The Massholes

[Fisherman61]

Well that wasn't very nice. And I have to disagree wholeheartedly.

I am also going to go on a limb here and point out that you probably.

Never even met Allie because if you truly had, you'd know she has a.

Strict policy of only meeting in her own vehicle because it's more roomy.

And tinted.

And I have seen her a few times when I travel to the Cape and.

My experience was always quite sensual and I left very satisfied.

There was nothing but a firm set of perky B cups and a very nice bum.

To squeeze which you can also see from the pictures posted.

As I always say YMMV but I always put my opinion in when I think..

Is there a reason why all our posts from the weekend were moved to a different folder? Does a little banter and opinionative conversation constitute a Masshole LOL. Alas, I shall will wave my Masshole flag proudly.

It was getting a little warm. Sometimes I move conversations here when they have outlived their usefulness on the review thread.

A2

[Admin2]

You're taking a real risk if you are making that $ offer on the seeking website. They are under HUGE pressure b / c of FOSTA to keep pay for play off the site. I do know of people who got banned for doing it, and your membership $ goes too if that happens. Take the talk off the site to text. Also, just my preference, if you want to treat them like cheap escorts, don't do it on seeking. I have real arrangements w / real SBs I meet on the site, I don't have any place to go if it goes down. As long as it retains credibility as a dating site, I'm happy. If it becomes just the next backpage, well, you're fine but I am hosed.

I don't know where you guys get this idea that "arrangements" aren't commercial sex. They know what's coming, that's why they went to auto rebill and are booting guys right and left in order to make them create new accounts and pay again.

"Seeking" is the new backpage, if it wasn't those "real SB's" wouldn't be a few and you would be the ONLY guy they were seeing.

They are hookers, you are a john end of story.

A2.

[OlGary]

You are fucking Stupid, seek fucking Help dude, seriously. At least I make sense in my messages, you on the other hand, you're talking endless nonsense jibberish. I just quickly browsed and can't believe how dumb you sound and wonder if you even took a breather instead of going on impulse and submitted this rant. I didn't even bother reading this diatribe bullshit, you lost me at the first go.

One can assume that literature was not something you excel in, in school. Talk about Mama and economics, how about Your Momma needed to get you mental help early when you were sucking on her filthy cum stained nipples so you wouldn't turn out to be this degenerate, deranged retarded sounded lunatic that you just displayed. Condoms must've been bad when you were born. Its unfortunate we are suffering the consequences of your stupidity in existence.

Fucker took 3 weeks for a god dam rebuttal only to make a come back and make no God dam sense and sound like a complete fucking idiot. With your "Twenty I's". "I, I, I, I'm this, I'm that. ", like you're some kind of royalty when reality is you're nothing but a degenerate prick horny fucking loser paying for his fix just like everybody else. You mumbling, jibberish, retarded, Stuttering fuck you.

You sound so angry and butt hurt, Too fucking bad. You opened up on me so don't be crying when I clap back. Keep talking shit and you're going to get it in kind, I'm not going to be intimidated by the likes of you on here who likes to talk down on mongers because you think you're special, FUCK YOU, YOU AIN'T SHIT.

You're foaming when talking out the both sides of your mouth. Like I told you before, I will tell you again, take the Dick out your mouth, stick it up your ass and GO FUCK YOURSELF.

Fucking BPNinja, what's that stand for, "Btch Pussy", LOL, how laughable. Fucking fake ass Storm Shadow wannabe fucking idiot.

That's hilarious how Negsiro is talking about someone not excelling at literature in school. I bet he doesn't even have a high school diploma.

[Grogrin]

You are fucking Stupid, seek fucking Help dude, seriously. At least I make sense in my messages, you on the other hand, you're talking endless nonsense jibberish. I just quickly browsed and can't believe how dumb you sound and wonder if you even took a breather instead of going on impulse and submitted this rant. I didn't even bother reading this diatribe bullshit, you lost me at the first go.

One can assume that literature was not something you excel in, in school. Talk about Mama and economics, how about Your Momma needed to get you mental help early when you were sucking on her filthy cum stained nipples so you wouldn't turn out to be this degenerate, deranged retarded sounded lunatic that you just displayed. Condoms must've been bad when you were born. Its unfortunate we are suffering the consequences of your stupidity in existence.

