"Sugar Babies" and "Arrangements"

[Peter Johnson]

Hear, hear! I wish I knew then what IK now, I would have been able to get a lot better pussy than I did then, and more of it.

I also understand women a lot better now, and would scored much better w / long-term GFs / wives if I had known it then. I'd have been both more assertive and directive, god they eat that up, regardless of their sociopolitical leanings.

I'd also suggest the 'May-December' "romances", those have been around forever too. It is just that it was hard to find like-minded people before, without websites where one could safely express interest without revealing personal information. Especially so for those of us w / SOs. I mean, if I was running around hitting on 19 year olds in my social circles, it would have gotten back to my SO and I'd have been regarded as a lecher / pedo (actually, the proper term is ephebophile, if you are interested in (legal) teenagers). But on the sites, girls already are stating they have an interest in older, in some cases much older, dudes, so there's no shame in that, and no way my interest in banging a babe comes back on me.

Yes same here, and when I was younger, I was so confused about women, and what they want and find attractive. Now there are Youtube channels and podcasts that discuss it, so young guys today are quicker to figure it all out. But I was just mostly clueless when I was in my 20's-40's. I could have done so much better back then, but I just wasn't smart enough to ascertain the true reality. Oh well, I did try to make up for lost time and not like I totally missed out, with 600+ bodycount, but it is painful and frustrating to think about.

And sure just like CL Casual Encounters used to be a way for the horniest women to congregate and hook up, the Seeking site obviously filters larger society down to the most interested and motivated sugar babies. It's a relatively efficient way to find them, rather than propositioning random waitresses.

You are right that of course the term "pedo" is misused by so many morons out there. Even Epstein was attracted to young post-pubescent women, nothing pedo there. And I will take it farther and say that "ephebophile' is essentially a meaningless and worthless term. Most teenagers are young women, and normal healthy men are attracted to *women*, young and old. Pedo is pre-pubescent child, and I think all of us would agree that only sick, deviant guys would find that attractive. There is no real extra amorphous category between child and adult. But the main point is all of us are attracted to beautiful women. And of course the legal age varies by jurisdiction.

[Peter Pan]

Have you seen any discounts? Share the link?

[FarFarAway]

And yes, escorts and hookers have been around forever, but the sb experience can be a a slightly different vibe, or a lot different. I'm still thankful I can somehow CIP some of these girls, that I couldn't even get 20 or 30 years ago.

Hear, hear! I wish I knew then what IK now, I would have been able to get a lot better pussy than I did then, and more of it.

I also understand women a lot better now, and would scored much better w / long-term GFs / wives if I had known it then. I'd have been both more assertive and directive, god they eat that up, regardless of their sociopolitical leanings.

I'd also suggest the 'May-December' "romances", those have been around forever too. It is just that it was hard to find like-minded people before, without websites where one could safely express interest without revealing personal information. Especially so for those of us w / SOs. I mean, if I was running around hitting on 19 year olds in my social circles, it would have gotten back to my SO and I'd have been regarded as a lecher / pedo (actually, the proper term is ephebophile, if you are interested in (legal) teenagers). But on the sites, girls already are stating they have an interest in older, in some cases much older, dudes, so there's no shame in that, and no way my interest in banging a babe comes back on me.

[Peter Johnson]

I'm paying to fuck younger, prettier girls than I would normally be able to at a much higher success rate. Any guy who has spent time on dating apps or hookup apps knows how frustrating they are to deal with. And when you're old or ugly, or in my case both lol, then the only women who will ever match with you are also old and ugly. But I don't want to fuck old and ugly. And I have enough means that I don't have to. But I also don't want a transactional fuck with a dead fish, which let's be honest is most escorts, so I've found SBs to give me access to the hotties I want to fuck, and the sex feels like a fun hookup with a girl I picked up rather than an escort on her 5th John for the night and just wants you to pump and dump and leave.

Well said. Despite all the headaches and flakes, it really is amazing that we get to fuck these young attractive women, and BBFS even.

And yes, escorts and hookers have been around forever, but the sb experience can be a a slightly different vibe, or a lot different. I'm still thankful I can somehow CIP some of these girls, that I couldn't even get 20 or 30 years ago.

[GoneForGood97]

I'm looking for fun with these girls, and if I'm paying them money, then I shouldn't have to also "game" them other than the bare minimum.

You just described a hooker / prostitute / escort. And that's fine. You can jump on Tryst or dozen other sites, or reach out to one of the agencies, and can absolutely find what you're looking for.

