"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[JoesParty]

I've been dabbling in the SD / SB thing since the first of the year and subsequently been reading and following the exploits in everyone's reports / responses here. This is my first time posting so bear with me.

I've read conflicting reports about when it might be appropriate to "advance" substantial sugar (not just gas / babysitter money) before one receives any sugar. Here's my story.

Met and cultivated a young lady from SA. She made the initial contact. She wouldn't post pics on the site but after giving her my shadow email account, she sent pics to me there. Stunning is the only word for her. She is of mixed race with the best possible DNA combination she could have hoped for. Remember our first Miss America of color who was later stripped of her title? That was this POT SB but 26yo. And, a killer body. She is a student who had just moved to RVA to pursue a masters degree. Or at least that was her story. But it made sense since her SA profile listed her as being in Raleigh. So after a few email exchanges I ask if she would like to meet for lunch. We even spoke on the phone when I got tired of texting (hate those little keyboards!). Her response to my question of what were her expectations if we had some chemistry and wanted to start an arrangement was that her needs were modest. Just a little help now and then when things that were unexpected popped up. No talk of an allowance or what she might want per meeting. Just the type of situation I was looking for. So we set a date and time for our meet and greet with the idea of maybe $ for her to cover gas and to show a little good faith. The morning of our lunch day I get an email wondering if I could "advance" her $1800 so she could get her car out of the shop. She said it was a $4800 transmission replacement and she only had $3000. She had to have the "loaner" back that afternoon. She even said she wouldn't ask for anything for awhile, implying that it would go toward many future meetings. I responded by telling her that I wasn't prepared to assist her with that much and she needed to look for someone with a lot more disposable income and a more trusting nature. Never heard back from her.

So I ask you. Here I was, presented with what looked to me to be the potential for a perfect situation with a gorgeous girl and she steps up and asks for a LOT of scratch. Would anyone out there have taken a chance with this total stranger? Please tell me I did the right thing.

You absolutely did the right thing. This happened to me once, too. Only the money was supposedly to stave off eviction. My guess is that most of these requests come from scammers.

On advances in general, and I know this has been discussed before, never give more than you are prepared to lose forever. Never assume you'll be repaid. I speak from personal experience.

[Spoonie]

I've been dabbling in the SD / SB thing since the first of the year and subsequently been reading and following the exploits in everyone's reports / responses here. This is my first time posting so bear with me.

I've read conflicting reports about when it might be appropriate to "advance" substantial sugar (not just gas / babysitter money) before one receives any sugar. Here's my story.

Met and cultivated a young lady from SA. She made the initial contact. She wouldn't post pics on the site but after giving her my shadow email account, she sent pics to me there. Stunning is the only word for her. She is of mixed race with the best possible DNA combination she could have hoped for. Remember our first Miss America of color who was later stripped of her title? That was this POT SB but 26yo. And, a killer body. She is a student who had just moved to RVA to pursue a masters degree. Or at least that was her story. But it made sense since her SA profile listed her as being in Raleigh. So after a few email exchanges I ask if she would like to meet for lunch. We even spoke on the phone when I got tired of texting (hate those little keyboards!). Her response to my question of what were her expectations if we had some chemistry and wanted to start an arrangement was that her needs were modest. Just a little help now and then when things that were unexpected popped up. No talk of an allowance or what she might want per meeting. Just the type of situation I was looking for. So we set a date and time for our meet and greet with the idea of maybe $ for her to cover gas and to show a little good faith. The morning of our lunch day I get an email wondering if I could "advance" her $1800 so she could get her car out of the shop. She said it was a $4800 transmission replacement and she only had $3000. She had to have the "loaner" back that afternoon. She even said she wouldn't ask for anything for awhile, implying that it would go toward many future meetings. I responded by telling her that I wasn't prepared to assist her with that much and she needed to look for someone with a lot more disposable income and a more trusting nature. Never heard back from her.

