Grand Rapids Pugilistic Society

[DjBiker]

So, I think we have a monger on here logging in under multiple new accounts trying to unfairly blacklist a provider. Looking at the posts, all "new" people, I think that David000, Shawnbo, and DevinKing are all the same guy, all new people, with all their posts all ratting out the same provider with the same ad, and even playing off each other with the old "yeah, she dissed me too, bro" scheme. Some of the posts from different brand new guys are within minutes of each other complaining about the same chick. https://grand-rapids.skipthegames.co...y/477511917140.

Riiiiiight.

Anyway, if the Admin sees this, maybe he can do a little IP searching and see if it's the same guy writing multiple bad reviews. I've not seen her before myself, but hope others can chime in if they had a similar experience as the (fake) three amigos, here.

I've seen this happen before on other sites, and usually the monger was an asshole and the real story is way different than the one "they" are trying to portray, trying to ruin a chick's business in retaliation. And even if he did have a true bad experience... doing this, if he did do this, just makes him the one crying wolf and now no one can believe him.

Anyway, be safe out there.

Says and asshole himself good wprk colombo.

[HornyFlyer]

So, I think we have a monger on here logging in under multiple new accounts trying to unfairly blacklist a provider. Looking at the posts, all "new" people, I think that David000, Shawnbo, and DevinKing are all the same guy, all new people, with all their posts all ratting out the same provider with the same ad, and even playing off each other with the old "yeah, she dissed me too, bro" scheme. Some of the posts from different brand new guys are within minutes of each other complaining about the same chick. https://grand-rapids.skipthegames.co...y/477511917140.

Riiiiiight.

Anyway, if the Admin sees this, maybe he can do a little IP searching and see if it's the same guy writing multiple bad reviews. I've not seen her before myself, but hope others can chime in if they had a similar experience as the (fake) three amigos, here.

I've seen this happen before on other sites, and usually the monger was an asshole and the real story is way different than the one "they" are trying to portray, trying to ruin a chick's business in retaliation. And even if he did have a true bad experience... doing this, if he did do this, just makes him the one crying wolf and now no one can believe him.

Anyway, be safe out there.

[NoseJelly]

Call me all you want but to use a handicap phase is just a reference of your ignorance I'm sure parents of special needs are impressed as well get the f' out of your hole and get in the world dum fuk, glad to see your fat ass ole lady got you your nuggets tho.

Moralizing on a Mongering site. Pathetic! I've told you several times now. I kicked your Mom to the curb! The fat ass ole lady is gone because I got tired of her calling out your name when I was pounding her fat ass! "Harder DJ Harder!" "Make Mommy Cum DJ!" GTFOH!

[NoseJelly]

They can't help themselves!

[DjBiker]

The Circle Jerking Karens of Mongering. Keep up the good fight Ladies!

Call me all you want but to use a handicap phase is just a reference of your ignorance I'm sure parents of special needs are impressed as well get the f' out of your hole and get in the world dum fuk, glad to see your fat ass ole lady got you your nuggets tho.

[Benz1]

The Circle Jerking Karens of Mongering. Keep up the good fight Ladies!

I was getting bored

The entertainment page continues as the Cyber Ninja Circle Jerkers keep jerking each other off. LOL.

[NoseJelly]

The Circle Jerking Karens of Mongering. Keep up the good fight Ladies!

[DjBiker]

I'm surprised you don't recognize the difference between what many would call a true UTR, and the "fake UTR" that a true handler markets. IMO there is an UTR that a guy occasionally runs across and she express' interest in seeing a few more guys known to him. That's cool with most here I would think. In contrast there is the "fake UTR" that Benz brings to the board from whatever bottom-of-the-barrrel he was trolling to find down on their luck ladies he could take advantage of, then endlessly promote these former street walkers, druggies and / or alcoholics as if they are UTR's, complete with pictures and stg advertisements for their services. Huge difference imo between what the predator does and the guy who occasionally brings a true UTR to his small circle of "friends".

