News and Media Reports

[BerryMcCockinr]

No you responded to my post - check the posts.....Hey not looking to debate anyone, just think we need to read the stuff carefully.

That first line of you picture needs some context - as does everything with the law.

yes, engaging in commercial sex with a trafficked person is a crime in the United States

What this says to this chair is that because "commercial sex" is a crime in the USA then it is also a crime with a trafficked person. It also means it is a crime with a non-trafficked person. IT does NOT imply that commercial sex with a trafficked person makes that person liable for the crime of trafficking. I would want to dig more into the EXACT details of the reference. Learned from a boss long time ago that one needs to go to the original source of something and be careful relying on someone else's interpretation. So ChatGPT summarized that in a way that is to this chair is miss leading. Prostitution is illegal in all of the USA, but a few counties in NV. So it would make sense to define further what has been summarized.

And this position, that one is not guilty of "trafficking" is supported by that second paragraph. A person has to knowingly engage in commercial sex with a trafficked person.

But who on this site going to a parlor is looking for sex?? Aren't most going for a legitimate service. Massage / body rub?

In Delaware solicitation is illegal but is a misdemeanor crime.

LOL you really like to argue about nothing. I orginally responded to darkmatter, post 30, and then you responded to me. Point being, I said *apparently* you *can* be liable. Feel free to fact check the should have known standard and get back to us, Mr. KnowItAll.

[MansRuin]

Wow! That sounds pretty extreme and out there, but never surprised at what LE might do. Sorry for your bad experience!

Years ago we had a dude who got jammed up on drug felonies when girl came out of trap house and hopped in his car for a pre-Arranged date. She had just bought, abandoned drugs in HIS car and claimed she bought them for him.

But what you described, Sounds like the script from the old Hansen TV show, "To Catch A Predator. " Was that in DE or somewhere's else? What is the background to that situation. An online advert? Contact through social media? Some kind of LE sting operation? AMP?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I'll put it this way they are a lot less forgiving if you're looking on social media. The stg ones not always and it depends on the state as long as you don't show up 80-90% you're ok. If you're talking of course chances increases even without meeting but most that does was very vulgar, sent or ask for pictures. Stg of course. If you're looking on social media for specific types of girls whole different ball game. They are more likely to charge even without meeting.

But d'S Can and will twist a simple charge into something much worse. Usually for leverage to deal.

If you play with fire you will get burned when it comes to specific girls.

[Shampoo55]

To add there is some states that also charge RICO.

I've been through this. But I have a very specific taste in girls. Show up wrong place you're list of charges will be attempted rape, solicitation, trafficking, traveling to meet a minor, if you had a video and camera and agreed to what was going to happen add add porn production, throw in two bottles of lube and plan b and bag with panty collection.

Yeah. All class A and B felonies. If you're lucky they drop it all but the solicitation.

Wow! That sounds pretty extreme and out there, but never surprised at what LE might do. Sorry for your bad experience!

Years ago we had a dude who got jammed up on drug felonies when girl came out of trap house and hopped in his car for a pre-Arranged date. She had just bought, abandoned drugs in HIS car and claimed she bought them for him.

But what you described, Sounds like the script from the old Hansen TV show, "To Catch A Predator. " Was that in DE or somewhere's else? What is the background to that situation. An online advert? Contact through social media? Some kind of LE sting operation? AMP?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[MansRuin]

No you responded to my post - check the posts.....Hey not looking to debate anyone, just think we need to read the stuff carefully.

That first line of you picture needs some context - as does everything with the law.

yes, engaging in commercial sex with a trafficked person is a crime in the United States

What this says to this chair is that because "commercial sex" is a crime in the USA then it is also a crime with a trafficked person. It also means it is a crime with a non-trafficked person. IT does NOT imply that commercial sex with a trafficked person makes that person liable for the crime of trafficking. I would want to dig more into the EXACT details of the reference. Learned from a boss long time ago that one needs to go to the original source of something and be careful relying on someone else's interpretation. So ChatGPT summarized that in a way that is to this chair is miss leading. Prostitution is illegal in all of the USA, but a few counties in NV. So it would make sense to define further what has been summarized.