Fucker took 3 weeks for a god dam rebuttal only to make a come back and make no God dam sense and sound like a complete fucking idiot. With your "Twenty I's". "I, I, I, I'm this, I'm that. ", like you're some kind of royalty when reality is you're nothing but a degenerate prick horny fucking loser paying for his fix just like everybody else. You mumbling, jibberish, retarded, Stuttering fuck you.

You sound so angry and butt hurt, Too fucking bad. You opened up on me so don't be crying when I clap back. Keep talking shit and you're going to get it in kind, I'm not going to be intimidated by the likes of you on here who likes to talk down on mongers because you think you're special, FUCK YOU, YOU AIN'T SHIT.

You're foaming when talking out the both sides of your mouth. Like I told you before, I will tell you again, take the Dick out your mouth, stick it up your ass and GO FUCK YOURSELF.

Fucking BPNinja, what's that stand for, "Btch Pussy", LOL, how laughable. Fucking fake ass Storm Shadow wannabe fucking idiot.

Predictability and Idiocy walk hand in hand. Should I even begin dissecting this or your other piles of shit?

At what point did I say there is an issue with paying $20? Read my fucking posts, $20 isn't the real issue here...........

Twenty I's, because what I (Capital I) want to do is what fucking matters and I will pay what I want to pay irrespective of your stupid $20/ inflation / whatever bullshit. I guarantee you many others follow the same policy. Willingness to pay!

blah blah blah blah blah......and more blah blah.

[FeelsSoNice]

I think you may be over analyzing and overreacting to Grogrin's stance regarding overpaying these hoes, Mr. Ninja. It's pretty simple and basic. However Grogrin does use too much words and paragraphs to relay what he is saying when really all it is is this, and I do agree with it and also do it myself. Try, as much as you can, when dealing with these really low-level, drug addicted hoes, like the Newmarket and BHA SW's, specificallly, to get a bargain deal of a BJ, at or around 20 dollars, simply because it is the most logical, sensible thing to do, and really all it is worth for what this group of girls have to offer, as well as their hideous looks and other cleanllness / smell / disease issues they deal with. You just want a fast nut and not friends, should be the goal, so while at it, try to achieve that as cheaply as possible, and if most guys follow that, then the price will stay around that amount for years to come.

Stability in the market for these specific group of hoes will come around if we are all consistent. And it has, pretty much, because I've been paying 20-30 for over twenty years now. Also, there is no need to care about them or their situation, or try to befriend them. Simple pleasantness and not much more, is all is required. Most have been their own worst enemies and brought on most or all of their problems so that is their cross to bear. Don't get tricked into guiltiness, you aren't. Also, they can say no and not get in your ride if you say you only want to pay 20 or so, but the overwhelming percentage of them will still get in and accept it, so why would anyone ever pay more, especially much more? There is no need to and it is just common sense.

And that 20 to 25 will still get them some food, cigs, and drugs if they manage it well, and also who is stopping them from working longer and harder, suck 5, 6 or even more dicks a day, and earn more money, I mean, shit, they can make more than us on certain busy days if they put in the effort and persistence, but that motivation will have to come from them, and some aren't too motivated after that first date. I would advise all these hoes to work harder, do more and be more consistent and slowly but surely life will be better for them. Any of us non SW's, try to do this in our real lives, why shouldn't they? As they rise in life, they can charge more. That is my 2 cents, FSN out.

[BPNinja]

Predictability and Idiocy walk hand in hand. Should I even begin dissecting this or your other piles of shit?

At what point did I say there is an issue with paying $20? Read my fucking posts, $20 isn't the real issue here, it's your insistence that we can somehow magically control inflation and become some kind of mongering cartel that keeps prices low. This isn't fucking OPEC, and you clearly aren't a genius! My point (I would highlight it in red if I could so you understand) is that people in life generally pay whatever they are willing to pay and perceive value differently. I pay $20, I pay $30, I pay $40, I pay $50. You get the point. Actually, maybe not because you somehow can't seem to get past your fixation on $20 (or whatever number) being 'the' price. Do you want me to come on posts thanking everyone who only paid $20 because they did me such a favor and staved off inflation? Captain Inflation, the defender of the weak. You and your merry band of men are single-handedly saving us from paying 'too much'. Are you the Lord of price and who appointed you? Maybe you should create an app that everybody can use to contact you when they go see a hoe. When they get there, they take a picture, describe the girl, the circumstances, her menu and then ask you what the 'right' price is. Let me take your idiotic logic further. How many mongers do we need to say they paid a certain price for it to be 'the' price? If more mongers are paying $30 than $20 for your $20 hoe, when do we say $30 is 'the' price? How do we establish how much everybody paid? Does USASG contain a listing of every transaction for every hoe and every monger? Did I lose your dumb ass with these questions? When you sat there and blurted some shit, had you actually thought anything through? To me, you are the embodiment of a fool.

