NoVA SugarBabies

[Mcsylv]

This is a lot to unpack. But I'll address a few points.

A 12 hour overnight is a lot and will definitely add to the ask, or willingness. Let the girl breathe bro. That might be one of the main issues you're facing.

I would never ask a sb to come over for free, if she offers, fine. Even if it's her suggestion, she's getting something for it of the deal.

If you are only going for the top 1%-10% of sb's you're going to pay the price and I can imagine most of us would face some of the same things. As in any hot commodity, you're going to get a decrease in performance / value at the top. If a 200 k tricked out g wagon doesn't light your fire, well. You're going to pay a lot more for that 1/250 Ferrari with a 2 year wait list and full payment up front.

Yes, most of these girls knowingly date losers. Not that there is anything wrong with that. If you're not slapping them on the ass on the way out the door, and telling them to tell your bf I said hello, you're doing it wrong. You might be coming off as jealous, where I try to come off as playful.

I guess the best advice I can give you is that if you have 1 k to throw down on a ppm, plus a 2-500 hotel, plus vacations, is that at 35 your money might be better spent on doing what you can to improve yourself.

A personal trainer, a healthy diet, maybe a therapist to work through some things.

If we're looking at a bell curve, and you're shooting all the way from one end towards the other, and I'm closer to the middle in both regards, yeah, I'm going to have more meaningful experiences.

I might sugar out of my league, but I'm not trying to hit a hole in one with a basketball either.

I'm not one who ignores unspoken racism or preferences and I'll freely admit to enjoying some of the benefits of being white that men outside of my race may see as a challenge, however there are things we can control and things we cannot.

As someone who was close to the same weight as you in my 20's, I can also tell you that my life experience has changed as I've skimmed down.

From an outside perspective, the amount of respect I get from people at 290 vs 200 is a world of difference and it shouldn't be a surprise even if it is a bit sad. On the other hand, people tend to associate being obese with a lack of self respect / control and people are naturally going to show more respect to those who respect themselves.

I ask for 12 h dates when the girl asks for 1000 ppm, not the other way around. My usual date is dinner and a few hours in a hotel room for 500, or less if I can negotiate it, but I'm rarely successful.

I've tried sleeping with women that aren't 8's and 9's. I'm just not attracted to them. Most of the time, the allowance that 7's ask for isn't even much different, still around 500 ppm, maybe 400. I have never gotten a single girl to agree to 300, so it's not like I'm saving a bunch of money by lowering my standards.

I'm at the point where if I couldn't afford to see 8's and above, I'd just stay home. Average chicks do nothing for me, sure they're fine as friends, but I don't get turned on by them. I also have an extremely hard time cumming, so it doesn't help when the girl is not smoking hot.

I don't get jealous, I couldn't care less about who else the girl is seeing. Sometimes when we're fucking, during dirty talk I ask them about the last guy they had inside them and when it was. Most girls get nervous because they figure it's a test I'm giving them and I'll flip out if they tell the truth, but I honestly get turned on hearing about other times they've enjoyed getting fucked. I've talked to girls about their BF's or dudes they're fucking, like a former SB from Richmond who fucked her 21 yo coworker at the bakery bareback even though she wasn't on BC.

You're not the first person to suggest getting in shape, and I'll say the same thing I've said to others: I work up really long hours frequently, 9 am until 7 PM, then 2 hours for dinner, then work until I go to bed at 12 or 1 am. I'm not about to put more stress on myself by adding working out to that. I hate exercising, it's very stressful for me and I don't get any sort of runner's high or whatever that other people talk about, or any improvement to my mood. It's just miserable.

I also have this mental thing where I hate my own cooking. I've had someone who knows how to cook stand next to the stove and tell me exactly what ingredients to add and when, and the end product that comes out is something I cannot eat, even though I know it's logically fine. It's something to do with seeing raw ingredients become a finished dish, it just ruins my appetite and makes it taste bad in my mouth.

So, with those things in mind, sure I could invest my money into overcoming those obstacles. Build a home gym. Hire a personal trainer to come over every day to train me. Hire a personal chef to deliver cooked food to me every other day that I just need to microwave. Hire a personal stylist and shopper to go out and buy outfits, design a wardrobe for me. All those put together and I'm probably at close to my SB budget, with no money left over for anything fun.

That will be my life for the next 2 years, working 12 hours a day and eating food from plastic containers, as well as doing pushups with some dude yelling motivational phrases at me. I should be around 180 for might height, so 120 pounds to lose. Then after I lose that weight, I have to go to a plastic surgeon to cut off the loose skin, heal up for another 6-8 months while not gaining any weight even though working out becomes harder.