So I ask you. Here I was, presented with what looked to me to be the potential for a perfect situation with a gorgeous girl and she steps up and asks for a LOT of scratch. Would anyone out there have taken a chance with this total stranger? Please tell me I did the right thing.

You did the right thing

[JoesParty]

My adorable HCB with whom I have had a regular affair for 1 1/2 years got a phone call at her work place from my W, who also talked to her boss, and also left a message on her parents VM about her seeing a married man. This slash and burn effort appears to have sunk my relationship which was the intended result. Talk about a dirty play, to hurt a young girl so deeply.

The moral of the story is don't get emotionally attached to a SB or don't play around at all as a married man. Also, be careful what you expose your SB to if you are married. Perhaps they shouldn't play in this arena with married men on the side. If they are young and inexperienced then they are vulnerable.

And, how can I ever consider re-establishing any sort of love relationship with a woman who would do this sort of thing?

Hernando,

I'm truly sorry you're enduring these trials, which I'm sure all of us married guys will agree is our worst nightmare. If we're being honest with each other, nobody in your situation is without fault. We could make all manner of excuses for your wife, but didn't our mamas teach us that two wrongs never make a right?

You ask how you could ever consider reestablishing a loving relationship with your wife; I think the question is whether you really want to or not. If you do, it will require no small amount of forgiveness by you for what she's done. (This assumes she is willing to forgive you, too.) I've seen relationships of family members torn apart by lingering resentment. If neither of you can let it go, it might be time to move on, or you'll be living in a constant state of tension.

Just my two cents, for what it's worth, because I've never been in your shoes (and knock on wood never will be).

[Hernando]

My adorable HCB with whom I have had a regular affair for 1 1/2 years got a phone call at her work place from my W, who also talked to her boss, and also left a message on her parents VM about her seeing a married man. This slash and burn effort appears to have sunk my relationship which was the intended result. Talk about a dirty play, to hurt a young girl so deeply.

The moral of the story is don't get emotionally attached to a SB or don't play around at all as a married man. Also, be careful what you expose your SB to if you are married. Perhaps they shouldn't play in this arena with married men on the side. If they are young and inexperienced then they are vulnerable.

And, how can I ever consider re-establishing any sort of love relationship with a woman who would do this sort of thing?

[AllSeasonLv]

I've been dabbling in the SD / SB thing since the first of the year and subsequently been reading and following the exploits in everyone's reports / responses here. This is my first time posting so bear with me.

I've read conflicting reports about when it might be appropriate to "advance" substantial sugar (not just gas / babysitter money) before one receives any sugar. Here's my story.

Met and cultivated a young lady from SA. She made the initial contact. She wouldn't post pics on the site but after giving her my shadow email account, she sent pics to me there. Stunning is the only word for her. She is of mixed race with the best possible DNA combination she could have hoped for. Remember our first Miss America of color who was later stripped of her title? That was this POT SB but 26yo. And, a killer body. She is a student who had just moved to RVA to pursue a masters degree. Or at least that was her story. But it made sense since her SA profile listed her as being in Raleigh. So after a few email exchanges I ask if she would like to meet for lunch. We even spoke on the phone when I got tired of texting (hate those little keyboards!). Her response to my question of what were her expectations if we had some chemistry and wanted to start an arrangement was that her needs were modest. Just a little help now and then when things that were unexpected popped up. No talk of an allowance or what she might want per meeting. Just the type of situation I was looking for. So we set a date and time for our meet and greet with the idea of maybe $ for her to cover gas and to show a little good faith. The morning of our lunch day I get an email wondering if I could "advance" her $1800 so she could get her car out of the shop. She said it was a $4800 transmission replacement and she only had $3000. She had to have the "loaner" back that afternoon. She even said she wouldn't ask for anything for awhile, implying that it would go toward many future meetings. I responded by telling her that I wasn't prepared to assist her with that much and she needed to look for someone with a lot more disposable income and a more trusting nature. Never heard back from her.