But a SB isn't a hooker. And if you can't understand or figure out the difference, then just stick with hookers. You get exactly what you want, though probably not at the prices you want.

I'm guessing your approach requires "game" effort which requires an ass load of time, and yet you're still paying for sex.

That only makes sense in a vanilla situation.

I'm paying to fuck younger, prettier girls than I would normally be able to at a much higher success rate. Any guy who has spent time on dating apps or hookup apps knows how frustrating they are to deal with. And when you're old or ugly, or in my case both lol, then the only women who will ever match with you are also old and ugly. But I don't want to fuck old and ugly. And I have enough means that I don't have to. But I also don't want a transactional fuck with a dead fish, which let's be honest is most escorts, so I've found SBs to give me access to the hotties I want to fuck, and the sex feels like a fun hookup with a girl I picked up rather than an escort on her 5th John for the night and just wants you to pump and dump and leave.

[HollowGuy]

I'm guessing your approach requires "game" effort which requires an ass load of time, and yet you're still paying for sex.

That only makes sense in a vanilla situation.

I'm looking for fun with these girls, and if I'm paying them money, then I shouldn't have to also "game" them other than the bare minimum.

When you truly have game, opportunities multiply without force. People invite, include, and open doors you never had to knock on. For me, the appeal goes far deeper than surface level pleasure. It's about operating from choice rather than compulsion being driven by intention, not desire.

For me, having game means I'm not ruled by impulse. It means I can explore my fantasies, move through social spaces with ease, and live expansively without excess, without desperation, and without paying an unnecessary price.

[FarFarAway]

This site messes things up sometimes.

I said I had been w / some girls who were one-third my age. The special character got deleted.

[LouisHernandez]

I'm guessing your approach requires "game" effort which requires an ass load of time, and yet you're still paying for sex.

That only makes sense in a vanilla situation.

I'm looking for fun with these girls, and if I'm paying them money, then I shouldn't have to also "game" them other than the bare minimum.

I'm going to be honest with you brother, it sounds like you're mostly interacting with pros, semi-pros, or girls you're treating as such.

I've been in the bowl off and on at least 5 years. I've smashed over a 100 girls at this point, almost all of them in their 20's, all for between 150-300. I've never had a girl I was seeing try to "go up" on our arrangement. But I don't waste time with pros / semi-pros. And like FarFarAway said, "If you want to get a SB at a reasonable price, treat her like a date, not an escort, and not a one-night stand. Before, during, and after the date. There are those who are looking for that, and their ask isn't crazy. " I 100% agree with him. If girls are raising their rates on you, then you're either talking to pros / semi-pros and missing out on the real SBs, or for whatever reason the girls feel your dates are transactional. Never had a girl ask for a higher PPM but had plenty accept less or go down to nothing after a few dates, and even the occasional freebie out the gate costing nothing but a dinner or cheap gift. But any girl I talk to if I get a whiff of GPS, or that she's transactional or a pro I block and move on.

[FarFarAway]

In fact here's a recent comment from a guy proving my point:

"Exactly! I don't mind paying for the sure thing and cutting through the BS, even at $700 it would be an.

Excellent deal considering pros are charging that (or more) per hour! And damn that is awesome for a 21.

Yo regular. I'm talking to some young ones on SB but I am getting serious flake vibes which doesn't really.

Work when you don't have much time to screw around."

That won't stop other guys from offering her 700 is she's young & hot. The only key differentiator here is being one of her first. Has nothing to do with how you treat her. You can treat her as an escort / one night stand and get the same rate she agreed to when she first got on the site. Your treatment isn't what makes her price go up.

You claimed you never negotiated time w / a girl, and I simply quoted from an earlier post from you that you had done exactly that. Keeping your stories straight is a good idea.

I'll just say what I think is a truism from being here for a long time, and no doubt being a lot older than you. Everybody here gets the sugarbowl they're looking for.

If you treat girls like hookers, you'll get those who are responding to your messages and acting like that. If you treat them like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman, and you've got Gere's character's dough, you'll get a girl like that. You can make a girl a kept woman. Just pay for the car and apartment and you can have a smoking hot chick exclusive.

