"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[John G Smith]

Sorry, but if you want my full name and information then I want yours. While yes, an SD has a lot to loose, my safety is of the utmost importance and I will NOT jeopardize it. To prove someone is stalking you is not an easy thing. And that says a fake SD with very bad intentions is going to be placated at just stalking a girl and that she'll actually have a chance to contact the police instead of being raped, or worse.

While yes, there needs to be trust between an SD and SB I think it's perfectly fine for it to be gained simultaneously. As you build trust between each other, you can reveal more. Sorry, but I think requiring information you're not willing to divulge yourself just makes you a bit of a hypocrite. The fact is that we both are at extreme risk and neither is greater than the other.

Mandy

You raise some fair points.

Both parties have to worry about those 2-5% who are psychos. I guess my point is that beyond the respective "psycho" demographics, a SD is more at risk even with a "normal" SB. In a moment of anger or desperation even a "normal" SB could cause major havoc to a SD by calling or showing up at his place or business. One phone call to a SD's house and a SB could destroy them. Whereas I couldn't cause that amount of personal destruction to my SB even if I knew all her personal information. Could I cause her some embarrassment? Sure, but nothing on the level of a divorce, losing half the assets, losing custody of kids, and being shunned by family and friends.

So I agree during the initial vetting phase, a SB has to be very careful for safety reasons and make sure the pot isn't a psycho. But once it's clear both parties aren't in the psycho demographic, the risk swings heavily back onto the SD, IMO. It's why it's imperative for the SD to always try to end the arrangement on good terms. Even a "normal" SB who leaves the arrangement angry or desperate is a major liability. So by knowing some of her personal information, it might allow us to head off a bad situation before it gets worse.

[John G Smith]

With ATF, I was totally pussy whipped, so I occasionally advanced funds. She was good about repaying in kind until recently. I have been assured of repayment on her most recent advance, though it remains to be seen whether she will come through.

Having learned my lesson the hard way, I am reluctant to do it again for her or anyone else. My mantra is don't loan it unless you can afford to lose it. Consider it a gift (but don't tell her that!) from the outset. Repayment is then a pleasant surprise.

More recently, I have grown a pair and told other girls,"Sorry. Can't help out that way, but I'm happy to meet for some private fun time if you want." That separates the players from the mere pretenders.

I actually just recently gave a pot SB some funds to move back to my area from her parents. We've been corresponding for a couple of months and got along pretty well, but we never met. Then she recently went to move back with her parents and found herself in an abusive situation. She txt'ed me and she explained the situation somewhat. She didn't come out and directly ask for financial help, but clearly I could tell that was the goal of her contacting me. However, after hearing the situation I still offered to help her move out.

Some people might say I'm a sucker. A couple of things though: Since I had access to her Facebook page, I was able to verify certain elements of her story. For example, she clearly was getting depressed based off what she was posting and her friend's were also wondering what was going on. Also, since I had access to her FB page, I'd know if she really moved back or not.

But the main thing like Joe said, I basically considered the financial help a "gift". She promised to meet up with me when she got back in town, but my main concern was just her moving out. As long as she moved out, it was money well spent. And even if she didn't move out, I could afford to lose that money. If she ends up "repaying" me at some point that's great, but that wasn't the motivation for me this situation.

Clearly I'm not going to make it a habit to give money to women I've never met. But let's be honest, we've wasted a lot of money on this lifestyle. Hotels and gas on no-shows. Multiple M&Gs that end up never going anywhere and etc. Money completely down the toilet. So on the rare occasion depending on the situation, I may be willing to gamble a loss if it means truly helping out another human being. But obviously I have to be able to verify certain details and it's just a one-off help. If they keep hitting me up without any "repayment" toward their debt, then I'll cut-off communication.

As for unscheduled sugar request with my actual SB, yeah I'd be very careful with those. It's very easy to end up setting a routine by making it acceptable for the SB to make unscheduled sugar requests even for non-emergencies. But if it truly is an emergency and you make it clear this is the exception and not the rule, then it's really up to you.

A part of me feels a true SD should be able to help out his SB in emergencies without immediate sugar. But it's also true, some SBs can easily start harassing and taking advantage of their SD if they feel they can regularly get something for nothing.