If Benz were to open a massage parlor and market the girls like the other places do, that would be fine imo. I'm not sure how many customers would pay to see the streetwalkers and other bottom feeders though, maybe they could run out of the parlor for a minute and do a $30 blow job in the planet fitness parking lot. That one streetwalker he brought to Serenity didn't do so well did she?

Basically what I said but you will get no answer from him, just them pathetic horney fuk stick, gene 2 inch dik, and when that pathetic nose fuks ole lady goes to Burger King he can log on other wise crickets.

Like I told shit for brains STFU.

[JMaul]

The back of their heads all look the same?

That's all you need to read to know the trash that a super senior member of this board is bringing to the table.

He says good BJ. Another says worst ever and she smells. I'm sure Benz is paying her her going rate for the subpar service too.

Maybe Benz should put his escort posts in the streetwalker section, although the ladies reviewed there may not want to be in the same group as them lmfao. Or maybe she was a fresh pickup from rehab.

Sorry but there's plenty of people, myself included, that aren't interested in funding your free car BJs to suffer through our own appointments. I hope the Fuckhead Enjoying Nasty puZzay or FRENZ as you call them hasn't gone down in membership otherwise you might get stuck paying like a normal client. Except on Tuesday afternoons because every decent lady works for half price then right? Right?

What a joke. Maybe some of Hayley's coffee can keep you warm this winter.

[Tommey]

Appreciate all the good feedback.

One part that some respondents seem to miss is that massage is different than other aspects of this whole business. And that is a good thing. Most shops, and therapists, do not want to do escorting or unlimited encounters. Hence why they are where they are. Money does not matter, you're not getting it no matter how much you throw around. On the other hand, if you are a decent client, and you become a regular, you don't need to throw money around. (it's a beautiful thing, and lots of fun when that happens).

Sure, some are into more play, that is a thing, but it is not the rule. The gals and shops who become notorious start getting unwanted attention, from unseemly customers, as well as LEO. This is where the prices become silly, a couple shops (on 44th and another on Plainfield) realized they don't want to fuck all day long, so they started asking princely sums to cut the volume. This is also where the chicken-shit disturbing the peace charges come. But it is not the johns who are targeted (as they are in escorting and street walking). Most of the massage biz is very consensual, and there just is no pay for play, it's simple tips out of gratitude for a pleasant visit. So nothing for LEO to see or care about. When you see stories in the news, it is because there was trafficing and abuse, people working in conditions beyond their will. That happens in some parts of all of this biz, and is not unique to massage. Sadly, it does seem to be more common in escorting.

PP, as to your specific question, which would be better hypothetically, seeing woman you know and enjoy for fun at a private place or at a parlor? I'd say, it doesn't matter. Generally speaking, if you can have that visit at a parlor, it will be cheaper. The overhead at a parlor is less than covering a hotel room spread across a handful of appointments. Otherwise, it's the same deal, IMHO.

Another aspect that always seems to percolate out when this topic arises is an odd distaste for the notion that there is fun happening at a massage parlor. Almost a weird aversion to the very idea that that could be happening. I'd like to know where those notions come from. I mean, hey, if it's not for you, it's not for you. But that doesn't mean it isn't great for many many others. There are clearly benefits to the escort scene, and a LOT of risk. And there are definitely benefits to the massage scene, just don't expect it to be a brothel, it ain't. But why the hell would you pick a side?

I don't have a dog in this fight, and I'm not on any team. But it seems a few people clearly do have a "team" and a soap box to stand upon. I'd like to simply ask, why?

[Blackfire]

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of those who claim a guy who screens members based on their behavior on USA before handing out a UTR number is a handler while a parlor is not. Case in point:

As do I with your remark about Benz. The point is neither of us can claim one is in some way a handler but not the other (myself included since I've done the same thing as Benz but without your scorn). The fact remains a parlor employs prostitutes (knowingly), advertises them in sexy lingerie and obvious innuendo on escort sites, provides a level of security for them, then charges you a fee to see them for what we all know will lead to sex act. What would you like to call the parlor's culpability in that? We all want that to be legal, but the only opinion that carries any weight is our legal system which frequently calls it a prostitution ring and sex trafficking and will crack down on it at anytime:

I'm surprised you don't recognize the difference between what many would call a true UTR, and the "fake UTR" that a true handler markets. IMO there is an UTR that a guy occasionally runs across and she express' interest in seeing a few more guys known to him. That's cool with most here I would think. In contrast there is the "fake UTR" that Benz brings to the board from whatever bottom-of-the-barrrel he was trolling to find down on their luck ladies he could take advantage of, then endlessly promote these former street walkers, druggies and / or alcoholics as if they are UTR's, complete with pictures and stg advertisements for their services. Huge difference imo between what the predator does and the guy who occasionally brings a true UTR to his small circle of "friends".