After going through that hell, now the 9'sand 10's are going to be all over me, I'll be swimming in model pussy right? Wrong, now I'm just looking like an average dude who keeps fit. They're a dime a dozen at the gym, and none of them date Instagram models. I still have to become a multi millionaire at the minimum, as well as develop a social circle where I can have access to girls like that, and the free time to give them the experiences they date rich men for.

It's all so far away that it's not my concern now. I'm focused on building my business, and using money to get whatever I can in the sugar world. Once I'm over the hump I'm at now and have a bit more time, I can hit the weights.

EDIT: One other thing I wanted to comment on, have you sugared outside DC? As I said, I have had much more success finding girls I like in Vegas, even though I've only been there on a couple trips vs living in DC. The bell curve is different for different locations, and I think DC is just skewed unfavorably

[LouisHernandez]

I'm always afraid of the ones that are so forward, I just get the total scam or rob vibe from them. Personally, I'd stay away brother. Be safe!

+1 That. Especially if they called you "love". At the very least you are dealing with a seasoned pro which is never good.

[Member #6230]

I agree with this in principle, but will say that it hasn't worked for me in practice. Firstly, just to give context to my situation:

As mentioned before, 35, Asian, very overweight. 6 feet, 300 pounds. Only attracted to whites and white latinas, or other light-skinned and European appearance girls, so not AA, dark latinas, Asians, etc. Can afford to give high PPM up to 1 k, maybe even more, but would have to be for 12 h+ dates with BBFS at minimum, and only for very attractive girls. They also have to be good conversationalists and I can stand being with them even if my dick isn't inside them, because if we're together from 12 PM to 12 AM, most of the time I'm not going to be fucking them. I can't invite girls to my place, so I always get a hotel in the Tyson's or Bethesda area, or near where the girl lives. I hate driving long-distance, so I try to stay within the DC / Baltimore area, although I've driven to Easton, MD, and Harrisburg, PA for SB's before. I have confidence in my game due to how often girls tell me I'm easy to talk to, funny with a good vibe, get along well, etc. I don't think it's enough to overcome my body. I dress well enough, although more smart-casual than suave and sophisticated. I've had awful success in DC, and great success in Vegas by comparison. I've been on SA since Oct 2021, and I currently have 3 SB's in the DC area, and over the course of 3 Vegas trips since Dec 2022 to now, I have 15 in Vegas.

For my actual feedback, I have two things to comment on: how girls portray this online and respond to it, and how they interact in person.

On Reddit on are / sugarlifestyleforum, girls argue all the time about what the quoted poster said, they deserve men to pay for everything because they spend time getting ready. However, I've tried asking "so if I ask you to come barefaced with sweatpants on a vanilla date, then I don't have to pay?" and they usually start bitching and make up other BS. For the girls online, the payment is a given, they're just trying to justify it somehow. There is no situation in their mind where the man isn't paying, it's their right as women to be paid by men.

In real life, I've had multiple occasions where I ask the girl to just come over in sweats. 50% of the time, they will say no out of embarrassment. Granted, I haven't been this girls' SB for 7 months or anything, usually only 1-2 because I haven't had luck with long-term arrangements in the DC area. 100% of the time, it hasn't led to lower allowance requirements. I do negotiate, it has never worked for me. In fact, that's why my go-to negotiation tactic is not to ask for them to lower their allowance, but to ask for more time or more things sexually instead. Getting allowance lower than the initial PPM has never worked for me. Finally, I've had frequent cases where I'm short on time, I want a girl to come over now and spend a few hours, not take 90 minutes getting ready. I emphasize to them that I don't have much time because of work the next day, they can just come over and we can hang out casually, grab some Doordash or whatever. Most of the time, the dumb biaches still take forever to get ready because they just don't care or understand what men want.

I can't speak of girls remembering me 5 years later because I haven't been on SA for 5 years, much less had sugarbabies that long. But I can say that in the last year and 3 months, girls I've met and am attracted to don't want a Tuesday night sweatpants Netflix and chill date with lower allowance.

If you want complete detachment, get an escort. Sugarbabies can take as much time and energy to massage a relationship as vanilla dating, just with faster and more guaranteed access to sex. Also, vanilla FWB exist. I don't see why you think vanilla girls will always catch feelings and want more. Going by conventional logic, women around your attractiveness will always have more options than you for fucking and dating, it's much more likely the man gets jealous because she's the only pussy he can get, while she has many other dicks she could have.