[Member #5055]

From the title, you might think I was talking about if SBs are escorts, but I am not. This is the reverse in fact.

Kimikoamore. Escortfiles com is a new Asian girl who just advertised on the Av. She is moving to C'ville, and is looking for clients in C'ville and Richmond. Claims to have a profession. Her in-call $ is more than her out-call $ (due to the additional cost of a high class hotel). Her rates are VERY high.

I almost look at her as more of an SB, and wonder if she should be told she is should revise her marketing plan.

Take a look at her site and see if you agree. Anybody seen her fishing on any of the SB sites already?

GW

[SbabyBlog]

So at the beginning, I think it's fair for us SDs to have more info on the SB.

Sorry, but if you want my full name and information then I want yours. While yes, an SD has a lot to loose, my safety is of the utmost importance and I will NOT jeopardize it. To prove someone is stalking you is not an easy thing. And that says a fake SD with very bad intentions is going to be placated at just stalking a girl and that she'll actually have a chance to contact the police instead of being raped, or worse...

While yes, there needs to be trust between an SD and SB I think it's perfectly fine for it to be gained simultaneously. As you build trust between each other, you can reveal more. Sorry, but I think requiring information you're not willing to divulge yourself just makes you a bit of a hypocrite. The fact is that we both are at extreme risk and neither is greater than the other.

BTW, This is a sensitive issue because a while back I learned that I had significant conversations with a Pot SD who turned out to be one of those fake guys with very bad intentions. For me, after a while something in my gut just wasn't right (part of that was because I couldn't verify anything he told me). He later popped up on a watch list with some significantly bad stories. I was lucky, others weren't.

And Dr, I don't think a girls inability to be smart and lock down her profile on FB means she can't be discrete. I'd question her intelligence level, but not her discretion.

Mandy

[JoesParty]

My West Coast ATF has requested more sugar. She is a hard working Nando1 in a financial bind. It's the first time she has done this to me. And it pisses me off! The request was for half of the amount she gets each session. I said no. That is one of my pet peeves. I don't ask her to put out for nothing. In addition, I'm back home. I prefer our mutual exchanges to occur in person and in cash. But I would like to know how you all handle the unscheduled sugar request?

SubCmdr out

With ATF, I was totally pussy whipped, so I occasionally advanced funds. She was good about repaying in kind until recently. I have been assured of repayment on her most recent advance, though it remains to be seen whether she will come through.

Having learned my lesson the hard way, I am reluctant to do it again for her or anyone else. My mantra is don't loan it unless you can afford to lose it. Consider it a gift (but don't tell her that!) from the outset. Repayment is then a pleasant surprise.

More recently, I have grown a pair and told other girls,"Sorry. Can't help out that way, but I'm happy to meet for some private fun time if you want." That separates the players from the mere pretenders.

[SubCmdr]

My West Coast ATF has requested more sugar. She is a hard working Nando1 in a financial bind. It's the first time she has done this to me. And it pisses me off! The request was for half of the amount she gets each session. I said no. That is one of my pet peeves. I don't ask her to put out for nothing. In addition, I'm back home. I prefer our mutual exchanges to occur in person and in cash. But I would like to know how you all handle the unscheduled sugar request?

SubCmdr out

[John G Smith]

For sugar babies under the age of 22 or so, I usually request to see their Facebook profile if I don't know it already. Most are willing to share it without issue since for most kids in their generation it's like exchanging a phone number.

I usually explain to them for someone in my position / situation, I just want to make sure they're not a psycho or anything. Indeed this is true and it helps me determine if I'm dealing with a "normal" person and I can keep tabs on their behavior.

It may sound hypocritical to request their full name and info without divulging ours. But the truth is, on the average us SDs have much more to lose from exposure than SBs. SDs don't have much to gain by blackmailing a SB without really exposing themselves in the process. SBs do have to worry about stalkers, but stalking is criminal behavior so if it gets serious a SB can always call the police and just say,"some guy I chatted with on the Internet started stalking me" and keep the SD / SB aspects hidden. Whereas for a SD if a SB starts to be "loose" with discretion, it's not really illegal yet it can be extremely problematic / catastrophic for the SD. And even if a SB does criminal behavior like blackmail, it's not always easy for a SD to go to the police without exposing his SD / SB activities.