And this position, that one is not guilty of "trafficking" is supported by that second paragraph. A person has to knowingly engage in commercial sex with a trafficked person..

To add there is some states that also charge RICO.

I've been through this. But I have a very specific taste in girls. Show up wrong place you're list of charges will be attempted rape, solicitation, trafficking, traveling to meet a minor, if you had a video and camera and agreed to what was going to happen add add porn production, throw in two bottles of lube and plan b and bag with panty collection.

Yeah. All class A and B felonies. If you're lucky they drop it all but the solicitation.

[Shampoo55]

I didn't mean mongers were arrested for trafficking, just that's why they busted the place. I responded to DarkMatter who was talking about conducting business with another consenting adult. Hence they bust these places b / c some are not consenting adults. However, apparently you can be liable for a crime, although yes generally you would have to know. See attached.

Never said that place had underage girls just speaking in general, as they found 11 minors throughout the country. But it has happened in the area, we all know about WHFT.

No you responded to my post - check the posts.....Hey not looking to debate anyone, just think we need to read the stuff carefully.

That first line of you picture needs some context - as does everything with the law.

yes, engaging in commercial sex with a trafficked person is a crime in the United States

What this says to this chair is that because "commercial sex" is a crime in the USA then it is also a crime with a trafficked person. It also means it is a crime with a non-trafficked person. IT does NOT imply that commercial sex with a trafficked person makes that person liable for the crime of trafficking. I would want to dig more into the EXACT details of the reference. Learned from a boss long time ago that one needs to go to the original source of something and be careful relying on someone else's interpretation. So ChatGPT summarized that in a way that is to this chair is miss leading. Prostitution is illegal in all of the USA, but a few counties in NV. So it would make sense to define further what has been summarized.

And this position, that one is not guilty of "trafficking" is supported by that second paragraph. A person has to knowingly engage in commercial sex with a trafficked person.

But who on this site going to a parlor is looking for sex?? Aren't most going for a legitimate service. Massage / body rub?

In Delaware solicitation is illegal but is a misdemeanor crime.

[BerryMcCockinr]

Sorry I'm not down for speculation as it has a negative effect on the community that is needless.

Please explain to me how one as a patron "can be liable for trafficking even if you weren't aware and should have known"?

From the US Department of Justice.

What is Human Trafficking?

Human trafficking, also known as trafficking in persons, is a crime that involves compelling or coercing a person to provide labor or services, or to engage in commercial sex acts. The coercion can be subtle or overt, physical or psychological. Exploitation of a minor for commercial sex is human trafficking, regardless of whether any form of force, fraud, or coercion was used.

So how does a monger going into an establishment to get a massage or body rub end up in the "compelling or coercing" side of things? Sure LE can charge anyone with anything, but a patron getting charged with trafficking seems like a real STRETCH of the laws and in fact a novel application that likely would not survive scrutiny.

Nowhere in the article does it say there were under-aged girls in Delaware. Most of the girls that end up in this area are well above 21, because if you look closely you'll see the wrinkles. Since Asians always look younger to western men, where a 35-yo looks to be 21, I can't imagine what an under-aged girl would look like and not be easily detected.

If there are other facts, please share.

I didn't mean mongers were arrested for trafficking, just that's why they busted the place. I responded to DarkMatter who was talking about conducting business with another consenting adult. Hence they bust these places b / c some are not consenting adults. However, apparently you can be liable for a crime, although yes generally you would have to know. See attached.

Never said that place had underage girls just speaking in general, as they found 11 minors throughout the country. But it has happened in the area, we all know about WHFT.

[Shampoo55]

Not sure what they got the mongers for but obvi they need proof. And apparently you can be liable for trafficking even if you weren't aware and should have known. Same if the girl lies about her age or you didn't know her age.

Sorry I'm not down for speculation as it has a negative effect on the community that is needless.

