"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Dog Rice]

Hernando bro,

I hear you, bro. Last month, I scored none. Zero SB. Got tons of text / mails. Similar to you, I messaged them first day they joined, and got a lot of interactions. Once M&G is scheduled, radio silent. Learned from my past experience, I texted them a couple of hours before the M&G, and told them that I won't be there if they won't send me a confirmation. Beside young SBs, several MILFs were like that as well.

In fact, I got a text from one of these MILFs 3 am in the morning asking me to book a room for her and her daughters because her ex is scaring them. I texted her back in the morning saying that I am not comfortable of doing it since we never met. This MILF: we scheduled M&G 3 times before and she backed out all.

I stopped renewing my SDFM account and is taking a break now.

Flakes have a direct correlation to young new listers. I have lost 3 18 to 19 yr olds in the last month. I swore I wouldn't do teens anymore but they are so irresistible. The new posters get a huge amount of attention from us all. We all know to jump on them fast and hard. Also for me it is nice to break one in if she is truly naive. The scenario is probably the same for us all. You chat them up quickly and text back and forth. Then you make a M&G appointment all within a week. The day of the meet she goes silent. 3 times I tell you this month! Everything seems perfect and she says she is excited to meet, and boom! Gone. I agree with Hollywood that you have got to meet them in the first day or two. They get cold feet, get a million other offers, and blow you off. Many of them come back around because they find the grass is not greener with the fantastical offers. Mr Big bangs them and moves on. Those of us who are looking for longer term SBs have to wait out the flush before they circle back around.

[John G Smith]

Walruscl. Yes, it's been mentioned that with Long Term SBs, it's very likely they'll eventually find out your real identity. Either there will be a slip-up on your part, hotel receipts, car registration, and etc or you'll just flat out tell her. If you know her personality type (a non-vindictive person) and there's mutually assured destruction, then disclosing IDs can be a non-lethal risk. And you really shouldn't do such disclosures until you've had your first argument, so you know how she acts when she's agitated or upset with you. And even then, I wouldn't show my LT SB directly where I live / work. I'll still let her try to figure it out, so there's some degree of uncertainty.

I've had three SBs know my real identity. Two were long-term SBs and one was a resourceful Pot SB who found a chink in my cover. With the two LT SBs I never had any problems and I had a lot of info on them as well. With one of them we've remained good friends and I know she would never do anything to harm me or my family. I had some info on the Pot SB, but I wasn't really comfortable with that situation so I quietly let her lose interest in me.

Once you cross the line and a SB knows your identity, then you MUST make sure when the arrangement / relationship ends that it's mostly on good terms. And even if the breakup is a bit rocky initially, you need to make sure you smooth things over within a couple of months so there's no lingering bitterness. After all, once a SB knows your identity she can theoretically pop into your life unannounced at a moment's notice at any time. A month from now or 2-3 years from now. And you never know, a nice girl today could end up being a Nando1 a few years from now. That's why so many guys here say NEVER blow your cover because there's no going back. There will always be a liability hanging out there.

That said, I totally feel you about the headaches of basically maintaining two covers. It's why despite the advice in this thread, once I'm with a LT SB who I trust more or less, I let her know my real name and do limited disclosures. It just makes my time together with her a lot more relaxing and less stressful. Generally with a LT SB, I may spend the whole day with them and it's just much easier not having to hide hotel bills, paying for alcohol, watching how I refer to myself in conversations, and etc. It's a definite risk, but we're all taking risks when we enter this lifestyle. It's just about the type of risks you're comfortable with accepting and avoiding unnecessary risks. The latter is subjective though. One man's necessary risk is another man's foolish errand.

[Hernando]

I feel you on the Flakes brother. I have always been the want it here now, and I want more type of person. So flakes have been a great character builder for me.

They have always frustrated me. I was on SA but found too many crazies and pros. I prefer SDFORme but the flake factor can be high. The younger the higher the flakes, the hotter the higher the flakes, the newer to the game the higher the flakes. Many times it is just a hot chick getting a better offer. Imagine what it would be like if you were young beautiful immature and guys were making you all kinds of offers all over the place. What would you do?

Good luck. Keep writing.

