Bad. So I dropped $200 night before, bought alcohol for hotel room, and gave her $100 cash afterwards. She wasn't happy. She also spent night when not having sex, asking if I can buy this or that for her the next week. Well after my cash gift, she got pissed and wanted more. I told her no, you'll get more during next visit, I spent enough total on this one. She was NOT happy, I dropped her off and haven't talked with her since.

So I guess my question to you veterans and what I need to work on, is how I can find and attract quality baby material that's happy with what I think is a decent donation. So many girls want me to support them, and I try to explain I'm there to supplement their income.

Sorry if my first post is so long. Lots more fun stories to come. Enjoyed everyone else's stories so much, I have to give back. Thanks!

**FredMoore** · 11-19-13 12:01

Revvo and BT, you guys are banging it and are an inspiration to us all. I don't know how you keep it all straight (and afford it) .

I've been there before and it is difficult keeping them all paid and happy. This reminds me of a story about the pet monkey who saw this bowl of treats on the bench near his cage. The bowl had a narrow neck and as he dug in and ate he got even hungrier, so he got even bigger handfuls of candy making him even hungrier. It was never enough to sate him so he grabbed even bigger fistfuls of treats until finally he was unable to open his hand to let go of enough treats to get his hand out. Hours went by until his master came in to break the jar and get his hand out, but not in time to prevent the damage to his hand. So the end of the story is that he had to jack off with his other hand for a month until his wounds healed lololol. Anyway, when is too much?? I wish I knew. I know I want more than I have now.

**Revvo** · 11-19-13 11:46

See reference below. So about three weeks ago. I saw a reference to a very hot looking POT. On SDforme. So I checked out her profile. Very hot, nice slender body. Professional shots like modeling. And she said she was starting modeling. Even though she is single never married 30 YO Latina, 5'7" about a size 2, nice figure small breasts maybe a be cup. I give her a 9.5/9.5/8/? . But her profile was rough. Rough as in detected an attitude like she was a bit angry. Not happy with the results of the site. Which is typical. Just too abrasive. But then about a week later she contacts me.

We start talking and I decide (and this is important) that no matter what I am not going to be too available or too easy. Polite but not too accommodating. I was in an abundance mentality at the time and certainly did not need her. She was a true amateur, and it showed. She had never done anything like this before and she needed help with money. Moved back in with her parents, and was starting a new job, and just signed a modeling contract. When she contacted me she wanted to talk money right off the bat. First thing I did was slow down the pace. She got back on the money thing again and so I flipped it. And said ok lets get down to business. What do you want? When I did this she backed off a little cause it made her feel cheap. A pro would have bit instantly.

I then knew the money was important but still was a problem for her. Good sign. So I got her talking on the phone. And calmed her down a little. She wanted 1500 per month allowance and I told her could not do that. Then told her 150 per visit. And she did not like that. On top of this she was the type of woman you do not get close to easy. I could see she is cool and a decent person down deep. But that it takes some digging to get to her soft side. So I put her in the 5% probability category. And I told her outright that is what I can do. And not only do I need her acceptance. I need her to be happy with her decision. Or I will pull the plug on it, this helps her see I am not too eager. She is still not sure and tells me she will meet and we can talk about it. She misses the meeting due to work. Then I have to go out of town for a full week.

When I get back we set up a meet. She also told me she is talking to other guys. I encouraged her to do this. In fact I would hear her voice on the phone when I did this. She was struck by my attitude of hands off. She is not used to this. She is used to guys controlling and trying to come at her hard. This was a good thing. I also knew most guys on the site are jerks to these girls or act like douches. I also know I could not control her anyway. She is not the type.

So we meet after I get back. Goes really well. We have some drinks. I get her laughing and out of the business mode. And into fun mode. In fact I distinctly remember when the mood changed to her starting to relax and feel the moment. She definitely started being more affectionate and sensuous. She was now ripe.

We had come a long way. Now it went from 5% probability to 90% probability. It was getting good. Lots of touching all over and she was even touching me a little. Did not let me kiss her in the bar though and apologized profusely saying she did not want to look like a gold digger. I stored that in my memory for later. (does not want to be a gold digger) very good sign. She is honest to a fault and does have a very soft sensuous side to her. Just have to ease it out of her. And it is working.

So now she has accepted the 150 and when she gets her own apartment I will have a place to go without hotel, and to top it off she is absolutely beautiful. She has her first modeling gig today. Big dark eyes, and sexy mouth, flat belly very very sexy way about her. And at 30 I am sure her skills are going to be good. That we will find out on Thursday.

Of course this all could blow up in my face at any time. But I did move her way up my list. This has been a long term project and is going well.

Lets be careful out there.

Revvo.

**Revvo** · 11-19-13 11:13

Originally Posted by BigTigger [View Original Post]

So I did my normal good morning texts yesterday and counted up 10. So I shook my head and decided to really scale back. I will narrow thus down to 3 or 4. TheDuo and MsSlimCheerleader for sure.