Maybe I can try and be a little more clear for you: Sometimes, I negotiate and sometimes, I don't. Sometimes, I don't want to pay a lot and sometimes, I don't give a fuck. Sometimes, I want a SW, sometimes I want a HE and sometimes, I want escort pussy. Sometimes I'm broke so I just have a wank.

Multiply the (capital) I's in that last paragraph by 2 and, just in case your stupid ass forgot mathematics, it adds up to your favorite number - 20. (You currently seem so fixated on that number, I was starting to wonder if you have any other numbers lurking in that empty space you call a brain.).

Twenty I's, because what I (Capital I) want to do is what fucking matters and I will pay what I want to pay irrespective of your stupid $20/ inflation / whatever bullshit. I guarantee you many others follow the same policy. Willingness to pay!

If you want to keep paying $20 - go ahead. If another monger wants to pay $30, let him go ahead. When I go see her and I want to pay $20 and she says it's on offer for $30 'because some other monger ruined it for me', I decide whether I'm willing to pay $30 and if not I say thanks and goodbye, or see if she's willing to receive $20. If enough people are willing to pay $30, that becomes the price. If not, she has a rough few days and goes back to $20. I don't come on here and start berating folks for 'raising prices' because their willingness to pay was higher than mine and the market price shifted.

And before I sign off, Economics 101: No agreement = No cartel. If you are dumb enough to think that you can get agreement from ALL mongers (yes, for a cartel to work, it has to be everybody), I'm not sure there are any institutions on earth that exist to fix your kind of stupid. Who is to stop anyone paying $200 for a $40 hoe? It isn't rational to do that by any means, but the point I am trying to make is that people will pay what they want, for whatever reason they want. All you can do is say what you paid, and leave the rest to them and the market. From my perspective, the 'strategy' here is simple. Write reviews, post your pictures, tell us what you paid (negotiated / whatever), ask questions, make connections / swaps and offer other generally positive contribution. Quit with this 'Lord Price' bullshit.

Or maybe as you suggested, you and your band of friends can go start your own group somewhere and share info on $20 (or whatever the 'right price' is) experiences. I'd be happy to spend $20 to not have you bore us with your inflation nonsense. Actually, maybe I'd pay $50 - is that too much? If you setup a gofundme to start your 'price busters' group, my $50 is a guaranteed contribution. And while you and your merry men are off sharing info on 'right priced' hoes, the rest of the world will keep paying what they want, the market price will be established, and your 'right priced' hoes will realize they can make more money, even if their trusted group of 'pay the right price clients' don't budge. Basically, economics will do what it has done since the beginning of time and Grogrin won't be able to do shit about it. It isn't me or other 'defenders / save-a-hoes / gullibles / whatever-term-you-think-is-appropriate' that you are fighting, it's fucking economics, and if you think you can win, well, I think I already said there aren't any institutions for your kind of STUPID.

This coming from the hypocrite Dick Head Numbnut who is enjoying the same skunks everybody is dipping into for $2 bills. In another thing with these Dumb Asses I forgot to point out, whenever you mentioned about negotiating or getting a SW or provider on the cheap, they somehow want you to believe that the Hoe is filthier then the ones they run into. And its the same fucking Hoes that we're all fucking but just to make themselves feel better, like this Idiot BPNinja here, they downgrade your session, chic or strategy so to feel superior. I get it, it's a worthless ego confidence booster to help guys like you feel important when in reality, YOU AIN'T SHIT BUT JUST ANOTHER DEGENERATE PRICK HORNY LOSER LIKE EVERYBODY.

Go fuck yourself with pompus attitude that ain't worth shit. I know Betsy, you had her for a lousy $20 didn't you, so what the fuck does that make you. You fucking hypocrite Imbecile.

[Spill]

It's an american thing, and maybe a Russian oligarch thing. There are men, generally very insecure men, who think because they paid more they are better or the girl will like them more.

