Rants and Raves

[Jims2321]

For those who are apparently lacking in math skills and understanding family history. I just turned 60, my grandfather was born in 1890 which would have made him 27-29 during the Spanish Flu. I remember him well and even spent 2 months living with him before I shipped out for Army Basic Training. He died at age 92. So the story told is possible and not assume the writer is in their 80's.

Then again, many people are showing either they cannot do their own math, are doing that crazy new math, or just trust the warped math coming out of fed and state government folks.

My grandfather was born in 1888. I was born in 1963. He passed away in 1973. The math is pretty straight forward.

I am totally confused at the lack of basic comprehension skills and concern by some of the posters on this thread. There is an abundance of evidence that while this is not the 1918 flu, it is not influenza either. Why this is compared to the 1918 pandemic, is simple. Because if we followed the social interactions like they did 100+ years ago, then yeah we could potentially lose millions of fellow Americans.

[Aaron Hamlet]

No copy / paste? That's all you do. .

This is copy and paste: Forty years ago another flu from Asia killed a population adjusted 250 thousand Americans and life went on as normal.

'In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000 people in the USA, mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide.

Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today. Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not more so, though we shall have to wait to see.

"In 1968/69," says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, "the H3 N2 pandemic killed more individuals in the USA Than the combined total number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars. ".

Nothing was closed by force. Schools mostly stayed open. Businesses did too. You could go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. In fact, people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of August 1969 planned in January during the worse period of death actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked globally six months later. There was no thought given to the virus which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going demographic.

Stock markets didn't crash because of the flu. Congress passed no legislation. The Federal Reserve did nothing. Not a single governor acted to enforce social distancing, curve flattening (even though hundreds of thousands of people were hospitalized), or banning of crowds. No mothers were arrested for taking their kids to other homes. No surfers were arrested. No daycares were shut even though there were more infant deaths with this virus than the one we are experiencing now. There were no suicides, no unemployment, no drug overdoses attributable to flu. '.

[Jims2321]

Did your Grandpa explain to you the effects WW 1 had on the second and third waves. WW 1 at that time the largest global migration in history. How more US soldiers died of Spanish Flu than in battle. Sick soldiers packed into troop trains / ships with the healthy. Packed in the trenches to fight, dying on top of each other. Sick packed into the field hospitals. Packed into the hospitals once they made it back to the states spreading it all around. Hundreds of thousands of asymptomatic carriers returning home and spreading disease. He tell you how Wilson's political advisors told him not to send more soldiers to Europe because too many were dying but his military advisors told him if he didn't Germany would own Europe so he kept sending them. Grandpa tell you how effective antibiotics and testing were? Probably not because they had neither. Wouldn't have penicillin for another 25 years. There's a lot more to this story.

If Grandpa was a doctor in NYC over 100 years ago and you remember him describing this to you, are you 80 years old? Did Grandpa live to 110 and told you the horrors of the 1918 pandemic when you were a little boy

First of all my grandfather was born in 1888. Which made him 30 at the time off WW I. So yeah. Second while he had a draft card, his was a high number. Understand WW I had minimum impact, for two reasons.

1. It was already raging in the US before the troops even deployed.

2. The second wave hit in December of 1918. US troops were still in Europe or on their way home.

When he passed he was 85 in 1973. Yes I was 10. So there is your math.

The impact of returning troops was pretty minimal with regard to the 2nd wave.

[Aaron Hamlet]

For those who are apparently lacking in math skills and understanding family history. I just turned 60, my grandfather was born in 1890 which would have made him 27-29 during the Spanish Flu. I remember him well and even spent 2 months living with him before I shipped out for Army Basic Training. He died at age 92. So the story told is possible and not assume the writer is in their 80's.

Then again, many people are showing either they cannot do their own math, are doing that crazy new math, or just trust the warped math coming out of fed and state government folks.