So I ask you. Here I was, presented with what looked to me to be the potential for a perfect situation with a gorgeous girl and she steps up and asks for a LOT of scratch. Would anyone out there have taken a chance with this total stranger? Please tell me I did the right thing.

[HollywoodGuy]

I've been running into a lot of Pot SB's that are focused on how much time you want to spend with them. As in the number hours your meeting will last. I have a real problem with that. If you want to get paid by the hour go be an escort. Meetings have a natural flow to them. Some are short. Other are more leisurely. Please share your thoughts on this subject.

How much time is enough?

SubCmdr Out

When I first meet a new girl I always agree to a dollar amount per hour. (and they are calculating like 2 to 4 hours in their head) and then when the hour is up I always tell them they can leave if they want to but I am only paying for the one hour. The ones that like you will never leave. They will see another guy when there is someone else offering more. But on the nights when they don't have anything else going on. They will see you rather than have nothing to do at all. And plenty of times even turn down more, because its you that they really want to be with. I have had overnights and all day dates many many times.

Its a take away. And it works.

[SubCmdr]

Definitely wasn't one of my finest hours. I think I had a bit of hubris and didn't think anything serious would happen. I've met quite a few local girls and never come close to having any issues. Lesson learned though.

Good evening Mr. Smith,

I was not taking a personal shot at you. It's was like a debrief after and operation. We look at the things we could have done better. It is all good! You haven't got a chance to read my screw up yet. I'm still writing it up. Happens to all of us my man. I like to send hostile text to spam. That way I can review it later. And get a laugh when cooler heads prevail.

I am having a great time in Southern Cali! And it's not because of the weather.

SubCmdr Out

[John G Smith]

And all this after my OPSEC warning. LOL! You met a Nando1 that you had a bad feeling about previously; at night; in a desolate parking lot; in a neighborhood local to your home. Wow!

My suggestion is to hold onto all threatening communication until after you may need it. By blocking her messages you no longer have any proof of criminal behavior. It is a worst case scenario, but important if it comes down to it. If it comes down to Divorce or Jail. I'll take divorce.

Definitely wasn't one of my finest hours. I think I had a bit of hubris and didn't think anything serious would happen. I've met quite a few local girls and never come close to having any issues. Lesson learned though.

However blocking her messages doesn't mean I no longer have proof. I didn't delete any of the previous messages. I still have all her threatening messages. I basically just stopped her from communicating with me further, so she would get frustrated and move on.

Personally I rather get divorced than get extorted. I'll never pay a penny under threat. So any girl who threatens me will never get anything. And if they push it too far I'll be glad to turn them over to the police. Of course, I still want to avoid drama if I can.

[Magic Rat]

How much time is enough?

SubCmdr Out

I had a POT inform me that she expected to be compensated for the M&G because time was $ to her. I told her she sounded like an escort and that wasn't what I was looking for.

How much time is enough? As you said Commander, whatever feels right in that particular situation. I've been doing a late lunch with drinks and typically the M&G goes hour and a half to two hours. If you are talking about time in the proverbial FC, the only times that has ever been mentioned is to say "I have to be home by x time", sometimes by the Baby, sometimes by me. I would never spend time with a Baby where I felt like I was paying by the hour. But that's just me.

Happy trails.

[SubCmdr]

I've been running into a lot of Pot SB's that are focused on how much time you want to spend with them. As in the number hours your meeting will last. I have a real problem with that. If you want to get paid by the hour go be an escort. Meetings have a natural flow to them. Some are short. Other are more leisurely. Please share your thoughts on this subject.

How much time is enough?

SubCmdr Out

[SubCmdr]

I definitely was pretty freaked out. She didn't have my real name or number or anything. BUT she did see my car. And since she was local if she was extremely determined, if she combed through every neighborhood within a 5 mile radius, she might have a chance on finding me. More than likely though, it was an empty threat. When she started talking crazy, I immediately blocked her number. She hasn't made any further attempts to contact / harass me either from email or SA.

