OPSEC. Operattional Security

[RogerOver]

Everything in your phone is stored data not only in your phone but in data centers. Believe whatever you think or read but it's all easily accessible to anyone that wants it enough and knows how, no warrants required.

Depending on how you've configured security and privacy options on your phone (particularly the iPhone), this simply isn't true. It might be true for you and others, but it's not accurate for me.

[VaPlay]

Sure they can extract data from "a locked phone", and I never said otherwise. There are hundreds of millions of phones out there, and some of them can have data extracted, when they are locked.

What is also true is that they can absolutely can *not* extract data from other locked phones, (at least from all the publicly available data and evidence). Sure a phone from 10+ years ago with Android 1.0 is probably not very secure. With the latest Pixel 10 Pro or the latest IPhone, there is no evidence or news reports that they are breaking the device encryption and unlocking those. In fact there is evidence to the contrary, as the other member posted earlier.

Again, it's about math, physics, and encryption, and until quantum computers are developed, no one can break advanced encryption and get into those phones.

Everything is not binary.

Everything in your phone is stored data not only in your phone but in data centers. Believe whatever you think or read but it's all easily accessible to anyone that wants it enough and knows how, no warrants required.

[Peter Johnson]

I know for a fact that this isn't the case after a family member's trial. They absolutely can extract data from a locked phone.

Sure they can extract data from "a locked phone", and I never said otherwise. There are hundreds of millions of phones out there, and some of them can have data extracted, when they are locked.

What is also true is that they can absolutely can *not* extract data from other locked phones, (at least from all the publicly available data and evidence). Sure a phone from 10+ years ago with Android 1.0 is probably not very secure. With the latest Pixel 10 Pro or the latest IPhone, there is no evidence or news reports that they are breaking the device encryption and unlocking those. In fact there is evidence to the contrary, as the other member posted earlier.

Again, it's about math, physics, and encryption, and until quantum computers are developed, no one can break advanced encryption and get into those phones.

Everything is not binary.

[Peter Johnson]

This is the Admin speaking. Some of you mother fuckers need to learn to be more civil. We have fight threads for stupidly like I just cleaned up.

A2

It doesn't matter if the messages are erased because fucking everything, and by everything I mean every mother fucking piece of electronic info in the world, is hoovered up and stored in this data center..

I must politely disagree, and the overwhelming majority of data that is end to end encrypted, at least with the open source Signal app is not vaccumed up by the NSA (or similar agency) and stored somewhere. What is a technical explanation of why you are so confident that this is not the case? I must (politely) insist that it's not possible through "magic" and there has to be a technical way to do it.... or it simply isn't happening.

And BTW, my first message below was very civil, and then was hit with some unprovoked uncivil replies, so I then just responded in kind. But sure, I get that I still I could have toned it down a bit, and I never want to break any rules of the site.

Unfortunately some of what was in my replies was valuable info for other members, now lost from the conversation. Oh well, I guess anyone who cares, can google or ask AI about E2E and Signal app and come to their own well informed conclusion. But don't trust SMS (even on a burner) because it is true that all of those messages are certainly vacuumed up, no doubts about that.

[JmSuttr]

As Admin rightly pointed out, the NSA hoovers up anything that can be hoovered up. But, on the non-spook side of the fence, the average monger probably has more to fear from third-party data brokers than they do from LE. Here's why:

Most LE agencies have contracts with third-party data brokers. Usually there's a website with a login and a LEO or analyst can plug in whatever info they have and do a search. But the agency has to pay for access, so some agencies may place constraints such that the system can't be used for unlimited fishing expeditions. Others may ask their people to go easy on the searches as it gets closer to the end of the fiscal year. But, even if not, nothing in any third-party database meets the evidentiary standard that would allow it to be used in court. Instead, LE treats such info as leads, requiring follow-up that usually requires obtaining a Grand Jury subpoena. GJ subpoenas are only issued in furtherance of felony investigations. Which means, as I wrote in an earlier post, you'll be fine as long as you steer well-clear of anything that even smells like trafficking. Always remember that LE tries to stretch the definition of trafficking to cover as much of garden-variety prostitution as possible. You can't assume or become complacent in any way.