If your vanilla FWB's always catch feelings, may I suggest going after more attractive and social women who won't get attached to you because you're likely not the best man in their pool?

Whenever I hear these stories, there's always some deep flaw with the guy her age. In this one, he's sexually selfish and doesn't care about her pleasure. It doesn't take skill to pleasure a woman, it takes desire to want to do so. From there, with good communication and being observant, it's not that hard. He just doesn't give a fuck.

Other times, the dude is a total loser with no ambition or desire to do anything. I was fucking this SB from Richmond who worked in a famous pie shop. She was fucking a 21 yo dude when she was past 25, but all he did was make pies and smoke weed. Wasn't doing anything else. Now granted, she also was a loser not going anywhere and always in money trouble but refused to think about budgeting, so they were made for each other. She also let him BBFS even though he's not sterile and she's not on BC, he just pulled out. I am sterile so my creampies are fine, but that girl is stupid and playing with fire.

Then there's times where the dude is abusive or a fuckboy. Doesn't give a shit about her, cheats on her all the time, maybe yells at or beats her, but she's with him for some reason.

Point is, I've never heard of a time where a girl is dating a man her age that is doing very well financially, good in bed, emotionally available, etc and is still fucking old men for fun and a little pocket money on the side.

It's almost pointless to talk about cases where SD's have had SB's catch feelings, imagine if I came here and talked about how this girl started as my SB but dropped the PPM requirement and started riding my dick for free and catching feelings. But she dated this dude who got both his legs and his dick blown off in Iraq. Like yes, he's her age, but there's an obvious reason why she's still fucking me, and it's not because she's getting her needs met but just really wanted my little Asian kungpao because it's sooooooo good and I'm sooo smart and mature.

They're not dating us because we're good, they're dating us because their boys are bad LOL. Either that or they're not that attractive, which given the SB's posted here, is more than a few LOL.

Again, I've only been on SA for a little over a year, and haven't had great luck in DC, but none of my SB's have ever cared about bettering me. They also don't keep chatting even after I stop seeing them. I have one SB from Charlottesville that I don't really see except every couple months now, but when she's gone we don't keep up in each others' lives. So far all my SB's have either ghosted, or parted on bad terms.

One latina in Tysons is extremely beautiful, but required 800 PPM. I tried to get BBFS, she refused at first but kept hinting she could get more comfortable. Finally she said let's both get tested, so I figured we were good to go. I took her to the clinic, we both got our tests. Next week when the results were out, she was positive for oral herpes, and I was totally clean. Oral herpes is common, plus we were doing bare oral anyway the whole time, so when I met up with her again I assumed no condom was needed and I was going in her raw.

We get going, I eat her out until she cums, then she gets me hard with her mouth, I lay her on her back and position myself at her entrance when she asks me to put on the condom. At first I thought she was joking, but she was serious. I told her we both got tested, I thought that's not needed, but she said she still wasn't' comfortable. I told her it had gone on long enough, I can't cum with a condom and she knows this, we got tested for a reason. She still refused, so I put on my clothes, gave her the PPM, then dropped her off at her apartment and told her good luck. She was stunned at first that I didn't want to fuck her as I got dressed. Finally when I dropped her off, she sadly said "you too" when I wished her good luck, and got out of my car. Haven't heard from her since.

That was the last SB I had that lasted longer than a month. Every week we met for 800 PPM, and I took her out to nice restaurants, helped her work through her assignments in school, etc.

Had another SB who got along really great with me. I took her on our 3rd date to a night at MGM to celebrate her college graduation. She's open to BBFS and the sex was good, but during that 3rd date I found out she doesn't like having sex for long, at least with me. 15-20 min and she's done, doesn't want to take a break and go again, even though I haven't cum. Not sure if she genuinely doesn't like sex like that, or just doesn't like sex with me. We were both unavailable with the holidays after that date, but a few weeks later she tells me she had a health issue come up that means she has to leave town for a month, and won't be able to continue the relationship when she gets back. No idea what happened, but another great SB gone.

This is a lot to unpack. But I'll address a few points.

A 12 hour overnight is a lot and will definitely add to the ask, or willingness. Let the girl breathe bro. That might be one of the main issues you're facing.

I would never ask a sb to come over for free, if she offers, fine. Even if it's her suggestion, she's getting something for it of the deal.