It's possible his grandpa was a young doctor in the early 1900's and what he describes actually happened, but when someone frames all re the China Virus from a political perspective, spits out propaganda and warns of mass death, second and third waves, as they tell half truths or plain bullshit, they have a political aim. As mentioned, they toe the party line. Spit out talking points from some hot sheet found in their inbox. I don't believe a word that comes out of their mouth.

[Aaron Hamlet]

No copy / paste? That's all you do. Tell me everything you've posted or observed personally on this topic that ain't been copy and paste.

Did I challenge anything you said about WWI (not 1, you idjit)? Perhaps you should have interviewed my great-grandfather on the front lines in Europe during the Great War. I have many hand-written, framed letters written by him to his then-gf and future wife, describing the details of his time in the trenches.

What kind of 'rifle' did you carry? Give me the correct name and tell me how to clean it blindfolded. And do not copy and paste.

You think anecdotal evidence is more valid than actual facts and data? You don't think WW 1, thats right 1, had any effect on the second and third wave of the spanish Flu?

A M-16A1 and I can't tell you how to clean it blindfolded, war hero.

Where did I copy and paste anything from an newspaper opinion piece or a new article?

You want to cower in fear inside tho facts tell you if you're healthy and under 60 your risk is minimal at best, do it.

Someone here once referred to you as an old drunk. At that time I wondered why. I don't anymore.

[Sgt Lurker]

If Grandpa was a doctor in NYC over 100 years ago and you remember him describing this to you, are you 80 years old? Did Grandpa live to 110 and told you the horrors of the 1918 pandemic when you were a little boy?

For those who are apparently lacking in math skills and understanding family history. I just turned 60, my grandfather was born in 1890 which would have made him 27-29 during the Spanish Flu. I remember him well and even spent 2 months living with him before I shipped out for Army Basic Training. He died at age 92. So the story told is possible and not assume the writer is in their 80's.

Then again, many people are showing either they cannot do their own math, are doing that crazy new math, or just trust the warped math coming out of fed and state government folks.

[Niteluvr]

No copy and paste at all. If you think the effects the 1918 pandemic had on WW 1 is only in theory 100 years later and there's no clear method of accuracy, your reading skills and intellectual curiosity are lacking. I carried a rifle, tough guy.

No copy / paste? That's all you do. Tell me everything you've posted or observed personally on this topic that ain't been copy and paste.

Did I challenge anything you said about WWI (not 1, you idjit)? Perhaps you should have interviewed my great-grandfather on the front lines in Europe during the Great War. I have many hand-written, framed letters written by him to his then-gf and future wife, describing the details of his time in the trenches.

What kind of 'rifle' did you carry? Give me the correct name and tell me how to clean it blindfolded. And do not copy and paste.

[Aaron Hamlet]

more accurate than your copying / pasting skills from news articles for which there's no clear method of accuracy and theorizing results



Pick up a rifle, get on the front lines and report back with something accurate and fresh.

No copy and paste at all. If you think the effects the 1918 pandemic had on WW 1 is only in theory 100 years later and there's no clear method of accuracy, your reading skills and intellectual curiosity are lacking. I carried a rifle, tough guy.

[Niteluvr]

If Grandpa was a doctor in NYC over 100 years ago and you remember him describing this to you, are you 80 years old? Did Grandpa live to 110 and told you the horrors of the 1918 pandemic when you were a little boy?

If he is 80 years old, you need to take a break and listen to anything he has to say. Having experienced "history" first hand is a lot more accurate than your copying / pasting skills from news articles for which there's no clear method of accuracy and theorizing results in something I did in the toilet this morning.

Anyone remember elementary school where you'd all line up, the teacher would whisper something into the first kid's ear, then everyone was told to repeat it verbatim? Last kid in line got it all wrong. That's the best you can get with regurgitating news feeds.

Pick up a rifle, get on the front lines and report back with something accurate and fresh.

[Aaron Hamlet]

I was fortunate enough to spend time with my grandfather who was doctor in New York during the 1918,1919,1920 pandemic (yes it lasted 3 years). He describe the daily struggle that he went thru, with triage and dealing with deciding who lived and who could not be saved. But what struck me was what he said about the 2nd wave.