Please explain to me how one as a patron "can be liable for trafficking even if you weren't aware and should have known"?

From the US Department of Justice.

What is Human Trafficking?

Human trafficking, also known as trafficking in persons, is a crime that involves compelling or coercing a person to provide labor or services, or to engage in commercial sex acts. The coercion can be subtle or overt, physical or psychological. Exploitation of a minor for commercial sex is human trafficking, regardless of whether any form of force, fraud, or coercion was used.

So how does a monger going into an establishment to get a massage or body rub end up in the "compelling or coercing" side of things? Sure LE can charge anyone with anything, but a patron getting charged with trafficking seems like a real STRETCH of the laws and in fact a novel application that likely would not survive scrutiny.

Nowhere in the article does it say there were under-aged girls in Delaware. Most of the girls that end up in this area are well above 21, because if you look closely you'll see the wrinkles. Since Asians always look younger to western men, where a 35-yo looks to be 21, I can't imagine what an under-aged girl would look like and not be easily detected.

If there are other facts, please share.

[BerryMcCockinr]

Unless someone has access to the charges or other inside info, we just don't know what is the situation. Not sure it helps the community to guess as to what happened.

IF the dude admitted to paying for sex then he likely gave up his 5th Amendment rights and got jammed up. This is why it is important to understand how to behave during encounters with LE.

BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters

https://youtu.be/yqMjMPlXzdA?si=WDsDZ1c7tRFQmAp6

Most of the "girls" in AMPs are pretty mature women so under-aged is not very likely. And if the girl was trafficked, that has nothing to do with the dude getting a massage from her. Look up the definition of trafficking. It includes force, coercing or fraud to do commercial sex acts. Unless that dude has some control or leverage over her, there is no way he's guilty of Trafficking.

https://www.justice.gov/humantraffic...an-trafficking

The general problem is that everyone assumes that each and every girl in an AMP must be trafficked. {or that ANY girl engaged in sex work must be trafficked} I mean after all ask any woman and they will tell you NO ONE does sex work out of choice, they must be forced or coerced or something. And the general public doesn't distinguish sex work from 'trafficking' so the system looks like it is doing something when it shuts down sex work in the name of "trafficking."

Sorry, not being combative, just like to keep it real around here.

Just going by what the article said.

"Authorities also located a 45-year-old woman there who is believed to be a victim of human trafficking.

Throughout the country, Operation Coast to Coast resulted in the identification of 129 human trafficking victims, including 11 minors and one adult who was seven months pregnant".

Not sure what they got the mongers for but obvi they need proof. And apparently you can be liable for trafficking even if you weren't aware and should have known. Same if the girl lies about her age or you didn't know her age.

[DarkMatter5168]

That consenting adult may be a minor and / or human trafficked. Pretty sure that's why they arrested the mongers.

That's why I would like for the hobby to be legal. And also why I don't frequent the massage places, I don't know that I'm dealing consensually.

[Shampoo55]

That consenting adult may be a minor and / or human trafficked. Pretty sure that's why they arrested the mongers.

Unless someone has access to the charges or other inside info, we just don't know what is the situation. Not sure it helps the community to guess as to what happened.

IF the dude admitted to paying for sex then he likely gave up his 5th Amendment rights and got jammed up. This is why it is important to understand how to behave during encounters with LE.

BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters

https://youtu.be/yqMjMPlXzdA?si=WDsDZ1c7tRFQmAp6

Most of the "girls" in AMPs are pretty mature women so under-aged is not very likely. And if the girl was trafficked, that has nothing to do with the dude getting a massage from her. Look up the definition of trafficking. It includes force, coercing or fraud to do commercial sex acts. Unless that dude has some control or leverage over her, there is no way he's guilty of Trafficking.

https://www.justice.gov/humantraffic...an-trafficking

The general problem is that everyone assumes that each and every girl in an AMP must be trafficked. {or that ANY girl engaged in sex work must be trafficked} I mean after all ask any woman and they will tell you NO ONE does sex work out of choice, they must be forced or coerced or something. And the general public doesn't distinguish sex work from 'trafficking' so the system looks like it is doing something when it shuts down sex work in the name of "trafficking."