If you are only going for the top 1%-10% of sb's you're going to pay the price and I can imagine most of us would face some of the same things. As in any hot commodity, you're going to get a decrease in performance / value at the top. If a 200 k tricked out g wagon doesn't light your fire, well. You're going to pay a lot more for that 1/250 Ferrari with a 2 year wait list and full payment up front.

Yes, most of these girls knowingly date losers. Not that there is anything wrong with that. If you're not slapping them on the ass on the way out the door, and telling them to tell your bf I said hello, you're doing it wrong. You might be coming off as jealous, where I try to come off as playful.

I guess the best advice I can give you is that if you have 1 k to throw down on a ppm, plus a 2-500 hotel, plus vacations, is that at 35 your money might be better spent on doing what you can to improve yourself.

A personal trainer, a healthy diet, maybe a therapist to work through some things.

If we're looking at a bell curve, and you're shooting all the way from one end towards the other, and I'm closer to the middle in both regards, yeah, I'm going to have more meaningful experiences.

I might sugar out of my league, but I'm not trying to hit a hole in one with a basketball either.

I'm not one who ignores unspoken racism or preferences and I'll freely admit to enjoying some of the benefits of being white that men outside of my race may see as a challenge, however there are things we can control and things we cannot.

As someone who was close to the same weight as you in my 20's, I can also tell you that my life experience has changed as I've skimmed down.

From an outside perspective, the amount of respect I get from people at 290 vs 200 is a world of difference and it shouldn't be a surprise even if it is a bit sad. On the other hand, people tend to associate being obese with a lack of self respect / control and people are naturally going to show more respect to those who respect themselves.

[TomFordModel]

I agree that being attractive gets you benefits in sugar. I mentioned that several posts ago in this thread.

I don't treat SB's like escorts. Hell even escorts, I take them on dinner dates when we're spending a longer time together, even though they charge hourly. I also try to support my SB's emotionally, mentor them about their lives and careers, give them experiences they've always wanted, etc.

None of that has made a difference. I literally met an SB in SC whom I helped through legal issues and severe money problems. Hooked her up with my lawyers for legal guidance, had video calls with her where she sobbed and I consoled her for hours, etc. She ghosted me a few weeks after I took her on a Miami vacation she'd always wanted to go on, but never had a chance to. 10 months later, I see on her IG that she's in the Bahamas with a guy her age.

Dude, sounds like you want love. This SB shit won't work. It will ultimately end in a heartbreak.

Trust me. I've been there. Caught feels and shit went bad.

[Member #7176]

I had a long time SB (23) who moved away, but I would cover hotel cost for her to visit DC area 3-4 times a year. I was seeing her off and on for 3 years. I was 1 of 2 guys who got her pregnant and I cover half the cost of the abortion. I also help give her advance on her ppm for her apt. She used me as a work reference. I told her that at anytime she wanted to end it I was ok with it just don't ghost me. She completely ghost me recently. Last msg with her was about setting up her next visit DC. I wouldn't stress out about these girls. I just jump back on SA and replace her with an 18 years old.

I agree that being attractive gets you benefits in sugar. I mentioned that several posts ago in this thread.

I don't treat SB's like escorts. Hell even escorts, I take them on dinner dates when we're spending a longer time together, even though they charge hourly. I also try to support my SB's emotionally, mentor them about their lives and careers, give them experiences they've always wanted, etc.

None of that has made a difference. I literally met an SB in SC whom I helped through legal issues and severe money problems. Hooked her up with my lawyers for legal guidance, had video calls with her where she sobbed and I consoled her for hours, etc. She ghosted me a few weeks after I took her on a Miami vacation she'd always wanted to go on, but never had a chance to. 10 months later, I see on her IG that she's in the Bahamas with a guy her age.

[Mcsylv]

As others have shared, my experience doesn't match yours at all. It absolutely helps to be not unattractive and in shape. I am 53, and I am still in touch with several previous SBs. Even ones that ended it with me. You get out what you put in. If you give escorting energy that's what you will attract in my opinion. I lay down the narrative from the very beginning that we will have a intimate relationship based in friendship and respect. These chicks then start spilling the beans on how most of the SDs are not at all like that. Simply being a decent human being (albeit one with a strong antenna for game running) and treating them as ladies pays dividends others have described. Does it happen every time? No. Even still you have a nice time and move on until you find one who gives you more than you give her.

I agree that being attractive gets you benefits in sugar. I mentioned that several posts ago in this thread.

I don't treat SB's like escorts. Hell even escorts, I take them on dinner dates when we're spending a longer time together, even though they charge hourly. I also try to support my SB's emotionally, mentor them about their lives and careers, give them experiences they've always wanted, etc.