Had a great 4 hours with MsSlimCheerleader. She has gotten better and better each time. $ per visit and gifts. She is a keeper, overnight with her on Thursday. I am so glad I did not dump her after the first meeting.

I meet MsBody on Friday for lunch. A get reacquainted lunch. (5/10/10/unknown) Such a delima.

Many others have faded away or I am just not interacting with them much. Life is busy, don't really have the time for too much activity.

BT.

Brother Tigg,

I am in the same boat. I am currently working three regulars. Two new babies that I had to let go. Two nearby POTs (next city over) that I am working slow because I don't have the time. But they are ready to POP. And one new smoking hot POT that is scheduled for the FC on Thursday, report to follow.

I literally am doing the same thing. What do I do with it all? I don't have the time or the stamina or the money to do them all. I had two FC visits scheuled with my little girl next door this week Monday and Tuesday. She fucked me silly yesterday. And I am scheduled today. But she cannot make it because of her work. And strangely enough I am happy. Just because she wore me out yesterday. I need a fucking break. LOL.

I want to be ready for Wednesday with my Colombian princess, Thursday with my new hottie model, and Friday with my Venezuelan baby, still the best fuck of my life.

I need to step off this ride for a while. LOL And the funny thing is. If a POT ditches me or a baby does not communicate. I get all uptight like what is wrong? Funny isn't it? I should be happy with what I got. Hell I should be happy with half of what I got.

One way or another I am going to trim this down. Here is my priority so far.

1. Venezuealan baby.

2. Model hottie.

3. Colombian princess.

4. Girl Next door.

5. Sweetheart MILF POT.

6. Bisexual hottie POT.

7. Hygenist sexy POT.

Almost for sure the last two will be dropping off. But I am still working them for now. Almost for sure the two top ones will be there long term. Because they are consistent and good communicators. And that just leaves the three in the middle. Those are hard choices. More about events and attitude for them. Sweetheart MILF POT can probably stay because I don't have to see her all of the time. And she is not looking for money. Just a man of substance. Girl next door is my favorite, but she has too many life events going on. Makes it hard to stay consistent.

What a ride.

Revvo.

**BigTigger** · 11-19-13 10:30

I bought a small blue tooth speaker from Target for $70. Plays high quality music from any blue tooth compatible device. TheDuo loved it. Thy connected their phone and played their own music and put on a little show. Now, I grab this along with my toiletries bag every time. A must have.

Last night had my smooth R and B Pandora station playing. At some point the Cheerleader got on top reverse cowgirl and was working me over in rhythm to the music. It was like watching a x-rated music video.

Run out and get one immediately!

BigTigg.

**BigTigger** · 11-19-13 10:18

So I did my normal good morning texts yesterday and counted up 10. So I shook my head and decided to really scale back. I will narrow thus down to 3 or 4. TheDuo and MsSlimCheerleader for sure.

Had a great 4 hours with MsSlimCheerleader. She has gotten better and better each time. $ per visit and gifts. She is a keeper, overnight with her on Thursday. I am so glad I did not dump her after the first meeting.

I meet MsBody on Friday for lunch. A get reacquainted lunch. (5/10/10/unknown) Such a delima.

Many others have faded away or I am just not interacting with them much. Life is busy, don't really have the time for too much activity.

BT.

**BigTigger** · 11-19-13 10:07

M&G went well. They are just two best friends looking for fun and new experiences. Faces 8.5 and 8. Bodies 7.5 and 7. Personalities 9.5.

They have never done this (SD / SB and Threesome) before and it showed. I was running late and it was late. They drove hour and half. So I got them a room.

I will update more later. But lots of laughing, flirting, kissing, etc. No sex this trip per se. One was ending her period and the other was starting. At some point before I left, I was deep french kissing one while the other had the Tiggastick in her mouth. We meet for the full experience on Friday.

They agreed to a naked double rear shot butt in the air photo on Friday, I will share.

BT.

**Revvo** · 11-19-13 10:05

Originally Posted by HollywoodGuy [View Original Post]

So I have to say that between girls needing money for the holidays and this whole new follow up strategy I can basically have sex 7 days a week at this point. But that is not going to happen because I need to rest up one or 2 days a week. If I see all 3 of my regular girls once or twice in a week, I can maybe squeeze in one new interview a week.

I can not stress strongly enough the value of following up about 30 days later. There is a whole other type of girl that is just waiting to see who in their mind is genuine by being persistent enough to get their attention. These girls are in 3 major categories so far. GPS girls that will wait for the big score. UTR girls that figure a real SD, even if he pays less is worth it for the long term steady dollars (while they look for the illusory score) . And then the true non pro girls that are a bit sketchy about jumping in to the bowl a little too quickly. Although in the last week I have had a few ready to jump immediately. I have 2 txting me now as I write this.

The GPS girls were all 10's... The UTR's have been 8's and 9's. The non pros have been 7's to 10's.