BUT, the restrictions that apply to LE very notably do NOT apply to divorce lawyers and private investigators. They also have subscriptions to the data brokers and, while they may not be able get as much info as LE, they can still get a lot. Consider, for example (depending on the state), that the car you drive is considered community property. That means the wife has an interest in knowing where that car has been. A good divorce lawyer could easily write up a justification to convince a judge. For example, the husband is suspected of shielding assets and the wife needs to know if the car has visited banks or other financial establishments at which the husband hasn't declared any active accounts. Or, in states where extramarital activity is deemed relevant, the car being driven to hotels or unknown residences can be a big problem. As I sit here thinking about it, I wouldn't be surprised if these matters were addressed during the discovery / financial disclosure process. The husband might be presented with a consent form, or the judge could simply issue an order allowing it.

For anyone with a low-tech wife or SO, that's great unless she hires a high-tech PI or divorce lawyer. Everyone can assess their own situation, but the purpose of this post is to point out the scourge of third-party data brokers. They operate (IMO) on the fringes of legal privacy protections. But their business model is to gather, package, and sell as much sensitive information as they can. For every additional data point that's created about you, there's a buyer standing ready. Here's the website of just a single company that specializes in vehicle data:

https://ims.tech/vdx/

P.S. If you think you have a vehicle telematics system with a simple on-off switch, I would encourage you to research your specific brand and model. I think most will be shocked at the info collected, uploaded, and stored. And even more shocked at the difficulty, or impossibility, of shutting down the flow.

[RogerOver]

I know for a fact that this isn't the case after a family member's trial. They absolutely can extract data from a locked phone.

I think it really depends on the phone's config. Here's a recent example of a reporter's phone that couldn't be accessed. She did have it in a very secure state called "lockdown" mode though.

"New court record from the FBI details the state of the devices seized from Washington Post reporter Hannah Natanson"

This is high profile espionage case related to leak of TOPSECRET documents, therefore probably all possible tech was used to gain access to the devices.

Page 5:

In the upstairs of the house, investigators located a powered-off silver MacBook Pro with a black case, an Apple iPhone 13*, a Handy branded audio recording device, and a Seagate portable hard drive. See id. 26. Investigators seized these devices. The iPhone was found powered on and charging, and its display noted that the phone was in Lockdown mode*

Page 6:

The Computer Analysis Response Team (CART) began processing each device to preserve the information therein. The Handy recorder and the Seagate portable drive have been processed, but no review has occurred. See id. 37. Because the iPhone was in Lockdown mode, CART could not extract that device*. See id. 35. Similarly, the personal MacBook Pro could not be imaged yet. See id. 36. The Garmin watch was not processed before this Couts Standstill Order, and no further processing will occur until further order of the Court. See id. 37*


https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...772.35.0_1.pdf

[Admin2]

This is the Admin speaking. Some of you mother fuckers need to learn to be more civil. We have fight threads for stupidly like I just cleaned up.

A2

Not the Admin speaking. Signal is a US company who uses Amazon, Microsoft, and Google cloud services to run their business. They do not store messages and if you set the contact to disappear the messages you send will be erased from the account (which includes all devices) based on whatever time you set and that clock starts when they open the message. The will respond to subpoenas but the only info they store is when you created the account and the last time you connected to the server. Telegram is the non US company, it's based in Dubai and it's founders are Russian they do store messages and they do respond to subpoenas if you are breaking either the law or their terms of service.

As far as "OpSec" (I get a kick out of you guys playing GI Joe) that depends on who is looking for you. If it's the locals you're good, if you get in the NSA's crosshairs you're fucking toast. It doesn't matter if the messages are erased because fucking everything, and by everything I mean every mother fucking piece of electronic info in the world, is hoovered up and stored in this data center.

https://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/

Which the NSA can access anytime they want and they will break any encryption like a hot knife going through butter.

The good new is they don't care about somebody buying a blowjob. This is not The Silk Road and none of you are DPR they don't give a fuck about you. You should be more worried about your wives than them.

A2, the guy, not the god like presence on the forum.

[RufusDoofus]

Wrong. You are incredibly confused on all counts..

I know for a fact that this isn't the case after a family member's trial. They absolutely can extract data from a locked phone.

[FarFarAway]

I appreciate all this stuff. Again, my big worry isn't LE, but my SO, and possible a SB who is bent on extortion, which she can only do if she get my IRL identity.

Is it not the case if two cell phones are nearby for a significant period of time, that can be sussed out? I thought that is how the affair between David Petraeus and his biographer was discovered by the NSA.