Did your Grandpa explain to you the effects WW 1 had on the second and third waves. WW 1 at that time the largest global migration in history. How more US soldiers died of Spanish Flu than in battle. Sick soldiers packed into troop trains / ships with the healthy. Packed in the trenches to fight, dying on top of each other. Sick packed into the field hospitals. Packed into the hospitals once they made it back to the states spreading it all around. Hundreds of thousands of asymptomatic carriers returning home and spreading disease. He tell you how Wilson's political advisors told him not to send more soldiers to Europe because too many were dying but his military advisors told him if he didn't Germany would own Europe so he kept sending them. Grandpa tell you how effective antibiotics and testing were? Probably not because they had neither. Wouldn't have penicillin for another 25 years. There's a lot more to this story.

If Grandpa was a doctor in NYC over 100 years ago and you remember him describing this to you, are you 80 years old? Did Grandpa live to 110 and told you the horrors of the 1918 pandemic when you were a little boy?

[Admin2]

First is was me calling him an "Orange Turd" which a common term of endearment for him by independents and liberals. Sort like the nicknames the right has for Obama.

Second, too many people still do not have any idea of the impact this can have if we just go back to precovid ways. I was fortunate enough to spend time with my grandfather who was doctor in New York during the 1918,1919,1920 pandemic (yes it lasted 3 years). He describe the daily struggle that he went thru, with triage and dealing with deciding who lived and who could not be saved. But what struck me was what he said about the 2nd wave. He told me that part of the reason it was so much worse, was that it so many of the healthcare workers were sick early on, and died or had to quarantine. There simple was not enough people to take care of those that got sick.

I have been talking to a lot of healthcare workers just in the North Atlanta area. A lot of them are not get paid the overtime they worked, are still not getting tested regularly, and are sick and tired of not being able to spend time with their families and kids. There is going to be a real shortage of nurses / med techs and doctors come the next wave in 3 months.

As far as 2nd and 3rd order effects. Those are meaningless unless people feel safe. For example it does no good if you open your restaurant and can on seat 25 or 50% of capacity. Restaurants don't operate based on that, they operate based on 80% or more of all their tables filled. Their operating margins are tight enough. Now they will have to pay their bills and buy food at premiums. Finally if the wait staff can make enough tips to reach the minimum wage, the restaurant owner has to make up that difference. This is the real world facts that business owners have to face. Open up now, and hope for some silver bullet for covid19 saves them. Or stay closed, and hope that Congress gets its collective head out of its ass and comes up with a real solution to keep business viable until we have a solution for the entire population.

Well, I am pretty sure that global recession in 2008/2009 did not kill more people that all of the diseases. More likely suicide rates increased some. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect...eat_Recession..

Nothing will work until people feel safe and part of that is when people stop treating corona as if it's the pandemic of 1918, serology testing shows it's not and medical science has improved since 1918. Covid is nowhere near as lethal as once thought and it's time to stop treating it as if it's ebola. The projected 10,000,000 dead in the hammer and dance was wrong. The UK guys 2,000,000 was as wrong as he was on mad cow, swine flu, bird flu, ect. The 1. 5 million the CDC called for was wrong. I'm not saying it's nothing, it's obviously a bad bug but it's not ebola, it's overall case mortality rate is going to be less than a 10th of a percent.

Sweden has made it clear, lockdowns are unnecessary. I get it, you planted your flag on lockdowns and nothing will make you change your mind but you're wrong and Dr Katz and Dr Tegnell are right.

Barry Bluestone (lefty economist) in the book "The De-Industrialization of America" arguing against business offshoring jobs for profits says that every 1% rise in joblessness is directly responsible for 38,000 deaths. Joblessness in the US is up probably 14%. That's 500,000 bodies from 2nd and 3rd order effects.

A friend of mine said it best "If every week was Shark Week and that's all that was on every channel 24/7 people in Kansas would be afraid to take showers. ".