And all this after my OPSEC warning. LOL! You met a Nando1 that you had a bad feeling about previously; at night; in a desolate parking lot; in a neighborhood local to your home. Wow!

My suggestion is to hold onto all threatening communication until after you may need it. By blocking her messages you no longer have any proof of criminal behavior. It is a worst case scenario, but important if it comes down to it. If it comes down to Divorce or Jail. I'll take divorce.

I'm doing a regular girlfriend and we are getting it on hot and heavy. I guess we are getting loud because the neighbor called and left a threatening voice mail. The next morning I see the neighbor and get in his face about his attitude. Basically tell him that if he rings her phone again I'll make it my life's mission to fuck him up on a regular basis. (Yeah, the pussy was that good. Or least I thought it was at the time LOL). He called the police on me. I went back to her house and waited for the police to respond. They did. The officer interviews the neighbor and he comes over to her house to interview us. During the course of the interview I ask the officer to listen to the neighbors threatening message. Result, my actions are no longer being looked at as criminal assault but self defense. And the case becomes a civil matter with the Officer explaining that we can pursue a case against him in civil court. And the Officer returned to the neighbor to give him the bad news. Without the tape I might have been in bad shape.

I don't care where the SB is on the Nando scale. Think Star Trek. No self respecting starship captain would ever make contact with an unknown alien species without going to red alert!

SubCmdr out

[John G Smith]

I'll split my weekend story into two parts, so I don't have a ton of time.

Sometimes life is stranger than fiction. After just making a post on these forums about never encountering a psycho, literally within 24 hours I had my first encounter. As mentioned before I had planned to meet my 6/6 SB this weekend, Sunday to be exact. But the night before I got contacted by a local prospect to get together at the middle of the night. I met with her previously a week or so ago. She looked pretty good (at least a 7) and appeared to be very kinky. When we first met up, she showed me all kinds nudes and porn on her phone, and claimed to be bisexual. On one hand, it seemed like a great deal. She was freaky, local, and the money she wanted was doable. However my spidy sense told me to avoid this girl. The car she was driving was very "gangster" looking. She also mentioned how she could get hotels locally for very cheap or almost free. In some ways she acted like a Non-Pro, but in other ways she seemed familiar with the "Pro" lifestyle (ie. She had a lot of pictures with friends from hotel rooms and etc). So after the first meet, I declined to push things further.

However when she called on the weekend, I was just thinking with the little head (or no head actually). She didn't mention anything about money and it seemed like she was just bored and wanted to hang out. Also I figured there was a possibility I wouldn't be getting any action with the 6/6 SB the next day since it would be the first date, so I decided to roll the dice that night.

Well it came up snake eyes. When I met with her, she began turning into a full Psycho. She complained that I didn't give her any money from the first time we met. I didn't give her any money because she was over a hour late and we were basically just meeting to talk in the parking lot. She supposedly lived locally, so I didn't even think gas money was necessary. But on this second meet as were talking in a store parking lot in the middle of the night, she was just getting more and more agitated as we talked. She was trying to convince me to go to a hotel, but I simply wasn't comfortable being around her anymore. I eventually managed to leave, but within a few minutes of me leaving, she sent several angry barely coherent texts and began threatening to come knock at my door and tell my wife everything if I didn't give her $1000 through moneygram or something.

I definitely was pretty freaked out. She didn't have my real name or number or anything. BUT she did see my car. And since she was local if she was extremely determined, if she combed through every neighborhood within a 5 mile radius, she might have a chance on finding me. More than likely though, it was an empty threat. When she started talking crazy, I immediately blocked her number. She hasn't made any further attempts to contact / harass me either from email or SA.

I can't imagine what would have happened if I actually got involved with her regularly and then she flew off the handle if I didn't plan to see her for some reason. She might have been able to do some real damage.