I have a burner that I never turn on at home, or even have in my home. I never connect to home Wifi. Only in a Starbucks. But of course there are times (like when I am seeing a SB) that my IRL phone is there and on, just in case something happens in my work / family. And my burner is there and on, because I've been using it for play. Someone could figure out that the burner was mine, and then go back and figure out what the burner has been doing. But who would this be? LE and the Feds are the only people with that power, both technically and legally, correct? There's no way the SO or a SB can use this.

I just got a new car that has the capability to be tracked on an app on my phone. I turned that damn thing off PDQ, and hope that my technically non-savvy SO never hears about the capability and suggests I set that up.

[JaySinn]

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A2

[Peter Johnson]

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A2

[JmSuttr]

At times LE is written about in this forum as if they're omniscient and omnipotent. While there are certainly exceptional circumstances in which they appear so, in general they're quite ordinary and suffer from many of the dysfunctions and shortcomings that plague other organizations. They also, with the exception of local LE's patrol function, don't work 24/7. Vice units, or 'anti-trafficking' units are more likely to work M-F, or maybe some kind of 4/10 schedule. I can't recall the last time I heard about an AMP bust that took place on a weekend, or after normal business hours. That's because those ops are planned and executed by the specialized units. They may use patrol units as extra personnel to ensure officer safety, but it's the specialized unit that will conduct the raid, arrests, interviews, follow-up, and all the report writing. If you think about it, there's not much meaningful difference between a raid that happens on a weekday vs one that happens on a weekend. Except that the weekend operation will almost certainly incur a sh*tload of overtime! And if there is one thing LE mgmt hates above all else, it's paying for OT that's clearly avoidable.

That's a local example, for illustration purposes, and it's certainly possible that some county, state, or federal unit (or task force) may operate differently. But, even if so, the point is still valid that logistical and monetary constraints mean that exceptional treatment is usually reserved for exceptional cases. For AMPs and agencies, there's really no way for the average monger to know if their favorite provider is part of a group that's on LE's 'anti-trafficking' radar. And, while trafficking triggers all of the LE tools available for felony investigations, LE generally only has the resources to go after the lowest-hanging fruit. In the Boston / NOVA agency bust that happened last year, LE's initial announcement made it sound like large numbers (scores) of clients were going to be named, shamed, and charged. Instead, only a few (single digits, IIRC) ended up in a bad way. And those were the ones who made it super-easy for LE.

Of course, the simplest way to avoid 99.99% of LE issues is to stick with providers who are truly independent. The vast majority of P2 P, sex-for-money activity, between a single client and an indie provider is only at the level of a misdemeanor. LE, esp above the local level, simply ain't got time to deal with misdemeanors. One exception would be hotel stings aimed at arresting multiple providers and clients. Those are usually PR stunts, or conducted in response to community complaints, but they're still only worth doing because they net multiple arrests. A single client seeing a single provider, incall or outcall, simply doesn't move the needle for LE.

Stick with indies if you want your sleep untroubled by thoughts of LE. Otherwise, follow the advice in this forum and avoid being the low-hanging fruit.

[JaySinn]

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We have fight threads for stupidity like this. This thread is for adults, if you can't act like one then STFU.

A2

[BMoreDog69]

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We have fight threads for stupidity like this. This thread is for adults, if you can't act like one then STFU.

A2

[Peter Johnson]

I'm glad I found this thread. So I am single, retired, not concerned about my "reputation" in the community, so my main concern is with LE, not with my public reputation. We all know there are a lot of batshit crazy women out there, and I don't need one saying I knocked her up or blackmailing me with fake rape or sexual assault allegations, etc.

I see some messages below about burner phones, but I'm wondering why I'm not reading much about encrypted communications. I insist that I only talk to most of these girls on the Signal app (with disappearing messages set to a few weeks, if not shorter). I mainly do sugar dating, and the majority of the potential sugar babies will humor me and get on there. But regular escorts / massage girls often won't want to bother.

I just don't want some girl to get busted for whatever, and have my SMS messages on her phone. Then I get put on some list or investigated for whatever, and no thanks. There are news stories every day about someone being prosecuted, and their texts, emails and browser history are used as evidence. Fairly easy to use Signal and VPN, and no those don't protect you 100% but they go a long way.

But with a burner phone, if you are doing SMS texting on it, all those texts are just vacuumed up into NSA servers, at the very least not to mention Verizon employees possibly having access to them, and just not acceptable to me.

Ok I'm rambling but I'm glad I found this thread, and will follow the discussion.