Ripoff Reports

**Bkmsw** · 10-12-21 12:27

Originally Posted by MrWhite627 [View Original Post]

If you don't want to give provider names that allow pay after. Can you tell us the name of the place that you found them? AMP, Agency or web site?

A few years back I too got ripped off a few times. I decided to try the "Pay after Play" and it didn't work for me. I didn't want to waste my time so instead of asking them when I arrived. I asked them via text after the amount was agreed upon if they would do " Pay After Play ". I tried this with 30 to 40 different providers mostly from sites like EB, STGs etc. The replies that I received back were 100% NO! I then tried to ask if they would do half upfront and half after. Again 100 % NO! When they replied back with NO. I explained to them that I asked because I had been ripped of in the past. The few replies I received from them were all " I have too " that's why I won't do it.

Am I missing something? Is there a certain tactic you use to get them to agree to Pay after Play besides walk out if they won't?

You're not missing anything. Some people will argue without answering follow up questions and keep hammering a point home without any substantial facts to back up their point. They want to be right, they don't want to get it right. Take Ron, I have asked and others have asked who specifically he has seen that agrees to take money after the fact. He didn't respond to me publicly (or privately) and he didn't respond to the others at least publicly. Someone else on this forum went through his last 250 or so posts and didn't find a single review on a specific girl. That should be a clue right there.

I am not interested in being right in an argument. I am not interested in winning the debate or getting someone on an opposing viewpoint to admit I was right. I am more worried about getting it right. So this will be my last comment on this subject about paying before vs. later. I am only writing this post so others who are reading this thread and don't know what to do can read my thoughts and make a decision based on what they perceived as being right for them. If paying after is your goal go for it. If you find a provider who is willing to do this great for you. I hope you leave a review and let others know your success. For me, I am just going to ignore these pay later posts unless someone tells a specific provider that allows this and others write reviews confirming. But by continuing this topic you are giving the pay later but I won't tell who crowd what they want, attention. It's really no different that the infamous Hangingballs who would leave outrageous reviews and then when called out on it would leave more. He got attention and that's all he wanted. Let's stop and get back on topic. This particular thread is about rip offs and scams. Let us get back to calling out the providers who are trying to steal our money.

B.

**Moejoo** · 10-12-21 11:46

Originally Posted by Jinurso [View Original Post]

It's a good observation. I think there tend to be two ways prostitution is described:

1. As a hobby.

2. As a game.

People who tend to use the term "hobby" usually think of prostitution in positive terms. It's fun, adventurous, and a real passion. People who call it a hobby love the experience and often fondly describe time they spend with women.

People who tend to use the term "game" usually think of prostitution as a competition between themselves and the prostitute. For them it's about winning more so than enjoying the experience. This is where you see terms like "control" and "advantage". You go in like it's a battle of wits and the objective is to come out as the winner of the exchange.

I sometimes wonder if guys who describe prostitution in battle terms come away from each encounter feeling joy or if it's more relief. And if prostitution is more of a hobby or a habit for them..

Great observation, the last words in my mind when seeing girls are words like power, leverage, control, advantage and game. I have no interest in girls who are focused on those things. I'd still like to hear these guys name who has gone along with their wishes and who hasn't. For the sake of argument I can get that guys might be selfish or embarrassed by the girls they see but what possible explanation could there be to not mention names of girls who have turned them down?

Perhaps claiming this tactic makes them feel powerful on this board and they don't even see any girls, they just rub one out after posting their fantasies here. There are lots more different kinks and fetishes than anyone can imagine Maybe in the pursuit of separating fantasies from real experiences these guys might preface their posts that they are talking about fantasies that they have, maybe even give them a sub forum where they can say whatever they want and not be questioned and will be supported for their vivid imaginations.

**Chicago41** · 10-12-21 10:57

Originally Posted by Jinurso [View Original Post]

Who are some of your favorite providers? And do they all accept payment after?

I would also like to know, Ron. Who are you seeing who has always accepted payment at the end of the date?

**MrWhite627** · 10-12-21 09:34

Originally Posted by Jinurso [View Original Post]

Who are some of your favorite providers? And do they all accept payment after?

If you don't want to give provider names that allow pay after. Can you tell us the name of the place that you found them? AMP, Agency or web site?

A few years back I too got ripped off a few times. I decided to try the "Pay after Play" and it didn't work for me. I didn't want to waste my time so instead of asking them when I arrived. I asked them via text after the amount was agreed upon if they would do " Pay After Play ". I tried this with 30 to 40 different providers mostly from sites like EB, STGs etc. The replies that I received back were 100% NO! I then tried to ask if they would do half upfront and half after. Again 100 % NO! When they replied back with NO. I explained to them that I asked because I had been ripped of in the past. The few replies I received from them were all " I have too " that's why I won't do it.

Am I missing something? Is there a certain tactic you use to get them to agree to Pay after Play besides walk out if they won't?