It never made any sense to me because generally speaking there is an inverse relationship between price and service. Yet there are sad and pathetic men who walk into the shoe store and say "can I please pay 200 dollars for those shoes you have marked at 80?

Why worry about the people that pay too much if there are still plenty around at reasonable prices. That was my point.

[NewOld]

I absolutely LOVE losers that move shit like this to massholes. Facts hurt sometimes. Deal with it pathetic one.

I've fucked a couple for free after establishing a little rapore. 6'2 and built helps. Tough though when girls move around and you don't get to do this as often as you like when you're married.

It doesn't have as much to do with charm or looks as you might believe. Some of these girls are just stone walls. Some just want to get banged. Kinda like all girls.

[NewOld]

I've fucked a couple for free after establishing a little rapore. 6'2 and built helps. Tough though when girls move around and you don't get to do this as often as you like when you're married.

It doesn't have as much to do with charm or looks as you might believe. Some of these girls are just stone walls. Some just want to get banged. Kinda like all girls.

Some of these providers know the forever desperate and weak Gullibles, even with money, can be sucked to almost anything.

I've read numerous reviews on here where Gullibles will talk about a provider popping out the tits is cause for them to pay more. I shake my head at that shit that you're allowing this inflation at a simple peek. Some of you guys have no charm whatsoever. At. 80 thatd be full service for me, no freakin way I'm going to drop another. 40 at a silly peak of a nipple. I had one provider who used to give me a total complete GFE experienced, everything minus FS for. 60. It got to the point where it wasnt even massage anymore. The minute I come in she takes cash and goes out for me to undress. I sit upright on the table. She comes in and plants herself right between my legs and puts her arms around my neck and lets me go to work on that body. I'd take my sweet time too. I'd unzip her pants and slowly rub her ass, lick tits, kiss her by the neck and lick her then slowly finger kitty. Then take the whole pants and panties off put my cock between her crotch and stroke it between her legs. Then turn her around and do the same and this time able to grab the tities from behind. I remember watching her reaction from the mirror it made her horny with her head tilted back and eyes close while I'm enjoying her sweet body in whatever ways. At times if I felt like it I'd ask her to suck me off and shed gladly oblige. Shed go take a towel, soak it with water and swipe it on my cock so she can get a clean suck. And I'd get on the table and watch her give me a slow sucking with her little lips completely full with my big cock in her mouth.

[JimXuper90]

But my point is if some girl that I've seen in the past or regularly at a certain rate agreed upon suddenly changes the cost and tries to go up on me, that is a huge turn off. That is then someone I say goodbye to. Talk about terribly poor customer service and customer retention practices.

There were two possible outcomes in such case and I have experienced them all.

1) she will tell you her price is increased. You eat up the cost or you drop her.

2) She won't respond to your text as much as it should be. She's dropping you since she's in demand.

And if you expect a good customer service from most of these girls. You are kidding yourself.

[Admin2]

Well, if there are "tons of non pro college girls and single moms who will do bjs for 50 or 60 and are not addicted and very cute" then I guess those that pay 100 do not "ruin it for everyone else".

It's an american thing, and maybe a Russian oligarch thing. There are men, generally very insecure men, who think because they paid more they are better or the girl will like them more.

It never made any sense to me because generally speaking there is an inverse relationship between price and service. Yet there are sad and pathetic men who walk into the shoe store and say "can I please pay 200 dollars for those shoes you have marked at 80?

[Grogrin]

Some of these providers know the forever desperate and weak Gullibles, even with money, can be sucked to almost anything.