None of that has made a difference. I literally met an SB in SC whom I helped through legal issues and severe money problems. Hooked her up with my lawyers for legal guidance, had video calls with her where she sobbed and I consoled her for hours, etc. She ghosted me a few weeks after I took her on a Miami vacation she'd always wanted to go on, but never had a chance to. 10 months later, I see on her IG that she's in the Bahamas with a guy her age.

[Mandane]

Again, I've only been on SA for a little over a year, and haven't had great luck in DC, but none of my SB's have ever cared about bettering me. They also don't keep chatting even after I stop seeing them. I have one SB from Charlottesville that I don't really see except every couple months now, but when she's gone we don't keep up in each others' lives. So far all my SB's have either ghosted, or parted on bad terms.

As others have shared, my experience doesn't match yours at all. It absolutely helps to be not unattractive and in shape. I am 53, and I am still in touch with several previous SBs. Even ones that ended it with me. You get out what you put in. If you give escorting energy that's what you will attract in my opinion. I lay down the narrative from the very beginning that we will have a intimate relationship based in friendship and respect. These chicks then start spilling the beans on how most of the SDs are not at all like that. Simply being a decent human being (albeit one with a strong antenna for game running) and treating them as ladies pays dividends others have described. Does it happen every time? No. Even still you have a nice time and move on until you find one who gives you more than you give her.

[Mcsylv]

I'll give this a shot, but realize there will be as many opinions as there are mongers.

First, you have to be honest with your budget, and that honesty might piss her off. 350 2 x a month isn't much to work with and probably doesn't put you that far above someone she could just vanilla date.

Second, you need to determine if she is pushing for more dates because she likes you or is trying to maximize how much she can get from you. Seeing someone you're fucking at minimum once once a week is pretty normal, and most young women will want sex more often than that.

But there are some things you can do that will help her see you in more favorable terms.

Suggest dates where she doesn't have to get dressed up. If you spend any time reading "sugar baby gossip groups" which are the opposite of what we do here, you're going to hear them complaining about how much time it takes to get ready, how much it costs to get their hair and nails done, how much the outfits cost and they feel justified in getting paid to meet your (all sd's) standards. They include the time it takes to get ready in the ppm in the simplest of terms.

Basically what you're going for here is a "relationship type" Netflix and chill. Ask her to come over in her sweatpants, hoodie, no makeup, because you just want to spend time together. I used to call this the "Tuesday special" she gets some money, an easy night without the pressure of the dog and pony show, we both get laid at a lower ppm. If you present this right, it will make sense to her. You can even point out how you want her to be able to spend time with her friends on Friday and Saturday. In her head, she may translate this to a higher paying opportunity with someone willing to pay more than you and you really have to be okay with that.

Personally, I could see asking a premium for weekend time if I were able to sell this beautiful dad bod to the highest budder.

The next thing you're going to want to do is get inside her mind as often as you get in between her legs. That means paying attention to what she cares about, remembering the things that are important to her, remembering her birthday, and figuring out how to make occasions out of things you don't actually give a shit about.

In 5 years when she looks at her boyfriend, and tells him you aren't shit. Right before she says this, you want her to think of you. So do the things that are going to stand out in her mind as someone she would be proud to tell her mother about if you weren't 25 years older than her.

If you really want to put the "does she like me or is she milking me (and fucking you the way you want) Buy her something small that will be more sentimental or practical than a pair of shoes.

Figure out what kind of snacks she likes. What kind of books she is into. Is she "an aspiring ceo" of her one man nail business? Girls like planners, motivational coffee mugs, vision boards, astrology, aura's, pyschic readings, all the shit you and I know is pointless.

I bought my last sugar baby a poetry book I knew she would like and guess what? She read that whole book to me over face time in the course of a couple days. That's a girl that likes you.

It's human nature to be reciprocal after receiving a gift. She might not be able to buy you something, but she knows what you like 🤣 if you don't see her reciprocating kind gestures, she doesn't value them or you any more than the money and the "let's spend more time together is just an act.

Personally, if that was my budget, I would probably stick to ppm and one night stands. That way neither of you get attached and you aren't living above your means to keep a girlfriend you can't afford.

The money is just an introduction, but it can also be used as a tool to keep proper boundaries. You're paying her, and treating her like an employee is part of the deal. Sometimes you have to shake their hand and wish them the best in their next job.

If you could get her to agree to $200 once a week, with 2 of those on days that are easy for her, that would be a solid sb/sd relationship especially if youre ok with her seeing other people on the nights she isnt with you. She can at least justify that as extra money with the opportunity to make more.