Revvo

Flakes have a direct correlation to young new listers. I have lost 3 18 to 19 yr olds in the last month. I swore I wouldn't do teens anymore but they are so irresistible. The new posters get a huge amount of attention from us all. We all know to jump on them fast and hard. Also for me it is nice to break one in if she is truly naive. The scenario is probably the same for us all. You chat them up quickly and text back and forth. Then you make a M&G appointment all within a week. The day of the meet she goes silent. 3 times I tell you this month! Everything seems perfect and she says she is excited to meet, and boom! Gone. I agree with Hollywood that you have got to meet them in the first day or two. They get cold feet, get a million other offers, and blow you off. Many of them come back around because they find the grass is not greener with the fantastical offers. Mr Big bangs them and moves on. Those of us who are looking for longer term SBs have to wait out the flush before they circle back around.

[HollywoodGuy]

I had a bad month last month, and so I tried to spend what free time I had building my bench back-up.

One thing I've noticed about SD4M is that it is MUCH easier to get a response from women than compared to AM, but the flake factor is much higher. Part of this is that I need to adjust my game a bit, and I think also part of it is that the women are motivated differently. But, I've had several girls just vanish after I thought the email / txt'ing was going well. Is this normal?

As for rebuilding my bench, earlier this week I thought things were going well. I had five solid potentials:

1. 22 yod Jamaican fresh off the boat. 7/8/7?

2. 26 yod AA with her own car and place. 7/7/8?

3. 21 year old Dominican 10/10/7?

4. 19 year AA 8/9/8?

5. 19 year AA 9/9/9?

#1 wanted $500 per meeting after a week of great txt'ing. I passed.

#2 has vanished which is a shame as being able to host would have removed LOTS of logistical issues.

I had a M&G scheduled for #3 today, but she cancelled. I suspect a better prospect emerged as she's new. She wants to skype with me next week when I'm in LA. I guess she's keeping her options open.

I had a M&G with #4, and things were going well. I might have pushed a little too much after the M&G, and now she's "moving to NYC". She never had a SD before, and I think she was expecting that sex wasn't going to be involved.

#5 is still an enigma mostly. We've set a dinner date for when I return from LA. We'll see where it goes.

On the non-SB front, my greek MILF has returned. My KAL hottie that wants to start a family still wants to meet until she can find Mr. Right. I think she just likes crashing at my corporate apartment in Santa Monica!

On SD4ME, get 'them when they sign up and meet them within a few days or lose them most of the time. Unless they are UTR

[HollywoodGuy]

F. Scott points out the MAJOR hole with Green Dot. You have to use a valid SSN. Years ago I was able to get one by saying to the rep I forgot my SSN. I ditched that card once I married. And I wish I hadn't. Since the Patriot Act. Trying to get a card without a SSN is a no-go now, or my social engineering skills aren't what they use to be.

If you ever need to get a credit report for a mortgage / refinance etc, the Green Dot is going to show up. Then, you have some splaining to do Lucy if your wife or SO looks at the credit report.

I put a fair amount of time in attempts to find a card that is renewable and you don't have to provide a SSN. Most of what I found were very sketchy cards for people to gamble online.

What I do now is reserve rooms with a personal card that has my office address, and pay in cash at check-in. Be careful that the type of reservation ISN'T pre-paid. Also be sure and pay at check-in. Some hotels now run your card at midnight.

There's a small risk with the above approach as the hotel does a card validity check. A private detective would have to be really good to get that info. If the info is even kept (I originally thought not. But now a days I think everything is kept).

Put the green dot in the girls name? Have her make the purchases, room rentals, etc.

[Revvo]

One thing I've noticed about SD4M is that it is MUCH easier to get a response from women than compared to AM, but the flake factor is much higher. Part of this is that I need to adjust my game a bit, and I think also part of it is that the women are motivated differently. But, I've had several girls just vanish after I thought the email / txt'ing was going well. Is this normal?

I feel you on the Flakes brother. I have always been the want it here now, and I want more type of person. So flakes have been a great character builder for me.

They have always frustrated me. I was on SA but found too many crazies and pros. I prefer SDFORme but the flake factor can be high. The younger the higher the flakes, the hotter the higher the flakes, the newer to the game the higher the flakes. Many times it is just a hot chick getting a better offer. Imagine what it would be like if you were young beautiful immature and guys were making you all kinds of offers all over the place. What would you do?

It is a challenge. I have fucked a lot of them and still go into phases where they just don't seem to respond well. So yes tune up your game. Stay confident and remember. There will be another 100 more babies on that site tomorrow. And the next day and the next.

I need to learn more from Hollywood on qualifying and getting that part right.

Good luck. Keep writing.