Heart disease is going to kill 650,000 people this year. Why isn't every single news outlet publishing stories about the dangers of saturated fat every day?

The UN is saying that several hundred thousand kids will die as a result of the world wide recession coming in the wake of the corona shutdowns, it really angers me when people use shame to say that opening up the economy will kill people. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21Y2X7 Like I said, the number of people who die from corona mitigation will probably be an order of magnitude than would have died from it. Please don't call them meaningless. You are talking about millions of lives worldwide. Millions of people dying slow deaths from malnutrition.

They made the decisions with the best info they had available at the time, new info is now available but nobody wants to change the decision. Doesn't make sense to me. Well, except you're a lefty like me and that's the party line. You wouldn't believe the hate mail I'm getting in my personal life because I'm not toeing that line. I get it, everybody you know is telling you that going outside means you and grandma die and nobody is presenting you options.

You are.

[Jims2321]

I actually called him a shitstain not an orange turd, and I agree with everything else in this post. Not all liberals are starry eyed loons as you would wish them to be.



Sadly like all issues in the US it's become binary and the people who are still pushing the lockdowns refuse to process 2nd and 3rd order effects.

It may be too late, I doubt a V shaped recovery is possible. Demand is being systematically destroyed in the US.

I think the impending global recession is going to kill orders of magnitude more people than the rona ever would have.

First is was me calling him an "Orange Turd" which a common term of endearment for him by independents and liberals. Sort like the nicknames the right has for Obama.

Second, too many people still do not have any idea of the impact this can have if we just go back to precovid ways. I was fortunate enough to spend time with my grandfather who was doctor in New York during the 1918,1919,1920 pandemic (yes it lasted 3 years). He describe the daily struggle that he went thru, with triage and dealing with deciding who lived and who could not be saved. But what struck me was what he said about the 2nd wave. He told me that part of the reason it was so much worse, was that it so many of the healthcare workers were sick early on, and died or had to quarantine. There simple was not enough people to take care of those that got sick.

I have been talking to a lot of healthcare workers just in the North Atlanta area. A lot of them are not get paid the overtime they worked, are still not getting tested regularly, and are sick and tired of not being able to spend time with their families and kids. There is going to be a real shortage of nurses / med techs and doctors come the next wave in 3 months.

As far as 2nd and 3rd order effects. Those are meaningless unless people feel safe. For example it does no good if you open your restaurant and can on seat 25 or 50% of capacity. Restaurants don't operate based on that, they operate based on 80% or more of all their tables filled. Their operating margins are tight enough. Now they will have to pay their bills and buy food at premiums. Finally if the wait staff can make enough tips to reach the minimum wage, the restaurant owner has to make up that difference. This is the real world facts that business owners have to face. Open up now, and hope for some silver bullet for covid19 saves them. Or stay closed, and hope that Congress gets its collective head out of its ass and comes up with a real solution to keep business viable until we have a solution for the entire population.

Well, I am pretty sure that global recession in 2008/2009 did not kill more people that all of the diseases. More likely suicide rates increased some. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect...eat_Recession..

[Aaron Hamlet]

https://www.projectveritas.com/video...acy-of-deaths/

How many of the deaths in NYC attributed to corona are actually from corona? This snippet gives you reason to question. https://www.projectveritas.com/video...-of-deaths/his Doesn't this just sound like NYC? I would bet there are other places doing the same thing!

$13 K xtra taxpayer dollars for China virus deaths and another $30 k if used ventilator. Been over a month that Dr's have been saying ventilators do more harm in China Virus patients. But $30 k is $30 k.

Imbeciles still squawk about need more testing. Last week CBS faked a testing event in Detroit to show demand where there was none. Minn. Gov is begging people to get tested. They have capacity for 10 k tests per day but only doing 4 k.

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/...ing-site-line/

Germany's reported that China told WHO on Jan 21st to sit on the fact that China Virus was transmitted human to human. They did. Fuck China. Fuck the WHO. Fuck WHO leader Cholera Ted.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3931126

[HobbyMan51]

I actually called him a shitstain not an orange turd, and I agree with everything else in this post. Not all liberals are starry eyed loons as you would wish them to be.

