Rants and Stupid shit in Orange County

[Grimmy23]

JK, of course, you guys are solid contributors and mongers (okay, noted about the monger misnomer, so for a minute we'll can call ourselves partakers). Agreed, that true human trafficking of any kind is a very bad thing, but I am also doubtful that I've ever been with a provider who was in a trafficked situation whereby she was abused or hurt.

Maybe I'm in denial, but it just doesn't seem to be the case, especially when one's provider is laughing, playful, orgasmic, and more. Or maybe I'm just lucky.

Yes, while it's true that in places like Hypno and a few other spots, the girls get rotated; they also get rotated back to Hypno after a few weeks, and they still have huge smiles on their faces and good attitudes when providing there again. I've been around the block, and I don't think it's all a big act. Especially since they joke and laugh with one another in Mandarin, Vietnamese or whatever their homeland language is at the places to which I frequent.

That said, should I happen upon spots in the future where the girls are morose and not seeming to enjoy the give-and-take, I'll think twice about re-frequenting those places. But for me, so far, so good.

It's all good, Sticker. In the OC you're statistically more likely to run into trafficking in a restaurant or hotel than you are in an MP. There are some documented cases where it has happened in the past few years, but for the most part if you’re patronizing AMPs you're safe. If you're visiting private apartment girls or street girls the chances are much higher. Also Latina MPs. That’s not to say all of them are problematic, but you’re far more likely to run into trafficked Latinas than Asians.

What's more difficult to deal with is what I'd call quid pro quo trafficking. That's a huge grey area even for me. I won't mention any shop names, but there's a few in the area that operate like this, and even I visit them. I keep going back but I struggle with the ethics of it. Say a shop offers their girls room and board for a reasonable fee, but they have to keep working there to get that. For example, say they get a house to live in and all the food they need for $500/ month. It's not great living conditions but it’s a roof over their head and a place to sleep. There's 10 - 12 other girls plus the MMS and PPS sharing the 4 bedroom house so it's a bit crowded and there's no privacy. The food is edible but not the greatest. They're driven to and from work in a van so they don't need a car. The girls are free to leave anytime they want, but if they quit they have to move out of the house. Now you have a girl who wants to quit, but she'd have to find a place to live and something to do for a living. She’s 5000 miles from home, speaks little English and has no marketable skills that would pay her anywhere hear what she gets from doing sex work. So it boils down to being "happy" with jerking a dozen random cocks all day long and making good money, or trying to do something else and struggling. Given a choice, I don't think many of them really want to jerk cocks, but they become dependent on the money and don't see any other real options. That's another form of trafficking, but not in the form that most people think of trafficking where the girls are essentially imprisoned.

Bottom line is I just use my gut, and if my gut tells me that something is off I won’t go there.

[Sticker]

LHU, thank you for the kind words. I have a high level of respect for you as well as one of the long time posters here. It's fairly safe to say that if you're visiting an AMP around here the girls are not trafficked. They're there by their own will in the vast majority of the cases. There are of course some exceptions. For LMPs the chances of trafficking are a bit higher. For private escorts working out of residences, the numbers go up a bit for both Asian and Latina. The numbers jump significantly for street prostitutes.

JK, of course, you guys are solid contributors and mongers (okay, noted about the monger misnomer, so for a minute we'll can call ourselves partakers). Agreed, that true human trafficking of any kind is a very bad thing, but I am also doubtful that I've ever been with a provider who was in a trafficked situation whereby she was abused or hurt.

Maybe I'm in denial, but it just doesn't seem to be the case, especially when one's provider is laughing, playful, orgasmic, and more. Or maybe I'm just lucky.

Yes, while it's true that in places like Hypno and a few other spots, the girls get rotated; they also get rotated back to Hypno after a few weeks, and they still have huge smiles on their faces and good attitudes when providing there again. I've been around the block, and I don't think it's all a big act. Especially since they joke and laugh with one another in Mandarin, Vietnamese or whatever their homeland language is at the places to which I frequent.