Obviously trust is needed on both sides, but SDs do have more to lose on the average. So I try to have at least a little info on the SBs real identity. Besides, usually if you see a SB enough anyway she's going to find out some of your real info as well (stray credit card, hotel / dinner bill, car registration / insurance, and etc). Sometimes it can be as simple as cashier saying,"Thank you Mr. Smith for your purchase today".

So at the beginning, I think it's fair for us SDs to have more info on the SB. But be aware over time she will very likely find out your real identity. But by then hopefully you've established some trust or at least mutually assured destruction to keep things in check.

[JoesParty]

My brother,

I think you have a classic Nando 1 on your hands with baby #1, despite the fact that you say she is from upper middle class stock. Ask yourself, how many people that you associate with on a regular basis have done time For dui? That is some serious shit, and I for one would be paranoid about the devious and clever abilities of such a baby to suss out my true identity. Run, don't walk, my friend, and just keep the memory of her tits exactly where it is now. All is see is trouble, in all caps!

I guess this is another situation where the sarcasm font would have been handy. Well, it wasn't sarcasm per se, but the hope of seeing her again, or more specifically, her tits, was tongue in cheek. I've learned my lesson about Nando1s after my unemployed SB. And who ever heard of a Nando1 with money (or at least family money)!

Speaking of Nando, anyone heard from him lately?

[JoesParty]

Those were my thoughts exactly, Cincy! The way they're pushing it is creative, however. Warning you when you send an email that the person you're emailing isn't verified, and may not be who she says. I'm assuming the Babies get a similar warning.

On a related note, I just had the most interesting exchange with a pot SB. She's a stunning. 19 year old green-eyed redhead with a body to die for, if her pictures are accurate. I'd emailed her once through SA, over a month ago, and never heard back from her. She finally replies to say she's been out of the country with horrible internet access, but wants to know if I'm still interested. I reply that I am, and add some of the witty banter that women find so charming (as has been noted here before, I am slightly long-winded).

This, in part, is what I get in reply:

"Here is my phone number, xxx-xxx-xxxx.

If you'd like to, feel free to text me with your full name and maybe a picture so I can put a face to you.

(And you know, I have to do my fair share of google stalking to make sure you're not a. Well. Stalker. Haha! I'm sure you're not, but you can never be too careful)."

I wrote back to tell her I didn't share my real name, but she could have a picture once we had committed to meeting in person. I then got curious, since she was so concerned about google-stalking, and searched her number on Facebook.

Up pops her entire profile, with several of the photos she had used on SA, and her real name. Not only that, but she had no privacy settings on her account at all as far as I could tell. That is how I got her real email address. And found photos of her entire family. A google search gave me enough information to practically write her biography back to 5th grade (as well as her profile on a couple modeling websites; yes, she apparently is that hot).

I emailed her real address, using her real name, to tell her what I had found. I advised her to get a burner phone for "sugar" purposes, and suggested she strengthen her privacy settings on FB. I assumed this would freak her out and she'd never contact me again, which was fine with me because she obviously doesn't know the meaning of "discrete." Instead I got a reply email saying "thanks for letting me know all that. I didn't know you could find out so much about someone with just a phone number. Your honesty makes me feel as if I can trust you. I hope we get to meet soon."

I'm inclined to let this one go, as I have serious questions about her judgement and ability to be discrete. What about it, brother (and sister) sugar bowlers? Is she coocoo for Cocoa Puffs? What would you do?

I don't agree that her making her life an open book for all to find online means she can't be discreet. My first SB, still my ATF, was the same way. And she managed to be plenty discreet about our relationship. She just never gave a damn that everyone knew the other details of her life. To her everlasting credit, though, nobody ever saw anything about me on her FB, and trust me, I was watching like a hawk.

What does concern me about your pot is her asking outright for your personal info. Playing in the sugar bowl requires a certain amount of trust on both sides, something she apparently lacks.

I say: If you proceed, proceed cautiously.

[F Scott]

I met candidate #1 at a sushi place not far from her upper class suburban home. She is a total party girl, already having done time (10 days) and on probation for alcohol-related infractions. Hence, the lack of a driver's license. 90% of her stories about herself-and she does love to talk about herself-revolve around drinking, casual drug use, partying, or some combination of the three. She attends a private East-coast university and is just looking for someone to support her so she can quit her summertime fast food job. Mommy and Daddy are both lawyers but divorced, and daddy has essentially thrown her out of his house because of her criminal infractions.