I've read numerous reviews on here where Gullibles will talk about a provider popping out the tits is cause for them to pay more. I shake my head at that shit that you're allowing this inflation at a simple peek. Some of you guys have no charm whatsoever. At. 80 thatd be full service for me, no freakin way I'm going to drop another. 40 at a silly peak of a nipple. I had one provider who used to give me a total complete GFE experienced, everything minus FS for. 60. It got to the point where it wasnt even massage anymore. The minute I come in she takes cash and goes out for me to undress. I sit upright on the table. She comes in and plants herself right between my legs and puts her arms around my neck and lets me go to work on that body. I'd take my sweet time too. I'd unzip her pants and slowly rub her ass, lick tits, kiss her by the neck and lick her then slowly finger kitty. Then take the whole pants and panties off put my cock between her crotch and stroke it between her legs. Then turn her around and do the same and this time able to grab the tities from behind. I remember watching her reaction from the mirror it made her horny with her head tilted back and eyes close while I'm enjoying her sweet body in whatever ways. At times if I felt like it I'd ask her to suck me off and shed gladly oblige. Shed go take a towel, soak it with water and swipe it on my cock so she can get a clean suck. And I'd get on the table and watch her give me a slow sucking with her little lips completely full with my big cock in her mouth. When I was ready to finish I'd get her in a missionary or doggy and unload on her ass or puss. It was always like that in my visit. I barely got a massage. Sometimes I'd finish early and shed tell me to stay for a bit so she can massage me, I guess she liked the convo a bit because we used to get some laughs talking. Mind you she struggled a whole lot with her english and I didn't give a fuck all that mumbo jumbo she was saying. I just said yes or no and talked back and whatever. I surely miss her. She mustve been 50 that little old lady but had a sweet teenage body and decent face that could pass for her late 30's early 40. These asian women have a fountain of youth for sure.

I always imagined what mongers would have paid for all that I got. It used to always be 100, flat. 40 fir half hour and the 60 for tips. Money well spent given this was an AMP. Others would have spent a boatload on it. I've seen some mongers reviewed her but only mentioned simple HJ finish but never thought she was willing to do more. I never mentioned her either so they wouldn't fuck it up but just read the reviews and saw no one was taking advantage of it.

So I tip my hat of to you that you stood your ground and not over tip and cause inflation for a silly titie coming out. This is the stuff they know Gullibles are dumb about and can sucker them into paying unecessary amount when it should come with the service at times if one is a repeat customer. If theyre willing to pay for top off imagine how much theyd drop if she took of her pants and just let them see her pretty cotton flowered pants, the gullibles would go nuts.

I can say I've very much appreciated the tips on here and HAVE changed my habits. If a girl wants 80 for tits out, I typically just refuse and stick with the 40 ending.

[AudiAndrew78]

I kind of understand both sides in this discussion. It's hard to discuss what's the right thing to do when people have different depth of their wallet. People who would pay $100 just for a BJ wouldn't be able to convince the guys that only pay $40 for a BJ that this girl is a must-see. GPS girls will have their target customers, we just choose to not engage with them. The only conflict here is a girl who used to see me for $40 BJ now asks for $100. I have to stop seeing her in that case.

Sometimes girls will take a much lower rate than they typically ask for at a time of desperation or circumstance, but they should stay at that rate for you though. Whatever you both agree on from day one should stay that way. It's all subjective of course, hey, girls have the right to ask for whatever they want for their work. But my point is if some girl that I've seen in the past or regularly at a certain rate agreed upon suddenly changes the cost and tries to go up on me, that is a huge turn off. That is then someone I say goodbye to. Talk about terribly poor customer service and customer retention practices.

[NewOld]

I can say I've very much appreciated the tips on here and HAVE changed my habits. If a girl wants 80 for tits out, I typically just refuse and stick with the 40 ending.

OK, let's ignore the argument for a minute on whether or not guys paying "too much" affects prices. Does anyone think pleading with the users of theses boards is going to change anyone's spending habits? Really? Do you think even a minority of the users here will band together enough to affect prices? This pricing thread comes and goes as often as the "talent" you seek on the street. This first time I heard someone put out the idea of asking everyone to help keep prices low was on another board for big dogs in 2001. It didn't work then either.

BTW, I do not use the street so I have no skin in this game (so to speak LOL).

[Grogrin]

As as a big advocate for keeping prices low and I don't know if anyone puts that practice to use more then I do.

The problem we're facing with the Champions, Defenders and Captain Save a Hoe Gullibles is that they really ruin everything. They are everything from repeated offenders, Inflators, Gullible Idiots, Selfish pricks to down right flip flopping Hypocrites.

If a monger was to post that he met a provider and she gave a good service blow job for $40 bills, the inflator, being the skunk that he is, making a stink wherever he goes, he will look at that review and run to her and pay her possibly more, 60,70 to even 80. He will then come back on the board and tell you he, too, went to see that provider and thought she treated him nice and he wanted to be generous and gave her 40 plus a $20 tips or paid her 80. And you're asking him, why, why did you do that? Why did you have to go and drive up the price and give her that much and now empowering her to think that this is going to be the norm. You just ruin it for the guy that was getting his fix at the $40 bills price because next time he goes in there, there's a good chance she's going to hassle him for more. This shit has happened over again and again, and again. It is this selfish act by these Inflators in denial that they can't seem to grasp. They gloat and rave about their overspending like they are God's gift to these women when in reality, they ain't shit but the biggest degenerate desperate fucks with worthless egos that needs to glorify their actions to make themselves feel good and superior. When reality is, they are inferior. Stop acting you really have money like that. You slave 9-5 everyday just like everybody else.