That said, should I happen upon spots in the future where the girls are morose and not seeming to enjoy the give-and-take, I'll think twice about re-frequenting those places. But for me, so far, so good.

[Grimmy23]

Grimmy is one of my most respected contributors to USASG. So it is with tender steps that I take a slightly different view. Until falling in with Cindy in the OC a year ago, I did most of my FS in the SGV, from 2008 on, and the majority was with services that swapped out the staff every ten days to two weeks. With the exception of Lucy at Fish and Chips and a few others I really hadn't had a whole lot of luck or really good experiences down here. In the SGV places, usually houses or condos or nice apartments and not free-standing businesses, when I would ask the girls how long they were going to be here it was generally not more than a few days, and sometimes they'd know what distant city they were headed for and sometimes not. I would ask if they were happy here and they would seem to be, only one said no, she missed China. I might add that in most cases they said they were from Guangzhou. I never had the feeling that any of these workers had been tricked or strong-armed into servicing me. I say this, knowing that most of our population thinks the girls have been tricked, passports seized, essentially been held prisoners as sex slaves.

Now if I'm mistaken then I've been making a horrible mistake and spending my money to support cruel repression, and I so regret it. But I don't think so. But I'm open to evidence.

My main problem with the houses is that when I get someone who is really specially good to me, it's no use 'cause she's gone in a few days.

Let me also bring up the various meanings of trafficking. My unabridged dictionary says that it can refer to dealing in anything, like tomatoes, or it can imply dealing in something illegal. The legal definition in the US, I think, is transporting a woman across state lines for something illegal, though most people who say "human trafficking" just mean forced sex work or slave labor without the "transport" concept necessarily. So I suggest we all be clear, as we usually are, what the intended meaning of trafficking is when we write it.

And while I'm on the subject of definitions, let me say that traditionally, a monger is someone who sells something. A fishmonger is the guy who sells fish. A *monger is a pimp, at least in its original meaning. We've switched the meaning to refer to us clients of these professionals. OK, enough ranting from me.

Lift Her Up.

LHU, thank you for the kind words. I have a high level of respect for you as well as one of the long time posters here. Allow me to add some context to the discussion. Yes, trafficking is absolutely real. As part of my "civil responsibility" as an owner of a legit massage business I work with an organization that provides support to trafficking victims. It's fairly safe to say that if you're visiting an AMP around here the girls are not trafficked. They're there by their own will in the vast majority of the cases. There are of course some exceptions. For LMPs the chances of trafficking are a bit higher. For private escorts working out of residences, the numbers go up a bit for both Asian and Latina. The numbers jump significantly for street prostitutes.

Some rough stats. There's an estimated 16,000 trafficking situations in the US per year. A "situation" can have multiple victims. Out of those situations, only 10% of them are for sex trafficking. The bulk are forced labor in restaurants, cleaning, and so on. So per year there's roughly 1600 known sex trafficking incidents in the US. Most of those involve several victims, so that equates to around 5000 - 6000 known victims per year who are forced into the trade. Out of those, about 30% are minors (very sad) - they're dealt on the streets or in private apartments. That leaves about 4000 adults. Out of those, the biggest demographic by far is Latina. Only 27% of them are Asian, and the biggest Asian demographics are Korean and Vietnamese. Chinese fall pretty low on the spectrum. There are some other demographics mixed in there. African and a small percentage of white. So overall, if you're visiting a Chinese shop, your chances of seeing girls who are trafficked are pretty small. If you're visiting a Latina shop they're quite a bit higher. I personally choose to avoid places that have entire new staffs frequently, or places that show any signs of the girls living in the shop. Those are two of the biggest telltale signs. That's just me though. It doesn't always mean trafficking, but they're a couple of the biggest indicators.