Sorry, not being combative, just like to keep it real around here.

[BerryMcCockinr]

I especially like the term "sex buyers". It's very. Factual.

If this game was legal it would be a lot safer for all involved. There will always be a black market I guess but I sure wish I wasn't looking over my shoulders for conducting business with another consenting adult.

That consenting adult may be a minor and / or human trafficked. Pretty sure that's why they arrested the mongers.

[DarkMatter5168]

This is the first article to make me pause going to AMP's. Arresting the mongers? Legally, if they kept their mouth shut nothing to worry about the one mongers name is in article at the end. That is a problem. 2304 Carpenter Station Road was becoming a goto for me. Again, may be time to pause.

I especially like the term "sex buyers". It's very. Factual.

If this game was legal it would be a lot safer for all involved. There will always be a black market I guess but I sure wish I wasn't looking over my shoulders for conducting business with another consenting adult.

[Shampoo55]

Owner of Newark-area massage parlor arrested in human trafficking crackdown

The owner of an unlicensed massage parlor near Newark was arrested last week as part of a nationwide initiative aimed at cracking down on human trafficking.

Police raided the Relaxing Asian / Moon Spa, located at 1919 Capitol Trail, on April 23, according to Master Cpl. XXX YYY, a spokesman for the New Castle County Police Department.

The owner, LLL SSS, 56, of Newark, was arrested. Authorities also located a 45-year-old woman there who is believed to be a victim of human trafficking.

Police searched a Newark house associated with the business and seized $25,000 in cash, $42,000 in gold bars and coins, $16,000 in silver bars and coins, jewelry, two vehicles, a handgun and 36 grams of marijuana.

SSS was charged with promoting prostitution, money laundering, operating an unlicensed massage establishment and criminal nuisance. She was jailed after failing to post $31,000 cash bail.

A 17-year-old boy found at the house was charged with possession of a firearm and ammunition by a person under 21. He was sent to a juvenile detention center after failing to post $10,000 cash bail.

The raid in Newark was part of Operation Coast to Coast, a coordinated nationwide enforcement effort involving more than 250 law enforcement agencies across 30 states.

"The operation, one of the largest anti-human trafficking initiatives ever conducted in the United States, was executed simultaneously with the goals of identifying victims, apprehending traffickers and sex buyers, and seizing criminal proceeds," Chambers said.

Throughout the country, Operation Coast to Coast resulted in the identification of 129 human trafficking victims, including 11 minors and one adult who was seven months pregnant. Investigators also detained 86 men, arrested 53 sex buyers and executed 108 search warrants, including 36 at illicit massage businesses. In addition, more than $500,000 in criminal assets were seized, including cash, gold, silver and vehicles.

In Delaware, the initiative included the New Castle County Police Department's Drug and Human Trafficking Investigations Team, the Delaware Division of Professional Regulation, Delaware Department of Justice, Delaware Anti-Trafficking Council, Homeland Security Investigations and the Elsmere Police Department.

The other raid in Delaware took place at TH Rainbow Spa, located at 2304 Carpenter Station Road in Wilmington. There, authorities located another human trafficking victim and arrested owner MMM CCCC, 44, of Wilmington, and an alleged customer, AAA BBBB, 36, of Aston, Pa.

https://www.newarkpostonline.com/new...a41758988.html

*********************************************8
So where was ICE? Did they nab the illegal immigrant?

[Nate0110]

I don't typically frequent the massage places but I thought I'd share this.

https://www.newarkpostonline.com/new...a41758988.html

This is the first article to make me pause going to AMP's. Arresting the mongers? Legally, if they kept their mouth shut nothing to worry about the one mongers name is in article at the end. That is a problem. 2304 Carpenter Station Road was becoming a goto for me. Again, may be time to pause.

[DarkMatter5168]

I don't typically frequent the massage places but I thought I'd share this.

https://www.newarkpostonline.com/new...a41758988.html