**Ron M** · 10-12-21 00:47

As you know I'm a Payment Afterwards proponent.

Those in favor of Payment Upfront gave me insight of why this method is best. I'm in agreement with most points. But it's not enough to convince me to ever pay upfront. Especially reading about Jinurso's harrowing personal experiences. Thanks to those who had thoughtful insights on this issue.

**Jinurso** · 10-11-21 20:19

I was thinking back to the times I was ripped off. And by ripped off I mean they made off with the money without providing any service. (I don't consider "I didn't like her BJ" to be a rip off and I would never withhold payment over that anyway. I just wouldn't tip and wouldn't see her again).

I might be missing a few but I can think of five times I've been ripped off ever. Out of about 400+ women I've seen that's almost a 99% success rate.

Among those five, I was thinking just now what would have happened if I refused to pay them until after and walked out (or tried to walk out).

Two of them yeah, it probably would have saved me money as I would have walked out and that would have been then end of that.

Of the other three, two were incalls and one was an outcall.

Both incalls were of the "possibly dangerous pimp right there" variety and I'm not at all confident that not paying would have been a better option than paying and getting ripped off. In situations like that, you're risking a lot if you end up in a confrontation with a pimp. Best case scenario you end up paying the money anyway to get out with no incident. Worst case scenario it becomes violent. Whether you win or lose, the consequences are worse than the money at stake.

The last one was an outcall. I opened the door and a TS came barging through demanding the money. I gave "her" the money because "she" was clearly unstable and running around the room looking for money. I tried pushing him out and he said "touch me and I will fucking scream" so I gave him money and he left. Again, a case where paying is cheaper than not paying.

If I stick with agencies or well reviewed independents and keep paying attention to the latest reviews and do my part to post reviews I don't face much risk.

**Moejoo** · 10-11-21 19:50

Originally Posted by Jc2490 [View Original Post]

I agree 100%. These women seem to think that since they own the pussy that they are in charge. I feel that by not paying upfront, we control the situation. If they don't like it, fine, I can go get pussy elsewhere. The problem fot the women is that most of them need your money for their next night's room fee and their next fix. Do not allow them to have the power!

Maybe this shows the kinds of girls who are willing to accept being payed afterwards, so where do you go to seek out these types of girls?.

**Jinurso** · 10-11-21 19:46

Originally Posted by IndigoWalk [View Original Post]

There's a lot of strong language in this thread like "advantage," "leverage", "control" & "power" that seem like they go well beyond the reasonable and customary limits around mutual consent. It's not how I roll, but I understand we are all here for different reasons.

It's a good observation. I think there tend to be two ways prostitution is described:

1. As a hobby.

2. As a game.

People who tend to use the term "hobby" usually think of prostitution in positive terms. It's fun, adventurous, and a real passion. People who call it a hobby love the experience and often fondly describe time they spend with women.

People who tend to use the term "game" usually think of prostitution as a competition between themselves and the prostitute. For them it's about winning more so than enjoying the experience. This is where you see terms like "control" and "advantage". You go in like it's a battle of wits and the objective is to come out as the winner of the exchange.

I sometimes wonder if guys who describe prostitution in battle terms come away from each encounter feeling joy or if it's more relief. And if prostitution is more of a hobby or a habit for them.

That's also why I'm curious about the kinds of girls these guys see. If you're constantly pushing the outer edges of LC to find the absolute best deal you can, then yeah maybe you learn to always be on high alert because that's where most of the scammers are. That's not the area where I usually play but I could understand that point of view if that's where these guys like to be.

**Jinurso** · 10-11-21 19:25

Originally Posted by Jc2490 [View Original Post]

I agree 100%. These women seem to think that since they own the pussy that they are in charge. I feel that by not paying upfront, we control the situation. If they don't like it, fine, I can go get pussy elsewhere. The problem fot the women is that most of them need your money for their next night's room fee and their next fix. Do not allow them to have the power!

Who are some of your favorite providers? And do they all accept payment after?

**Moejoo** · 10-11-21 19:18

Since girls who accept pay at the end of a appointment seems to be the most closely guarded secret on the board then maybe there is another way to get names attached to this subject. I am sure that all of you guys with your secret harems of pay later girls must not bat 100 percent with your strategy then what is your batting percentage? Now since you aren't willing to give up the names of your fabulous secret harems how about naming the girls who would not go along with your plans so we can either seek them out or eliminate them from future consideration if we are seeking out our own secret harems of pay later girls. Some of you must have got tired of some of your pay later girls and dumped them in favor of new pay later girls, why can't you give their names up?

**LeeOskar** · 10-11-21 18:54

Originally Posted by IndigoWalk [View Original Post]

I'm a pay upfront kind of guy. Here's some examples of why I think that's the best approach:

These {Car dealerships} seem to think that since they own the {cars} that they are in charge. I feel that by not paying {the car dealership} upfront, we control the situation. If they don't like it, fine, I can go get {a car} elsewhere. The problem fot the {Car dealership} is that most of them need your money for their {rent and employee payroll}. Do not allow them to have the power.