Another thing about trafficking is a lot of the victims are so well conditioned that they don't even realize they're being trafficked. That's a lot more common than people realize. I won't get too far into that though because it's an entirely different issue that gets to be a very complicated discussion. Some can make valid arguments that girls can be doing this voluntarily, and they're here legally, but they speak little English and have no other means of making enough money to support themselves. That in itself can be a form of trafficking, and not in the more conventional form of them having their passports taken away and forced to perform sexual services. As I said though, that's quite complicated and isn't included in the numbers I gave.

So bottom line, there's not a lot to worry about here, but there have been known cases of trafficking in MPs. Chances are if you're visiting places that are reviewed here you're not encountering them. The stats are in your favor. But recognize that there are some out there, and I choose to avoid ones that show potential signs of it.

[Lift Her Up]

There is in fact an organized trafficking network that shuttles girls around from state to state. This doesn't apply to the vast majority of the shops and girls that are reviewed in this forum. In fact I'm not aware of any in the OC that fall into that category. There are some north of us that likely do , , .

Grimmy is one of my most respected contributors to USASG. So it is with tender steps that I take a slightly different view. Until falling in with Cindy in the OC a year ago, I did most of my FS in the SGV, from 2008 on, and the majority was with services that swapped out the staff every ten days to two weeks. With the exception of Lucy at Fish and Chips and a few others I really hadn't had a whole lot of luck or really good experiences down here. In the SGV places, usually houses or condos or nice apartments and not free-standing businesses, when I would ask the girls how long they were going to be here it was generally not more than a few days, and sometimes they'd know what distant city they were headed for and sometimes not. I would ask if they were happy here and they would seem to be, only one said no, she missed China. I might add that in most cases they said they were from Guangzhou. I never had the feeling that any of these workers had been tricked or strong-armed into servicing me. I say this, knowing that most of our population thinks the girls have been tricked, passports seized, essentially been held prisoners as sex slaves.

Now if I'm mistaken then I've been making a horrible mistake and spending my money to support cruel repression, and I so regret it. But I don't think so. But I'm open to evidence.

My main problem with the houses is that when I get someone who is really specially good to me, it's no use 'cause she's gone in a few days.

Let me also bring up the various meanings of trafficking. My unabridged dictionary says that it can refer to dealing in anything, like tomatoes, or it can imply dealing in something illegal. The legal definition in the US, I think, is transporting a woman across state lines for something illegal, though most people who say "human trafficking" just mean forced sex work or slave labor without the "transport" concept necessarily. So I suggest we all be clear, as we usually are, what the intended meaning of trafficking is when we write it.

And while I'm on the subject of definitions, let me say that traditionally, a monger is someone who sells something. A fishmonger is the guy who sells fish. A *monger is a pimp, at least in its original meaning. We've switched the meaning to refer to us clients of these professionals. OK, enough ranting from me.

Lift Her Up.

[Grimmy23]

I'm responding to DarkRoomDaddy's post 33232 on the Massage thread, and LngTimeMongr's 33226. The few times I've asked at the Chinese houses and apartments in the SGV they've said they're going to a place quite a ways east, like Chicago or someplace in Texas. A couple of times they said they didn't know, and it sounded like they really didn't, but who knows. And usually they say they've been in the USA Just a few weeks or months. I have the impression there's a team of PPSs and MMSs that moves them around. But I've yet to run into one of them who seemed miserable in this line of work. Some are really into it, others just doing a job to earn money. And there's the occasional gem who's really really into it, ahhh.

Lift Her Up.