But I definitely learned a lesson from that, which Zomby mentioned actually. I'm never going to play that close to home again. I'm going to make sure I always meet someone who is a minimum of 3 cities over and who thinks I live 3 cities away in the other direction.

Also this girl was a 100% Nando1. She was in her mid / late 20s and wasn't working at all nor going to school. Like I said, I also think she hung out with a rough crowd.

I'm glad I had the experience though. Good wakeup call to how shit can get real if you're not careful or become complacent.

Within the next couple of days, I'll post part 2 of my weekend adventures. Thankfully part 2 was a MUCH better experience.

[Golfcart]

*** I've always thought I was a pretty good judge of people but for the second time in the last couple of months I am really glad that I did not succumb to the strong temptation to entertain someone I thought was safe, sane and known at my own home. ***

The convenience of having girls in our home. We never really know them. We know more about the cable guy. The gable guy isn't hiding his identity.

The typical risks of pay for play are on steroids the minute we bring those risks home. We give her knowledge we cannot take back. Our address allows her to learn our identity. She has the power to find us any time, even years later. A problem during the encounter someplace else allows us to walk away. At home we are limited to fighting or giving in. Girls who sell their bodies have pressures we cannot imagine. We never know what is behind that smile.

Pay for play never works for a girl the way she envisioned. Many have burned bridges making it harder to return to her life of before. She feels cornered and feels trapped. Women are emotional and reactive creatures by nature prone to fly off the handle anyway. Everything is our fault it happened and our fault we didn't fix it. We carry the rap-sheet of every man that came before us. With a woman everything goes south sooner or later. We never know when that point will be reached. We don't want that point to be reached when she is in our home.

Then there is the riskiest encounter of all. She has decided this time will be our last time. Something about that encounter will turn out differently and we are unaware. We don't want that to happen at home.

Talk to a friend on the police department about home invasions. Many burglaries are inside jobs by people who have been there by invitation. Some set fire out of anger, some to hide evidence of the burglary. That leaves evidence of arson. Arson is obvious to a trained investigator. The suspects are the homeowner and all who have been there by invitation. The homeowner is required to make statements under oath about this. Not saying she would be involved or someone she bragged to about what she saw was involved. Nonetheless we are in a box whether we tell the authorities and insurance investigators about the women we were having over to pay to have sex with us, or leave them out. Good luck with that call either way.

There simply is no upside to pay for play at home other than temporary convenience.

Third, at the core this is boundary crossing. Boundary crossing however it happens leads to problems.

My opinion only.

[Zomby]

I mentioned earlier about how I base the allowance I give on the type of SB experience I think I'll get. But making that post also reminded me that I haven't really come close to the ideal SB experience I've been looking for.

Well, even though I've only ever had one SB, I'll chime in here as well. I don't share all of your ideals, and I don't weight them all evenly, as you appear to do. I don't suppose it would come as any great surprise that the my SB scores highly on my list, given the length of our relationship.

- A very attractive petite college-aged girl. A girl who looks normal and doesn't have a ton of tattoos.

I think "attractive" is going to have to be taken as almost a given in this type of relationship, though exactly what constitutes "attractive" is obviously going to be different for different people. Tattoos, and also piercings, aren't the detractors for me that they are for some. I like well done ink, and the type of girl who gets a body piercing is generally kinda kinky in a way that I like. As for age, I don't know how I compare to others doing this type of thing, but it won't be long before I can *legally* have sex with someone who is one third my age; I consider anything under 30, with all else being equal, to be "young enough", and over 30 wouldn't be out of the question either, for the right person. I *am* a bit on the shallow side though, so "younger" is pretty much automatically higher on the list.

- Has modest financial needs. Someone who is pretty independent and just needs help with a few major bills to make life easier.