I've never had any POT or SB play their OF experience off against me, because I am simply not interested in someone who would have that on their resume. I've never pursued strippers who sometimes show up on the site, because they have a reputation for GPS. When I've learned in talking w / a girl that she's been a kept woman in her past, I move on, because IK once someone has had that experience, it is going to affect their sense of entitlement, and I'm unlikely to be able to fit it into what I can give in sugar. I'm looking for someone I can see ongoing for a reasonable price, and even a 30's MILF is very acceptable (if she's pretty and likes sex) b / c I'm still twice her age. Though I've also gotten lucky w / some who were & my age. Likewise porn stars. Just no interest. And in fact the lore in my local SB thread, for southern California, where there are a lot of them, is that porn stars are some of the worst SB experiences guys have had.

[Peter Johnson]

As others have said, only YOU can decide how much risk you want to take.

I say about 90% of the girls that I have fucked, I fucked them raw and nut inside them multiple times. Always have Plan B pills ready. They are dirt cheap at places like Costco and Sam.
.

I have had many of the girls take Plan B pill as well, after CIP. They are usually happy to to do it, although some exceptions if they have side effects in the past. However this is all discussed before the date.

But remember that Plan B is not 100%. I know a girl who got pregnant after taking one, and here's what I just googled:

"Plan B (levonorgestrel) is highly effective at preventing pregnancy when taken soon after unprotected sex, reducing the risk by about 75-89% within 3 days, and even more (up to 95%) if taken within 24 hours, but its effectiveness decreases over time and is lower for people with higher Body Mass Indexes (BMI). It works best as soon as possible, ideally within 72 hours.

I'm certainly not saying don't depend on them, but just know the facts. I have my supply that I bought for dirt cheap ($8 each on Amazon), but I am going to try to get a vasectomy early this year to cut down on the risk significantly.

[Peter Johnson]

Personally I don't negotiate a time, I go with the flow and only bring it up when I know it would potentially be a issue with the girl.
The only times where I bring up 3 hours is when I can tell from the vibes of the conversation that they are not going to spend atleast 3 hours then I tell them they must hang out at least 3 hours.

There are times we are watching netflix and its been 2 hours and she says she's ready to go and then I say I always hangout atleast 3 hours. Then they willing stay for the rest of the time.

Doing things this way protects me and reveals the girls who are truly SBs. So if a girl do stay more than 3 hours, you know they are truly a sugar baby and a keeper.

It helps you weed out without getting fucked over.

I always mention beforehand that I expect them to hang out for at least a couple of hours. I don't say three hours, because that is often (but not always) too long for me. Once I get off, I'm usually ready for them to leave not long after. It's better to have the most important parts of the date, agreed to beforehand. BBFS or CFS, and how much time. Otherwise you are just rolling the dice, and unless you get off on that, it isn't really smart.

The rest of what you are saying is contradictory. You say you have magical powers to tell from the "vibe" of the conversation if they will spend 3 hrs with you. But if one leaves before that amount of time, it protects you from getting fucked over somehow because now you know she's not a true "keeper". But she already just left early, so you already got "fucked over", by your definition.

Anyway so great, your 180 minute amount of time works for you. Other guys just want 60 min or 120 or a full overnight. And yes some guys are giving these girls $1000 for a couple of hours, because $1 k is nothing to them. That's far out of my price range and I've barely done half of that, but it doesn't make sense to be complain about the whales, and the true players. Who are pricing you (and many of us) out of some segments of the market.

Economics 101 These women are worth what the market will bear. You can lament that rich professionals with limited time will pay more to land younger ones without the hassle, that OnlyFans is skewing the market, and that incels are paying for plutonic arrangements. But none of the complaints are going to change the market realities. The economy is doing well and more men have money to burn. If we have a big recession with job losses and pay cuts for the professional class, prices will come down.

Yes exactly. It is sad that some dudes are simping, and paying more than they should, but the wealthy guys are paying what they want and we just have to deal with the downstream effects.

[GoneForGood97]

This has happened many times over the years.

I even talked about another girl here that went from 300 to over 600 in a span of like 2 months or something.

When I messaged her months later that we agreed on 300 months ago she laughed and said no way.

I then sent her a SS and then she said well that was then, now she doesn't anymore.

I'm going to be honest with you brother, it sounds like you're mostly interacting with pros, semi-pros, or girls you're treating as such.