I am only working my personal demographic to get these results. AA or mixed girls. Spinners or petite between 18 and 22. Must be willing to accept $ per visit. Right now scheduling and libido are my biggest problems. The demand definitely exceeds the supply.

And this is supply side economics in favor of the men. So don't give in. Your cash is always green.

I too have noticed this. Not in such an organized fashion. But there were certain ones that I had a great interest in and followed up with them. And I noticed that the response was sometimes good. I am noticing what you are doing Hollywood and taking notes. Can't do anything right now. Because basically I am knee deep in pussy. And scheduling and libido, like you said is my biggest problem. I have one of my regulars back from sick leave. And I have a new very hot full time baby that wants the dick at a minimum of once a week. And so I could not do anything with any new ones anyway.

In fact I have had to reject two substandard babies that I did a couple of weeks ago. Just to clear things out a little. But you never know. Next week I could have nothing in the queue. This is a very fluid business indeed.

Good luck. And rest up my brother.

Revvo.

**HollywoodGuy** · 11-19-13 03:00

Been on 3 m and g's in the last 7 days or so. The first one was 2 dates in 2 days. Wasn't attracted to her. She has txted and emailed me and is obviously ready for the FC, but not me. When they do this. Never, never, never respond. It's cold, but it's the only way.

The second one I reported on already. The 40 minute BJ girl. Not likely to repeat unless she offers up the whole package. Then maybe.

The third was tonite. Far less attractive than her pics which made her look sexy and exotic. She was bland and boring. Glad I got her off my list. On to the next one.

In order they were 24,18 and 20. The only one that was in the ballpark was the 18 year old spinner. The other 2 were poppin as my roommate would say. As in poppin out of their jeans, and not in a good way.

But in between all that I managed to see my old SB from 4 years ago that I had on allowance for 8 months. I unfortunately have bouts of peripheral neuropathy in my feet. And she magically made it disappear with her expert massage technique after the playtime ended. We have officially decided to continue seeing each other whenever I can fit her in. She is a really low drama sweet girl and a pleaser.

**HollywoodGuy** · 11-18-13 23:55

So I have to say that between girls needing money for the holidays and this whole new follow up strategy I can basically have sex 7 days a week at this point. But that is not going to happen because I need to rest up one or 2 days a week. If I see all 3 of my regular girls once or twice in a week, I can maybe squeeze in one new interview a week.

I can not stress strongly enough the value of following up about 30 days later. There is a whole other type of girl that is just waiting to see who in their mind is genuine by being persistent enough to get their attention. These girls are in 3 major categories so far. GPS girls that will wait for the big score. UTR girls that figure a real SD, even if he pays less is worth it for the long term steady dollars (while they look for the illusory score) . And then the true non pro girls that are a bit sketchy about jumping in to the bowl a little too quickly. Although in the last week I have had a few ready to jump immediately. I have 2 txting me now as I write this.

The GPS girls were all 10's... The UTR's have been 8's and 9's. The non pros have been 7's to 10's.

I am only working my personal demographic to get these results. AA or mixed girls. Spinners or petite between 18 and 22. Must be willing to accept $ per visit. Right now scheduling and libido are my biggest problems. The demand definitely exceeds the supply.

And this is supply side economics in favor of the men. So don't give in. Your cash is always green.

**HollywoodGuy** · 11-18-13 13:14

Originally Posted by Revvo [View Original Post]

Never thought of this way. But what a good point. It's almost like the implied pussy / emotions is more valuable. But at this point are we really talking about value? More like pure naked manipulation.

Revvo.

And that's what some of these girls try to do. I have read it on here dozens of times. About all their issues and problems, inability to pay rent, etc. Just remember, you didn't cause that problem and its not your responsibility to fix it. But we have all felt the desire to want to help out even when it's not our place to do so. Or we would just go to AMP's or cruise for SW's. Our world does bring a certain amount of emotional attachment, especially with our ATF's. And if you have been with a girl for 6 months or more it can get sticky sometimes.

I have paid sugar alimony more than once (sometimes deserved, other times not), and still do here and there.

**Revvo** · 11-18-13 10:26

Originally Posted by HollywoodGuy [View Original Post]

A old friend of mine (now dead). Who was a gay gigolo that only married women for their money. And who at one time owned the largest home in Beverly Hills told me. "Taking money for sex was easy and usually low paying. But taking money without it was the true test of a pros worth." So to answer your question, the answer is no. And its obvious to me every time I see some nasty fugly old babe in BH with her loser rich husband. The smart ones know how to work it. The other persons emotions that is.

So the ability to play on ones emotions is far more valuable than pussy. All those knock out 10's that have been hitting me up this weekend for 4 and 5 benji's aren't living in Beverly Hills. The moral of the story. Keep it cool.

Never thought of this way. But what a good point. It's almost like the implied pussy / emotions is more valuable. But at this point are we really talking about value? More like pure naked manipulation.

Revvo.