Definitely. I'm not interested in supporting her, and a person who is *not* independent wouldn't be attractive to me. If I wanted a dog, I'd get a dog. I have no problem in supplying her with the means to keep her from working herself to death, but I don't want to be the sole means of support.

- Has an apartment or place we can meet, so I don't have to keep booking and spending money on FCs.

Not as important to me. I've repeatedly told my girl that if she wanted to meet at her house, that I'd give her what I spend on the room instead. Even when we could, when no one is home, she prefers to go out. I think she just wants to get out of the house. LOL I consider the room a cost of doing business. That might be an attitude left over from dealing with strippers for so long, since virtually no one wants to go to a stripper's place to have sex, but it long ago ceased to be an overriding concern.

- A friendly girl who is easy to talk to and eager to chat / txt semi-regularly between meets.

Absolutely. This one is arguably more important than the rest, by a factor of at least two. I'm not interested in love, but if our only connection were that six or so inches of sliding flesh, it wouldn't have lasted as long as it has. I like cuddling and pillow talk, and non-rushed encounters. Some level of interaction out of the bedroom is desirable, too, though I certainly don't need daily contact.

- Doesn't live too far away. Has enough flexibility / openings in her schedule to meet regularly.

On the other hand, there's something to be said for someone who lives far enough away that there is little possibility of meeting friends or family when visiting her, though the second part is pretty much essential. It would be pointless to have a SB that one couldn't meet.

- Finds me at least somewhat handsome / attractive.

Uh, yeah, I'm not going to be attracted to, or be able to have fun with, someone is is repelled by me.

That leads me to one characteristic that you left off, but which I suspect you consider so fundamental that it didn't merit mentioning. The sex has to be good for *both* of us. I don't want a dead fish who just shows up for the money. I completely understand that the money is a large, and for most SBs I've seen described here, it's likely the *largest, factor, but if I can't make the sex at least "good" for her, I'm not going to be interested in seeing her. To that point, I don't want fakery, and I'm not interested in porn star sex. I want *real* enjoyment, and if I can't manage that *every* time, that's fine ("but next time you ain't feeling it, tell me so and we'll reschedule"). If I can't manage it *most* of the time, it's not fine at all. I want her to enjoy it so she'll be enthusiastic about coming back.

Then out of nowhere, I got contacted by a 6/6!

Look forward to hearing how it worked out for you. And I hope it works out well.

/z

[EasyGoingJ]

This is a timely discussion, as reported below I had a girl who came off as totally normal and good potential do a cash and dash with the $ that she could easily get her hands on this week. It happened faster than my brain could engage to believe it. Everything from the several days of intimate texting to the face to face seemed to have been going so well. After a few days of back and forth texting she had no explanation and certainly no plans to make it right so I went ahead and posted a warning here for any other Virginia Sd's.

I've always thought I was a pretty good judge of people but for the second time in the last couple of months I am really glad that I did not succumb to the strong temptation to entertain someone I thought was safe, sane and known at my own home.

I'll be thoroughly reviewing my opsec with a fresh perspective. I have a separate account for my phone, bills to my alternate email, drop by and pay in cash, but from my checking sb's #'s it looks like there are lots of websites offering reverse lookups on any cell phone, which would have all the info I thought I was so carefully hiding. Is there a way to block this info or is that what makes a total burner phone necessary? Sorry if this has been talked about before, I'm a regular reader but haven't seen it discussed. My apologies in advance if it has.

So last night psycho Susie emails me about getting together today as if nothing had ever happened, but asks that I please email her vs texting since her phone had been turned off bc she hadn't paid it. Raise your hand if you saw that coming. Anyway there is no way I'm doing anything but running in the opposite direction and raising my level of security.

Thanks to all of you who post regularly, I usually don't have much to add but I've been on SA for a while and am glad to share info on SB's in Charlottesville, Va. And Southwest Florida. Although this is a Richmond thread I get the feeling that most of my brothers here are not in Virginia so I may be of help to only a few of you, but glad that you are all here.