If Benz were to open a massage parlor and market the girls like the other places do, that would be fine imo. I'm not sure how many customers would pay to see the streetwalkers and other bottom feeders though, maybe they could run out of the parlor for a minute and do a $30 blow job in the planet fitness parking lot. That one streetwalker he brought to Serenity didn't do so well did she?

[PrivateParts]

Appreciate all the good feedback. I wonder if I'd get a different take if I asked why a MP is better than an independent woman offering the same thing at home / hotel / outcall? No one specifically addressed that part, though I can infer some. Responses drifted towards comparing MP vs Escort which is only 1 aspect of my question. It's really why the MP? In all other industries disintermediation, or cutting out middleman, lowers consumer price (hello Amazon). Removing the "middleMadam" from the equation you'd think would do the same and also increase the providers profits. We've seen this with independent escorts (hello Caribbean Jasmine & countless others) yet it doesn't appear to translate to the Massage hobby. Why?

I also noticed nobody brought up Nuru or bodyslides as a unique MP experience you can't get elsewhere. Is that just not prevalent in GR? Anyway, thanks for the responses. To keep things lively I'll respond to a few interesting comments:

Kind of a strange rant from someone who has never experienced it directly.

Self admittedly, yes. For the record I have and will see woman who advertise massages w / no FS, just never at a MP. More on that later. Part of me asking is that I always felt we were missing a guide to MPs in the newbie section so think of this as my research into "why" MPs. Maybe we'll do "how to" next.

You are never beaten, robbed, threatened, or scammed.

I have never had a problems at AMP's such as ripoff or pimps, and most of the AMP girls do not seem to be jonesing for their next bit of candy.
Admittedly, I am less worried about discretion since I am single.

"Personal Safety" is the main point I expected to hear. Both from a client & provider perspective as opposed to what's behind us at a random hotel door. That's my take away. Personally I NEVER go to a shady house, neighborhood or no-tell motel for the same reasons. But a MP provides another level of protection. Also I understand Sly's discretion point but I'd be interested in more married man's perspective. Especially the concerns about coming home with oil & smells gained from such a place. Probably similar to the glitter makeup problem I have with escorts, but there I have access to a hotel bathroom to wash up.

Also most of the non FS parlors offer a level of eroticism and pseudo intimacy that I have never found with an escort.

I agree with ST on the eroticism point for HE massage therapists in general. However my question is really, at a parlor? While on a table? I've seen massage girls at hotels specifically to get that level of sensual play. I typically ask either to skip the massage charade and just enjoy mutual touch in bed or start by giving her a massage instead. Treat a woman sensually and you'll get more in return is a universal truth, even on a first meet. Again it's not a question of why see a massage girl, but more why not see one where you can enjoy each other in a big bed?

And scrutinizing parlor operators as handlers? No disrespect, but that's such a non sequitur.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of those who claim a guy who screens members based on their behavior on USA before handing out a UTR number is a handler while a parlor is not. Case in point:

I completely disagree with the pimp remark

As do I with your remark about Benz. The point is neither of us can claim one is in some way a handler but not the other (myself included since I've done the same thing as Benz but without your scorn). The fact remains a parlor employs prostitutes (knowingly), advertises them in sexy lingerie and obvious innuendo on escort sites, provides a level of security for them, then charges you a fee to see them for what we all know will lead to sex act. What would you like to call the parlor's culpability in that? We all want that to be legal, but the only opinion that carries any weight is our legal system which frequently calls it a prostitution ring and sex trafficking and will crack down on it at anytime:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mac...n-charges/amp/

no different than hair stylists and other boutique places.