Thats my .02

I agree with this in principle, but will say that it hasn't worked for me in practice. Firstly, just to give context to my situation:

As mentioned before, 35, Asian, very overweight. 6 feet, 300 pounds. Only attracted to whites and white latinas, or other light-skinned and European appearance girls, so not AA, dark latinas, Asians, etc. Can afford to give high PPM up to 1 k, maybe even more, but would have to be for 12 h+ dates with BBFS at minimum, and only for very attractive girls. They also have to be good conversationalists and I can stand being with them even if my dick isn't inside them, because if we're together from 12 PM to 12 AM, most of the time I'm not going to be fucking them. I can't invite girls to my place, so I always get a hotel in the Tyson's or Bethesda area, or near where the girl lives. I hate driving long-distance, so I try to stay within the DC / Baltimore area, although I've driven to Easton, MD, and Harrisburg, PA for SB's before. I have confidence in my game due to how often girls tell me I'm easy to talk to, funny with a good vibe, get along well, etc. I don't think it's enough to overcome my body. I dress well enough, although more smart-casual than suave and sophisticated. I've had awful success in DC, and great success in Vegas by comparison. I've been on SA since Oct 2021, and I currently have 3 SB's in the DC area, and over the course of 3 Vegas trips since Dec 2022 to now, I have 15 in Vegas.

For my actual feedback, I have two things to comment on: how girls portray this online and respond to it, and how they interact in person.

On Reddit on are / sugarlifestyleforum, girls argue all the time about what the quoted poster said, they deserve men to pay for everything because they spend time getting ready. However, I've tried asking "so if I ask you to come barefaced with sweatpants on a vanilla date, then I don't have to pay?" and they usually start bitching and make up other BS. For the girls online, the payment is a given, they're just trying to justify it somehow. There is no situation in their mind where the man isn't paying, it's their right as women to be paid by men.

In real life, I've had multiple occasions where I ask the girl to just come over in sweats. 50% of the time, they will say no out of embarrassment. Granted, I haven't been this girls' SB for 7 months or anything, usually only 1-2 because I haven't had luck with long-term arrangements in the DC area. 100% of the time, it hasn't led to lower allowance requirements. I do negotiate, it has never worked for me. In fact, that's why my go-to negotiation tactic is not to ask for them to lower their allowance, but to ask for more time or more things sexually instead. Getting allowance lower than the initial PPM has never worked for me. Finally, I've had frequent cases where I'm short on time, I want a girl to come over now and spend a few hours, not take 90 minutes getting ready. I emphasize to them that I don't have much time because of work the next day, they can just come over and we can hang out casually, grab some Doordash or whatever. Most of the time, the dumb biaches still take forever to get ready because they just don't care or understand what men want.

I can't speak of girls remembering me 5 years later because I haven't been on SA for 5 years, much less had sugarbabies that long. But I can say that in the last year and 3 months, girls I've met and am attracted to don't want a Tuesday night sweatpants Netflix and chill date with lower allowance.

Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it and it has opened my eyes to this SD / SB world. I had no idea that the usual relationship would require meetings so often. I am too busy (family, work, hobbies, etc) to meet more than once every other week, so it's not even an option. I am going to stick to PPM and even if they want to repeat, I will just keep sticking to that. I don't care if they see other people, it's fwb nsa type of deal anyways. I am on the younger side and could vanilla date, however, without the monetary barrier, they would get attached and things get messy (been there). The main reason to why I am trying this out is to casually date real people but still keep a barrier from getting attached.

If you want complete detachment, get an escort. Sugarbabies can take as much time and energy to massage a relationship as vanilla dating, just with faster and more guaranteed access to sex. Also, vanilla FWB exist. I don't see why you think vanilla girls will always catch feelings and want more. Going by conventional logic, women around your attractiveness will always have more options than you for fucking and dating, it's much more likely the man gets jealous because she's the only pussy he can get, while she has many other dicks she could have.

If your vanilla FWB's always catch feelings, may I suggest going after more attractive and social women who won't get attached to you because you're likely not the best man in their pool?

I've said before, the opportunity to date some of these girls without PPM is more prevalent than people might assume. I'm no spring chicken or bottle service baller, but also on the younger side as SD standards go, and I can usually string together a coherent sentence or two. I've had ample opportunity to turn a sugar relationship into something more conventional. That said, as soon as there isn't a PPM involved, now you lose your autonomy and they start thinking they're your GF and expecting certain things.