The evening went ok, but in all honesty, all I really did was listen to blah-blah-probation-blah-blah-cocaine-blah-blah-drinking etc. While trying not to be too obvious about staring at her tits. She was appreciative that I sprang for dinner and gave her a ride home (saving her cab fare) , though I haven't heard more from her, despite the obligatory post-date "I had a good time, let's do this again" text exchange.

Candidate #2 is a bit of a wildcard. Tall, awesome body, with pink hair, two lower lip piercings, and "really into anime," whatever the Hell that means. But she is shy. I mean almost painfully shy. She barely looked me in the eye when I first met her. I finally got her to open up a bit when I suggested sushi for lunch, because apparently a love of all things Japanese goes hand in hand with the anime fetish. She has a quiet, almost "little girl" type of voice, and it took quite a bit of coaxing to even get a smile. But then we were off to the races. I think she had a good time, and I wished we could have talked longer, but I had to get to the office.

Here's the thing: She said she has another SD. Turns out all her other SD does is take her to a hotel, so she was surprised that I wanted to even go out. I said I was happy to do so, while at the same time I was silently thanking my lucky stars that she's ok with hotel dates, because that means she knows why we're both in this game. At least I hope it means she knows. We'll see, I guess. Part of me wonders if it's all just an act.

I guess you could say I'm cautiously intrigued by the anime chick with the pink hair. Opposites attract, I suppose.

Regards,

Joe

My brother,

I think you have a classic Nando 1 on your hands with baby #1, despite the fact that you say she is from upper middle class stock. Ask yourself, how many people that you associate with on a regular basis have done time for dui? That is some serious shit, and I for one would be paranoid about the devious and clever abilities of such a baby to suss out my true identity. Run, don't walk, my friend, and just keep the memory of her tits exactly where it is now. All is see is trouble, in all caps!

As for baby #2, my advice would be full speed ahead. I personally love the shy artistic types, because I feel they are completely the authentic deal. Be careful about pushing too hard on this one, but definitely do not second guess her shyness for anything more than that, shyness. You could potentially have a great thing on your hands, and the fact that she might already be comfortable with the Bowl can only work in your favor. I have been busy on my end stretching out my Sugar Muscles and reaquainting myself with the ups and downs of the pursuit, and one of the many things I am re-learning is that there are a ton of douche bags out there, and if we can be respectful, polite, gentle, somewhat humorous and not try to push on a string, unlimited rewards can be ours.

On another note, I am forcing myself to abide by my 48 hour gag rule, but believe me, my friends, I have tales to tell! If I may offer another acronym, there are no POTF (panites on the floor) just yet, but I am more than optimistic that my score will rise in the next few weeks.

As always, keep in touch,

Scott

[FeelGoodMd]

Yes SA has found another 'el-dorado' another $50 / person charge.

Those were my thoughts exactly, Cincy! The way they're pushing it is creative, however. Warning you when you send an email that the person you're emailing isn't verified, and may not be who she says. I'm assuming the Babies get a similar warning.

On a related note, I just had the most interesting exchange with a pot SB. She's a stunning. 19 year old green-eyed redhead with a body to die for, if her pictures are accurate. I'd emailed her once through SA, over a month ago, and never heard back from her. She finally replies to say she's been out of the country with horrible internet access, but wants to know if I'm still interested. I reply that I am, and add some of the witty banter that women find so charming (as has been noted here before, I am slightly long-winded).

This, in part, is what I get in reply:

"Here is my phone number, xxx-xxx-xxxx.

If you'd like to, feel free to text me with your full name and maybe a picture so I can put a face to you.

(And you know, I have to do my fair share of google stalking to make sure you're not a. Well. Stalker. Haha! I'm sure you're not, but you can never be too careful)."

I wrote back to tell her I didn't share my real name, but she could have a picture once we had committed to meeting in person. I then got curious, since she was so concerned about google-stalking, and searched her number on Facebook.

Up pops her entire profile, with several of the photos she had used on SA, and her real name. Not only that, but she had no privacy settings on her account at all as far as I could tell. That is how I got her real email address. And found photos of her entire family. A google search gave me enough information to practically write her biography back to 5th grade (as well as her profile on a couple modeling websites; yes, she apparently is that hot).