Sadly like all issues in the US it's become binary and the people who are still pushing the lockdowns refuse to process 2nd and 3rd order effects.

It may be too late, I doubt a V shaped recovery is possible. Demand is being systematically destroyed in the US.

I think the impending global recession is going to kill orders of magnitude more people than the rona ever would have.

I think that it is too late. I think that the powers that wanted the shutdown and wanted the destruction of the American economy have succeeded, in no small part because they succeeded in scaring enough people out there to help them with their agenda of destruction. When they were able to achieve that kind of leverage then the battle was lost. Now all they have to do is to continue the irrational fear mongering that the virus will kill virtually everyone who comes into contact with it in order to strangle the economy to death. I have been warning about the consequences of this for weeks now on this thread, that what we are doing to ourselves will, not maybe, WILL lead to societal breakdown and the inevitable conclusion of chaos and violence. In short, we will be killing each other in the streets. It has been dismaying to me how few people out there refuse to believe such a scenario, that they continue to encourage the mindless shutdowns and loss of basic civil liberties all in the name of being "safe". The illusion of being safe is the Trojan Horse of our times, unfortunately too many of you will only understand that when it is too late, which it now is. When enough people out there realize that the lives they had before this started have been destroyed by those of you who were willing participants in this sham then the violent retributions will begin. As I have said before, we could have protected the most vulnerable from this disease AND maintained a stable economy but for far too many of you out there that modicum of common sense was unacceptable to you. Shut it all down, you cried with stunning myopia. You are about to realize the fruits of that myopia and then you will scream "How did this all happen" right before they come for you and kill you because they have nothing left, because you enabled the powers to take their lives and their livelihoods away from them with your fearful, trembling groupthink. It's coming, groupthinkers. You have done well. Now sit back and enjoy the fruition of your fears. It could have played out much differently, but you didn't want that. Soon it will be time for the piper that you have created to be paid. Too bad that it will be all of us who will have to pay your debt, a debt that many of us saw coming and did not want. Too late now.

[Admin2]

Here's the bottom line: if we live in fear of this virus for much longer, we will destroy the economic foundation of the greatest nation on earth. The ramifications of that destruction will dwarf the impact of the virus, even if the virus is left unchecked with no mitigation. That's fact. The best solution is to immediately open up this nation, accept the fact that a statistically very small percentage of our population will get the disease and a much smaller percentage of those infected will die (Less than 2 percent of all infections.) That's a hard choice to make, but it is the ONLY choice.

Think about what it means to have 30 million people apply for unemployment. Entire industries, aviation, gaming (casinos), petroleum, are dying and we cannot print enough money to overcome the damage.

Thankfully, there is hope in fighting the virus. Vaccines can potentially be available by the end of the year (Pfizer, others), we are a smarter, more distanced population, and there are improved therapies.

And, anyone who quotes the blankety-blank NY Times loses all credibility with me. I subscribe to the Times, read it every freaking day, and it is full of the most biased, slanted, often factually inaccurate "reporting:" I've seen in my 50 year media-related career. The Times is a disgrace to journalism.

Oh, and whoever called the president an "orange turd. " You are completely lacking in originality, and be glad you have him as president. You know why there's even a chance of a vaccine by the end of the year? Because Trump jawboned the health care companies, the FDA, to make it happen.

Please if anyone feels at risk, stay home. Just don't expect taxpayers to send you another damn 1200 bucks.

Let's get back to work. Now.

I actually called him a shitstain not an orange turd, and I agree with everything else in this post. Not all liberals are starry eyed loons as you would wish them to be.

Sadly like all issues in the US it's become binary and the people who are still pushing the lockdowns refuse to process 2nd and 3rd order effects.

It may be too late, I doubt a V shaped recovery is possible. Demand is being systematically destroyed in the US.

I think the impending global recession is going to kill orders of magnitude more people than the rona ever would have.