I know from experience, sadly. She was actually a great girl but as you would expect, much younger. Sex was incredible and she was one of the coolest girls I've met. She finally moved on, and got a serious BF from hinge or some shit. I continued to bang her for a good part of her being with this guy, he was her age and according to her she really liked him, he was nice, age appropriate, etc. But he didn't eat her pussy and he was basically a two pumps and a pullback kind of guy so she never got hers. She's now engaged to the guy, and we no longer see each other. To be honest, I sort of kick myself over that one because it's the one time I actually caught feelings as well, but never actually let on to her that I did and she got tired of it.

Moral of the story, it's much easier / safer to keep the PPM in place and a clear line drawn so as not to muddy the waters and risk any hurt feelings for either party.

Whenever I hear these stories, there's always some deep flaw with the guy her age. In this one, he's sexually selfish and doesn't care about her pleasure. It doesn't take skill to pleasure a woman, it takes desire to want to do so. From there, with good communication and being observant, it's not that hard. He just doesn't give a fuck.

Other times, the dude is a total loser with no ambition or desire to do anything. I was fucking this SB from Richmond who worked in a famous pie shop. She was fucking a 21 yo dude when she was past 25, but all he did was make pies and smoke weed. Wasn't doing anything else. Now granted, she also was a loser not going anywhere and always in money trouble but refused to think about budgeting, so they were made for each other. She also let him BBFS even though he's not sterile and she's not on BC, he just pulled out. I am sterile so my creampies are fine, but that girl is stupid and playing with fire.

Then there's times where the dude is abusive or a fuckboy. Doesn't give a shit about her, cheats on her all the time, maybe yells at or beats her, but she's with him for some reason.

Point is, I've never heard of a time where a girl is dating a man her age that is doing very well financially, good in bed, emotionally available, etc and is still fucking old men for fun and a little pocket money on the side.

It's almost pointless to talk about cases where SD's have had SB's catch feelings, imagine if I came here and talked about how this girl started as my SB but dropped the PPM requirement and started riding my dick for free and catching feelings. But she dated this dude who got both his legs and his dick blown off in Iraq. Like yes, he's her age, but there's an obvious reason why she's still fucking me, and it's not because she's getting her needs met but just really wanted my little Asian kungpao because it's sooooooo good and I'm sooo smart and mature.

They're not dating us because we're good, they're dating us because their boys are bad LOL. Either that or they're not that attractive, which given the SB's posted here, is more than a few LOL.

Agreed. When things finally end, you want it to be on good terms. You want them to remember you fondly, not as some guy they wasted their time with. I've never been good at traditional relationships, and years ago realized that each time one ended it was replaced with something better (or at least newer which makes it fun) anyway.

Sugar relationships allow us to move on and remain Allie's, keepers of secrets, and good experiences.

As much as they wear a facade when we meet, and only show us their best, we are also doing the same. After a period of time when the masks finally come off, and what we are left with is our true imperfect selves, it becomes more work than fun. Sugaring allows us to -not answer phone calls and texts, respond to every little thing they deem an emergency, not care how she handles her finances, not care who about infidelity, etc.

The basis of sugaring is mutually beneficial. That means we give them something they are not able to achieve on their own, and we get something that is traditionally unavailable to us without extreme good looks, luck, and the ability to step out of normal social conventions by approaching someone 20 years younger than us in public. We meet in an appropriate place online, we are able to lay out boundaries before we meet, and as the more mature experienced person, it's up to us to maintain those boundaries.

Here are some things that help set those boundaries as well.

"Make sure you invite me to your wedding when you find that guy".

" Can we go shopping together? Help me pick out an outfit so that women will find me more attractive when you move on (with a laugh).

Sugaring helped me get comfortable with beautiful women, with the amount of effort I wanted to put in it. It's helped me to avoid bad relationships, it's helped raise my standards for traditional dating, and opened my eyes to things I wouldn't discover on my own.

The money, the gifts, the extra attention to detail, is payment for services rendered. I always get more out of a good sugar relationship than I give, and she will tell me the same.

They like us for our experiences, don't be afraid to tell them how the "new you" has attracted new fish. It gives them one more reason to do this. (People love to feel good about how they improved someone else's life).

Again, I've only been on SA for a little over a year, and haven't had great luck in DC, but none of my SB's have ever cared about bettering me. They also don't keep chatting even after I stop seeing them. I have one SB from Charlottesville that I don't really see except every couple months now, but when she's gone we don't keep up in each others' lives. So far all my SB's have either ghosted, or parted on bad terms.