There is in fact an organized trafficking network that shuttles girls around from state to state. This doesn't apply to the vast majority of the shops and girls that are reviewed in this forum. In fact I'm not aware of any in the OC that fall into that category. There are some north of us that likely do. Almost all of us are reporting on girls that we've been seeing for years. They certainly aren't in this category, and most of them are doing this kind of work by choice. A lot of them aren't necessarily doing it because they like it, but they like the money, and they don't have any marketable skills that would pay them anywhere near that much. But there most definitely are a large number of girls who are trafficked, predominantly Asian and Latina. The different locations they're moved around to aren't necessarily related. Think of the trafficking network as a temporary job service that the MPs utilize. I won't get into more details as it's not really necessary here. Bottom line for me, and this is entirely my choice, I stay away from places that get entirely new lineups of girls every couple of weeks. That's normally a telltale sign of trafficking, and while I'm not against paying to play once in a while, I won't patronize a shop if I have even the slightest suspicion that trafficking may be happening. If a girl is fine with tugging dicks for a living, that's her choice and I'm not judgmental. But if she's being forced to jerk random guys off beyond her will, that's an entirely different matter.

[DarkRoomDaddy]

You been here befo?

Who do for you last time?

50+ worn-out granny: How long you want? (ad showed 20 something babe).

One ouwa sik-tee.

Lili go vacation. Coco do for you. She berry good.

You want massage there?

You want everything?

Relax baby, I bring condom (leaves the door wide open as she walks out).

Me: Is Wendy working?

Lady: Yes she is available now. $45 pay me now. Wait in this room.

(20 minutes go by).

Me: if no one is going to come can you give my money back?

Lady: she come now. No problem.

(another 10 minutes of waiting. Then a chubby unattractive substitute girl comes in).

Me: what happened to Wendy?

Lady: she have other customer. I give you good massage. #1.

Lady: "You good body. You exercise a lot?

Me: "no not really. More of a couch potato. But thanks for the flattery".

Lady: "Oh you like Chinese lady?

Me: Naw not really. Any human between 18 and 40 with a vagina will pretty much do.

Lady: mmm oh baby, yes, yes, oh yeah".

Me: are you truly on the verge of an orgasm yourself just by stroking my johnson with some baby oil? I am starting to suspect this is something of an Oscar award winning performance.

Lady: You want water?

Me: I thought I paid for 1 hour, and exactly 32 minutes have gone by.

Lady: Oh I have another customer now. I make it up to you next time.

Me: How about making it up to me now by giving me a full hour?

[Taws6]

Ad: Grand Opening (It's been there for decades).

Nearly every other add.

Those types of adverts I normally skip over.

[Assaholic]

You been here befo?

Who do for you last time?

50+ worn-out granny: How long you want? (ad showed 20 something babe).

One ouwa sik-tee.

Lili go vacation. Coco do for you. She berry good.

You want massage there?

You want everything?

Relax baby, I bring condom (leaves the door wide open as she walks out).

You hansum man.

You come honey?

Ad: Grand Opening (It's been there for decades).

Her: Straightening out the bed sheet. The one you just exploded on. No wonder I felt a wet spot earlier.

You: Who's working today? Papasan: (Looking at his chart) Who?

Ad: BBFS She: Sorry I'm on period. You: Umm. . . Backdoor??

Ad: Location: 5 different cities, none of which is the actual city (yeah, that's really going to fool the LE).

Ay-yai-yai.

[DarkRoomDaddy]

I'm responding to DarkRoomDaddy's post 33232 on the Massage thread, and LngTimeMongr's 33226. The few times I've asked at the Chinese houses and apartments in the SGV they've said they're going to a place quite a ways east, like Chicago or someplace in Texas. A couple of times they said they didn't know, and it sounded like they really didn't, but who knows. And usually they say they've been in the USA Just a few weeks or months. I have the impression there's a team of PPSs and MMSs that moves them around. But I've yet to run into one of them who seemed miserable in this line of work. Some are really into it, others just doing a job to earn money. And there's the occasional gem who's really really into it, ahhh.

Lift Her Up.