I emailed her real address, using her real name, to tell her what I had found. I advised her to get a burner phone for "sugar" purposes, and suggested she strengthen her privacy settings on FB. I assumed this would freak her out and she'd never contact me again, which was fine with me because she obviously doesn't know the meaning of "discrete." Instead I got a reply email saying "thanks for letting me know all that. I didn't know you could find out so much about someone with just a phone number. Your honesty makes me feel as if I can trust you. I hope we get to meet soon."

I'm inclined to let this one go, as I have serious questions about her judgement and ability to be discrete. What about it, brother (and sister) sugar bowlers? Is she coocoo for Cocoa Puffs? What would you do?

[JoesParty]

But only recreationally so, I promise.

I know that I announced my self-imposed timeout just a few weeks ago, but my e-mail inbox was filling up with SA message notifications from a long-dormant account. Of course, it was necessary to pay the membership fee to read them, and SA was running a monthly membership rate special. How fortuitous! [It is occasions like these where I really wish someone would invent a sarcasm font.]

Because a couple of the messages piqued my interest, I sucked it up and decided to dip my toe into the waters. With my timeout in mind, I decided to respond to just two. Both are 18, which I normally throw back, as I gravitate to the more mature fish. Both also live at home, and as I later discovered, neither drives. OK, I can handle a couple of complications, as long as we are willing to be discrete. Both agreed.

I met candidate #1 at a sushi place not far from her upper class suburban home. She is a total party girl, already having done time (10 days) and on probation for alcohol-related infractions. Hence, the lack of a driver's license. 90% of her stories about herself--and she does love to talk about herself--revolve around drinking, casual drug use, partying, or some combination of the three. She attends a private East-coast university and is just looking for someone to support her so she can quit her summertime fast food job. Mommy and Daddy are both lawyers but divorced, and daddy has essentially thrown her out of his house because of her criminal infractions.

The evening went ok, but in all honesty, all I really did was listen to blah-blah-probation-blah-blah-cocaine-blah-blah-drinking etc. while trying not to be too obvious about staring at her tits. She was appreciative that I sprang for dinner and gave her a ride home (saving her cab fare), though I haven't heard more from her, despite the obligatory post-date "I had a good time, let's do this again" text exchange. It may be due in part to the fact that I don't give sugar on a first date, and maybe she's found someone who does. I doubt I'll make too much of an effort to see her again, but if she wants to meet, I'm game. I'd love to look at those tits again, especially if it's while I'm pounding her into a mattress.

Candidate #2 is a bit of a wildcard. Tall, awesome body, with pink hair, two lower lip piercings, and "really into anime," whatever the Hell that means. But she is shy. I mean almost painfully shy. She barely looked me in the eye when I first met her. I finally got her to open up a bit when I suggested sushi for lunch, because apparently a love of all things Japanese goes hand in hand with the anime fetish. She has a quiet, almost "little girl" type of voice, and it took quite a bit of coaxing to even get a smile. But then we were off to the races. I think she had a good time, and I wished we could have talked longer, but I had to get to the office.

Here's the thing: She said she has another SD. I don't mind, and frankly, if there's some other dude who can keep her occupied when I can't (so that I don't get messages asking for "help" all the time), more power to her. But I wonder if she's like this with everyone . . .

So I decide to see her again today for a movie. It's funny; we've had some interesting conversations via text this week, but she barely looked me in the eye again. We had fun at the movie, and this time I gave her a little box of chocolates with $50 tucked inside because she mentioned last time that she needed new toner for her printer at home. She was very appreciative and said she wanted to get together again soon. I suggested private time, which she was ok with. Turns out all her other SD does is take her to a hotel, so she was surprised that I wanted to even go out. I said I was happy to do so, while at the same time I was silently thanking my lucky stars that she's ok with hotel dates, because that means she knows why we're both in this game. At least I hope it means she knows. We'll see, I guess. Part of me wonders if it's all just an act.

I guess you could say I'm cautiously intrigued by the anime chick with the pink hair. Opposites attract, I suppose. Other than that, it's been pretty quiet around here. I hope everyone else is enjoying the summer.