LOL. This is a repeat of Rob's own non-sequitur argument. I don't tip valets, hair stylists or waitresses for sexual services and have it condoned by their place of employment. So this comparison is laughable. Well, except for that one time with the waitress at TGI Friday's in St Louis but that's an old story. It's stupid for any of us who willingly participate in illegal activity to argue who's actions are worse.

Kind of like as a kid, being caught at a Care Bears movie. Well, ok -- but what are YOU doing here?

I told you Charlie, I was just picking up my kid sister! You were the one wearing that pink rainbow bear sweater.

[JMaul]

I don't always agree with every Benz post and so a couple years ago moderator blocked me from being able to copy and past Benz posts on the boards. At the time I found it unusually protective of Benz, but over the last couple years I've noticed many members who disagree or post dissenting opinions wind up on moderation. It is what it is but I feel it has hurt the flow of the board postings to have so many posters on moderation, and I'm not talking about inflammatory posters in general but those that specifically dissent with Benz wind up moderated.

At any rate, since I can't copy Benz' post I'll tag on to what Djbiker posted and reference it to the original post I'm commenting on. I found it unusually asinine albeit a bit funny, conjuring up the image of an older gentleman waddling 150 yards through a mostly empty parking area on the outskirts of planet fitness, swinging a bag of milk chocolate bark in his hands, to walk around the building and "sneak into the front door" of a massage parlor. Quite the clandestine entrance indeed!
! Have to agree, sometimes (not always) this guy sound like quite the tool (or as Horny Flier says "tool bag"

I've had the same issue. And I'll make the same claim that either Benz is an admin or is in tight with A2. I've requested to be off moderation twice and gotten a snarky remark both times. It's more than a coincidence LOL.

Benz wants the rest of the board to think those that oppose his self appointed status are a group of circle jerks working together. It's nothing but a war of words to deflect and control the narrative.

We all approach the hobby differently. I pay for good service and chemistry with a provider. I think I lost Benz on the part where I said I pay lmfao. His handling of women (yes he's a SHADY FUCKING HANDLER!) requires those that want to be associated to his cult to pay for the battered women he brings into the hobby. Long ago I figured out anyone he recommended wasn't worth the time or money to visit. You're just perpetuating this cycle of bringing unreliable talent into the hobby so proceed with caution.

Also since you're using those beloved passwords Benz now knows your phone number associated to your user name, burner or not. It funny AF that Benz talks about extortion like he's the victim and yet he probably knows the vehicles you drive, your license plate #, your name if you gave it, etc. You would be naive to think he is not involved at all when you engage in his specials or new ladies he brings to the scene.

When he doesn't get his way or control the narrative, he uses numerous alternate user names and different phone numbers to bug providers who won't see him. Schedule appts to no show and the like. Posts stupid shit like this too because he is a coward and thinks just posting about someone will get a rise or change the opinion of those that read.

Look no further than his posts. He's an expert at running incognito, accessibility to burner phones, how to negotiate the lowest price possible or play games with providers. Isn't it just a little bit strange that the best providers in GR have absolutely no affiliation with Benz, nor will they see him? Hayley somehow came on the boards after a 2 year absence and gave him an endorsement, and yet I see no reviews of her nor any real review of Benz actually doing something at serenity other than sitting in the room next to you drinking coffee and getting a free BJ. Add in the fact that he likely knows more about you than you think and that's pretty fucked up.

[Charlie441]

1. The whole world knows what's happening at these parlors, so aren't you afraid of having someone recognize you or your vehicle there? If I'm seen driving to a hotel or some random private residence for my hobby I have a chance of making an excuse why I'm there. How does one visit a place discreetly?

Not a problem. Places like Pancea, you park way back there, so if anyone's going to see it -- they're going there too. But also, you can easily just not park right in front of any place. Easy as pie.