Revvo

[BikeRider]

I had a bad month last month, and so I tried to spend what free time I had building my bench back-up.

One thing I've noticed about SD4M is that it is MUCH easier to get a response from women than compared to AM, but the flake factor is much higher. Part of this is that I need to adjust my game a bit, and I think also part of it is that the women are motivated differently. But, I've had several girls just vanish after I thought the email / txt'ing was going well. Is this normal?

As for rebuilding my bench, earlier this week I thought things were going well. I had five solid potentials:

1. 22 yod Jamaican fresh off the boat. 7/8/7?

2. 26 yod AA with her own car and place. 7/7/8?

3. 21 year old Dominican 10/10/7?

4. 19 year AA 8/9/8?

5. 19 year AA 9/9/9?

#1 wanted $500 per meeting after a week of great txt'ing. I passed.

#2 has vanished which is a shame as being able to host would have removed LOTS of logistical issues.

I had a M&G scheduled for #3 today, but she cancelled. I suspect a better prospect emerged as she's new. She wants to skype with me next week when I'm in LA. I guess she's keeping her options open.

I had a M&G with #4, and things were going well. I might have pushed a little too much after the M&G, and now she's "moving to NYC". She never had a SD before, and I think she was expecting that sex wasn't going to be involved.

#5 is still an enigma mostly. We've set a dinner date for when I return from LA. We'll see where it goes.

On the non-SB front, my greek MILF has returned. My KAL hottie that wants to start a family still wants to meet until she can find Mr. Right. I think she just likes crashing at my corporate apartment in Santa Monica!

[BikeRider]

Great comments by Revvo and John. I plan to use GV and hoping there is no back tracing to your personal info.

I use GV for txting and calling. But I have only 1 cell which is used for business. So need to be careful. I fwd the txts from GV to my cell and try not to call using my cell. Calling is big problem. As my BB doesn't allow calling using Google voice. I may have to get a burner phone.

If you forward GV to phone registered to your name, Google can make the connection easily.

I use GV and a burner phone. I only forward to my phone prior to a meeting. I give my burner number to women whom I trust enough not to become stalkers or such. A rare few over the years have been given my personal number.

I like GV because I can also send and receive txt on my computer. To prevent Google from connecting the account to real me, I use a Virtual Machine (VM) that is used ONLY for mongering. The VM is encrypted on my laptop. I VPN (VPN account purchased via a gift card) from the virtual machine at boot. This way, hopefully, my mongering account cookies and IP's are never connected to the real me.

While the above seems pretty paranoid,"only the paranoid survive" as said by Andy Grove. The good of the above is that I think it does a reasonable job of keeping a wide moot between real me and monger me. The down side is I've noticed lately that making online purchases while VPN'd are often denied. In those cases, I usually am able to make the purchase from my burner phone.

I'd be curious to hear from any divorce lawyers on what and what can't be subpoenaed in a civil divorce case.

[Walruscl]

So, brothers, an unexpected twist in my journey. Pardon the novella.

Given that this pretty much violates all of the rules and collected wisdom here, I do not recommend that anyone follow in my footsteps. Although I would be interested to hear of those that did and had good outcomes.

I also apologize for how light on details I'm going to be. Perhaps I'm being excessively cautious (which will be laden with irony in a moment) , but the less identifiable the incident, the more comfortable I feel about mine and my SB's anonymity. I'll also ask that why'all give me some benefit of the doubt. I did think long and hard about doing what I did, and we had a very long heart-to-heart talk about where this was going to go before I took the leap.

So, without further ado.

Like most of you, I find "deep cover" to be an intense challenge. For me, also a source of stress. But when a thermonuclear event hangs in the balance, you do what you have to. And I've been doing a decent job of it, with the exception that if hotels suddenly started posting their nightly guest list to the Internet I'd be totally cooked.

But then, in the process of arranging a visit to the FC, I ran into a combination of logistic hurdles that had me over a barrel. This particular visit had been planned, cancelled, planned again, cancelled, and the ducks were finally in a row. So when things started to go awry, I was very motivated to keep things on track, which is partly how I ended up where I did.

The overall shape of the situation was that the initial logistic hurdle was pretty much going to guarantee a blown cover. Additionally, at least for this somewhat unique visit, there were some other sudden complications that were most easily solved by just dispensing with deep cover.

Which is exactly what I did.