What's even worse, most of the time, they don't even stay with the providers they inflate the prices with and keep them as their main regular, no, that'd be too costly for them. What they keep doing is, finding posts of Mongers with providers or chics with low prices and they go after them and causes the damage by driving up the price paying them more. To add more insult to injury, some of them will even post how a provider that they were paying too much on, has now become too expansive for them so they're looking for one of the cheap. And this is exactly why some of us on the other side of this argument have been saying, why cause the inflation and shoot yourself in the foot only to complain later that she is charging too much. Why can't you stop driving up the price so you, too, can have more bang for the buck and enjoy it for a while. What's the hurry?. What's with the tips, paying extra just because she called you handsome or make some silly convo. Are you that fucking desperate that any little thing they do or say is reason for you to give more money and gloat about it. Yeah we are all degenerates who are paying for pussy but there is a valid reason for that behavior. Some of us don't want to deal with the emotional baggage of these chics nowadays. If you can get the stupid shit on a set price then fuck it, cut all that run around short and lets get it to it. That is the whole purpose anyways when we try to take them out to eat, pay to go out, shopping, paying their bills ect. You may be doing all that and she's stringing you along while fucking another guy and not give you shit yet. Women are not loyal or trusworthy. Most of us would love to drill many we see on the streets, this hobby has made this surreal fantasy a possibility to no end. It now gives us some sort of power, we have the upper hand or at least level the playing field. But some of you Gullibles are so god dam useless and worthless, you can't even make that shit work for you and taking it away from us and are being arrogantly stupid and selfish.

You belittle the guy that says his budget is strict and he'd like get more bang for the buck by acting all macho, saying you can pay more and willing to pay more. For some reason, you seem to always be on the side of defending the provider, why? She doesn't care and give a fuck about you but the money. Stop pleading for the providers, SWs or escorts like you owe them something or that they are suffering, they ain't suffering shit. When they're not with your sorry ass, they're traveling the world or going to Vegas and spending a boat load of that cash, out shopping, driving luxurious cars. Why is it that providers, SWs or Escorts almost think on the same level in this business. Their ideological thinking to work together to make money stays the same. Do you think they would lower the price for any of us to get repeated business, they would Shun or call that chic out, like what the fuck are you doing giving out blow jobs for $10 or FS for $15 on Street level and maybe $30 BJ and $40/50 on AMP or Escort level. Imagine if they were doing that, the girls would freak out, like why are you lowering the price to these Jons making it so cheap and put us at a disadvantage. For us its the opposite, why are you driving the price. If a girl is known to get $40 fo Blow, why give her 60 or 80 and ruin it for the next man. And if FS was 80, why are you dropping 120 to 160.

Its like some of you don't know the price of pussy. We always say if a brand new car comes out of the lot, it just lost 50% of its value then how come the same philosophy apply here. How do you keep paying more for a chic that's getting banged repeatedly? Its like some of you don't know the value of a beat up pussy. When I was deep in the AMP game about 2 years ago, I had providers I was getting on the dirt cheap price whereas I saw reviews of guys paying astronomical prices. I've bumped into a couple of mongers coming out of AMPs and I can see clearly why some over pay. Maybe younger guys get away with stuff but if you have money I can't see why you can't have some power to make it work in your favor. Some of us who likes prices to stay standards are the only ones who are victims of the Gullible Idiot Inflators because don't step on their foot. We're not going to try to outbid you.

I say we Shun these repeated offenders on here. There's got to be a way or something we can think of to form a group where those that like to pay standard price go away from those that likes to inflate. Posting reviews on here, the selfish pricks will find the lead and ruin it like they always do. There's no talking to these idiots anymore, no getting through them. Best thing to do is Shun them and let them be. If there's a way we can for a different group and share our intel and not involved them, itd be ideal. More wishful thinking then reality but if there's a will there's a way. Its time we start calling them out.