Regards,

Joe

[EuroInCincy]

So I just renewed my SA membership after taking about a month off.

So yes, so I thought it was time few a new SB harvest. I noticed that SA now has a new background check that they're heavily promoting. Have you guys done this? Anyway this round of SA has already been more promising than the last.

Yes SA has found another 'el-dorado' another $50 / person charge.

Only one mentioned it, my reply that she had not done it stopped her objections.

[John G Smith]

So I just renewed my SA membership after taking about a month off.

I hadn't met my Yogo SB in over 3 weeks due to schedule conflicts and it doesn't seem like our scheduling problems will be sorted out soon. And SB5 is becoming just too one-dimensional for my tastes. We had one really good conversation a few weeks ago, but now it's back to just weekly car hookups with very little conversation. There's only so much you can do in a small car (or maybe we just lack creativity) and we're not really developing any kind of connection, so I think I'm going to cut her loose. To her credit, she consistently txts me for the weekly meetup. However she doesn't seem to be 100% into it when we're fooling around. I like the SB to at least fake interest (that's part of the job of being a SB).

So yes, so I thought it was time few a new SB harvest. I noticed that SA now has a new background check that they're heavily promoting. Have you guys done this? Anyway this round of SA has already been more promising than the last. I actually got a couple of good Asian SB prospects this time around. I have a thing for Asian girls but they can be pretty elusive. Either they have unreasonable expectations or they get snatched up by high-rollers. But the two Asian SBs already want to meet, so we'll see how it goes.

I also posted a CL ad and got a couple of interesting prospects. What I like about CL is that it's a lot easier to cross-check them with Facebook. SA girls on the other hand tend to know how to keep the FB email addresses and such separate. From my experience at least.

If things manage to go well with one of the Asian SBs, then I'll probably just wipe the slate clean of other SBs, since a nice Asian SB is what I want right now and I'm willing to focus all my resources on her.

But so far it's been a nice late summer harvest. Now is a good time to get them before school starts up in about a month.

[John G Smith]

My thoughts echo SubCmdr and Joe's.

It just depends on your relative risk tolerance. Though I never try to push my risk tolerance on an SB. Either she's comfortable with it or not. I may make a request, but I don't force the issue.

Personally I have my own little "secret sauce" of determining factors I use to dictate what form of protection to use (or not use). It's nothing really scientific but it's adequate for determining the acceptable risk I'm willing to take.

After all, nothing is risk free. STD tests have a 3-6 month lag time for common STDs like herpes. So a STD test is like a historical document that tells you what someone's health status was 6 months ago. Who knows what they've done since then and what they'll do next week. Also as Joe pointed out, it's not that hard to fake a STD test if someone is determined. Most people use fake names anyway in SD / SB relationships, so it's hard to know 100% if you're seeing the legit test unless both accompany each other to the clinic and give up very specific personal information.

So Mandy, your friend should obviously do what makes her feel safe. But at the same time, you should probably warn her not to get a false sense of security from getting pot SDs tested. Even assuming the test is legit, the pot SD may have been with 5-6 SBs (or 12-18+ SBs judging by some of the SDs on this board, LOL) in the last 6 months, which the test won't fully cover. Condoms also don't fully protect from skin contact STDs, which are the most common.

The fact is, sex with another human being is risky. There's no getting around it completely. It's why something like 30% of the population are carrying some kind of STD and don't even know it. But driving a car is also risky, especially on a rainy day, yet we keep on driving.

I think that if you're going to enter this lifestyle (SD or SB) , there's just some risks you're going to have to accept as the cost of doing business. If those risks are unacceptable to you, then you should stick to a monogamous "take it slow" relationship. Not open relationships and arrangements where people are having sex after the first or second date. Even a "monogamous" SD is having (infrequent) sex with his wife who could be having sex with the pool boy who is also having sex with a slutty college girl who had a three-way with 2 frat boys on a dare. You just don't know.

Having said that, the most severe STDs are treatable. Even HIV is no longer considered a death sentence and we're probably not too far away from an official cure. I think the most important thing isn't necessarily getting your SD or SB tested, but to get yourself Tested. As long as you stay on top of it and manage your own health, you may have to take a few "timeouts" occasionally but you'll be fine in the long run. I think that's probably the best way to mediate against the inherent risks.