It seems when the girls go to a new shop they have to deal with new rules of the road. So this suggests its not the same organization. Very few girls seem to invite me to come see them at their new shop which seems strange. If they were cutting hair or doing nails, you would think they would welcome an old customer in their new place. Its possible the new shop is legit, or maybe more wild so they have to manage expectations. And as you said, its possible they made a huge move out of state.

Its pretty amazing that these girls can just leave a job and find a new one hundreds of miles away. Given that they usually don't have a car, don't have a driver's license, don't speak English, often do not have proper immigration status. So they can't just find a new apartment and call the electric company. They are totally reliant on MMS / PPS for housing and essentials.

[Lift Her Up]

I'm responding to DarkRoomDaddy's post 33232 on the Massage thread, and LngTimeMongr's 33226. The few times I've asked at the Chinese houses and apartments in the SGV they've said they're going to a place quite a ways east, like Chicago or someplace in Texas. A couple of times they said they didn't know, and it sounded like they really didn't, but who knows. And usually they say they've been in the USA Just a few weeks or months. I have the impression there's a team of PPSs and MMSs that moves them around. But I've yet to run into one of them who seemed miserable in this line of work. Some are really into it, others just doing a job to earn money. And there's the occasional gem who's really really into it, ahhh.

Lift Her Up.

[HapaBoy86]

I remember the Getaway on Birch along with a couple of other FS MP with caucasian providers like Sherry and Christine who were once business partners until that went south, I used to see Sherry regularly and then off premises when she semi retired and unfortunately lost contact with her when she retired to Arizona, but she introduced me to the MP scene and I would save my tips I made bartending to go see her as she moved to different locations around JWA all owned by the same people. She was a friend and I tried to track her down but to no avail. She was my ATF.

I was a regular at all the AMPs on Birch, Campus, Quail St.

Man those we're the days banging white MILFs. Latina MILFs and of course Korean girls before they went viral!

[DarkRoomDaddy]

Night fun pages has the same ads as bedpage. They are legit ads. This should be in the rant and stupid shit section. You are off topic.

Yes they are mps. I don't see what's the difference. MPs / houses. If your cock gets sucked. I don't see an issue LOL.

A massage parlor is a shop in a retail location where you get a massage and maybe something extra. Your private apartment rendevous are no massage parlors. I am guessing they are essential private escorts or full on bordellos. And there seems to be a greater risk in a number of ways. Its like if there is a list dedicated to restaurants, and you guys keep posting about some home made tamales sold from the back of a pickup truck. Yeah they are both food but a pickup truck is not a restaurant. Now that you understand the different perhaps you and Al Capone can post in the appropriate forum. I suspect you guys are just advertising for those private places on the MP list to pull some business over there. A telltale sign is that you two attack anyone who questions WTF goes on with these dubious webpages which do not belong in the MP section. Why don't you just pay to advertise legitimately rather than this cheapo form of advertising.

[Justify]

I remember the Getaway on Birch along with a couple of other FS MP with caucasian providers like Sherry and Christine who were once business partners until that went south, I used to see Sherry regularly and then off premises when she semi retired and unfortunately lost contact with her when she retired to Arizona, but she introduced me to the MP scene and I would save my tips I made bartending to go see her as she moved to different locations around JWA all owned by the same people. She was a friend and I tried to track her down but to no avail. She was my ATF.

[DarkRoomDaddy]

I think you are that troll that's posting shit mps for a promotion via bedfun / nightpages because you are unwilling to write out the names of the MPs bc we already know the ones trolls promote. Real tragic we got to deal with trolls like you.

GMTA (great minds.).

[RBFSyndrome]

Night fun pages has the same ads as bedpage. They are legit ads. This should be in the rant and stupid shit section. You are off topic.

Yes they are mps. I don't see what's the difference. MPs / houses. If your cock gets sucked. I don't see an issue LOL.

I think you are that troll that's posting shit mps for a promotion via bedfun / nightpages because you are unwilling to write out the names of the MPs bc we already know the ones trolls promote. Real tragic we got to deal with trolls like you.