I don't think many car dealerships are going to let you drive off in a car without cash down, and / or a contract. Those are the defined limits of the transaction. And the shady used car dealers that rip you off are going to go out of business reasonably quickly / and we have ways. Like YELP, (or TER or this board) of finding out about them. That's both "reasonable and customary".

Even if you substitute {restaurant} in the above you are going to end up paying, maybe a discounted rate, maybe not, unless you dine and dash. Maybe no tip, but everyone is going to work towards a mutually agreeable transaction within the defined limits of the reasonable and customary roles of the seller and the buyer relationship. Some things the restaurant just can't or won't do. But you don't get to order a Filet Mignon from McDonalds and not pay for the Big Mac you just ordered and was given to you.

There's a lot of strong language in this thread like "advantage," "leverage", "control" & "power" that seem like they go well beyond the reasonable and customary limits around mutual consent. It's not how I roll, but I understand we are all here for different reasons.

Do I get to take the provider for a "test drive" to see if she's right for me? For a sit down restaurant, we pay after the meal. That's what the pro pay-after crowd is saying. You don't pay for a steak in advance & out comes a shriveled, burned piece of meat. No one's saying not to pay. The issue is whether the chances of you getting what you paid for is better dependent on when you pay. And that works both ways for the provider too.

**Ron M** · 10-11-21 17:57

Originally Posted by Jc2490 [View Original Post]

I agree 100%. These women seem to think that since they own the pussy that they are in charge. I feel that by not paying upfront, we control the situation. If they don't like it, fine, I can go get pussy elsewhere. The problem fot the women is that most of them need your money for their next night's room fee and their next fix. Do not allow them to have the power!

Grand Slam, Touchdown, Slam Dunk!

Someone finally understands what I'm saying.

**IndigoWalk** · 10-11-21 17:17

Originally Posted by Jc2490 [View Original Post]

I agree 100%. These women seem to think that since they own the pussy that they are in charge. I feel that by not paying upfront, we control the situation. If they don't like it, fine, I can go get pussy elsewhere. The problem fot the women is that most of them need your money for their next night's room fee and their next fix. Do not allow them to have the power!

I'm a pay upfront kind of guy. Here's some examples of why I think that's the best approach:

These {Car dealerships} seem to think that since they own the {cars} that they are in charge. I feel that by not paying {the car dealership} upfront, we control the situation. If they don't like it, fine, I can go get {a car} elsewhere. The problem fot the {Car dealership} is that most of them need your money for their {rent and employee payroll}. Do not allow them to have the power.

I don't think many car dealerships are going to let you drive off in a car without cash down, and / or a contract. Those are the defined limits of the transaction. And the shady used car dealers that rip you off are going to go out of business reasonably quickly / and we have ways. Like YELP, (or TER or this board) of finding out about them. That's both "reasonable and customary".

Even if you substitute {restaurant} in the above you are going to end up paying, maybe a discounted rate, maybe not, unless you dine and dash. Maybe no tip, but everyone is going to work towards a mutually agreeable transaction within the defined limits of the reasonable and customary roles of the seller and the buyer relationship. Some things the restaurant just can't or won't do. But you don't get to order a Filet Mignon from McDonalds and not pay for the Big Mac you just ordered and was given to you.

There's a lot of strong language in this thread like "advantage," "leverage", "control" & "power" that seem like they go well beyond the reasonable and customary limits around mutual consent. It's not how I roll, but I understand we are all here for different reasons.

**Jc2490** · 10-11-21 11:44

Originally Posted by RonM [View Original Post]

Most are valid points.

You lose your advantage by paying upfront. You guys have been lucky so far. I was a pay upfront proponent at the ground level in this game. But when I got ripped off paying upfront that experience changed my perspective in the game. I'm going to still pay after the session is over. If I miss out on a great time with a girl that wants payment upfront, then so be it. There are plenty enough girls in this game to see. Your money is the only leverage and advantage you have when dealing with these girls. Just be careful paying upfront.

I agree 100%. These women seem to think that since they own the pussy that they are in charge. I feel that by not paying upfront, we control the situation. If they don't like it, fine, I can go get pussy elsewhere. The problem fot the women is that most of them need your money for their next night's room fee and their next fix. Do not allow them to have the power!

**Jinurso** · 10-11-21 11:25

Originally Posted by RonM [View Original Post]

Most are valid points.

You lose your advantage by paying upfront. You guys have been lucky so far. I was a pay upfront proponent at the ground level in this game. But when I got ripped off paying upfront that experience changed my perspective in the game. I'm going to still pay after the session is over. If I miss out on a great time with a girl that wants payment upfront, then so be it. There are plenty enough girls in this game to see. Your money is the only leverage and advantage you have when dealing with these girls. Just be careful paying upfront.

Who are some of your favorite providers in the area?