I already knew where she worked, almost exactly where she lived, and it was clear that I could at least make life very complicated for her if I wanted to. During our heart-to-heart, I mentioned this and assured her that I had no desire to or interest in doing anything remotely like that. But the fact remained that I'd really only be comfortable if there were some "Mutually Assured Destruction" dynamic in place. So to her credit, my SB broke her cover first, before I even committed to doing so myself. She also told me some of her deeper secrets (which were verifiable later) , the nature of which made it even more clear that if I wanted to cause trouble, it would cut deep.

Of course, a young SB always has much less to lose than a SD in a stable family.

But as I've read time and again here, the odds of sustaining deep cover with a long-term SB go down over time. So in some ways this was just another point on the risk continuum, and was probably inevitable anyway. It helped that even though the MAD was still asymmetric, it wasn't as asymmetric as most.

While I've only known her for a couple of months, we've communicated every day. Her biggest fault seems to be that she suffered some unusually harsh consequences to what were fairly normal lapses in adolescent judgment. Yet despite it all she has a sweet disposition, and there isn't the faintest whiff of vindictiveness. Which in the end was what finally tipped me.

So we traded peeks at our ID's, and rather than a hotel I took her to my guaranteed-to-be-empty-for-the-duration house. This introduced new dimensions to deep cover-leaving no trace in the house, not attracting notice of neighbors, etc. Having her there was a weird mix of relief yet new stress. So future home visits will be very rare. But in this specific case it made it much easier for me to maintain appearances.

So here I am, in this very unexpected place. On one hand, it feels like a big weight off my shoulders: only one deception to manage now. My SB made it very clear she understood what a big deal this was, and was honored (her words) to be able to share in a piece of the world I inhabit. If my demeanor didn't make it obvious that I lead a comfortable if unglamorous life, seeing it in person certainly should have.

On the other hand, I'm keenly aware that I've potentially added another fuse to the time bomb. But the time bomb was there to begin with, and there's innumerable ways it could blow. From the war stories here it seems like it's usually the thing you *don't* see coming that sets it off.

One could argue that perhaps I shouldn't be in the bowl to begin with. My deep cover collapsed in a matter of months. I certainly wouldn't be able to multi-task like some of the superstars on here. I'm fortunate to have found one very nice situation, and I'm enjoying it while it lasts. It's unclear that once it inevitably passes that I would have the fortitude to do it again. With the mind-bending memories we're making in the meantime, I'm not sure I'll have the need.

Be more careful than me out there.

[BikeRider]

Greg,

Pay for everything you can with cash. Cash is your best friend. I've gotten discounts on hotel rooms when I show up and say I'm paying with Bennies. I've also gotten the clerk to erase my info from the computers. Look into Greendot cards, both for yourself and your babies. You can buy them with cash and refill them that way as well. Use them to book rooms online, pay for your meds (if you need them) , and use them when checking in for the "incidental charges." When you register the one for yourself, you will need to give them an address (I use my work one) and a valid SS. This is the one hole in the cloak of invisibility, but it is a small one unless your wife hires a lawyer, in which case your goose is cooked anyway. It won't be the point of first exposure if you've done everything else right as outlined in the clubhouse journal in past pages. And train yourself to throw away all receipts immediately, keep a "scrubbed" car, and clean out your pockets every day before you come home. Make it an inflexible routine and you lessen the chance of blowing your cover.

I forget if you told us, are you married?

Scott

F. Scott points out the MAJOR hole with Green Dot. You have to use a valid SSN. Years ago I was able to get one by saying to the rep I forgot my SSN. I ditched that card once I married. And I wish I hadn't. Since the Patriot Act. Trying to get a card without a SSN is a no-go now, or my social engineering skills aren't what they use to be.

If you ever need to get a credit report for a mortgage / refinance etc, the Green Dot is going to show up. Then, you have some splaining to do Lucy if your wife or SO looks at the credit report.

I put a fair amount of time in attempts to find a card that is renewable and you don't have to provide a SSN. Most of what I found were very sketchy cards for people to gamble online.

What I do now is reserve rooms with a personal card that has my office address, and pay in cash at check-in. Be careful that the type of reservation ISN'T pre-paid. Also be sure and pay at check-in. Some hotels now run your card at midnight.

There's a small risk with the above approach as the hotel does a card validity check. A private detective would have to be really good to get that info. If the info is even kept (I originally thought not. But now a days I think everything is kept).

[HollywoodGuy]

I am tired of all these detective stories. Lets see some pics.

[GeorgeRichmond]

Excellent points John G. Definitley play to your SO's weaknesses. Miine is not the thorough type. So this helps.