One latina in Tysons is extremely beautiful, but required 800 PPM. I tried to get BBFS, she refused at first but kept hinting she could get more comfortable. Finally she said let's both get tested, so I figured we were good to go. I took her to the clinic, we both got our tests. Next week when the results were out, she was positive for oral herpes, and I was totally clean. Oral herpes is common, plus we were doing bare oral anyway the whole time, so when I met up with her again I assumed no condom was needed and I was going in her raw.

We get going, I eat her out until she cums, then she gets me hard with her mouth, I lay her on her back and position myself at her entrance when she asks me to put on the condom. At first I thought she was joking, but she was serious. I told her we both got tested, I thought that's not needed, but she said she still wasn't' comfortable. I told her it had gone on long enough, I can't cum with a condom and she knows this, we got tested for a reason. She still refused, so I put on my clothes, gave her the PPM, then dropped her off at her apartment and told her good luck. She was stunned at first that I didn't want to fuck her as I got dressed. Finally when I dropped her off, she sadly said "you too" when I wished her good luck, and got out of my car. Haven't heard from her since.

That was the last SB I had that lasted longer than a month. Every week we met for 800 PPM, and I took her out to nice restaurants, helped her work through her assignments in school, etc.

Had another SB who got along really great with me. I took her on our 3rd date to a night at MGM to celebrate her college graduation. She's open to BBFS and the sex was good, but during that 3rd date I found out she doesn't like having sex for long, at least with me. 15-20 min and she's done, doesn't want to take a break and go again, even though I haven't cum. Not sure if she genuinely doesn't like sex like that, or just doesn't like sex with me. We were both unavailable with the holidays after that date, but a few weeks later she tells me she had a health issue come up that means she has to leave town for a month, and won't be able to continue the relationship when she gets back. No idea what happened, but another great SB gone.

[Rudy Wellz]

Fuck it bro, If you're feeling it then go for it.

I'm always afraid of the ones that are so forward, I just get the total scam or rob vibe from them. Personally, I'd stay away brother. Be safe!

Texted her this AM to let her know that I would be available in the evening. Never heard back. Probably dodged a bullet.

[Btt123]

Any intel on CuteBabe?

https://members.seeking.com/member/c...b-6d664f7dd660

[Sesadmv]

Any insight anyone can share? Any luck with her?

https://members.seeking.com/member/a...e-bafed820f3d5

[Member #7024]

Met with her early last year, nurse with a few extra LBS than she shows in her photos. Found her on socials, she had a b / f then and I believe is / was engaged to him and living with him. She's a bit spontaneous, goes radio silent and then hits you up if you can meet in an hour. She was a bit drunk when she arrived and a LOT of fun. Lmk if anyone else had experiences w her, I am considering repeating.

https://members.seeking.com/member/d...7-f45c1c36a0d2

She is in Leesburg these days and has a bf / fiance. Hits me with little notice. I told that I have a life and can't drop everything suddenly for her.

Otherwise pleasant and beautiful / sexy in person.

[JonFisher]

WTF. You were hitting that? Girls is 29! Looks 40. That fairly sums up SA. Pros, druggie, etc. The hot ones ate fake.

Tom: you missed the whole point of the post. Even though I know you don't have high opinion of others on here, you really thought I would be "hitting that" Tom?

[FogHorn1]

This young lady hit me up yesterday with the usual, "Hi, may I see you pictures". I always respond, sure. But show me yours first". She reveals her private pictures and we exchange a few messages. She calls me 'love', 'lovee', 'daddy' and sends some really explicit pictures. Want's to know if I'm available later in the evening and accepts a low PPM. This is not my type as she gives major pro vibes. Also not into heavily tattooed women. But sometimes, you just want to have a good time. What would you do?

https://members.seeking.com/member/d...7-cf25f9bf5953

I'm always afraid of the ones that are so forward, I just get the total scam or rob vibe from them. Personally, I'd stay away brother. Be safe!

[Dimples572]

This young lady hit me up yesterday with the usual, "Hi, may I see you pictures". I always respond, sure. But show me yours first". She reveals her private pictures and we exchange a few messages. She calls me 'love', 'lovee', 'daddy' and sends some really explicit pictures. Want's to know if I'm available later in the evening and accepts a low PPM. This is not my type as she gives major pro vibes. Also not into heavily tattooed women. But sometimes, you just want to have a good time. What would you do?

https://members.seeking.com/member/d...7-cf25f9bf5953

Fuck it bro, If you're feeling it then go for it.