I've been in the bowl off and on at least 5 years. I've smashed over a 100 girls at this point, almost all of them in their 20's, all for between 150-300. I've never had a girl I was seeing try to "go up" on our arrangement. But I don't waste time with pros / semi-pros. And like FarFarAway said, "If you want to get a SB at a reasonable price, treat her like a date, not an escort, and not a one-night stand. Before, during, and after the date. There are those who are looking for that, and their ask isn't crazy. " I 100% agree with him. If girls are raising their rates on you, then you're either talking to pros / semi-pros and missing out on the real SBs, or for whatever reason the girls feel your dates are transactional. Never had a girl ask for a higher PPM but had plenty accept less or go down to nothing after a few dates, and even the occasional freebie out the gate costing nothing but a dinner or cheap gift. But any girl I talk to if I get a whiff of GPS, or that she's transactional or a pro I block and move on.

[LouisHernandez]

My last foray into the scene, the only thing I could pull were black girls b / c they are in low demand. And that's a shady move, even though I've found a few good ones in their early 20's ones and paid $200-$250.

Anyway I think I'll try a completely new angle. No more sugarbaby sites. B / c there is no way on gods green earth I'm shelling out $400+ just to get laid with some trashy girl.

There is a old saying "a woman that can be bought isn't worth having". Well I say "a woman with GPS is not worth it. ".

[Doctor Sugar]

This absolutely happened with that girl. Do you want see the text messages?

She even sent me a verification picture that I will include here (left is her / right is her friend).

Not sure why I would lie. This has happened many times over the years.

I even talked about another girl here that went from 300 to over 600 in a span of like 2 months or something.

When I messaged her months later that we agreed on 300 months ago she laughed and said no way.

I then sent her a SS and then she said well that was then, now she doesn't anymore.

No matter what you do the hot ones always get priced up unless you are one of the first to see them, then you lock in at the price you're seeing them for.

If I drove to see that one girl and then saw her one or two times a week, I would have locked her in on the 300. She would have made everyone else pay 600+ other than me.

This has happened many times, girls would tell me that others pay more than me.

This is true but this isn't what I'm referring to. The TOP girls making all the money are making it from a smaller pool of incel young men.

For example Sophie Rain highest spender has given her over $5 million dollars and she has never and will never touch him.

And this isn't rare, this is normal and very common, these incels spend 10 k, 100 k and get nothing in return.

The reason the top girls make so much is that they funnel themselves through streamers by collabs and then use that to get teenage subscribers, etc. (Jack Doherty, neon, etc). Look up bop house.

The "catch me outside" girl Danielle Bregoli made over 1 million 6 hours after her 18th birthday. Yes 6 hours!

And she has made 75 million since.

The people shelling out money to these girls for absolutely nothing are young incels like this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/whiteknight...he_follows_on/

They are not us. They are not trying to date / fuck these girls. They would be satisfied just getting a hug.

It absolutely contributes indirectly. OF has hurt the sugar bowl. There's nothing that has had more negative impact on the SB than OF.

Before it blew up in popularity during covid in 2020, I had not ran into a single girl that was selling pictures / videos.

We have proof from OF top spenders that the people who spend 10 k, 100 k 1 mil, 10 mill for absolutely nothing are INCELS.

So yes they do affect the SB market even if its an illusion that girls have thinking they can make Sophie rain kind of money.

Then you have other guys who will gladly spend 700+ on girls, there are alot of these people they exist. And my two anecdotes are factual evidence of this phenomenon.

In fact here's a recent comment from a guy proving my point:

"Exactly! I don't mind paying for the sure thing and cutting through the BS, even at $700 it would be an.

Excellent deal considering pros are charging that (or more) per hour! And damn that is awesome for a 21.

Yo regular. I'm talking to some young ones on SB but I am getting serious flake vibes which doesn't really.

Work when you don't have much time to screw around."

That won't stop other guys from offering her 700 is she's young & hot. The only key differentiator here is being one of her first. Has nothing to do with how you treat her. You can treat her as an escort / one night stand and get the same rate she agreed to when she first got on the site. Your treatment isn't what makes her price go up.

Economics 101 — These women are worth what the market will bear. You can lament that rich professionals with limited time will pay more to land younger ones without the hassle, that OnlyFans is skewing the market, and that incels are paying for plutonic arrangements. But none of the complaints are going to change the market realities. The economy is doing well and more men have money to burn. If we have a big recession with job losses and pay cuts for the professional class, prices will come down.

[Sneakey1961]

Hey Gents.

This one has been hitting me up, she looks SO familiar? I reverse image searched nothing. Anybody have experience or recognize her?

https://members.seeking.com/member/c...7-fa19aacc0776

https://images-cdn.seeking.com/49c89...b6SOZkIfF5SA__