2. A parlor seems like the riskiest place to go outside of a brothel in terms of LEO. Perhaps this is too cliche but I envision at any moment an overzealous DA wanting to "clean up" the community will target parlors and their patrons. All it takes is suspicion of prostitution (which is all of them), recording your license plate and time of your visit and you could get a detective knocking at your door during your family dinner time to "ask you some questions" about the place. Worst case is some trumped up charges of human trafficking to make the news, the best case is having to explain to the wife why cops are asking you about a rub & tug. Either way it's an easy deterrent operation that can happen anytime.

Again, easy not to park right in front. Super amateur guys go in many of those places not looking for nor getting an HE. So even IF they came in by crazy bad luck on your part, just being there can't be an issue. Instead, you look out for people you Know. Which is easy. Kind of like as a kid, being caught at a Care Bears movie. Well, ok -- but what are YOU doing here? If someone happens to oddly see you leaving it, which would require them being right by themselves, at a chain of stores, you can just say you peeked in out of curiosity. Whateve.

3. Why aren't parlor operators scrutinized as pimps and shunned by this reporting community? The irony that one prominent provider who criticized UTR "handlers" on this thread but recently joined a parlor which advertises for her, probably books for her and takes a direct cut with door fees isn't lost on me. Why not see and encourage independents like a lot of reports in the escort section?

Because people actually do go to them without HEs. Remember the New England coach sighted by cops from the massage parlor in FL? They dropped the case because they installed cameras and going thru their trash seen as unlawful + a guy went for a lawsuit against them cause he went there with no HE. And THEY had the tape to prove it. I can understand you not wanting to go to a super shady looking place, sure. But merely going to one doesn't equal a HE.

4. Why not see an escort and eliminate the guess work? You are paying for time either way, so why spend half of it on your stomach squishing an erection? Maximum your fun time, full service or not.

You do get more bang for the buck with an escort, although if you want to compare them when randomly selected, you're going to run into more riff-raff with random escorts, hands down. Hence, a forum like this. Once you get an escort you can rely on, then it becomes 100% fine. But same goes for a massage place when you have the parking place down & a gal you've gotten good treatment by. At a higher price for what you get, but you know you're not going to run into pimps or them being wigged out on a fix (usually).

5. If you answer "because I like a good massage" be prepared for me to laugh in your face. Unless you are giving out parlor gift certificates to your wife or mother I'd have a hard time believing you are getting a legitimate, quality massage. My perception of parlor demographics are 100% female workers servicing 99% male clients. I imagine the female clients are one time visitors who left disappointed after thinking they might replicate the spa treatment they got on their holiday cruise ship. Am I wrong?

Yeah, you're not accurate, but you are in the right direction. Just letting the steering go off some, is all. Some can give a good massage, honestly. And the idea comes up when you're sore ("Hey, I got an idea. ") but sure, the massage is just a side note. Just like someone's not going to see an escort for a kiss.

[Blackfire]

Sure, I'll try. It's fun, satisfying, cheap, and safe. You are never beaten, robbed, threatened, or scammed. LEO doesn't give a fuck about it, nor does anyone else, so it is very discrete. And if you find a girl you like and you really connect with, repeat visits get better and better.

Oh and the reason the reviews are pretty tame, often, is intentional. The good and smart girls know there is no advantage to becoming notorious. They'd rather reserve the real fun for the good clients. So they request keeping the true dirt out of these and other public places, and the good clients respect that request. Trust me, there's more happening than grabbing a boobie.

Also, why the fuck would someone attempt to insult others using this site merely because their preferences differ from yours, whether that be trolling street walkers, frequenting massage, or anywhere in between? Doing so suggests a lack of confidence in your arguments, doesn't it? This last bit wasn't directed at you PP, others are chiming in with some weirdness.

Does that help?

Nice, honest post Tommey!! I don't get why so many sycophants want to "protect" their favorite girls and get all offended if someone on here says they fucked her or she sucked their dick. Some guys are either like ostrichs with their head in the sand and maybe they really are naive and don't believe it when a guy reviews they may have got more, or they are so scared to offend any of the workers in the parlors that they have to defend their honor and reputation up to and including disputing a real review. Almost every girl will fuck and suck for enough green. And it just ain't you they're doing it with no matter what they tell you.