Since I use GV. I do not have a lot in my kit. Just condoms and Visa Gift Cards. So it is quite simple. I travel as light as I can. Little to keep track of.

Nothing is foolproof there will always be risk.

Revvo

Great comments by Revvo and John. I plan to use GV and hoping there is no back tracing to your personal info.

Scott: Yes, I am married. But my big problem is not getting my needs satisfied. My SO acknowledge that as well.

I am enjoying this world but one problem though.

SDs that I met. Are pro UTRs. They told me the allowance upfront and when I reduced my amount, they reduced their time and frequency. Like 2-3 hours per meet and only twice a month. All of you in same boat? This is local only. There are SBs who can meet all day but allowance is too high. The one in NJ, is otherway around. Allowance is secondary. Though I assume is required. She asked me 1 time and then. Never discussed. But spent all day with her. Outdoor followed by indoor activities.

At this time. Have 1 good local SB, but clock watcher. And pro. Like to get allowance first. Which kind of disappointing, even after 2 meets by now.

I use GV for txting and calling. But I have only 1 cell which is used for business. So need to be careful. I fwd the txts from GV to my cell and try not to call using my cell. Calling is big problem. As my BB doesn't allow calling using Google voice. I may have to get a burner phone.

[Revvo]

Excellent points John G. Definitley play to your SO's weaknesses. Miine is not the thorough type. So this helps.

Since I use GV. I do not have a lot in my kit. Just condoms and Visa Gift Cards. So it is quite simple. I travel as light as I can. Little to keep track of.

Nothing is foolproof there will always be risk.

Revvo

[John G Smith]

Revvo,

This is a great idea! Don't know why I didn't think of it before. Right now I have my "gear" scattered among several hiding places, which I sometimes change and then forget about, affording me a very Bracing shot of adrenaline until I find whatever it is, usually my phone. My one hesitation is that it brings all the incriminating evidence against you into one very convenient place, should it ever be found. Sort of like the "doomsday" packs the Bush administration was urging us to put together in case Bin Laden ever came calling, but in reverse. Instead of saving our lives, discovery of this kit would surely end it.

But I like the "grab and go" aspect. Out of curiosity, what all do you keep in there?

Scott

I agree with both points. Having a singular toolkit makes it easier for deployment and docking operations. But on the off chance you get interrupted on the way to the garage (maybe your SO happens to be outside when you come home) , you basically have a nuclear device strapped to your chest or sitting in the car. I also take the "scatter" approach with my gear. With this approach you probably run a higher risk of a single piece of a evidence getting exposed at some point but there's less risk of a catastrophic failure.

But to be honest, I've been trying to avoid having any "physical" gear to deal with around the house. I don't use a burner phone. I use a GV# which can be destroyed remotely within a few minutes if I have access to a computer. I don't keep any condoms, massage lotions, or toys around. If I buy them it's for a one-time use, then I toss them or let the SB store / keep them. Everything else of note is digital and I regularly do a "fire drill" to practice quickly scrubbing and locking accounts. If I ever sense there's a real danger of serious exposure or trouble, I can basically scrub my digital activities in 15 minutes via laptop or smartphone.

It's really just a matter of staying diligent and not getting too relaxed. You can have the greatest scrubbing / cleanup routine but it doesn't do any good if you get sloppy or complacent (which is exactly what happened to me). Your routine though should tailor your individual situation. Revvo said his SO is very short, so putting things in a high place in a room she never visits works well. For me, even though my SO is short she regularly uses foot-stools to reach high places and she goes through various parts of the house randomly, there's no "off-limits" zone for her. But when it comes to tech and computers, her knowledge is very minimal, so keeping things digital is safer for me than having a burner phone lying around somewhere. So your routine should really counteract your SO's strength and weaknesses.

[F Scott]

Gentlemen,

In perusing the journal as of late, it seems like many of us are winnowing our babies into one of three groups: keepers, one-offs and emergency-use-only.

With that in mind, I'd like to propose another acronym, BCB, or Booty Call Baby, for the latter category. I myself realize I have several of these, and they are usually hot-bodied little treasures, but will never make it into the realm of steady, regular rotation. They will never be ones that I deliberately make time for, but on the other hand I don't want to let them drift away.

Opinions?

Scott

Sorry, my brothers!
Did I miss the memo? I just read Fred's post, and it seems that this is already in play, at least by him. Bright minds and all that!

Carry on,

Scott